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mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 11:01 AM
Let me know what you guys think. It should be released to the public very soon by 034 Motorsport.


http://www.034motorsport.com/images/1.8TLONGHEADER1.JPG

http://www.034motorsport.com/images/1.8TLONGHEADER5.JPG

UN-PIMP-Z-A4
04-06-2007, 11:03 AM
bleh...



















[:p]

I'm not going use that big of a turbo to need that bad boy pictured above... [cool][up]

onemoremile
04-06-2007, 11:03 AM
Very nice. Cool head flange. What turbos does it fit?

bronz
04-06-2007, 11:05 AM
very nicee.. how muchhhh?! :D

EuroA4
04-06-2007, 11:12 AM
Nice...I like how you can actually get to all the head bolts when bolting it up!
What material is it made of? SS? Kind of look like Ti.

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 11:12 AM
Very nice. Cool head flange. What turbos does it fit?

Pretty much any turbo, you just pick what flange you want on the manifold when you place the order.

onemoremile
04-06-2007, 11:17 AM
321 stainless or 304?

Wizard-of-OD
04-06-2007, 11:23 AM
Very nice. Cool head flange. What turbos does it fit?
You specify if you want:
* T3 flange
* T4 flange
* V-Band flange for new Tial turbochargers

made from 304SS

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 11:27 AM
321 stainless or 304?


It is all 304 SS and all of the flanges are CC'd. The manifold can also be ordered with any WG flange and it can even be ordered with a 3k turbo flange if the person wants. Just got of the phone and 034 should have this all up on their site in a few hrs.

AUD-A4
04-06-2007, 11:40 AM
looks good,nice weld job too,when i go 1.8t i'll prob consider it!!!

salz2135
04-06-2007, 11:41 AM
any idea on pricing yet?

EDIT: nevermind I see it will all be available on the site within hours

Don Supreme
04-06-2007, 11:58 AM
Mike are you going to switch from full race to this? Also, it looks like some kind of side mount.... HOW IS THAT GOING TO FIT?

onemoremile
04-06-2007, 12:05 PM
900 bucks. (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_61&products_id=712)

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 12:08 PM
Mike are you going to switch from full race to this? Also, it looks like some kind of side mount.... HOW IS THAT GOING TO FIT?

No I dont plan on changing since my whole setup was built for the full-race manifold.

Don Supreme
04-06-2007, 12:09 PM
All these options for 1.8t these days......


Onemoremile... Are you going to go with a tubular or cast. I know you road race, so you might be worried about this type of mani.

One other thing to note is 034 is only offering a 1 year warranty where as full race offers LIFE TIME.

Wizard-of-OD
04-06-2007, 12:12 PM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3168648

AUD-A4
04-06-2007, 12:14 PM
900 bux changes my opinion,holy crap!!!lol

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 12:15 PM
All these options for 1.8t these days......


Onemoremile... Are you going to go with a tubular or cast. I know you road race, so you might be worried about this type of mani.

One other thing to note is 034 is only offering a 1 year warranty where as full race offers LIFE TIME.

You guys are lucky, back when I did mine there wasn't really anything out there when going with a BAT size turbo.


BTW I just had some cracks fixed on my full-race manifold which they fixed for free and I have had that manifold for over 3 years. But I am sure most of you aren't going to beat the crap out of your car like I do.[:D]

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 12:18 PM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3168648

Did I just hear some change hit the floor?[:p]

Wizard-of-OD
04-06-2007, 12:18 PM
900 bux changes my opinion,holy crap!!!lol
Sorry this isnt the ebay turbo manifold...
sale pending on 2 [eek]

@$800US I think the price is excellent for what it is.

onemoremile
04-06-2007, 12:27 PM
All these options for 1.8t these days......


Onemoremile... Are you going to go with a tubular or cast. I know you road race, so you might be worried about this type of mani.

One other thing to note is 034 is only offering a 1 year warranty where as full race offers LIFE TIME.

Tubular 321. Probably Swain coated too.

