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View Full Version : Which spekers for midbass/rear fill.



A4Shizzle
01-19-2007, 08:42 AM
I want to spend around $50-100 on the rears and get something bassy to fill the gap between the sub I will eventually get and the small front speakers. Do you guys think I should get 2 ways or just some midwoofers? Here re a few different ones I'm considering:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250074134263&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=260075577568&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

http://cgi.ebay.com/CDT-Audio-Classic-CL-6E-6-1-2-Mid-Range-Drivers-1-PAIR_W0QQitemZ150037161421QQihZ005QQcategoryZ18799 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/CDT-Audio-Classic-CL-6-6-1-2-Mid-Range-Drivers-1-PAIR_W0QQitemZ150037161481QQihZ005QQcategoryZ18799 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

If you think different speakers or some of the other CDT's that are a little more expensive would REALLY be worth it I would consider them. Just lmk what you think.

Thanks

SurferForever
01-19-2007, 11:26 AM
I sya go Blaupunk . . . I had a set and they sound great with awesome quality

A4Shizzle
01-19-2007, 02:56 PM
Blaupnkt seems nice when you spend the bucks on them, but I havn't been too impressed with their midrange decks and speakers. I listened to some blaupunkt speakers and I think infinity has the edge in sound quality for the same price. Thanks for the input. I'd still like opinions as to weather I should go midwoofer and have the rears go up to 5khz or get coaxials becuase it might smooth it out?

sandnessmj
01-19-2007, 03:33 PM
What do you have for a frontstage?

Here's my opinion on rear fill - don't have any. But if you must, go for something cheap, as it won't really enhance your sound quality, and it will pull your stage to the rear if you have a lot of midrange freq. coming from there.

The best thing I can recommend are Elemental Design's 7kv.2's. They're subs, but they can play up to about 250hz (for a three way setup). Put those in the rear deck (infinite baffle) and cross them low for sub duty (~80-100hz). This way you'll have the bass freq. that you're looking for, and it won't pull your stage back.

I ran a similar setup in an 04 Sentra - 7kv.2's in the rear deck, and edi6500's up front, all off one 4 channel amp. It wasn't the loudest system on the block, but it sounded great. I'm considering doing this in the A4, just to save trunk space.

Here's the page for the 7kv.2 (formerly eu-700):http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=33

Here's the forum discount for the same product (hurry, forum discounts are going away on 1 Feb!):
Dual 2: http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=331
Dual 4: http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?products_id=332

Calabria
01-19-2007, 03:43 PM
my friend got some CDTs, forget which modle but they sound really nice. For a mid, they put out some bass and clear at that. i like them.
i have another friend with infinitys, and they dont sound that good. pretty clear, but the lower signals arent good.

djserax313
01-20-2007, 08:41 AM
Go with Diamond audio. Real good quality and I have a pair for sale cheap here http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115123

A4Shizzle
01-21-2007, 02:49 PM
sandnessmj, you're saying to use those subs in the rear deck and not to worry about a sub in the trunk right? I was planning to run a 4ch amp to power the fronts and rears with a monoblock for a sub in the trunk. I'm thinking somewhere between 50 and 100 wrms on the 4ch and it seems like that wouldn't do the speakers you suggested justice. Should I go with a 2ch for just the fronts (5.25 2-way components which I havn't decied on yet) and run a ~400 watt monoblock for the rear deck/subs? I don't need my block to know I have a system, I'd rather have clean sound. Sorry for not getting back to this sooner. Good to see your plug worked djserax!

sandnessmj
01-21-2007, 04:22 PM
I gave each 7kv.2 around 75Wrms and they sounded great. They don't need a whole lot when run infinite baffle. You could give them more, however, but I'd be careful with the gains if you give each ~200W.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of that setup - I might have to do that again...

Jason84
01-21-2007, 04:56 PM
it depends what you want really... alot of speakers dont have alot of mid in just freeair trunks. if you made boxes for the rears it would help out alot but that also takes up alot of space.

my rear speakers are $1000 as well as all the other ones. but i LOVE the way they sound. they are boston Z6 components. ive also got a 5.1 setup in my car though. so rears still make a big diff to me rather then just a regular stereo mode.

my whole setup in my car with all the electronics is around $10k+ retail and im still working on it... $2700 of that is just front/rear/center channel speakers

b00st
01-21-2007, 09:24 PM
i have the same problem...i've been looking for a midbass speaker for a long time. i have boston acoustics all the way around....just a lot of highs and mids. i didn't want to through in my subs anymore and do the whole thing again. just a little something. i have a pair of phoenix gold xmax 10s. with phoenix MS2125 and M44 sitting in the garage. both amps cost ~1000 in their hayday...but its a lot of weight....the speakers, box, amps....i wanna get away from that and just find some midbass to add next to my bostons.

