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urS4
04-02-2007, 01:07 PM
Well, my quest for the perfect turbo for my daily driver is over. I have a K04 equipped 99.5 A4 1.8 tqm that also has an E-code FMIC, 5.0 bar FPR, E-code TP, and AMS SW. Its a very nice combo but here at altitude, Denver area, the K04 runs out of gas early. I drove the car at sea level and would have been happy with that but when I got home it wasn't enough. I was looking at GTRS, 2781 and other variants but couldn't quite settle on what to do. I had made up my mind to go with Chris Tapp for the tune and during a conversation with him, I had a revelation. My mechanic is Dave Jones, who several years ago when he was with ASW, built the black B6 Avant that did very well in the Eurotuner 1.8t Challenge. I remembered he had some left over pieces from that build and this is where it gets interesting. He had a Gunther of Sportec specced tubular manifold and a Sportec built K-16 turbo leftover from that build. These 2 pieces were built to go together to feature 360 crank hp with a full boost spool by 3000 rpm. Here they are:

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/15349Snakes_and_turbo-1-med.jpg

The manifold will be cleaned up by Saridea and coated black

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/15349Snakes_and_turbo-2-med.jpg

The compressor housing is off to the EPA Super Fund Site for polishing and the turbine housing will also be coated in black. The uberness of CNC perfection.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/15349Sportec_wheel-med.jpg

In addition I'm adding a 90mm Lightning MAF, Siemens 60lb injectors, an adjustable FPR with gauge, Tapp street and race programs, a larger FMIC with 2 1/2" piping from turbo to TB, custom downpipe and turbo intake, and full time wideband air/fuel ratio system. Am I missing anything? Thanks.

A4quattro1.8T
04-02-2007, 01:40 PM
That looks to be the beginning of a MONSTER! When I get tired of your K04, I will definitely give you a call for some big turbo pointers.

mike-2ptzero
04-02-2007, 02:01 PM
Looks good. What do you expect to make with that at high alt? I dont remember a B6 but it might have been in the first 1.8t challenge which was held on the east coast.

BTW got the money, fmic should ship out later this week.

urS4
04-02-2007, 04:52 PM
That looks to be the beginning of a MONSTER! When I get tired of your K04, I will definitely give you a call for some big turbo pointers.

I think I'm gonna have to dial the boost back a little so that it stays together as my daily driver. My plan is to run 18 lbs on pump and 22 lbs on 100 octane.

urS4
04-02-2007, 04:54 PM
Looks good. What do you expect to make with that at high alt? I dont remember a B6 but it might have been in the first 1.8t challenge which was held on the east coast.

BTW got the money, fmic should ship out later this week.

My hope is to get 280 ATW here at altitude. It was the first Challenge on the East Coast. Dave Jones, ASW and Sportec also teamed up for the 2.7 S4 Challenge and did very well in that competition. Thanks for the shipping update.

maxspeed
04-02-2007, 05:14 PM
[up] for the road less travelled.

jrodmk2
04-02-2007, 05:26 PM
that b6 was the one with the intake manifold also .... correct....
i likey.

urS4
04-02-2007, 05:53 PM
that b6 was the one with the intake manifold also .... correct....
i likey.

Yes, it had a similar manifold but it was Inconnel and much more expensive. This was going to be the street manifold and turbo.

urS4
04-03-2007, 05:04 AM
that b6 was the one with the intake manifold also .... correct....
i likey.

Sorry, I misread your question. Yes, it also had a very trick custom intake manifold.

AudiA4_20T
04-03-2007, 06:47 AM
wow 360chp by 3000rpms sign me up lol

Don Supreme
04-03-2007, 07:33 AM
He didn't say he would produce 360HP by 3000 RPM, he said it would fully spool by 3000 RPM. You should be looking @ the torque @ 3k not the HP.

Peak HP will probably be somewhere around 6K.

P.S. It looks like you still need a flange welded to that mani.

A new path, I can't wait to see the end result.

mike-2ptzero
04-03-2007, 07:56 AM
He didn't say he would produce 360HP by 3000 RPM, he said it would fully spool by 3000 RPM. You should be looking @ the torque @ 3k not the HP.

Peak HP will probably be somewhere around 6K.

P.S. It looks like you still need a flange welded to that mani.

A new path, I can't wait to see the end result.



Need a flange welded to the manifold?

urS4
04-03-2007, 08:02 AM
He didn't say he would produce 360HP by 3000 RPM, he said it would fully spool by 3000 RPM. You should be looking @ the torque @ 3k not the HP.

Peak HP will probably be somewhere around 6K.

P.S. It looks like you still need a flange welded to that mani.

A new path, I can't wait to see the end result.