Wizard-of-OD
04-06-2007, 12:35 PM
FWIW,none of the manifolds 034 has sold has cracked....and no one does more track time than those guys.

Eurotuned_A4
04-06-2007, 01:54 PM
that is nice. how much does the full race price compare to this?

im glad these options are out there. now people are starting to have more choices. i plan to go bigger one day, so this will make it easier.

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 02:28 PM
that is nice. how much does the full race price compare to this?

im glad these options are out there. now people are starting to have more choices. i plan to go bigger one day, so this will make it easier.

Full-race manifold sells for just under $1300.

Wizard-of-OD
04-06-2007, 07:40 PM
Ok where is everyone that wanted one?

UN-PIMP-Z-A4
04-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Ok where is everyone that wanted one?

That's how it usually goes...

the oooo i want one i want one... Until it's attainable then they go into hiding...

Same thing happen to me when I put a feeler for my rims...
2 pages of interest. I put it on sale the next day, had it for sale for 3 months...

sean1.8t
04-06-2007, 09:23 PM
Ok where is everyone that wanted one?

when the time comes, i will buy one..

unless i decide to go a different route, then i'll need a vr6 manifold [;)]

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 10:10 PM
Ok where is everyone that wanted one?

Well today was a good friday and it is a holiday weekend so you might have to wait till Monday.

Wizard-of-OD
04-07-2007, 07:44 AM
the oooo i want one i want one... Until it's attainable then they go into hiding...

In that case where is 20vturbo,BaconBait,etc

For all those interested this is how its supposed to look inside the engine bay:
http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/532-2/002.jpg

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 07:48 AM
Well expect for only 1 wg instead of the 2 shown.

sean1.8t
04-07-2007, 07:54 AM
i guess i'll bring it up, is there enough room in there for a MAF sensor? it looks pretty tight where the compressor inlet is pointing

Don Supreme
04-07-2007, 08:08 AM
034 built/designed this thing so they are probably thinking everyone will run their stand alone which does not require a MAF.

Seriously, thats a BIG ASS TURBO, but it still doesn't seem like it leaves a lot of space.

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 08:19 AM
Maf sensor would just need to be put down below by using a 90 deg elbo hose on the turbo inlet.

badassb5
04-07-2007, 11:43 AM
Would that not be running the risk of getting the MAF wet?

goody6691
04-07-2007, 12:38 PM
Would that not be running the risk of getting the MAF wet?

the maf element would be inside the housing. with one end hooked to the turbo and hopefully a filter on the other end

badassb5
04-07-2007, 01:13 PM
I understand that, however, if you run a 90 degree bend straight down wouldn't the filter element run the risk of sucking in water and ruining the MAF possibly the turbo/ engine? Granted it's not very often we see rain that bad, but, it has happened.

Wizard-of-OD
04-07-2007, 02:38 PM
I understand that, however, if you run a 90 degree bend straight down wouldn't the filter element run the risk of sucking in water and ruining the MAF possibly the turbo/ engine? Granted it's not very often we see rain that bad, but, it has happened.

Ye if the filter was an inch off the ground....
FWIW...VF Engineering's SC kits for the 12V VR6 relocate the MAF right infront of the front tyre and the use a K&N filter with a bag to cover it.Have not seen any of the VR6's hydrolock yet.This manifold is not for the "average" user and I wouldnt expect the "average user" to purchase it.
Those who want this manifold know what it will take to get the components to work.
Lots of interested parties but ..

urS4
04-07-2007, 03:52 PM
I understand that, however, if you run a 90 degree bend straight down wouldn't the filter element run the risk of sucking in water and ruining the MAF possibly the turbo/ engine? Granted it's not very often we see rain that bad, but, it has happened.

Here's a pic of my old setup using a 4" elbow with a 928 S4 MAF and then a cone filter covered with a waterroof cover. I never had a water issue and I ran it through some very heavy rainstorms. The turbo is a GT35R.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/15349Intake1-med.jpg

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 04:10 PM
I understand that, however, if you run a 90 degree bend straight down wouldn't the filter element run the risk of sucking in water and ruining the MAF possibly the turbo/ engine? Granted it's not very often we see rain that bad, but, it has happened.

