in a really tough situation need some help/advice please... no jokes on this thread.

[MYBMW05]

long story short. there is a friend of mine whom i loaned him 1600 a couple weeks ago cuz hes a gambling junkee and needed money for car payment. insurance, rent, etc... he promised that he would pay me back when he got his tax return check for 2200. he just calls me today and tells me that he got his tax return yesterday for 2200, and lost it all gambling.

i had known the guy for 3 years and had loaned him money before in like smaller amounts between 200 and 500 and hes paid me back on time and this time he really fcked me over. i trust himed as a friend and like didnt make him sign a contract stipulating when to pay me back because i didnt think hed be desperate enough to fck me over like this.

im not even sure i can sue him at this point because i have no written documentaiton and like its my word vs his...he tells me now that he can pay me about 300 every paycheck (2 weeks) until the amount is completed. if i sue, and if he goes to court and lies i wouldnt even know what i could do. Yeah i realize it was probably a bad idea to lend someone $1600 in the first place, and im really looking for some good advice on what to do right now, not grief. any suggestions?

[dukez]

Read this book:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/074349282X.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Honestly though, theres nothing you can do at this point without pissing him off or ruining your relationship (even more). If you sue, at least you know he'll be legally inclined to pay you back. If you keep nagging, hes going to get this mindset, "man fuck, quit asking me bitch, i'll pay your monkey ass back when i feel like it."

[Kievskiy]

i say talk to him like friend to frien but seriously, like you gave him money when he needed and now you need them back, basicly make him understand that in this case the friendship can be over and its his choice now, and also Record the conversation! if he will say paymentsthen do the contract, tell you the trith , you dont need friends like this...sorry if offended you.
...

[rotaryracer]

wow, what a dick. do you need the money right now or can you deal with the 300 dollars every 2 weeks. Because if you can deal with it, I say just keep on him really really strong like a bookie. That really sucks though. Going to court would also cost you more money.

[10MPG]

You know, this happened to me when I was younger - long story short, I'm now one friend less and frankly I can care less. If he respects you as a friend, he would've paid you back.

Just my 2 cents

[Quiet_1.8TQM]

Record the conversation!
...

Can't do that in the state of California unless both parties agree...so if it's you covertly recording, it's inadmissible

[rotaryracer]

he lives in Arizona :] ... game on :]

[wackoo]

Right now, you need to take the payments of 300 bucks. 5 weeks and it should be done. If he doesn't pay, ask him to sell some of his stuff on ebay or something to pay you.

Dont sue him. If you do, he will never pay. That gives him a reason not to

[rotaryracer]

he can pay me about 300 every paycheck (2 weeks) until the amount is completed

he will get $300 ever 2 weeks not every week. so it will take closer to two months rather then 5 weeks

[akademiks120]

dood...im in the exact situation you are in. I had a friend who had a warrant for her arrest because there was some issues with bail bonds and stuff like that. long story short, I had to loan out $5,000. Its been about a year now, and I still havent been paid back. It pisses me off all the time, but I just keep in contact and keep reminding that I'm there. Theres not much to do, especially when you know the person doesnt have the money.....

[speedydragon]

did you tell him when to pay you back when you loaned the money out? because there is such thing as Verbal Contract! both parties must agree on the contents of the contract. From what I've learned in school, verbal contracts are just as useful and strong as regular contracts. I'm taking a Pre-Law class in my high school right now, and I would never thought I'd actually use any of the infromation i learned in that class! :D

[rotaryracer]

im not sure about the verbal contract thing, but the problem is that he just doesn't have the money. Plane and simpal. and the soonest he can get it back to him is in 5 payments of $300 with out selling stuff

[speedydragon]

I know wikipedia is not a reliable source but I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_contract i will try to dig up my notes(i'm probably even less reliable than wikipedia...i hardly pay attention in that class) and see what I have for this ^^

[VroomVroom]

Sorry to hear about this. I've come to terms with the adage that friends and money don't mix. Your friend has a serious problem and only you can decide how far to take this. I'd consider agreeing to the payback schedule, but only in writing and with the additional condition that he seek counseling. Intentional or not, his actions are a cry for help. Good luck with everything.

