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Oricle
04-04-2007, 10:18 AM
Are TP's/HFC's worth it? I see everyone is going to them but does the stock Cat really plug up that much? I deffinatly know it's the weak part of my exhaust considering everything else is 3" back.

Also are the inlet pipes worth it? Those things seem like a fucking gimic. Does anyone have any dynos of them as well?

ct1.8t4me
04-04-2007, 10:28 AM
Not sure how much power an inlet pipe is going to give, but it will prevent the suction of the turbo from crushing the stock pipe - particularly if it has gone soft over the last 10 years...I would have to think that the build of the inlet pipe lends to smoother surfaces which may yield some minimal gains, but I think the main idea is that it won't be crushed. And if you ask why bother? Well if you go to replace your stock pipe and pay for the dealer part you are well on your way to paying for an APR version so why not have the piece of mind while you are in there...

Oricle
04-04-2007, 10:32 AM
Not sure how much power an inlet pipe is going to give, but it will prevent the suction of the turbo from crushing the stock pipe - particularly if it has gone soft over the last 10 years...I would have to think that the build of the inlet pipe lends to smoother surfaces which may yield some minimal gains, but I think the main idea is that it won't be crushed. And if you ask why bother? Well if you go to replace your stock pipe and pay for the dealer part you are well on your way to paying for an APR version so why not have the piece of mind while you are in there...

If I ever did replace it I'd deffinatly go with an aftermarket inlet. I'm mainly looking at seeing dynos to see if there is much of gain for the Inlet, and how restrictive the stock cat really is.

maxspeed
04-04-2007, 10:37 AM
once you move onto turbos larger than a k03 the stock inlet really aint gonna cut it.

Oricle
04-04-2007, 10:42 AM
once you move onto turbos larger than a k03 the stock inlet really aint gonna cut it.

Already passed it to a BT. But I'm pushing the numbers ATP claims without the inlet pipe, and I'm just curious to see how big of a difference it'd make.

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 10:46 AM
once you move onto turbos larger than a k03 the stock inlet really aint gonna cut it.

The stock inlet pipe wont fit anything bigger then a K04. The after market inlet pipes or hoses are smooth on the inside allowing for a better flow for the air being sucked in. Just think of what the difference is between a river bottom that is smooth vs tons of rocks. Less turbulance = better air flow.


034 has a very nice samco setup for the BT's.

You wont really find any dyno data because putting a car on a dyno just to test a stock TIP vs an aftermarket is just not cost effective seeing that the dyno time will cost more then the parts.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 11:09 AM
I hope this image isnt too big, but I though it would be had to read small, This in on 22psi of boost (according to ATP)
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/ELIMRS-STOCKCAT93vsTestPipe.gif
Heres what the VES looks like, it just opens the exhaust wide open when you shower down on it, I am sure it would scare the hell out of other people when it opens, I may get one and put it in my downpipe
As far as the TIP I think the basic larger diameter is were your going to see your HP gains
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/cutout_evolution.jpg

superman_006
04-04-2007, 11:19 AM
BTW there is a electronic one in our classified section for $200 shipped, which might be more what some may want, you could put it on a toggle switch so you can be steathy at times

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 11:31 AM
BTW there is a electronic one in our classified section for $200 shipped, which might be more what some may want, you could put it on a toggle switch so you can be steathy at times

They all suck and tend to leak. The electric ones fall apart because the motor gets hot from the exhaust.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 11:34 AM
How about the older cable operated ones?

Don Supreme
04-04-2007, 11:48 AM
The stock cat is killer..... You should definitely do something about it!

I went from stock cat to TP on my elim and WOW big diff.


By the way,

POST YOUR DYNO CHART!

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:11 PM
The stock cat is killer..... You should definitely do something about it!

I went from stock cat to TP on my elim and WOW big diff.


By the way,

POST YOUR DYNO CHART!

Stock injectors, stock MAF, 5 bar FPR. For pushing close to 250WHP. I was very impressed. With a TP, and going to the race valve for a better boost curve, I should be deffinatly up in the 260W HP's on 91 octane.

I was right above 240WHP before I quit(didn't wanna keep spending money on the dyno) and it kept going up as the ECU adapted to it.

I'll try to upload a dyno run and my a/f ratio.

seank
04-04-2007, 01:21 PM
what are the specs on the setup you are running?

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:24 PM
what are the specs on the setup you are running?

GTRS.
3" Exhaust
K&N Panel Filter
91 octane
5 Bar FPR
Inmotion Tune

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:25 PM
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u53/franklinjh/dyno.jpg


On my paper the Smoothing is fixed and it looks a lot less spikey. I'll be swapping out my n75 valve for a race valve for a more steady curve.