You would have to drive thru more then a foot of water for the turbo to suck the water into the filter if it is sitting at the bottom edge of the bumper. I ran it this way for some time even in the rain and had no problems.


Here is my setup back when I was running a MAF with the GT35r.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/2716coolant_lines.jpg

jrodmk2
04-07-2007, 05:47 PM
the wastegate position seems to be in the wrong direction for flow. it looks like it is less than 90 degrees in the wrong direction....

eurostylzmk4
04-07-2007, 06:02 PM
Thats a very nice looking piece, i may just have to add that when we drop in the new motor some swain coating and all good to go

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 07:42 PM
the wastegate position seems to be in the wrong direction for flow. it looks like it is less than 90 degrees in the wrong direction....

If you are talking about the 034 manifold, how do you get that?


The outlet of the 38mm wg is between the 2 mounting bolts. If you put it on the manifold the wg outlet pipe will come straight out and run nearly parallel with the DP till it feeds back into the DP before it angles down.


Tial 38mm WG
http://www.tialsport.com/p_images/tial-hw-wg38wpair_m.jpg


Unless you are talking about my full-race manifold in my picture above?

lanks
04-07-2007, 08:14 PM
i'm signed up for one..... can't wait, just in time for my turbo that i am setting up. really its a great price. [up]

Wizard-of-OD
04-08-2007, 07:41 AM
[confused]

the wastegate position seems to be in the wrong direction for flow. it looks like it is less than 90 degrees in the wrong direction....
Care to design the next manifold?

This manifold was designed,built,tested since January 2006.We are in March 2007...it wouldnt have been put into production if every SINGLE problem was not solved.The wastegate position is fine.
I could say 2 are sold?

onemoremile
04-08-2007, 08:31 AM
It should be 321 stainless. Why go through all that work to make it out of the cheapest stainless rather than the best?

mike-2ptzero
04-08-2007, 08:50 AM
It should be 321 stainless. Why go through all that work to make it out of the cheapest stainless rather than the best?


Thickest the 321ss comes in is 16 gauge which is .065" thick, while the thick wall 304ss used for turbo manifolds is 0.125" thick. They use the 304ss thick wall for a reason since the 16 gauge steel tends to crack because of the high temps.

onemoremile
04-08-2007, 10:11 AM
Cool. Sounds like they know what they're doing.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechArticles/Stainless_article/stainless_article.html

Wizard-of-OD
04-08-2007, 11:16 AM
It should be 321 stainless. Why go through all that work to make it out of the cheapest stainless rather than the best?
All the manifolds out there are made from 304 SS...

Need 7 more guys!
BAMP!

jrodmk2
04-08-2007, 04:01 PM
all i was saying was that it just seems as if it could have been positioned better for the flow to the exhaust. optimum would be nearly the same orientation as the turbo, and the way that it is spotted on this manifold is one of the least desirable. 90 degrees is what everybody uses as a cop out. and this is worse than that. that is all.
[confused]

Care to design the next manifold?

sure i will take my days off from being an architect.

This manifold was designed,built,tested since January 2006.We are in March 2007...it wouldnt have been put into production if every SINGLE problem was not solved.The wastegate position is fine.
I could say 2 are sold?

it has been tested, not to say it could not be better right? two is a great start too.

mike-2ptzero
04-08-2007, 06:53 PM
all i was saying was that it just seems as if it could have been positioned better for the flow to the exhaust. optimum would be nearly the same orientation as the turbo, and the way that it is spotted on this manifold is one of the least desirable. 90 degrees is what everybody uses as a cop out. and this is worse than that. that is all.

it has been tested, not to say it could not be better right? two is a great start too.

I still dont understand what your trying to say. Is it the outlet of the wg postion or the inlet of the wg that you seem to have a issue with?

jrodmk2
04-08-2007, 08:08 PM
the inlet.

mike-2ptzero
04-08-2007, 08:26 PM
the inlet.