A very good observation. Correct on the hp figures. I use a shop in Denver called Saridea.

http://www.saridea.com/index.html

They have fabricated my new tubular exhaust manifold for my real Monstah, the 93 urS4. Its pictured on their website. They will be cleaning up the welds on the Sportec manifold and fabricating the rear flange/downpipe. They'll also fab the charge air piping for my new FMIC. The extra pipe you see in the picture was being used to prop up the manifold/turbo. The turbo itself has an internal WG.

mike-2ptzero
04-03-2007, 08:05 AM
A very good observation. Correct on the hp figures. I use a shop in Denver called Saridea.

http://www.saridea.com/index.html

They have fabricated my new tubular exhaust manifold for my real Monstah, the 93 urS4. Its pictured on their website. They will be cleaning up the welds on the Sportec manifold and fabricating the rear flange/downpipe. They'll also fab the charge air piping for my new FMIC. The extra pipe you see in the picture was being used to prop up the manifold/turbo. The turbo itself has an internal WG.



What does your urS4 make for power?

Don Supreme
04-03-2007, 08:16 AM
Mike - you got PM.

urS4
04-03-2007, 08:32 AM
What does your urS4 make for power?

The jury is still out. In the midst of tuning the AEM standalone, a Bosch plug came apart and did some major damage. The car has been down for 5 months as I go through a new iteration that includes a new Big Valve and adjustable Big Cam Head, the Saridea manifold and a new Innovative Turbo Systems Ceramic Ball bearing turbo, F271. The engine itself is also being rebuilt. Its a short stroke stroker 2.5 liter that revs quick. I have a plethora of other mods that are too numerous to list. Before the lights went out it put down 450hp/560tq ATW with 12 lbs of boost. Things were just getting interesting. Those numbers were with a GT35R turbo. As the plug went through the turbine section of the 35R it did some damage which can't be fixed or rebuilt so that turbo is now an expensive paper weight. That's also part of the reason I have shyed away from GT series Garretts. My new K-16 based KKK and the ITS F271 can both be rebuilt.

Don Supreme
04-03-2007, 08:46 AM
All these plugs messing up motors.....

I hate when plugs and lack of fueling mess up motors..... such a waste.

urS4
04-03-2007, 09:12 AM
All these plugs messing up motors.....

I hate when plugs and lack of fueling mess up motors..... such a waste.

As part of my due diligence, Saridea is welding 5 EGT bungs, one for each cylinder, to the new manifold. That'll give us the ability to monitor the burn in each cylinder. I have sworn off the Bosch plugs.

mike-2ptzero
04-03-2007, 09:39 AM
Thats weird for a bosch plug to come apart at such low boost. Could it have been just a tune issue in that 1 cylinder? I run bosch plugs making 500+whp and I know javad does too in his 600+whp 90.

urS4
04-03-2007, 01:55 PM
The plug in question is the OEM plug that came with the car new, Bosch F5DPOR. THere have been several cases of these things failing in the AAN comunity on BT cars. I should have mentioned that at the time of failure I was running 18 lbs of boost. I just hadn't gotten the car back to the dyno.

JeffM1587
04-03-2007, 02:04 PM
hey urs4 was your s4 at 3zero3 this winter? i remember meeting a guy there that had a urs4 with a killer bt set up on it jw if it was you.

pac1085
04-03-2007, 02:27 PM
The plug in question is the OEM plug that came with the car new, Bosch F5DPOR. THere have been several cases of these things failing in the AAN comunity on BT cars. I should have mentioned that at the time of failure I was running 18 lbs of boost. I just hadn't gotten the car back to the dyno.

Really? Interesting. I've heard alot of good things about these plugs, I even ran them in my car with the K04 fora while, only problem I had is that they fouled out easily.

urS4
04-03-2007, 03:06 PM
hey urs4 was your s4 at 3zero3 this winter? i remember meeting a guy there that had a urs4 with a killer bt set up on it jw if it was you.

Yeah, Dave Jones left 3R and went to Saridea. My car was there.

JeffM1587
04-03-2007, 03:21 PM
man you have a nice looking car. i never got to know dave because i only worked there over the summer

urS4
04-03-2007, 04:19 PM
Dave really knows Audis and Porsches. The urS is about to get back together after taking the winter off. That's why I have this silver A4.

Wizard-of-OD
04-03-2007, 08:54 PM
That looks to be the beginning of a MONSTER.