[A415]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I went through a similar situation with not to long ago. Did you give him cash everytime you loaned him money? If you didn't that's a big plus if not that's ok too. I took my friend to small claims for $2200.00. I brought copies of bank statements and cancelled checks and highlighted the ones that were for him. The judge asked my friend, "Were the monies for you and did you tell him that you would pay him back"?. At that moment, he had no choice but to reply with the trurth. After the judge heard his "yes" reply. Case Closed!

If he is a true friend he will give you some type of money as "Good Faith" but from your story it seems like he isn't so much concerned about your well being as he is with his.

[MYBMW05]

thanks for the support guys..

i dont necessarily need the money asap. i work and i have savings thats plenty for me to suffice and go on life without it. if he never paid me back, that wouldnt kill me. however, it is just an burden that i dont like having to deal with, a learning experience at that, and being how hes from new jeresey and im from california, i have effectively until middle of may when school gets out to collect, if not i will have to have this linger over the summer. he had the money monday, but made the decision to go gamble it all away.

if i take 300 every other week, we would be looking at a timetable of 2 1/2 months (10 weeks), which would put us dangerously close to the mid may deadline. if for whatever reason he missed a payment, we would be running into the summer. the problem is, right now, i cant believe a word he says, so even though he promised me 300 this friday, i am a bit skeptical.

and yes, the verbal agreement was the loan was to be paid back as soon as his tax return came in, which was end of month, since he filed on 2/4....

[A415]

Dude, you are so right. You just can't trust his word at all. That's real sad too. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you in the end.

[MYBMW05]

i dont want to have to deal with the legal bullsh1t and i really dont wanna have to use violence or force to try to get my money back. i feel like if i become too forceful with this guy, he will just make the decision to not pay me back and i will be forced to take some kind of action that i dont want to take.

the kid has too much pride and wont call home either, as he refuses to get his parents involved. his girlfriend is tapped out with all his bills that shes trying to pay as she gets through her schooling and bills while he gambles away everything he has. he has a $30k mazdaspeed6 and refuses to sell it to pay back my debt.

his excuse is he needs the car for work and that if he sold it since hes financing it, he wouldnt even get enough by now to pay off his loan on the car..

hopefully he will come through with 300 on friday, because id hate to have to go into his work and make a scene, but if thats what it takes for me to honestly let him know that this is seriously and owing someone money isnt a kiddy game, then im game. we shall see..

[rotaryracer]

Well i guess my advice is to just wait till Friday and see if he comes through. If he does, pay you then I would just stay on this payment plan. And if he doesn't pay up $300 dollars this friday... well then you'll have to take some sort of other action.

[Audiboy]

the kid has too much pride and wont call home either, as he refuses to get his parents involved. his girlfriend is tapped out with all his bills that shes trying to pay as she gets through her schooling and bills while he gambles away everything he has. he has a $30k mazdaspeed6 and refuses to sell it to pay back my debt.


How close are you to his family or other friends? It looks like your friend has a serious addiction and may need help. While he may not like you for doing this, you may be doing him a favor in the long run by letting his closest relatives know of the situation. Looks like he is getting away with it easy.

[spdracer53]

why don't you write a letter out stating all the facts... bullet points would be good as well... just say due to a gambling problem my friend had, i loaned him $1600. said friend was going to pay back the $1600 when tax return in the amount of $2200 was received. he gambled that away, and now can only pay me back in $300 increments every 2 weeks until the balance of $1600 is paid in full.this letter is to confirm the facts above are true.

then just have him sign the paper.

[rotaryracer]

^^^ that would be a good idea

,it couldnt ever hurt and it would just be another safty coushion, pluss it would be modivation for him to pay because he knows then you could take him to court and have proof. Or at nothing else take it to his parents if he doesnt pay. Or at least tell him you will go to his parents if he doesnt meet every payment on time every time!