I dont see how the WG inlet can be anywhere else.

maxspeed
04-08-2007, 08:34 PM
damn, niggas tryin to stick for my paper...

jrodmk2
04-09-2007, 06:45 AM
I dont see how the WG inlet can be anywhere else.

angle of... not just physical location.

Wizard-of-OD
04-09-2007, 08:29 AM
angle of... not just physical location.
The ideal location for a wastegate is on the turbo manifold collector....hence where it is on this manifold.The wastegate is positioned so that the outlet faces the firewall.
Does not get much simpler than that.

A4Rob
04-09-2007, 10:27 AM
wait, is there a GROUP BUY on this?

jrodmk2
04-09-2007, 10:42 AM
The ideal location for a wastegate is on the turbo manifold collector....hence where it is on this manifold.The wastegate is positioned so that the outlet faces the firewall.
Does not get much simpler than that.



nevermind. [rolleyes]

badassb5
04-09-2007, 10:48 AM
wait, is there a GROUP BUY on this?

Yes, Wiz posted the link earlier, here it is.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3168648

mike-2ptzero
04-09-2007, 11:06 AM
nevermind. [rolleyes]

Yes please because you keep beating around the bush. Like it really matters since it is just a damn wg inlet.

jrodmk2
04-09-2007, 11:20 AM
damn wg inlet....boost control is not important????? lets put it this way. the wastegate is like (on our cars) a fifth runner, why would you put a runner perpendicular or in the wrong direction of flow? does it make sense now?

Wizard-of-OD
04-09-2007, 12:27 PM
damn wg inlet....boost control is not important????? lets put it this way. the wastegate is like (on our cars) a fifth runner, why would you put a runner perpendicular or in the wrong direction of flow? does it make sense now?
When you have 700+AWhp or more then you can come and argue your point to me.
Until then stick to architechture or whatever it is you do because CLEARLY you dont have a clue about what your talking about.

Understand how a wastegate works first and then argue your point.I could place the wastegate on runner#1 and it would still work (not fine... but it will still work.)
The wastegate is conventionally placed on the collector as it has been done on the Audi S1 and every production AAN/3B/RS2 motor since the late 80's.

Anything else you would like to state or are you going to keep arguing a mute point?

p.s. Rob buy one to compliment that nice Stage Ic system :D

mike-2ptzero
04-09-2007, 12:36 PM
damn wg inlet....boost control is not important????? lets put it this way. the wastegate is like (on our cars) a fifth runner, why would you put a runner perpendicular or in the wrong direction of flow? does it make sense now?

well it really isn't a "runner" since it is not connectect to the head. It is just another exhaust path and exhaust will always follow the path with the least resistance.


Lets also not forget the limited space in the A4, this isn't a transvers engine layout.

jrodmk2
04-10-2007, 08:44 AM
i like the use of the bold text. it works well. good things take time, you will see.
it's funny how you agree, then say it does not matter, but clearly i don't know.[:o]



When you have 700+AWhp or more then you can come and argue your point to me.
Until then stick to architechture or whatever it is you do because CLEARLY you dont have a clue about what your talking about.

Understand how a wastegate works first and then argue your point.I could place the wastegate on runner#1 and it would still work (not fine... but it will still work.)
The wastegate is conventionally placed on the collector as it has been done on the Audi S1 and every production AAN/3B/RS2 motor since the late 80's.

Anything else you would like to state or are you going to keep arguing a mute point?

p.s. Rob buy one to compliment that nice Stage Ic system :D

jrodmk2
04-10-2007, 08:47 AM
you got me on the connected to the head thing.[rolleyes]
the more accurate the boost control"path" the better right?
true about the damn space though.

well it really isn't a "runner" since it is not connectect to the head. It is just another exhaust path and exhaust will always follow the path with the least resistance.


Lets also not forget the limited space in the A4, this isn't a transvers engine layout.

mike-2ptzero
04-10-2007, 09:28 AM
you got me on the connected to the head thing.[rolleyes]
the more accurate the boost control"path" the better right?
true about the damn space though.

