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View Full Version : On my way to some really good HP



Oricle
04-05-2007, 06:40 PM
Just ordered the 3" Inlet upgrade through ATP.
My TP will be getting made while my cars in the body shop.
Now I'm shooting for around 280WHP on 91.


[hail] [hail]

superman_006
04-05-2007, 06:53 PM
[up] How much did that set you back

Oricle
04-05-2007, 06:55 PM
[up] How much did that set you back

ATP-VVW-153 ATP 3" Inlet pipe upgrade for longitudinal 1.8T Audi/Passat 1 $259.00 $259.00
Platform: B5_97_1999
Turbo_Type: ElminatorGTRS
Shipping: UPS 3 Day Select: $15.17
Sales Tax: $0.00

I'll have it on the dyno next Friday again.
I e-mailed inmotion to see injector wise if he thinks I'm going to need to go to the 380's, and drop back down to a 4 bar FPR, and maybe upgrade the fuel pump.

Through vag can you check fuel trims, etc? Never have had any experience with VAG-COM. Always used OEM scantools when at work, or Snap-On solus when working on my Audi which will only have a generic mode.

SeanF
04-05-2007, 07:14 PM
block 031 is lambda values (current fuel trims)

block 032 is long term fuel trims...

Oricle
04-05-2007, 07:16 PM
block 031 is lambda values (current fuel trims)

block 032 is long term fuel trims...

Thanks.

seank
04-05-2007, 07:22 PM
should have bought it through boostfactory you could have saved yourself some cash, but atleast you upgraded.

Oricle
04-05-2007, 07:26 PM
should have bought it through boostfactory you could have saved yourself some cash, but atleast you upgraded.



[headbang]
I didn't even think of that.
He's offered to hook me up before, on my turbo but I didn't have all the money in my paypal.

I might call ATP and cancel my order and tell them I found it somewhere else for cheaper. He even has it listed for only $230.00 on his site.

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 07:55 PM
block 031 is lambda values (current fuel trims)



Note:
Pre MY01 block 031 reads voltage(higher = richer)
MY01+ block 031 reads Lambda voltage, to get AFR its (voltage x 14.7= AFR)

BJC
04-06-2007, 11:01 AM
You will not make 280whp on those tiny injectors...

Oricle
04-06-2007, 11:11 AM
You will not make 280whp on those tiny injectors...


People also doubted making close to 250WHP on them. I'm planning on going to TT225 injectors, or 430cc's this summer when I do some engine work, but if there was any limiting factor in 280WHP it'd deffinatly be the injectors. I know I wont have a problem breaking 250WHP on them.

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 11:18 AM
People also doubted making close to 250WHP on them. I'm planning on going to TT225 injectors, or 430cc's this summer when I do some engine work, but if there was any limiting factor in 280WHP it'd deffinatly be the injectors. I know I wont have a problem breaking 250WHP on them.

Sure if you crank the hell out of the fuel pressure, but that is a double edged sword since high fuel pressure = decrease in flow at the pump.

Oricle
04-06-2007, 12:03 PM
Sure if you crank the hell out of the fuel pressure, but that is a double edged sword since high fuel pressure = decrease in flow at the pump.

I realised I'm going to be really running hard on that after thinking about it for a while.
After listening to your Fuel Pressure formula in that one thread I'm a bit worried.

Don Supreme
04-06-2007, 12:05 PM
run bigger injectors...............

Oricle
04-06-2007, 12:08 PM
run bigger injectors...............

How much are you asking for your 440's? Fuel pattern wise I've heard really bad things due to the multivalve head, which is why I was leaning towards the TT225's which I know would be fine for my setup.

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 12:09 PM
run bigger injectors...............

and a 3bar fpr or adjustable

Oricle
04-06-2007, 12:10 PM
and a 3bar fpr or adjustable

Oh, i was going to drop the 5bar down for sure when I do swap the injectors. Tune wise think I'll be needing to get it changed at all?

Don Supreme
04-06-2007, 12:13 PM
The 440s work fine. I currently run 630s, but thats because i need more fuel for my turbo. In fact I need bigger injectors than 630s, but this will do for now since I am running low boost.

mike-2ptzero
04-06-2007, 02:33 PM
The 440s work fine. I currently run 630s, but thats because i need more fuel for my turbo. In fact I need bigger injectors than 630s, but this will do for now since I am running low boost.

I was running 800cc injectors up to this point but they were running at max, now I am going to 1000cc.[:p]

Don Supreme
04-07-2007, 07:54 AM
Yeah I really wanted 1000cc-s, but not too many options for the stock ecu.

superman_006
04-07-2007, 08:58 AM
Your injectors (06B 133 551 M) are 282cc @ 3 bar, and
325.6cc @ 4bar (OEM tune)
364 cc @ 5 bar (your tune)

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/formula-4.gif

Mine are the 0 280 150 447
210cc @3bar
242cc @ 4bar
271cc @5bar

Also with calculating that 364cc can create 316 chp or 246 awhp with 100% duty cycle on the injectors

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 09:21 AM
Your injectors (06B 133 551 M) are 282cc @ 3 bar, and
325.6cc @ 4bar (OEM tune)
364 cc @ 5 bar (your tune)

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/formula-4.gif

Mine are the 0 280 150 447
210cc @3bar
242cc @ 4bar
271cc @5bar

Also with calculating that 364cc can create 316 chp or 246 awhp with 100% duty cycle on the injectors

Isn't those hp #'s for a NA? If so that would mean the car is being ran at over 14:1 while you run at 11:1, this would mean you would need much larger injectors to move more fuel to produce the same #'s.