KKK K-16 a monster?Ha...
If your running anything greater than 3071R then your given BT status,otherwise its just an upgrade.To the OP,if I were you I would change the flange to a regular T3 flange or buy a kKK/GT hybrid from 034 motorsport.Garret turbochargers are more efficient than there KKK equivalents.

bitterchild
04-03-2007, 09:18 PM
b5 and b6 engine bays are different, make sure that manifold fits first

urS4
04-04-2007, 05:04 AM
KKK K-16 a monster?Ha...
If your running anything greater than 3071R then your given BT status,otherwise its just an upgrade.To the OP,if I were you I would change the flange to a regular T3 flange or buy a kKK/GT hybrid from 034 motorsport.Garret turbochargers are more efficient than there KKK equivalents.

The K-16 that you laugh at was a custom one-off build by Sportec. Is it because you're the Wizard-of-ODD that you became the keeper of BT status? Thanks for your your advice on Garretts but I'll stay with my puny ST K-16 variant. Javad must be very proud of all your 034 links on your sig.

urS4
04-04-2007, 05:07 AM
b5 and b6 engine bays are different, make sure that manifold fits first

Thanks for the caution. We did a test fit and the only challenge is the intake plumbing. Saridea will be fabing a custom inlet pipe.

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 06:56 AM
KKK K-16 a monster?Ha...
If your running anything greater than 3071R then your given BT status,otherwise its just an upgrade.To the OP,if I were you I would change the flange to a regular T3 flange or buy a kKK/GT hybrid from 034 motorsport.Garret turbochargers are more efficient than there KKK equivalents.

Well BT status is anything above k03/K04, I think anything that is GT30 or larger should just be BAT(Big ASS Turbo)or HT(Huge Turbo). [:D]


The K16 is about the same size as a GT28.

94jedi
04-04-2007, 07:12 AM
Well BT status is anything above k03/K04, I think anything that is GT30 or larger should just be BAT(Big ASS Turbo)or HT(Huge Turbo). [:D]


Agreed, I like to call gt30 or larger "BT+" or "Stage 3+" [up]

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 07:26 AM
Agreed, I like to call gt30 or larger "BT+" or "Stage 3+" [up]

Well stage 3+ wont do since that would be a full GT28rs/71'r. A built engine has been called a "stage 4", so someone just needs to come up with something for a 30+ turbo. So your BT+ would good.

Don Supreme
04-04-2007, 08:13 AM
I like BAT (Big Ass Turbo) [:D]

urS4
04-04-2007, 08:26 AM
I like BAT (Big Ass Turbo) [:D]

I gotta agree with you Mr Don. BAT sounds real BAD to me ;>) I think Mr Zero has a winnah!

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 08:28 AM
I gotta agree with you Mr Don. BAT sounds real BAD to me ;>) I think Mr Zero has a winnah!


Well then BAT it is. [:D]

Wizard-of-OD
04-04-2007, 08:51 AM
The K-16 that you laugh at was a custom one-off build by Sportec. .
So?
Did the Black B6 Wagon that you got the manifold from win the ET challenge?No...
I have never been a fan of KKK turbo's after owning a couple.Say the turbo got damaged you would be SOL to find a replacement.I was only giving you my humble advice assuming that you would probably want to upgrade in the future but


Is it because you're the Wizard-of-ODD that you became the keeper of BT status? Thanks for your your advice on Garretts but I'll stay with my puny ST K-16 variant. Javad must be very proud of all your 034 links on your sig.
if you want to resort to sand box like remarks then you picked the wrong candidate.

for the record I am not keeper of BT status,simply BAT status...(thanks Mike).
Let me know how it works out for you.Would love to see a comparison between this and a GT28RS.

Please click on the links in my sig when you go part shopping.I am sure Javad would appreciate it.
Enjoy

94jedi
04-04-2007, 09:09 AM
Well then BAT it is. [:D]


Well then, I've been overruled!![mad] [:D]

gt30 or larger = BAT status. sounds good to me!

dozentrio
04-04-2007, 09:16 AM
wish I had a BAT...

really, what are the main issues with BT? A manifold, software, fueling, and the turbo? What are the basics that -must- be had for the car to function?

Wizard-of-OD
04-04-2007, 09:29 AM
what are the main issues with BT? A manifold, software, fueling, and the turbo? What are the basics that -must- be had for the car to function?
Depends on the type of set up you want.If you want to run a MAF then going too large a turbo (GT30R+) becomes difficult in terms of turbocharger location and MAF implimentation.The nicest MAF + BT implimentation I have seen was the Dahlback kit.
If you are running MAP (using an SEM) system then the hardware department become alot simpler as you eliminate the MAF and place the turbocharger wherever you desire.The manifold I had built was designed for a GT42R turbocharger.

The basics?If your running anything bigger than a GT28R then look into upgrading engine internals especially the connecting rods which have been proven to pop around 350bhp.Software/fueling is dependant on you the end user...if you want to maintain your OEM set up then your best bet is to find a chip tuner who has the software to support your set up.If you have the know how and want MORE out of your set up then hands down SEM is the choice for you.

