A4/S4 engine comparo

[Obsessed]

Obviously, out of the box, the 4.2 liter will take a 2.7 turbo, but we all know the potential of the 2.7.

Every now and then I think "Should I have gone with an A4 with the 2.7 and used the extra money to modify, or was I better off with the 4.2?".

So, I am thinking of things why or why not...

1. 4.2 slightly modified will be less likely to void warranty.
2. V8 sound
3. No lag from turbo
4. S4 has better suspension

1. 2.7 turbo better gas mileage
2. Lots of mods
3. Money spent on mods goes further
4. Lower insurance
5. Programmer enables alot more drastic changes

So, how much money does one have to spend on the 2.7 to match the 4.2's acceleration?

[mksap11]

The A4 has a 2.0T engine, not the 2.7T one

[Obsessed]

The A4 has a 2.0T engine, not the 2.7T one

Oh, I guess I was looking at a used S4. I saw it looking out of the dealership window and thought someone mentioned it was an A4.

Well, what needs to be done to the 2.7 anyway?

I assume it takes alot of work to get the 2.0 there.

[booch]

it doesn't take as much as you think to get the 2.0T into stock 4.2 "territory", but i think in terms of ease of speed the 2.7T takes both. i have heard however it takes a small army of mechanics to keep one running.

4.2 is great out of the box and the 2.0T takes to mods well. that said, if i had the extra $$ i would have gotten a B7S4

[kovachian]

If I were in your shoes I'd toss all doubts in the trash and stick with the 4.2. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned I dunno, but no small displacement hand grenade can ever take the place of a throaty V8 even if it's only marginally faster in stock form. In addition, once APR and/or VF puts a 4.2 blower on to the market I think 4.2 owners will be even more glad they chose the engine that they did.

[Obsessed]

I will never use FI on here though. Too risky with the warranty voided. I am trying to do things that can easily be put back to stock if I need service.

[Scott Evil]

After 18 months with a B6 S4, I am not a bit sad to see it go. Great motor, but it became a bore to drive. I had a B5 S4 for six years and a bit more than 90,000 miles. I enjoyed every mile I drove it. I chipped it after a year and had zero turbo problems. I wish I had kept that car instead of getting the B6. The shitty DBW was bothersome enough itself. Nearly 4000 pounds would settle on the outside front wheel/tire in every turn, understeer never felt so annoying.

My best description of the B6 S4 is, imagine driving an AWD Lexus with a manual tranny. It was too refined. The mileage sucked, maybe 14 in the city. If driving the car was a lot of fun, I would not have cared.

My 2.0T is stock right now, but is still more fun to drive. It is not a torque monster in every gear, but I learned downshifting is fun again.

[Tgr_Clw]

A B5 S4 only needs a chip ($700 or so) to walk a B6/B7 S4.

2.7T >>>>>> 4.2

[AudiA4_20T]

just wait till the APR Stg3+ comes for the 2.0T 350whp on pump sounds so nice

[enigma1406]

If all a car is to you is an engine, then get a B5 S4. If there's more to it for you then stick with the B6/B7 S4. You could probably even get a B6 A4 and B5 S4 for the price of a B7 S4.

[AAAA]

just wait till the APR Stg3+ comes for the 2.0T 350whp on pump sounds so nice

its not going to be as great as everyone thinks. we're going to have a lot of drivetrain loss (those of us that are quattro) compared to the transverse folks. I see ours barely over 300whp mark. we have almost 25% drivetrain loss. so 400 crank is already 300awhp for us. oh well. i'm still getting it.

[gyroscope]

The small turbo Ko3 that VAG used in the A4 is seriously underpowered for a car that weighs close to 3700 pounds. Even with Revo stage 1 it still feels like a slug comapred to my N/A 16v Saab. I'm supposing that this is the quattro drive trane loss. I think I would lean more towards a used E46 M3 over an S4, but thats just me. The B7 does lack some sense of being attached the road and the car. I think it's related to the evolution automobiles in general though.

[barkerd427]

I could never give up my quattro after having it in this A4. It may consume a good deal of horsepower and torque, but it makes up for it in grip. You could never do as much in a rear or front wheel drive vehicle as this. Plus on a street course you could blow away just about any comparable front or rear wheel car. Am I right on this guys or what?

[rnp614]

I could never give up my quattro after having it in this A4. It may consume a good deal of horsepower and torque, but it makes up for it in grip. You could never do as much in a rear or front wheel drive vehicle as this. Plus on a street course you could blow away just about any comparable front or rear wheel car. Am I right on this guys or what?

Agreed. I've found myself on unfamiliar off-ramps pushing it a bit harder than I should've but I always felt assured that the Quattro would allow me to stick my course and not spin into a median. I LOVE this about my car. I can take it to the limit any day of the week in almost any condition and still stick the road better than almost anything else out there without losing it.

