Anyone interested in the DSG transmission?

[TJHUB]

I like to watch Test Drive with Tommy Kendal on Speed Channel just to see him beat the crap out of street cars on the track. He seems like a really cool guy and I like the show a lot. This last show was a 30 minute segment on on the VW GTI with DSG. I was interested, so I Tivo'd the show and I have to say I'm impressed with what I saw.

My B5 was a T-28 Tip with Level 10 modified TC and VB. The car was fun to drive because it shifted so fast and hard. Even today we laugh when the car hits 2nd or 3rd. The ONLY thing that was wrong with the car was launching it; it just couldn't. [down]

I now have a manual, and to be honest I wish I didn't. The Audi manuals leave a lot to be desired. I'll live with it for now, but if they bring the DSG transmission to all wheel drive and I'll be looking hard them.

On the show, Tommy stated that the car shifted in 4 hundredths of a second. Impressive. The thing that really caught my attention was the launch control. Both cars sat there on the track with both drivers holding the brake and the throttle "to the floor". The rpm was held at 3,000 and when you release the brake, the clutch engages and off you go. Pretty sweet if you ask me.

I enjoy the driving experience with a manual about 50% of the time. The other 50% I could do without it. I wasn't that informed about the DSG, but it seems the automotive industry is waking up to it with nothing but good comments. I know Tommy's show is promotional only and there really isn't any objectivity, but I'm sure the car performed as stated at a minimum.

Have any of you guys driven a DSG car? A coworker and I are planning on test driving a VW GTI or GLI with DSG in the coming weeks just to check it for ourselves.

Maybe the B8 will have all wheel drive and DSG? If so, I may just be getting one!

[rnp614]

Not to threadjack, but are people really that unhappy with their 6-speed mannys in the B7? Is the general consensus that Audi trannys are terrible?

EDIT: I did watch that SPEED Test Drive episode yesterday and I can say the DSG was somewhat impressive...however I think I'd get annoyed when it shifted for me. I saw the two guys on the show mention that and I had the same experience on my test drive of the DSG. I wanted it to stay in gear and bounce a bit off the limiter as I whipped around a corner but it shifted for me just as I was tapping the damn paddle.

[quattrotman]

Before I bought my A4 I test drove an A3 with DSG...I loved it so much I wanted to buy the car just because of transmission alone but the wife wouldn't allow it because she thought it was too small [=(]
I rant about the DSG all the time because it shifts like a motorcycle. Shifts are super fast and more like a manual than any other auto I've tried. No comparrison to a Tiptronic. But, I will say, nothing beats standard. I don't find the audi manual bad...I just ended up with tip because the wife needed to drive it too sometimes and she's no standard driver [:D]

[TJHUB]

Well for one, I'm not sure anyone needs bounce the 2.0T on the rev limiter. There's no real usable power above ~5,500 rpm anyway. Second, I'll never track the car, so the rev limiter issue is even less.

I can't say that the 6mt is that bad, but I expected more. It's way too notchy feeling and on top of that, I hate the way my 2nd gear feels. Audi needs to learn from the Japanese. They make some VERY nice manuals, but I just can't love a Japanese car like a German car.

[quattshot]

I like to watch Test Drive with Tommy Kendal on Speed Channel just to see him beat the crap out of street cars on the track. He seems like a really cool guy and I like the show a lot. This last show was a 30 minute segment on on the VW GTI with DSG. I was interested, so I Tivo'd the show and I have to say I'm impressed with what I saw.

My B5 was a T-28 Tip with Level 10 modified TC and VB. The car was fun to drive because it shifted so fast and hard. Even today we laugh when the car hits 2nd or 3rd. The ONLY thing that was wrong with the car was launching it; it just couldn't. [down]

I now have a manual, and to be honest I wish I didn't. The Audi manuals leave a lot to be desired. I'll live with it for now, but if they bring the DSG transmission to all wheel drive and I'll be looking hard them.

On the show, Tommy stated that the car shifted in 4 hundredths of a second. Impressive. The thing that really caught my attention was the launch control. Both cars sat there on the track with both drivers holding the brake and the throttle "to the floor". The rpm was held at 3,000 and when you release the brake, the clutch engages and off you go. Pretty sweet if you ask me.