[MYBMW05]

i dont have contact info for any of his parents. i know his girlfriend somewhat well, and ive met his sister once, and im sure his girlfriend doesnt even know the entire story of his demise... im not evne sure what lies hes told to her and what else he may be hiding from me. anyways i will keep u guys posted about what happens on friday and meanwhile ill try to draw up a contract and get him to sign it.

[rotaryracer]

good

[audidood]

damn that sucks. $1600 isn't a small deal either. i say give him a warning that he better pay you back. ".... or else."

[CONTROL TWO]

mr baseball bat meet mr knees...

[wnut]

sorry to point this out, but you're a fool. better to let it go and move on, by let go i mean your $1600 and your friend. Tell him he has a problem and let that be that.

you call him a 'friend' yet you doubt him, you're willing to take him to court (who does that?!), and you ask a online forum for advice? please. you made a stupid decision, live with it.

as for verbal contracts? you have to be kidding me. it's called a 'gentleman's agreement' and sure they're supposed to hold up in court like a written contract however it's your word against his unless there's a witness. in any case they're incredibly difficult to prove and he's most likely going to lose the case and be out court fees and $1600 if he persuits that route, that is unless the other guy knows no better and says, 'yeah that's all true.' even then HE HAS NO MONEY, how's he going to pay M3 back?! it's still $300 or so ever 2 weeks. Dumb situation and Dumber solution.

The one thing Law School teaches you is how to read 'between' the lines, if you're learning anything else you have a problem.

It doesn't seem like M3 cares at this point, but drawing up a contract and having him sign it. You better be willing to take him to court if he breaks contract, and as soon as this is over and done with so's your so-called friendship. I'm not sure why you stay 'friends' with stupid/problematic people to begin with.

I say chaulk it up to life; cut your losses and move on. $1600 isn't exactly chump change, but it's not worth losing sleep over either.

[audidood]

i'm in agreement with wnut. if he pays you back, then he pays you back. that's good. no borrowing money, no legal battles, no hanging around. leave that fool to sort out his own mess. just call him every other week and say "$300 time.. pay up."

[MYBMW05]

i think ur a little bit harsh there wnut, but your opinion was dually noted.

i considered him a friend because when i met him, he wasnt this way. hell he was 19 and i was 18 and there was no "gambling" because u have to be 21 to go to a casino in the state of arizona. things started to go downhill when he got kicked out of school for having 2 semesters of under a 2.0GPA (academic disqualification) and then subsequently turned 21... started gambling, went on a nice rush i think he made like 9 grand in 3 days and that hooked him. now hes in the hole, hes draggin his girlfriend down with him and hes got $1600 of my money.

youre right. if i dont get my 1600 back, i can move on. i have enough financial stability that this 1600 is not going to change my life by anymeans. i have a stable job, house, residual income, and support from family to not have to have this hinder me.

as for him, obviously if he does pay me back, i would like to still be friends with the guy. im not one to turn my back on someone who i still think is a good person, but just has a lot of problems going on as of right now...

as for why i posted this on a forum, i consulted with a couple of buddies who are members of audizine who suggested this, so it was worth a try. what have i got to lose? im not very knowledgeable about the lawyer-based concepts of this situation so it was for me to attain some knowledge about my rights and options legally.

i just talked to him and he refuses to sign a contract. he says that he has too much going on in his life as of right now and doesnt want the contract lingering as another thing to worry about. he assures me that he will build "credit" with me by showing me that he can pay me back, beginning with friday (tomorrows) payment. so we shall see tomorrow afternoon. keep u guys posted.

[rotaryracer]

thats good that he realizes that he has to build "credit" with you.

[audidood]

money sucks. it just introduces all kinds of problems and destroys relationships.

[MYBMW05]

yeah thats good, but this guys one hell of a talker. he worked for sprint before and sold cars as well and now works for HSBC so im sure he has good people skills and is very convincing, which is i guess how he convinced me to lend him 1600 in the first place. im not normally one to lend that much money, i mean ive loaned friends numerous times like a hundred or like forty or whatever, but 1600. anyways im not gonna lose sleep over it. he told me to contact him tomorrow afternoon when i get out of class before going to work and hed give me 300 cash, so well see how that goes.

