PDA

View Full Version : s4 tranny in a 1.8t



stunner247
04-04-2007, 05:13 PM
Hey, whats up guys. I'm new to the forums an had a queston for you all. Anyone put a b5 s4 tranny in a 1.8? I know that it can be done and that I'll need the s4 rear diff and drive shaft, but what else will I need to do? does the tranny bolt up to the 1.8 block or do I need an adapter, and will the linkage need to be modified? Thanks guys, look forward to posting more.

sean1.8t
04-04-2007, 05:25 PM
PM this guy---http://www.audizine.com/forum/member.php?u=11477 (http://www.audizine.com/forum/member.php?u=11477)

dozentrio
04-05-2007, 12:42 AM
Ahh, the s4 tranny in A4. When my 1.8t tranny was on its way out, I heard about a guy with some of the s4 parts required for this, and was seriously considering it for a while. 6 speed tranny sounded very nice.

I believe you need some parts of the s4 sub frame to even attempt it? I also kind of doubt it will be a straight bolt up job...

I went with a 2.8L tranny, which I'm quite happy with. Taller gearing is definately noticeable, which can make the car less zippy but with higher top speed, and rev lower... Supposedly the 2.8 is also stronger.

good luck with the s4 tranny :D curious to see if it would work. And yes, I realize i've been absolutely no help at all

speedydragon
04-05-2007, 01:52 AM
from what I've read in previous posts, you would need a lot more than just the s4 tranny.

docurley
04-05-2007, 01:57 AM
Six speed conversion parts list and comments for 98.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ with push down shifter R. Sierra 6-11-02

Qty Description Part number Price $

1 Bushing 4B0 711 184 3.15
1 Shift linkage 8D0 711 151 D 143.01
1 Screw N 090 316 4 1.73
1 Push Rod 8D0 711-271 J 47.9
1 Ball socket 8D0 711 334 C 47.9
2 Buffer 8A0 711 133 16.32
1 R Side rubber mount 8D0 399 151 T 39.35
1 Stop 431 399 291 15.6
1 Right side mount 8D0 399 108 AN 55.42
1 Left side mount 8D0 399 107S 26.69

397.07


Notes:

Left side mount not required, used as template to modify A4 mount
Assumes short shifter is purchased, otherwise OE 6 speed shift lever and related parts are required per ETKA
I did not use part number 4B0 711 184, ETKA shows as required
Prices are from Clair invoice dated 5-8-02
The right side rubber mount and stop appear to be identical ( the rubber may be harder durometer) but ETKA shows a different number for the six speed trans

Other parts not shown but required:
01E six speed trans (I used a NueS4)
NueS4 driveshaft
NueS4 rear differential (assumes 6 speed has 4.11 final drive, if 3.89 drive is used rear differential is not required)
100 mm rear CV flanges must be swapped from A4 differential to S4 diff, or use S4 rear drive axles
100 mm front CV flanges must be used or swap S4 front drive axles, however S4 wheel bearing is larger. I had German Transaxle swap my front CV flanges,
therefore I do not know part number. I believe they are different than 5 speed 100 mm CV flanges
Right side trans mount heat shield (my car has a custom down pipe very close to the right side mount, which currently does not have clearance for the heat shield)
The A4 shield can probably be modified or use the S4 shield, other cars may not have the clearance problem

ActiveMonkey
04-05-2007, 08:19 AM
so you're telling me i should just buy an S4, check.

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 08:28 AM
For the money it just isn't worth doing the S4 6 speed trans. For 1/4 of the cost you could do the 2.8 trans which has taller gearing then the 1.8t trans and will drop 5th gear by 500-600 rpms while cruising at 80 mph.

docurley
04-05-2007, 08:29 AM
so you're telling me i should just buy an S4, check.


Nope, you have to look at what involved and make your own mind up.[:D]

Bic-Ball
04-05-2007, 09:56 AM
is there a ballpark range on what a 2.8 swap would cost?

Lazer Viking
04-05-2007, 10:05 AM
yea, however much you can get the tranny and mounts for

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 10:13 AM
is there a ballpark range on what a 2.8 swap would cost?