I enjoy the driving experience with a manual about 50% of the time. The other 50% I could do without it. I wasn't that informed about the DSG, but it seems the automotive industry is waking up to it with nothing but good comments. I know Tommy's show is promotional only and there really isn't any objectivity, but I'm sure the car performed as stated at a minimum.

Have any of you guys driven a DSG car? A coworker and I are planning on test driving a VW GTI or GLI with DSG in the coming weeks just to check it for ourselves.

Maybe the B8 will have all wheel drive and DSG? If so, I may just be getting one!

It seems like your unaware that AWD DSG's exist in the Audi world.
Anyhow, YES the DSG is absolutely phenominal. Whats funny is that it can't take massive amounts of torque and Hp. The Lambos, RS4, S6, etc..can't use them. Though I hear Audi is working on it. I also hear that Porsche someday soon will utilize the double clutch DSG system. It is sooo much fun running thru the gears and watching the REVS match like your heel/toe'ing. Its like a motorcycle or video game feeling.

I just drove the new TT this weekend in 2.0 and 3.2 DSG versions and it was a blast! Oh and the TT has launch control as well....EXTREMELY COOL AND EASY!!!

The manual on the B7 feels SOOOO much better then the B5 and B6 versions. It just feels more precise and shorter. Though I STILL HATE the sloppy movement from the soft OEM snub mount.

[rnp614]

Well for one, I'm not sure anyone needs bounce the 2.0T on the rev limiter. There's no real usable power above ~5,500 rpm anyway. Second, I'll never track the car, so the rev limiter issue is even less.

I can't say that the 6mt is that bad, but I expected more. It's way too notchy feeling and on top of that, I hate the way my 2nd gear feels. Audi needs to learn from the Japanese. They make some VERY nice manuals, but I just can't love a Japanese car like a German car.

I agree that theres no need to bounce off the rev limiter in usual driving circumstances, but I find myself staying in lower gears in certain situations just because I KNOW I'm going to want to take off in a heartbeat.

No comment on the Japanese manuals as I dont have extensive experience behind the wheel of any sort of sporty japanese stick.

[rnp614]

It seems like your unaware that AWD DSG's exist in the Audi world.
Anyhow, YES the DSG is absolutely phenominal. Whats funny is that it can't take massive amounts of torque and Hp. The Lambos, RS4, S6, etc..can't use them. Though I hear Audi is working on it. I also hear that Porsche someday soon will utilize the double clutch DSG system. It is sooo much fun running thru the gears and watching the REVS match like your heel/toe'ing. Its like a motorcycle or video game feeling.

I just drove the new TT this weekend in 2.0 and 3.2 DSG versions and it was a blast! Oh and the TT has launch control as well....EXTREMELY COOL AND EASY!!!

The manual on the B7 feels SOOOO much better then the B5 and B6 versions. It just feels more precise and shorter. Though I STILL HATE the sloppy movement from the soft OEM snub mount.

I would definitely say the DSG allows you to maybe be more "competitive" with your driving with much more ease, but the challenge is then lost! Maybe I tend to be a little ADD but if I'm not multitasking I get somewhat bored.

[MBoyd4motion]

I would get an A3 if it there was a 2.0T with Quattro and DSG.

From what I have heard Porsche's version will be on the 2009 Cayman S.

[quattshot]

I agree that theres no need to bounce off the rev limiter in usual driving circumstances, but I find myself staying in lower gears in certain situations just because I KNOW I'm going to want to take off in a heartbeat.

No comment on the Japanese manuals as I dont have extensive experience behind the wheel of any sort of sporty japanese stick.

Honda S2000 is possibly the finest feeling transmission ever in existance.
Here is what it feels and sounds like...................
Click, CLick, CLick, cLick, Click, click.
Did you feel it? Amazing wasn't it?[up]

[rnp614]

Honda S2000 is possibly the finest feeling transmission ever in existance.
Here is what it feels and sounds like...................
Click, CLick, CLick, cLick, Click, click.
Did you feel it? Amazing wasn't it?[up]

I guess I can imagine it? [;)] [:p] [:D]


I guess one of these days I have to get some wheel-time in a S2000 and Miata to see what all the fuss is about.