Oricle
04-07-2007, 09:28 AM
Isn't those hp #'s for a NA? If so that would mean the car is being ran at over 14:1 while you run at 11:1, this would mean you would need much larger injectors to move more fuel to produce the same #'s.

Our tune actually is 10:1 up top. But through mid range it stays just a bit above 12:1.

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 09:32 AM
Our tune actually is 10:1 up top. But through mid range it stays just a bit above 12:1.

above being richer? That 10:1 could just mean he isn't running enough timing by running a flat timing map. Most tuners increase timinng after full boost(tq peak) hits.

superman_006
04-07-2007, 09:32 AM
Yes if he gets larger injectors and just lowers the pressure using that formula still be in tune [up]
I think he's already maxed out on his HP for those injectors, that was a great dyno tune (almost 250hp), they are pulling every thing they can out of those injectors.

I got some 440cc delipha injectors but I cant find out what pressure the 440cc would be at, I have found 20 diffrent psi

Oricle
04-07-2007, 09:38 AM
above being richer? That 10:1 could just mean he isn't running enough timing by running a flat timing map. Most tuners increase timinng after full boost(tq peak) hits.

Yes. I'm not really sure on that-I didn't see the tune. I do know they pulled some timing at one point, and decided to put it back in.

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 09:39 AM
Yes if he gets larger injectors and just lowers the pressure using that formula still be in tune [up]
I think he's already maxed out on his HP for those injectors, that was a great dyno tune (almost 250hp), they are pulling every thing they can out of those injectors.

I got some 440cc delipha injectors but I cant find out what pressure the 440cc would be at, I have found 20 diffrent psi

Most of all injectors are rated at 3 bar(43.5psi).

superman_006
04-07-2007, 01:31 PM
Most of all injectors are rated at 3 bar(43.5psi).

Thats what I am quessing, which would mean 440cc would require a new tune or to run the the Fuel Pressure too low[mad] of 32.4psi (2.2bar)[down] I think it would need a retune mainly for the injector pulse

380cc wouldnt require a retune, only change of fuel pressure to be ~3 bar

TT225 Quattro 2001-2004
AMU 225 386cc @3bar
06A 906 031 J
0 280 155 893
EV12

Oricle
04-07-2007, 01:43 PM
Thats what I am quessing, which would mean 440cc would require a new tune or to run the the Fuel Pressure too low[mad] of 32.4psi (2.2bar)[down] I think it would need a retune mainly for the injector pulse

380cc wouldnt require a retune, only change of fuel pressure to be ~3 bar

TT225 Quattro 2001-2004
AMU 225 386cc @3bar
06A 906 031 J
0 280 155 893
EV12

Yep the 380's are what I'm going to be going towards at a 3 bar. I was going to pick up don supremes 440's but I don't want to have to retune.

Don Supreme
04-07-2007, 05:31 PM
A little off topic, but hmmm

You know EVO 8s come with 550cc injectors stock and they only make 28x CHP from the factory.

I wonder what the designers were thinking when they did that.

superman_006
04-07-2007, 06:14 PM
Shorter injector pulses? 10,000 rpms?

Don Supreme
04-07-2007, 07:08 PM
They only rev to 7K stock.

Oricle
04-07-2007, 07:14 PM
A little off topic, but hmmm

You know EVO 8s come with 550cc injectors stock and they only make 28x CHP from the factory.

I wonder what the designers were thinking when they did that.

[confused]
Doesn't really seem to matter. They could toss 630's in there from the factory if they wanted. While you do have a point they don't stress out 280's, they very likely may put 550's in for future tuning.

superman_006
04-07-2007, 07:39 PM
A little off topic, but hmmm

You know EVO 8s come with 550cc injectors stock and they only make 28x CHP from the factory.

I wonder what the designers were thinking when they did that.


I am sure its more for effencant the run the larger injectors and a lower injector cycle but with out a ECU re-tune he cant change the injector pulse enough with vag-com

mike-2ptzero
04-07-2007, 07:49 PM
They only rev to 7K stock.

Very correct, even modified they tend to only run to 8k. All of my evo friends shift at around 7600 rpm even while making 600whp. It isn't a "honda".

turboquattro068
04-15-2007, 09:36 AM
I am sure its more for effencant the run the larger injectors and a lower injector cycle but with out a ECU re-tune he cant change the injector pulse enough with vag-com


How do you change injector pulse with the vag com, i need to turn mine up slowly, i seem to be running slightly lean....nothiing threating but hey, i want my engine to last!

superman_006
04-15-2007, 09:43 AM
How do you change injector pulse with the vag com, i need to turn mine up slowly, i seem to be running slightly lean....nothiing threating but hey, i want my engine to last!


If your entire map needs moved up its best to just get a adjustable FPR and bump the pressure up till your tune matches your car, If you have DBW, you can flash your ECU with Cuda or Lemniwinks and slightly tweak the injector pulse, I think you can change it up to 5% (accual) but I dont have a DBW ecu, so I am definatly not %100 sure on that