The only thing it would cause is boost creep if the wg flow is slightly restricted even with the wg fully open. I dont think that is going to be an issue anyway unless they plan on running a huge turbo and boost at less then 15psi with a 38mm wg.


I mean come on, WG is just a flow gate with something controlling it to open or close. If the path is not good enough the wg just opens more. If it is not good enough then you just upgrade to a larger wg and the issue is gone.


It almost sounds like you are trying to make people think that if the flow thru the wg is bad they will not make enough boost, which some of us know that is not true.

Wizard-of-OD
04-10-2007, 09:59 AM
it's funny how you agree, then say it does not matter, but clearly i don't know.[:o]
I said it will work,just like a GT55 on a 1.8T will work...

"good things take time"...ha if I was given a penny for everytime I heard that.

share your knowledge with me and state why you dont think the wastegate location is ideal instead of spitting out randomness.

onemoremile
04-10-2007, 11:16 AM
damn wg inlet....boost control is not important????? lets put it this way. the wastegate is like (on our cars) a fifth runner, why would you put a runner perpendicular or in the wrong direction of flow? does it make sense now?

The wastegate is in the proper spot. It is in the collector and fed equally by all runners. It looks like it's exhaust could be piped back into the downpipe too.

Wizard-of-OD
04-18-2007, 04:19 PM
http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/1233-2/004.jpg (http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/1232-1/004.jpg)
http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/1236-2/005.jpg (http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/1235-1/005.jpg)
(click for larger images)

badassb5
04-18-2007, 06:04 PM
Dayum nice

mike-2ptzero
04-18-2007, 09:25 PM
Looks good, cant wait to seem more.

damnthemansam
04-18-2007, 11:52 PM
mmmmm sexy

edit: i think your missing something on the front of the car.. headlights maybe?

B5-B_Broke
04-19-2007, 12:10 AM
In that case where is 20vturbo,BaconBait,etc

For all those interested this is how its supposed to look inside the engine bay:
http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/532-2/002.jpg

oooooo shiny...

mike-2ptzero
04-19-2007, 07:17 AM
mmmmm sexy

edit: i think your missing something on the front of the car.. headlights maybe?

What are head lights?[:p]

samx
04-19-2007, 08:39 AM
Here's pics of mine. 034 tubular header, GT2871R w/ .63 T3 ex housing, Tial 38mm wastegate. 034 IIc ECU, innovate LC-1/XD-16 wideband.

I believe that I have an early production version as the pics on the 034 website are a little different. It's been running for a bout 6 months including one track day last weekend with no issues. The single complaint I have about the header is that there is very little room in front of the turbo for an intake. Even a 3" cobra hose doesn't quite fit. I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do yet. I may mill off part of the compressor inlet and weld a cast aluminum elbow to it.

Otherwise I've been pretty happy with it. It's a tight fit, there's really no way around it.

Early mock up with GT 5 bolt housing
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P7290302.jpg
T3 externally gated housing, begining down pipe constuction.
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P8190336.jpg
Completed downpipe with wastegate plumbed.
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P9090332.jpg
Complete install, still waiting for intake.
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/PA030368.jpg
3" Downpipe
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P9090338.jpg
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P9090339.jpg

mike-2ptzero
04-19-2007, 09:37 AM
Since you are running stand alone have you thought about just running a filter right on the turbo inlet and using a catch can so you can loose the crank case breather? This will also increase flow into the turbo and during track days you can just remove the head light or make a fake headlight.

samx
04-19-2007, 09:43 AM
Since you are running stand alone have you thought about just running a filter right on the turbo inlet and using a catch can so you can loose the crank case breather? This will also increase flow into the turbo and during track days you can just remove the head light or make a fake headlight.
Yup, I have an HKS low profile filter, it won't fit without modifying the comp housing.

mike-2ptzero
04-19-2007, 09:56 AM
Yup, I have an HKS low profile filter, it won't fit without modifying the comp housing.