Depends on the price of the trans and the labor to put it in. You dont need any special mounts since you just transfer the ones on your 1.8 trans to the 2.8 trans. I put mine in myself and paid about $1000 for the used 2.8 trans.

Tiluleshpingen
04-05-2007, 10:23 AM
Would a B6 or B7 A4 6 speed trans. be a better option?

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 10:28 AM
Would a B6 or B7 A4 6 speed trans. be a better option?

At this time those cost more then buying a B5 S4 6 speed.

Tiluleshpingen
04-05-2007, 10:30 AM
but would it be a direct replacement?

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 10:40 AM
but would it be a direct replacement?

Not exactly. Pretty sure it uses a different bell housing, plus those are mounted using a single trans mount that bolts the the bottom of the housing. People say it can be done but I have yet to see one done.

onemoremile
04-05-2007, 10:47 AM
It has been a while since these were posted up. Going full screen should put them all side by side. There is a 200 rpm drop at 80. Our fifth gear is pretty close to the S4's fifth gear.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/2001A4gearing.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/2001A42.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/2001S4gearing.jpg

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 11:05 AM
I thought all 1.8tq's are closer to 3800 rpm at 80 or is that 85. All I know is I dropped about 400 rpm at 80 mph. Could that be a FWD 1.8t list? IIRC it takes more then 2nd gear running to 7200 to reach 60 mph with a 1.8t quattro trans which is why I think it is a FWD list.

onemoremile
04-05-2007, 11:10 AM
I got the gear ratios, stock tire size, and final drive from AW's model guides and punched it into an online calculator. The data I started with isn't guaranteed to be correct but it was published data.

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 11:12 AM
I got the gear ratios, stock tire size, and final drive from AW's model guides and punched it into an online calculator. The data I started with isn't guaranteed to be correct but it was published data.


Dont they list both fwd and quattro since the gearings are different?

quickglx
04-05-2007, 02:21 PM
Six speed conversion parts list and comments for 98.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ with push down shifter R. Sierra 6-11-02

Qty Description Part number Price $

1 Bushing 4B0 711 184 3.15
1 Shift linkage 8D0 711 151 D 143.01
1 Screw N 090 316 4 1.73
1 Push Rod 8D0 711-271 J 47.9
1 Ball socket 8D0 711 334 C 47.9
2 Buffer 8A0 711 133 16.32
1 R Side rubber mount 8D0 399 151 T 39.35
1 Stop 431 399 291 15.6
1 Right side mount 8D0 399 108 AN 55.42
1 Left side mount 8D0 399 107S 26.69

397.07


Notes:

Left side mount not required, used as template to modify A4 mount
Assumes short shifter is purchased, otherwise OE 6 speed shift lever and related parts are required per ETKA
I did not use part number 4B0 711 184, ETKA shows as required
Prices are from Clair invoice dated 5-8-02
The right side rubber mount and stop appear to be identical ( the rubber may be harder durometer) but ETKA shows a different number for the six speed trans

Other parts not shown but required:
01E six speed trans (I used a NueS4)
NueS4 driveshaft
NueS4 rear differential (assumes 6 speed has 4.11 final drive, if 3.89 drive is used rear differential is not required)
100 mm rear CV flanges must be swapped from A4 differential to S4 diff, or use S4 rear drive axles
100 mm front CV flanges must be used or swap S4 front drive axles, however S4 wheel bearing is larger. I had German Transaxle swap my front CV flanges,
therefore I do not know part number. I believe they are different than 5 speed 100 mm CV flanges
Right side trans mount heat shield (my car has a custom down pipe very close to the right side mount, which currently does not have clearance for the heat shield)
The A4 shield can probably be modified or use the S4 shield, other cars may not have the clearance problem

So the output flanges of the differential on the 6sp are a different size than the ones on the 5sp?

onemoremile
04-05-2007, 02:38 PM
Dont they list both fwd and quattro since the gearings are different?

I used Quattro for everything.

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 02:56 PM
I used Quattro for everything.