97audia4
01-21-2007, 09:27 PM
The alpines and Jl's 6 1/2 work real well thats what im running it sounds nice even though they arent amp

b00st
01-21-2007, 10:32 PM
Do you get that sound of bass? maybe like the bose stereo? I'll thow my smaller phoenix gold amp at them....i'm just looking for a little something...what i got doesn't cut it. i have no bass what so ever. and i don't want to add my subs in there. i don't want that weight.

b00st
01-21-2007, 10:42 PM
i'm gonna looking into these JL 6W0 DRIVER 4.5lbs each....thats what i'm talking about.

this also seems great but not out yet.
6W3v3
Nominal Diameter: 6.5 in. (165 mm)
Continuous Power Handling: 125 W
One-Way Linear Excursion (Xmax): 0.35 in. (8.9 mm)
Nominal Impedance: Single 4 ohm or Single 8 ohm
Mounting Depth: 4.25 in. (108 mm)
Sealed Enclosure Recommendation: 0.18 cu.ft. (5.1 liters)
Ported Enclosure Range: 0.20-0.30 cu.ft. (5.7-8.5 liters)


Available: June, 2007

Jason84
01-22-2007, 12:53 AM
well there is different levels of bostons.. so it really depends which one you have and how they sound they are all very different as well as every speaker out there.

if you are looking for JUST mid no highs then youd be better off just getting like a 6.5/7" mid and ditch the coax/component type speaker. even the right 4" puts out enough midbass if you get the right one. thing is are you sure you really want mid? most people say they want mids but what they really want there sub plays its just not that loud... which can be tuned w/ a nice EQ which is usually about 80hz down. or you just might have the wrong box made for your sub...

you could even just get something like this http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1539839.2138&pid=658
you dont need to buy name brand... most of these cheap $25-50 or so mids sound 100x better then alot of name brand stuff... all your paying for is the name.

BoostTed
01-22-2007, 02:31 AM
Its all in the install. Put nice speakers in a crappy install and they will still sound crappy.

Do you want midbass or rear fill. For midbass forget the rear speakers completely and concentrate on the install on the front.

b00st
01-22-2007, 09:12 AM
i'm not installing my subs. so i have none i the car....i want something that gives me a little bass. i figure some decent midbass would do the trick....thinking about cutting holes in the rear deck for either an 8" sub or some 6.5" midbass drivers and keeping my boston coaxials next to them. the bostons are decent midrange speakers...i paid 600 for all 4 coaxial speakers. but they are older speakers....but in perfect condition.

Jason84
01-22-2007, 10:07 AM
if youd wana drive up by me when you get something i could help ya with it. make you a box and stuff im about 3 hours away from you.

ohnestly call madisound.. tell them what you want they will hook you up even set you up with a crossover for it.

the best way to get a bit more mid outa the rear is just box them up you can get those foam things but then they are usually way to small for the speakers.

sandnessmj
01-22-2007, 10:54 AM
Its all in the install. Put nice speakers in a crappy install and they will still sound crappy.

Do you want midbass or rear fill. For midbass forget the rear speakers completely and concentrate on the install on the front.

Amen brother, on both counts. In my opinion, unless you're going to have passengers riding in the back seat 75% of the time, skip the rear fill.

bass_lover1
01-22-2007, 11:57 AM
If you're lacking midbass, adding subs to your rear deck isn't going to improve your sound at all.

It may very well "bridge the gap" as you put it in terms of frequency response, but you definitely just pulled a lot of your sound stage behind you.

I don't have a sub in my car right now, and my front mids can cleanly play down to 50hz before distortion sets it, which means when I do-reinstall my sub it only will play from 1-50hz and since subbass is non directional, it will blend perfectly w/ my frontstage just the way it's supposed to sound.

Granted I have more work in my front doors than most people in here do, but everyone can get the same results as myself w/ a little time and effort.

b00st
01-22-2007, 12:23 PM
If you're lacking midbass, adding subs to your rear deck isn't going to improve your sound at all.

It may very well "bridge the gap" as you put it in terms of frequency response, but you definitely just pulled a lot of your sound stage behind you.

I don't have a sub in my car right now, and my front mids can cleanly play down to 50hz before distortion sets it, which means when I do-reinstall my sub it only will play from 1-50hz and since subbass is non directional, it will blend perfectly w/ my frontstage just the way it's supposed to sound.