Did you cut off some of the mounting area on the HKS filter plate so you can move it closer to the turbo?
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/2716034efi_008.jpg


Only bad part about the HKS filter is that you have to use a short hose to mount it to the turbo, I wish they just made one that already had the hose part of the filter instead of that plastic part on the back. This way the filter could be mounted much closer to the turbo inlet.

Well turns out they might already have a filter like that.
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/30063905/Images/2T3T4-TF-TC.jpg

EuroA4
04-19-2007, 10:26 AM
There looks like there is enough room to make a 90 bend and attach a normal size filter to it behind the H/L area?

http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/PA030368.jpg

samx
04-19-2007, 10:42 AM
When you plug in the headlight harness it takes up about an inch of space. I have seen people relocate the harness, but I'm not sure if I want to do that yet.

Here's another pic:
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P7290296.jpg

samx
04-19-2007, 10:47 AM
Did you cut off some of the mounting area on the HKS filter plate so you can move it closer to the turbo?

Not yet, I didn't want to cut anything until I was sure. I'll take another look at it this weekend.

UN-PIMP-Z-A4
04-19-2007, 11:50 AM
Damn Samx you come out like once in a blue moon...
Thanks for the shotgun pipe, your setup looks noice... [cool][up] Why did you choose the .63 housing on that 2871r?

mike-2ptzero
04-19-2007, 12:15 PM
When you plug in the headlight harness it takes up about an inch of space. I have seen people relocate the harness, but I'm not sure if I want to do that yet.

Here's another pic:
http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P7290296.jpg

You need to do what I did. Remove the high beam cover and plug the harness in directly into the plug and place it in side the head light or just outside of the head light. Then you can always cover the opening with something else. You can see it in the picture of my turbo posted in my other reply. You might need to do the same with the low beam cover.

samx
04-19-2007, 01:06 PM
Damn Samx you come out like once in a blue moon...
Thanks for the shotgun pipe, your setup looks noice... [cool][up] Why did you choose the .63 housing on that 2871r?
I still lurk pretty regularly, I just don't have much to say.

I went with the .63 to help it spool a little quicker.

You get that shotgun installed yet?

samx
04-19-2007, 01:08 PM
You need to do what I did. Remove the high beam cover and plug the harness in directly into the plug and place it in side the head light or just outside of the head light. Then you can always cover the opening with something else. You can see it in the picture of my turbo posted in my other reply. You might need to do the same with the low beam cover.

I noticed that in your profile over on 034s website. I'll probably have to do the same to buy a little extra space.

California Jay
04-20-2007, 06:31 AM
Here's pics of mine. 034 tubular header, GT2871R w/ .63 T3 ex housing, Tial 38mm wastegate. 034 IIc ECU, innovate LC-1/XD-16 wideband.

I believe that I have an early production version as the pics on the 034 website are a little different. It's been running for a bout 6 months including one track day last weekend with no issues. .

Otherwise I've been pretty happy with it. It's a tight fit, there's really no way around it.


http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/601/P8190336.jpg


I always wondered where this thing really ended up.

samx
04-20-2007, 07:38 AM
So, this was one of yours Jay? I always thought it looked an awful lot like the one on your cardomain site.

UN-PIMP-Z-A4
04-20-2007, 09:10 AM
I still lurk pretty regularly, I just don't have much to say.

I went with the .63 to help it spool a little quicker.

You get that shotgun installed yet?

Yup, smelly fumes and all... LOL [cool][up]

Wizard-of-OD
04-20-2007, 10:28 AM
I believe that I have an early production version as the pics on the 034 website are a little different.
Hi Sam,
yes you have the 1st prototype of the manifold (manifold 001).
The production version that is now built in house @ 034 Motorsports was moved back and closer to the head to allow more room for an air filter such as the HKS unit on Mike's engine or the 3" 90* Bend as well as 3+" downpipe.You will also notice the production version Tial flange lets the 38mm outlet exit facing the firewall rather than the cylinder head.

That manifold was built to run a GT42R,guess you never made it to that did you...[:p]
http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/854-2/DSCN10700.JPG