[quattshot]

You know, anytime I drive a DSG equipted vehicle, I always wonder what it would feel like in a much higher Hp. car! Damn, that will be fun.

[quattshot]

I guess I can imagine it? [;)] [:p] [:D]


I guess one of these days I have to get some wheel-time in a S2000 and Miata to see what all the fuss is about.

Lets put it this way, you can go buy a $1800 used Miata and start racing SCCA tomorrow with some racing slicks. S2000 is much more refined but much more $$$.
Damn I just thread jacked, sorry.

I've owned both and raced in both, its like vanilla & chocolate. Both taste good but totaly different.

[davis449]

I can tell you that the VW DSG isn't chip friendly, at least right now. It doesn't handle the tourque well. I had a friend (highly experienced with VW and European cars in general) blow his 2006 GTI DSG up with just APR cause it couldn't handle the damn near 300 ft./lbs. of torque. And before you shoot holes in my arguement, it was a documented problem that not only he experienced...and yes, he DOES know how to drive a car.

[rnp614]

You know, anytime I drive a DSG equipted vehicle, I always wonder what it would feel like in a much higher Hp. car! Damn, that will be fun.

I think you just got to the crux of why I dont like the DSG in these low powered cars. You start feeling way too disconnected. Because you dont have to worry about keeping 400-500 hp on the road there really isnt enough to keep my interest with a DSG. You're still putting around in a 200 hp weakling (no offense to those who love the aforementioned cars). I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of a Viper and THAT is the kind of car in which I'd consider the DSG type transmission. With all that power, you need as much focus on the braking and steering you can get. In a GTI I just dont see enough intensity to make paddles worth it over losing the fun of a clutch. Just my humble opinion.

[rnp614]

Lets put it this way, you can go buy a $1800 used Miata and start racing SCCA tomorrow with some racing slicks. S2000 is much more refined but much more $$$.
Damn I just thread jacked, sorry.

I've owned both and raced in both, its like vanilla & chocolate. Both taste good but totaly different.

Yeah, this is the feeling I get from reading posts from the last few years. People rave about both these cars and I figure, while they're different from each other, they're the go-to affordable japanese racers.

[CaRJoE0220]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o

That convinced me

[kak39]

Longevity is my issue right now with DSG trans. I'm confortable with the life of my clutch and the cost to replace it, but has anyone looked into cost for replacing or fixing DSG transmission? and is the life-span that of a normal auto trans?

Also, I don't think i can give up my 6-speed it's just way way too fun...DSG is for the lazy...i dont' care about your .0005 second shifts. It just doesn't sound fun to drive.

[quattshot]

I think you just got to the crux of why I dont like the DSG in these low powered cars. You start feeling way too disconnected. Because you dont have to worry about keeping 400-500 hp on the road there really isnt enough to keep my interested with a DSG. You're still putting around in a 200 hp weakling (no offense to those who love the aforementioned cars). I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of a Viper and THAT is the kind of car in which I'd consider the DSG type transmission. With all that power, you need as much focus on the braking and steering you can get. In a GTI I just dont see enough intensity to make paddles worth it over losing the fun of a clutch. Just my humble opinion.

Not a bad argument. Hmm...?
Though it is fun downshifting LATE into a corner with DSG and not having to worry about throwing the car off balance or screwing up the shift.
Its definitely a fun maketing tool aimed towards sporty driving but I also see it as a test bed for whats to come....
There will always be fans of regular manual transmission's out there.
There's nothing like your feet dancing on the pedals back and forth from brake, clutch, to gas. IT is like a form of dancing in a way and its fun.

[Re5pectThe_Cuz]

Bugatti Veyron anyone?

[quattshot]

Bugatti Veyron anyone?

Paddles yes, DSG no.
Same as old RS6, current Lambos, etc.........

[A4_cabrio]

Veyron HP more than 1000
Transmission of choice = 7 speed DSG

It wont be long until the technology will trickle down into the less expensive cars.

[quattrotman]

Also, I don't think i can give up my 6-speed it's just way way too fun...DSG is for the lazy...i dont' care about your .0005 second shifts. It just doesn't sound fun to drive.