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:32 PM
I don't have a air/fuel curve picture except for the print out.
But the A/F goes like this:

2200 RPM-14:1
3000-5500 RPM-13:1
5500+-10:1

Running rich top end right there so when I go to a Test Pipe/Race Valve/ECU Adapts better/Warmer days I wont have to worry about leaning out.

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 01:33 PM
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u53/franklinjh/dyno.jpg


On my paper the Smoothing is fixed and it looks a lot less spikey. I'll be swapping out my n75 valve for a race valve for a more steady curve.

Spikes like that suggest timing pull.

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:35 PM
Spikes like that suggest timing pull.

Actually I know in a run he did pull timing back a bit, but ended up adding it back. I don't know which run that was.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 01:41 PM
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129253

3" testpipe $100

Could the spiking like that be from the OEM clutch slipping?

Does the accleration come on smooth at WFO

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:45 PM
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129253

3" testpipe $100

Could the spiking like that be from the OEM clutch slipping?

Does the accleration come on smooth at WFO

I got a pipe about to start getting made for it this weekend, while I'm getting my body kit done. [;)]

A big reason he said is the stock N75 valve isn't good. He said go to the Race valve and it will hold boost a lot better, and I wont see near the spiking it shows on that graph. Yep it comes on very smooth at WOT. I'm assuming thats pretty much what WFO means?

I have a stage 3 clutch I will install soon. I'm just tired of working on it after doing the GTRS swap. I'll end up installing my FMIC and the clutch at the same time.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 01:49 PM
Yeah the Stock N75 is pretty slow, did you just adapt your turbo inlet hose?

WFO = Wide Fu#king Open

Oricle
04-04-2007, 01:50 PM
Yeah the Stock N75 is pretty slow, did you just adapt your turbo inlet hose?

WFO = Wide Fu#king Open


The turbo inlet hose didn't have a problem fitting over at all. IIRC the only BT's that had a problem with the stock inlet fitting over was the GT2x.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:02 PM
My GT2X has a 2 1/2" inlet housing on it, The K03 is around 1 1/2" (I think), But I dont think my houseing is the regular GT2X inlet, I cut the stock house back to where its about 2 1/4 and used a 2 1/2" elbow and a sleeve

Oricle
04-04-2007, 02:13 PM
From the pictures comparing the GTRS to the k03 it looks like the inlet is the exact same size. I don't remember what they looked like when I pulled the k03.

On the ATP's website you can tell the GT2X's inlet is way bigger than the GTRS/K03.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:18 PM
He changed out my eprom socket so I can change programs, and tweek it. He's sending a copy of the data from your ecu, and 6 diffrent chips with diffrent programs on it. Its was $400 all together and that included vag-com cable and the full ross-tech, and shipping twice

Oricle
04-04-2007, 02:20 PM
He changed out my eprom socket so I can change programs, and tweek it. He's sending a copy of the data from your ecu, and 6 diffrent chips with diffrent programs on it. Its was $400 all together and that included vag-com cable and the full ross-tech, and shipping twice

Charged me $300 for my custom dyno tune. That includes coming out to my house twice, giving me a brand new stock chip so I could sell my APR chip, than all the dyno tuning.

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 02:21 PM
From the pictures comparing the GTRS to the k03 it looks like the inlet is the exact same size. I don't remember what they looked like when I pulled the k03.

There is no way the GTRS has the same size inlet as a K03. If it did that would be a HUGE flow restiction.


Here is a pic, do they look the same size to you?

http://www.wisptech.net/images/misc/1.jpg

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:24 PM
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/k03k04_eliminators.jpg

Oricle
04-04-2007, 02:25 PM
LOL. I just sent the pic of them compared from my phone.
Just looked a lot closer in size on my phone.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u53/franklinjh/compared.jpg

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:28 PM
Charged me $300 for my custom dyno tune. That includes coming out to my house twice, giving me a brand new stock chip so I could sell my APR chip, than all the dyno tuning.

Deffinatly a sweet price, not to mention he made 250awhp with stock cat, stock injectors, stock intercooler, stock intet hose on mid-octain gas [up] and that turbo inlet resrictor?????

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 02:29 PM
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/k03k04_eliminators.jpg

That is a full GT28rs with the inlet showing. It is a bit larger then the GTrs elim inlet.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Mike, How big is the inlet on the GTRS elm, the one you posted was 4" on my sceen, LOL

Did you see his pic, his has got a reducer to 1 1/2" It looks like the flange you've got laying infront of the K03

Oricle
04-04-2007, 02:39 PM
Mike, How big is the inlet on the GTRS elm, the one you posted was 4" on my sceen, LOL

Did you see his pic, his has got a reducer to 1 1/2" It looks like the flange you've got laying infront of the K03


[confused]
I was kind of wondering about that inlet. I ordered this shit from renn-art and when I got it the turbine blades were fucked up looking a little, like it was used.