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 09:41 AM
I always thought Dahlback tuned their BT setups without a maf, basicly just using speed density(rpm and throttle position based).

urS4
04-04-2007, 12:39 PM
So?
Did the Black B6 Wagon that you got the manifold from win the ET challenge?No...
I have never been a fan of KKK turbo's after owning a couple.Say the turbo got damaged you would be SOL to find a replacement.I was only giving you my humble advice assuming that you would probably want to upgrade in the future but

if you want to resort to sand box like remarks then you picked the wrong candidate.

for the record I am not keeper of BT status,simply BAT status...(thanks Mike).
Let me know how it works out for you.Would love to see a comparison between this and a GT28RS.

Please click on the links in my sig when you go part shopping.I am sure Javad would appreciate it.
Enjoy

I don't think anyone WON that Challenge because of sponsorship/rules issues. I do know that it won the Best Engineered Award and the Autocross event. I think they also won the dyno event even though they, not Dave Jones he wasn't there, forgot to turn off the ESP. If I remember correctly, and that's a stretch since I just turned 60, they had the best area under the torque graph but not the highest number. That's what I'm after here is area under the double hump. BTW your humble advise didn't sound so humble and that's why I responded. I won't be upgrading in the future because this is after all my daily driver. I have my urS4 for the fun stuff.

Don Supreme
04-04-2007, 12:43 PM
60 huh? I hope I am still doing this stuff @ 60......

60 = bigger budget = MORE HP!

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 01:13 PM
60 huh? I hope I am still doing this stuff @ 60......

60 = bigger budget = MORE HP!

That depends on when you plan on having kids and by the time you are 60 if you plan on putting them thru college.

urS4
04-04-2007, 01:29 PM
That depends on when you plan on having kids and by the time you are 60 if you plan on putting them thru college.

My wife and I started early. We've been married for 39 years and have 2 grown daughters and 3 grandsons. The oldest is 10.5 and this silver car could be his if I'm ready to give it up when he turns 16. Their dad is a physician so I won't have to worry about college for the boys.

94jedi
04-04-2007, 01:49 PM
Wow....A 60 y.o. Audi enthusiast!! That's almost as impressive as you being married for 39 years! Special congrats on that feat. You don't see that kind of commitment today. My parents have been married for 31 and I've been married for 5 and I intend to make it as long as I live. You got lucky on the college thing, I hope I can put my unborn kids through college, let alone grandkids.

BING
04-04-2007, 01:51 PM
The K-16 that you laugh at was a custom one-off build by Sportec. Is it because you're the Wizard-of-ODD that you became the keeper of BT status? Thanks for your your advice on Garretts but I'll stay with my puny ST K-16 variant. Javad must be very proud of all your 034 links on your sig.

Hap mit der comedic relief....

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 02:13 PM
Wow....A 60 y.o. Audi enthusiast!! That's almost as impressive as you being married for 39 years! Special congrats on that feat. You don't see that kind of commitment today. My parents have been married for 31 and I've been married for 5 and I intend to make it as long as I live. You got lucky on the college thing, I hope I can put my unborn kids through college, let alone grandkids.

I am 39, been married for 12 but together for 20. We hope to put our son thru college but thats a long time from now since he is only 17weeks old. [:D]

94jedi
04-04-2007, 02:29 PM
Wow Mike!!! you're 39??? didn't know you were that old!!! haha..don't take that the wrong way. it's just nice to see enthusiasts at the other end of the age spectrum. I turn 30 this year so I'm getting there!

mike-2ptzero
04-04-2007, 02:36 PM
Wow Mike!!! you're 39??? didn't know you were that old!!! haha..don't take that the wrong way. it's just nice to see enthusiasts at the other end of the age spectrum. I turn 30 this year so I'm getting there!

Dont worry I wont, but thats most likely because I look 29-30[:D]

Don Supreme
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
I thought Mike would be in his 40s (Based on his mod budget and some other things).

BING
04-04-2007, 05:25 PM
I will be 39 this summer , daughter is 19 months but at 10 months she started playing with car parts!!!http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/11704Shelby_Turbo.jpg

94jedi
04-05-2007, 06:17 AM
I thought Mike would be in his 40s (Based on his mod budget and some other things).

By that measure I would be 12 and have a paper route for my mod budget!!! The sad thing is that I'm almost 30 yet my mod budget is very "12 year old-ish!"[:(]

mike-2ptzero
04-05-2007, 06:26 AM
I thought Mike would be in his 40s (Based on his mod budget and some other things).

LOL, thats when the sugar momma comes in handy[;)] But it also helps that I have been self employed for nearly 20 years.[:D]