I would normally agree but have you tried the DSG?...it's a hoot! [drive]

[kak39]

I would normally agree but have you tried the DSG?...it's a hoot! [drive]

Ha. Of course not...that's like Luke Skywalker saying:

"you know what....i'll try the dark side, just to see how it is."

[quattshot]

Veyron HP more than 1000
Transmission of choice = 7 speed DSG

It wont be long until the technology will trickle down into the less expensive cars.


Your right.....
Rumor Mill, GOOD STUFF...........

http://www.autospies.com/news/Rumour-Mill-BMW-Ditching-SMG-to-Follow-VW-s-Leading-Edge-8962/

The following was translated from German....
VW group [Treatments]Up to now the VW group is the single vehicle manufacturer, the DSG for standard cars offers, and it is mentioned in the specialist publications for the development extremely positively.

Gives a share in the development approx. from 2000 till 2005 were and for the production responsibly are among other things credit warners (multiple disk clutches and Hydraulics) and Temic (transmission control). The DSG is assembled in the VW-transmission work in Kassel where for the production plants 150 million Euros were invested and up to 1000 transmissions during the day can be manufactured.

Available vehicles of the VW group with DSG:

VW gulf(golf) R32 (the first model with DSG)
Audi TT
VW Touran
VW gulf(golf)
Audi A3
VW trade wind
VW Jetta
VW Eos
Seat Altea
Seat Leon
Seat Toledo
Skoda Octavia
Bugatti Veyron (7way DSG along before the central engine)

Peculiarities:

Wet-running clutches on account of the torque high with 320 Nm of the VW gulf(golf) the R32 for which it was developed first. { Of torque}
TipTronic (two switch seesaws behind the steering wheel) which also prevents false operation of the driver shift down, e.g., with high speed or insertion of the reverse gear with higher speed.
In the so named S procedure an electronically steered intergas cares for a raised impression of dynamism.
Each of these waves is integrated with VW DSG about own, wet-running multiple disk clutch into the impulse. Dry-running clutches would be also possible for it, but one has decided for VW on account of the low place relations and by with the VW gulf(golf) R32 with 320 Nm torque caused high warm development for small wet-running clutches with little bit lower efficiency. However, the clutches do not run completely in the Ölbad by which they show lower loss performances than conventional wet-running clutches.

With Audi the DSG is not called since model year 2007 (approx. June, 2006) any more with DSG, but with S tronic. With it the designation was adapted in multitronic or tiptronic.

[RSmachine]

Since my very first car, I have always choosen manuals.
I like to drive, i like to shift, i like to race.
Recently i got to drive the 3.2 quattro TT w/ DSG. Wow this car is fun to drive. Not only does this car move through the rpms but the DSG doesnt waste a second in neutral it just clicks into gear all the way through.
As much as I like manuals, i think this would be the first time I would choose otherwise.
In the DSG you get the best of both worlds for everyday traffic or pushing the car to the limit.
If this DSG didn't shift so damn fast and smooth Id go manual.
Ive also driven the A3 and that is also a fun car. Why? Cuz of the DSG
Just my 2 cents

[mrponline]

I had the choice of the DSG when the R32 was purchased. But we ended up choosing the manual.

My wife and i test drove the car with both transmissions and for some reason with the manual you just felt more in control and the ability to get the power down quicker. Overall just more fun with the AWD, the DSG just gets boring after a while.

In the end the final decision was made by my wife as she would be driving the car the majority of the time.

[TJHUB]

While I do understand everyone's comments, I think given a choice I'd opt for the DSG. This is of course only if Audi gets the torque ratings up to a respectable level. I lived with weak transmission on my mind one time, and that's one time too many!

I very much believe the DSG is the future and it really seems the best of both worlds. I really need to drive one, but I can't imagine why I wouldn't like it.

[kak39]

I really need to drive one, but I can't imagine why I wouldn't like it.

Flip'n sides like anakin.

[rnp614]

Flip'n sides like anakin.

Wow.





Just wow.

[quattshot]

Flip'n sides like anakin.

You'll sell everything includin the mannequin

Hot.

[gyroscope]

I heard a rumor that Audi is phasing out the manual in favor of the DSG for 2008 model year. I need three pedals otherwise I get bored driving. I also heard that there are torque limitations with the DSG and a big turbo.