I'd never go through them again. Took them over a month to get this thing to me. I was thinking about ordering that inlet pipe from the GB if it was anyone other than them.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Dude thats like 20+ HP maybe 30+

superman_006
04-04-2007, 02:43 PM
Thats like me tring to run and breath only though my nose

Oricle
04-04-2007, 02:44 PM
Dude thats like 20+ HP maybe 30+

[up]
Friday I'll probally end up taking this up on a lift and do the clutch along with the FMIC, plugs, fuel filter, n75 valve and redyno it next week. I'm really worried about running the stock injector past these levels, It's really rich top end though so I'm figuring I should be fine.

My goal orginally was stock injectors on 250HP, which I was 10 HP off of. I know I wont have a problem hitting it, I have no doubt I can hit 270-280WHP on 93 octane, but I don't think my injectors could handle it. Maybe an adjustable 5.5FPR?


I'm thinking of going to 380cc injectors but I don't know if I want to shell out another $250 for injectors and another $300 for dyno time, and $115 for dyno usage.

seank
04-04-2007, 03:04 PM
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Vehicle%20Specific/ATP-VVW-151_450.jpg

this is how the ATP elims come so you can use the stock TIP but they have the option to upgrade to a 3" inlet, which would def make a huge improvement.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Vehicle%20Specific/ATP-VVW-153_450.jpg

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-153&Category_Code=BCS

so much for talking about HFC's and testpipes[:D]

Oricle
04-04-2007, 03:06 PM
So that adapter inlet that is on mine. If I unbolt it off, I can attach an adapter to my inlet hose that makes it so it's 3" and the normal size inlet on the GTRS is 3" correct?

seank
04-04-2007, 03:08 PM
well yes but you need to buy the 3" adapter and then you will also need a new TIP. just use that link that would be everything you need its only like $250

superman_006
04-04-2007, 03:39 PM
If you already rich, I wouldnt mess with anything on the fuel system. I would say rich enough to add more air at top end by Doing the upgrade to 3"

Don Supreme
04-04-2007, 04:54 PM
^ Are you nuts? He probably at like 110% duty cycle. The injectors are probably just pumping like garden hose and no longer pulsating like they should.... not to mention he is running the stock fuel pump @ 5 bar + xxx boost. How much boost were you running on that dyno?

Oricle,

The reason your inlet looks the same is because you did not use the 3" inlet (Not really 3"... anyway thats another story)

superman_006
04-04-2007, 05:37 PM
He is running 20psi of boost, stock injectors with 5bar fpr, stock cat


And yes I can be classified as nuts

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 06:14 PM
He is running 20psi of boost, stock injectors with 5bar fpr, stock cat


And yes I can be classified as nuts


That means at 20psi his fuel pressure is 92.5psi. At that pressure the fuel pump isn't flowing for shit. Most pumps dont flow rating falls on its face at 80psi, this is why everyone goes with larger injectors and a much lower base fuel pressure. Hell his fuel pressure is higher then mine, I run 40psi fuel base + 32psi boost which means my max fuel pressure is only 72psi and I use a fuel pump that has the best flow rating at 80psi.

superman_006
04-04-2007, 08:52 PM
Has anyone figured out a mathmadical equation for the larger injectors x psi = same cc as stock?

Here's the orginal post where I asked about
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128192

Oricle
04-04-2007, 09:19 PM
^ Are you nuts? He probably at like 110% duty cycle. The injectors are probably just pumping like garden hose and no longer pulsating like they should.... not to mention he is running the stock fuel pump @ 5 bar + xxx boost. How much boost were you running on that dyno?

Oricle,

The reason your inlet looks the same is because you did not use the 3" inlet (Not really 3"... anyway thats another story)

I'm happy with the tune, etc. I'll go to 380's or 440's and go back to the 4 bar if I do end up pushing closer to 280WHP, which doesn't seem to hard to do at all. I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not doubting you at all. Inmotion does know their stuff. He did own a Audi/Porsche shop for a while, etc, so I'm going to go with what he says. So far the tune seems really good.

I'm actually interested in seeing how many ms these injectors pulse on and off for at WOT. I'm going to actually scope it.

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 10:40 PM
Has anyone figured out a mathmadical equation for the larger injectors x psi = same cc as stock?

Here's the orginal post where I asked about
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128192

Here you go and there are plenty more sites that have the calcs to allow you to figure it all out.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm


Here is the one I use http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/fuelinjectors.htm
Just put in the size injectors you plan on using and it will tell you what base fuel pressure to use to match the stock injector/fpr combo.

superman_006
04-05-2007, 09:03 AM
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/superman_006/formula-3.gif

Mike, your the man [up]