[marcus1701]

Duude your story sounds all too familiar with my friend. I had a good friend who loaned my other friend 9 grand to buy a car(I wont give names)...basically he needed a car to start his life back over b/c he was messed up w/ drugs. They both go way back and consider each other very good friends, if not best friends. Now the guy who loaned the money trusted him, and his mom's a millionaire, so what's really 9 grand to him.....so the other guy suddenly vanished. He had a deadline to pay back the money in one week, and it had been 3 days past due and he wasn't answering his phone or anything. Well what happens the loaner called me up, told me the situation and said he knew of "people." Guys that would just find him, make him pay back the money and then break his legs, or at the very least beat the crap out of him. He went hunting for this guy, his close friend. Now I know this sounds bad....like mob shit, but you have to understand the other guy was a changed person. Once you lose trust in somebody you feel betrayed and used, so yea, people were looking for him. Some point the next week he calls the guy and gives him the money. Yea....he knew the guy was pissed, but when you agree upon something, a man's word is all he has.

I also have this chic that owes me $600. She says she will pay me back when she can, and I trust her, but......when? I also had a guy that owed me $300 for 2 years but that's my best friend!......If I were you, and you were good friends with him, obviously he's a compulsive gambler, so he needs help. If you ask me your friend needs more help than you. What you should do is....notify his parents and friends he has a problem and look what he's done. I don't recommend force as the people around him should be enough pressure. Yea your in a bind....you want your money, but consider being a good friend and lettin him work out payments. Loyalty is really hard to come across these days. Hope this helps

[MYBMW05]

i would call his parents but i dont have the number. i dont want to trouble his girlfriend because i know her but not that well and im not sure if even she has the number. she probably does, but who knows what lies he told her about his financial situation and i dont want to give her as much of a headache as he has given me.

[marcus1701]

Well bro, keep close tabs on him. Obviously he isn't going to be leavin the country or anything. If it comes down to it, and you think he won't pay you're gonna have to maybe take him to court, but that's a lot of work for 1600....so just be gangster and teach him a lesson or let everyone know wut a loser he is. Another story, my dad's business partner, and guy he went to college with stole 250,000$ from their company. What a stab in the back....it was a 2 year long battle, we won....but w/ lawyer fees and what not, i think we only got back 75,000! It's the principle you know.

[wnut]

harsh or not it's not really your friend that i'm criticizing, it's you. from your posts $1600 doesn't seem like it matters all that much to you.

ie: "dude. rs4 avant is just gross. if that ever comes to the US im first on the motherfcking list."

you come across incredibly 'money arrogent' in many posts, the most recent in my memory the '$16,000 beater' thread. now...i'm not saying that $16,000 or whatever amount is a small amout or should be diverted to only the beater catagory. however i am saying that $16k did not seem like a big deal to you. so why is $1600 such a big deal? you're threating him with court action, contracts, calling his parents?! it's absolutely absurd.

i don't care about who he is or his situation. i don't care how the two of you meet or why you stay friends with him. it's like gangrene, if you don't cut it off it'll consume you. maybe you don't get this now, hell many people never get this, but it's better to cut your losses and move on. friends, ex friends, history, memories and what not.

fwiw you seem like a honest/good guy, it just looks like you have your priorities mixed up.

[MYBMW05]

its not all the money, its the principle... and the fact that if i spent 16k on what i would call a beater, at least i would be guranteed of a car. it shouldnt matter if i had more money than bill gates, its really not your business how i spend my money and whatnot. im sure bill didnt get to where he was by flushing money down the toilet, which is pretty much what this comes down to if he doesnt pay me back.