[Obsessed]

I could never give up my quattro after having it in this A4. It may consume a good deal of horsepower and torque, but it makes up for it in grip. You could never do as much in a rear or front wheel drive vehicle as this. Plus on a street course you could blow away just about any comparable front or rear wheel car. Am I right on this guys or what?

If you are refering to straight line accleration, you are not totally right. RWD loses alot less through drivetrain and all it needs to traction to hook up. DRs with the right size wheel will solve this problem.

I agree that for the most part, AWD will out acclerate from a dig, but rolling will put a damper on things. Very few times have I ever been able to actually race from a dig on the street, so that extra 10% power I could have had would have given me quite an edge.

AWD is more than just about straight line though. But if that's all you are worried about, RWD would be the most efficient for power.

[Obsessed]

A B5 S4 only needs a chip ($700 or so) to walk a B6/B7 S4.


Huh? How much power are you getting from a chip, 70hp? There is a 1/2 a second difference in 0-60 and almost 1 second 1/4 mile difference between the B7 and B5 stock. It would take a bit more than that to "walk" a B7 S4.

[barkerd427]

I agree with the straight line issue, but I was refering to a real street course. A race track that has all of the tight turns. It is also great when racing up the mountain road near me that they hold races on.

[Obsessed]

I agree with the straight line issue, but I was refering to a real street course. A race track that has all of the tight turns. It is also great when racing up the mountain road near me that they hold races on.

There alot of things to consider. If you watch racing, especially when stock cars are used, some can handle turns very well, but lack over all power and accleration while others could be alot of power and lack the same handleing. Which would win? Well, whoever took advantage of their potential the most and possibly the better driver. For instance, a Z06 vette is 505hp and RWD. If you watch some of the really good drivers race them, they can actually blow away an STi and Evo.

In the world of road track racing, alot of cars are RWD, others are AWD. It typically comes down to the better driver, all other things equal.

Ever see Top Gear's wall of times? They have test driven hundreds of cars on a certain track and posted the top 20 cars on that list and update it regularly. I am quite sure alot of them are RWD.

[rnp614]

There alot of things to consider. If you watch racing, especially when stock cars are used, some can handle turns very well, but lack over all power and accleration while others could be alot of power and lack the same handleing. Which would win? Well, whoever took advantage of their potential the most and possibly the better driver. For instance, a Z06 vette is 505hp and RWD. If you watch some of the really good drivers race them, they can actually blow away an STi and Evo.

In the world of road track racing, alot of cars are RWD, others are AWD. It typically comes down to the better driver, all other things equal.

Ever see Top Gear's wall of times? They have test driven hundreds of cars on a certain track and posted the top 20 cars on that list and update it regularly. I am quite sure alot of them are RWD.

An average driver, however, will have a much better experience with AWD. Less wheel slip will lead to better times and better corners. Getting the power down in a RWD will be tricky without practice...and they need perfect conditions to really excel. As far as whipping around the streets, I can tell you I can push my A4 harder and drive more aggressively than I could my 99 RT/10 Viper. A small patch of gravel on the road and the viper's tail end will want to fly out on you....on a clean course its a completely different story though....

[Obsessed]

An average driver, however, will have a much better experience with AWD. Less wheel slip will lead to better times and better corners. Getting the power down in a RWD will be tricky without practice...and they need perfect conditions to really excel. As far as whipping around the streets, I can tell you I can push my A4 harder and drive more aggressively than I could my 99 RT/10 Viper. A small patch of gravel on the road and the viper's tail end will want to fly out on you....on a clean course its a completely different story though....

I believe the saying goes "It's more fun to go fast in a slow car than it is to go slow in a fast car". lol Not that your car is slow, but it's the same concept.

[rnp614]

I believe the saying goes "It's more fun to go fast in a slow car than it is to go slow in a fast car". lol Not that your car is slow, but it's the same concept.

Its so true. City driving in the Viper is absolutely torture. That animal just wants to be let loose. Unless you're laying into that V10 its just not happy with you. Knowing there is untapped potential is brutal on a car-lover. Its just much more fulfilling to make a car work at its limits....

...either way, I'm interested in seeing how the next S4 works out. I may be on the market again in 2009 or so. [:D]

EDIT: And its okay, I'm not offended by the fact that my A4 is slow--it is...but as long as I can out-corner that V6 Camry next to me ;). Its good that driving in New Orleans day to day requires one to take a number of U-turns. It really lets me use what I have :).

[Obsessed]

It's hard to believe I won't even be considering another car until 2010, maybe even 2011. Hopefully, by that time, the S4 will have a bi turbo 4.2 liter. [:D]

[rnp614]

It's hard to believe I won't even be considering another car until 2010, maybe even 2011. Hopefully, by that time, the S4 will have a bi turbo 4.2 liter. :D

Haha I understand that feeling. I'm looking at either a 2 or 4 year interval on this car purchase depending on a variety of factors.