Then I dont know because the 1.8 list just seems way off(mph too high). I dont think anyone here with the 1.8t quattro trans has been able to hit 164 mph by 7200 rpm in 5th gear. Odd thing is that is the top speed that BoooostedA4 has hit in his FWD while the top speed the quattro guys have stated are low to mid 150's at redline(7200). Back when I had the 1.8 quattro trans I was only able to hit 95mph by 7800 rpm in 3rd gear on a dyno. When I went to the 2.8 trans it jump up to 115 by 7800 rpm.

Beemer832
04-05-2007, 03:05 PM
i have an s4 6speed in my 1.8t.. with the gt28rs apr kit in it.. i get about 350-380 miles to a tank.. which is like ~13.2 gallons or so.. and thats hw miles.... the car also ran a "supposedly" 12.7 in the 1/4 mile....so I am sure the gearing ratio is a bit different....

josh

onemoremile
04-05-2007, 03:32 PM
Maybe the numbers for the 2.8 trans are off? I don't know. I know the charts correspond directly with my 1.8t and the S4. I'm nerdy enough to crosscheck that sort of thing. [:p]

This is an old pic from my car on 225/50-16 tires. The chart says 65 should be 2850 revs.

BTW, that average gas mileage is after almost 200 miles. That is the first 200 miles after putting the new rods and rings in. [:D]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_2971.jpg

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 04:13 PM
Maybe the numbers for the 2.8 trans are off? I don't know. I know the charts correspond directly with my 1.8t and the S4. I'm nerdy enough to crosscheck that sort of thing. [:p]

This is an old pic from my car on 225/50-16 tires. The chart says 65 should be 2850 revs.

BTW, that average gas mileage is after almost 200 miles. That is the first 200 miles after putting the new rods and rings in. [:D]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_2971.jpg

Well I guess the list could be off in the higher rpms since everyone states they see 3800 rpm at 80 mph in tons of posts here and on audiworld.

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 04:14 PM
i have an s4 6speed in my 1.8t.. with the gt28rs apr kit in it.. i get about 350-380 miles to a tank.. which is like ~13.2 gallons or so.. and thats hw miles.... the car also ran a "supposedly" 12.7 in the 1/4 mile....so I am sure the gearing ratio is a bit different....

josh

Who did you buy the car from?

Beemer832
04-05-2007, 04:36 PM
rich sierra.... indirectly from him.. i actually bought it from another guy who owned the car for about ~3 months

josh

onemoremile
04-05-2007, 04:44 PM
(80/65)*2850=3508 rpm. Chart shows 3500 at 80.

Has anyone been able to hit 7200 rpm in fifth gear? 82 @ 3600 fits with the chart and my indicated speed. The S4 was run at a GPS verified 162 in Montana a couple years ago. It redlined fifth but ran out of steam in sixth. Aerodynamics really kicked torque's ass.

FWIW, I ran the same chart on my old 94 Jetta GLX VR6 on 205/50-15 and it was dead on with my honeymoon pic.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/1174jetta_in_vail_small.JPG



Well I guess the list could be off in the higher rpms since everyone states they see 3800 rpm at 80 mph in tons of posts here and on audiworld.

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 07:20 PM
I just found a post of mine on audiworld from 2005. I must have been thinking of 3800 at 85 mph, but we were both slightly wrong about 80 which turns out to be right around 3635 and a top speed of 158.4 mph at 7200. There is also a post by Ray Kahn about a stage 3 that hit 152-154 on the rev limiter which should be 7100-7200.

link to calc (http://www.car-videos.com/tools/speedrpm.asp?Car=Select&Num1=225&Num2=45&Num3=17&AxleRatio=3.889&Ratio1=3.778&Ratio2=2.176&Ratio3=1.429&Ratio4=1.029&Ratio5=.838&Ratio6=&Ratio7=&Redline=7200&Increment=10&B1=Recalculate)

my old post from 2005 (http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/2316654.phtml)

onemoremile
04-05-2007, 08:12 PM
^^ good info.

quickglx
04-06-2007, 10:50 AM
So the output flanges of the differential on the 6sp are a different size than the ones on the 5sp?

Anyone? I'm putting the S4 knuckles, brakes, and axles on this wknd... I guess I'll pull the output flanges just in case...