[marcus1701]

harsh or not it's not really your friend that i'm criticizing, it's you. from your posts $1600 doesn't seem like it matters all that much to you.

ie: "dude. rs4 avant is just gross. if that ever comes to the US im first on the motherfcking list."

you come across incredibly 'money arrogent' in many posts, the most recent in my memory the '$16,000 beater' thread. now...i'm not saying that $16,000 or whatever amount is a small amout or should be diverted to only the beater catagory. however i am saying that $16k did not seem like a big deal to you. so why is $1600 such a big deal? you're threating him with court action, contracts, calling his parents?! it's absolutely absurd.

i don't care about who he is or his situation. i don't care how the two of you meet or why you stay friends with him. it's like gangrene, if you don't cut it off it'll consume you. maybe you don't get this now, hell many people never get this, but it's better to cut your losses and move on. friends, ex friends, history, memories and what not.

fwiw you seem like a honest/good guy, it just looks like you have your priorities mixed up.

Like you said...you don't know how they met or even the kind of relationship they have. Dude they're friends, and with friends you always have each other's back. The guy though has a gambling problem for sure, and he doesn't seem trustworthy to me. So whether he helps his friend and stays friends or fights him over the money head on....he shouldn't just "cut his losses and move on," that's coppin out, which is bad advice since he will end up w/ no friend and no money. I think even neurosurgeons would agree that $1600 is a lot of money

[speedydragon]

people change, friends will become enemies. I understand your point though Mr. chinese bmw m3 dood, you're not looking for the money you just want the principles and respect you deserve.

wnut has a strong point too, and I somewhat agree with him, thought the points maybe coming on a lil strong/harsh

[Daddy MO]

Damn... I feel you on that man. I know folks that are like that. When they have money to pay back, they dont because that would leave them broke or near broke so they dont do it. If he is a true friend he will pay you back in installments and not miss a date. As long as your not hurting for $1600 then I would let him do payments. The main thing is to not be taken advantage of because when people like that get an inch, they take a mile.

I honestly say this, if this has put you in a situation of your own and he keeps giving you the run around even when he has the money, you need to sock his ass in the nose one time! If your all good and it aint hurtin you then give him a chance to pay back. If he does not, then you sock him in the nose.

[MYBMW05]

to my surprise, i actually got $300 from him today. hmmm.... so the debt is down to $1300.

[wackoo]

to my surprise, i actually got $300 from him today. hmmm.... so the debt is down to $1300.

At least he paid some. 1300 is not that bad now. Better than 1600. i would ask him to give you the car for now to hold.

You did him a favor to begin with. As a friend, he should pay you back. It's not like he is homeless or needs the money for something really important. Gambling is not a good enough reason to not pay. He is not a friend worth keeping.

[MYBMW05]

he cant give me his car. that would be impossible. he needs it to get to work to make money = to pay me and to pay for his rent, insurance, and car payment. i wouldnt ask for that kind of collateral, and even if i did it wouldnt happen. anyways, i guess ill wait 2 more weeks for payment #2, although it would most likely be delayed because it would fall into my spring break week*.

[Kievskiy]

hope it works out good....

[CONTROL TWO]

yeah this one time i lent some guy tree fitty for a bagel and he wouldnt pay me back, so i kicked him in the face like chuck norris and took my money in tooth fairy money lol im so creative

[Chillmode]

that's just a shitty situation in general... Friends and $$ dont mix...

I lent my buddy one of my Amplifiers for a Mobile DJ gig... and he blows the amp, doesnt' tell me... and tries to get it repaired. I ask for it over and over and over... and about 4 months later, he finally confesses that he blew my amp....

I ask him to get it back for me so I can get it repaired, and he blows me off, but lends me an amp that's way shittier than my original amp... I start to get on his ass about getting my amp back, and then he finally goes to get my amp from the repair shop... but now they lost my amp..

I tell my boy that I just want my amp back... he tries to give me a 5 year old amp back that's "better" than my old one and tries to give me a guilt trip. "I've treated you like a brother and this is how you come at me about the amp?"

So long story short, I tell him to go f*ck yourself... and get me my f*cking amp back or something that is equal in quality back... or else pay me $1k for my amp...

It's just a difficult situation when you mix business/$$$ with friends...

I did get my amp back... he ended up paying $500 for the amp... which i must admit, is way better than $1k for it.