[AudiA4_20T]

its not going to be as great as everyone thinks. we're going to have a lot of drivetrain loss (those of us that are quattro) compared to the transverse folks. I see ours barely over 300whp mark. we have almost 25% drivetrain loss. so 400 crank is already 300awhp for us. oh well. i'm still getting it.

O yea? Its gonna be the same amount of power as a GT28RS on a 1.8T? Ummm no. Theyre using a 2871R and also have the 2.0T platform. A guy with a B6 gained about 40whp going from 1.8T to a 2.0T and thats without even upgrading the turbo... A bigger turbo and bigger motor will definately not be equal with the B6 Sg3+

[sean1.8t]

just wait till the APR Stg3+ comes for the 2.0T 350whp on pump sounds so nice


yes, but a stage 3 B5 s4 does 400Awhp on pump with a larger powerband. there is just no contest. the B5 S4 is audi's bread and butter

but the old 2.2L inline 5 was a sweat engine too. all forged from the factory is so sick

[sean1.8t]

Huh? How much power are you getting from a chip, 70hp? There is a 1/2 a second difference in 0-60 and almost 1 second 1/4 mile difference between the B7 and B5 stock. It would take a bit more than that to "walk" a B7 S4.

a chip will gain about 60hp and 110ft/lbs of torque. add exhaust and downpipes(stage 2+) and you'll be around 300+Awhp on pump. with a lighter car than the B6 and B7

B5 EASILY walks B6/7's.. then there is stage 3, and you're walking B7 RS4's like nothing

[Obsessed]

a chip will gain about 60hp and 110ft/lbs of torque. add exhaust and downpipes(stage 2+) and you'll be around 300+Awhp on pump. with a lighter car than the B6 and B7



ok, I can see that. Turbos allow exhausts and intake mods to wonder to turbo cars. I don't see the chip being enough to walk a B7, but with those other mods you mentioned, I can see it.

[sean1.8t]

ok, I can see that. Turbos allow exhausts and intake mods to wonder to turbo cars. I don't see the chip being enough to walk a B7, but with those other mods you mentioned, I can see it.

not always. you have to take into effect that the bigger the turbo the better the gain from a larger more free flowing exhaust. the ko3 turbo's on the S4 are very small. and the stock exhaust isn't a huge hinderence for power..

the chip is the biggest gain, then downpipes. an aftermarket exhaust is more just for the aesthetic look and sound

[AAAA]

O yea? Its gonna be the same amount of power as a GT28RS on a 1.8T? Ummm no. Theyre using a 2871R and also have the 2.0T platform. A guy with a B6 gained about 40whp going from 1.8T to a 2.0T and thats without even upgrading the turbo... A bigger turbo and bigger motor will definately not be equal with the B6 Sg3+

show me a QUATTRO b6 1.8T w/ just a stage 3+ on it that dynos 300awhp. the FWD 1.8t's get 300whp almost on the dot w/ stage 3+. So no, the audi Quattro 1.8T's don't get 300whp, and yes, I'm guessing the 2.0t Quattros will be just a little over 300awhp

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/s3b6a4_dynographs.html

from APR's website. the "constant" dyno says 340hp at the CRANK, and the actual dyno in the link above is 266 at the WHEELS. do the math. that's 340 * .215 (21.5% drivetrain loss) = 266awhp.

so the 2.0t would be similar to 400hp at the crank (hopefully) * .215 (21.5% drivetrain loss) = 314awhp

[sean1.8t]

^^^^stop throwing numbers out like you're the first one realize quattro has a larger dtl than 2wd..

but APR hasn't updated their site in a while. they have however updated their software. and 300+Awhp on their stg 3+ kit is easily attainable.

go troll the B6 A4 forums and you'll see

[NyteEscape]

b5 s4 doesnt have much turbo lag, if any. that's the point of having 2 turbos. it has a flat powerband.

basically, a b5 s4 is the best modder audi you can buy if you can afford a b6 or b7 S4.

[davis449]

On the B5 S4 note, all you really have to do to make it reliable, from what I hear, is change the turbos to larger ones. If you have a 2001.5 to 2002 model, they fixed the issues with the stock K03's. It's like preventative maintenance for it.

[AAAA]

^^^^stop throwing numbers out like you're the first one realize quattro has a larger dtl than 2wd..

but APR hasn't updated their site in a while. they have however updated their software. and 300+Awhp on their stg 3+ kit is easily attainable.

go troll the B6 A4 forums and you'll see

not trying to throw numbers out. i was simply trying to show that the fwd numbers that are being thrown around are not what the quattro people are going to see in the stage 3 kit. whatever man. we'll see when it comes out.