Granted I have more work in my front doors than most people in here do, but everyone can get the same results as myself w/ a little time and effort.

a good setup doesn't should make it sound heavy in the rear if its done right. i used to do this for a while when i was a younger...i'm 30 now so when i was 17-21. i did stereo installs. build boxes etc. but since i've bought my audi...i just never cared. my old setup was 3 12" JL audi back by my phoenix amps. i tried 1 15 and 2 10s. then i just took out the 15. redid the setup for 2 10s.

if i recall don't most subs play down to around maybe 16hz. i thought the human ear can't even hear past 20hz. but i understand about the gap. i'm just looking for a little bass fill.....perhaps i worded it wrong. I need bass fill since my tweeters and coaxials offer nothing as far as bass. i didn't want to add too much weight to the car. no more 200lb boxes or 120lbs. my 10's weigh 30lbs each. the box for them was another 60-70lbs. my goal was for this car was to have the speed and not really add weight to it. i've done plenty of that with the rims and millteks stainless steel exhaust and body kit. so i'm looking for some bass fill thinking perhaps some midbass speakers can fill that. cuz my speaker are really for vocals and tweets.

sandnessmj
01-22-2007, 12:46 PM
If you're lacking midbass, adding subs to your rear deck isn't going to improve your sound at all.

It may very well "bridge the gap" as you put it in terms of frequency response, but you definitely just pulled a lot of your sound stage behind you.

...since subbass is non directional, it will blend perfectly w/ my frontstage just the way it's supposed to sound.

True, it's hard to keep track of this thread, because some people are talking about midbass, some are talking about substage. Putting subs of any size in the rear deck won't fix the midbass situation, you're right. However, they shouldn't pull your soundstage back if you've properly low-passed them at around 80hz or less, just like you stated - subbass is non-directional. Go a step further and get a deck that will allow you to mess with time alignment, and you're never going to notice the sound being "behind" you.

sandnessmj
01-22-2007, 12:48 PM
i thought the human ear can't even hear past 20hz.

However, with a lot of sub displacement, you can FEEL the bass - like explosions in the movie theaters, etc.

b00st
01-22-2007, 12:59 PM
no doubt you can feel it....i think my xmax were good down to 18hz. i have a few test tracks that did the 20hz test. the speakers would be jackin....but i would just throw on some DJ MAGIC MIKE.

i guess my concern is getting some bass in the car without adding more than 30lbs. so i don't know if that means midbass or subwoofer. i mean i have 1 10 but again it weighs 30lbs just for that thing. plus a box...then the amp to run that mobo weighs a ton too.

Jason84
01-22-2007, 03:29 PM
in all reality.... what does 50lbs onto your car do ?? nothing really...
they usually say every 100lbs is 1/10th off of your 1/4.

ohnestly you can add 75-100 lbs to your car and you probably wouldnt even beable to tell a difference.

dukez
01-22-2007, 03:39 PM
Maybe its been mentioned already, i didnt read the whole thread, but the stock rear speaker mounts suck ass, the magnet drops down to the trunk, so they are not enclosed. Put any (dollar amount) speaker back there with the biggest amp you want, its still going to sound like crap because of how they are. You need to make some custom enclosures or some sort of enclosed baffle to get the best sound of any speakers. Even paper speakers sound better in a confined air space.

b00st
01-22-2007, 03:41 PM
yeah rule of the is every 100lbs shaves a 1/10 off. but thats the difference bewteen a 12.9 and 13.0. maybe if i can get my 1 sub in an amp for 50lbs...i might consider it....

but yes i can tell when i add a hundred pounds on the car. when i take my rims and roll the stock 16s and take out the back seats/spare.....thats a huge difference on how fast the car moves.

i do hear your point....its a point well taken actually...but the car was meant for the street first....anything else is second. i'ma look into an install and see whats up. but the car doesn't leave the garage unless its nice out....dunno when thats gonna be.

sandnessmj
01-22-2007, 04:16 PM
Maybe its been mentioned already, i didnt read the whole thread, but the stock rear speaker mounts suck ass, the magnet drops down to the trunk, so they are not enclosed. Put any (dollar amount) speaker back there with the biggest amp you want, its still going to sound like crap because of how they are. You need to make some custom enclosures or some sort of enclosed baffle to get the best sound of any speakers. Even paper speakers sound better in a confined air space.

Not completely true. If you seal up any holes in the rear deck properly, the term for that "enclosure" or lack thereof is "infinite baffle". Most subs actually have a much more linear response when mounted that way, but power handling obviously goes down. If you don't seal up any holes in the rear deck, you'll lose output due to cancellation - a proper IB setup needs to have separation from the front of the speaker to the rear.

I know some people with custom fabbed rear decks that have 15's in them IB - loud and LOW...

dukez
01-22-2007, 04:55 PM
Understood, but i was replying directly to the threads topic, hes looking for something mid-range / mid-bass replacement speakers. My guess is thats what 6.5" speakers are for (in any car). 6.5 are hardly subs, and i havent seen an IB type. [:)]

sandnessmj
01-22-2007, 05:26 PM
Understood, but i was replying directly to the threads topic, hes looking for something mid-range / mid-bass replacement speakers. My guess is thats what 6.5" speakers are for (in any car). 6.5 are hardly subs, and i havent seen an IB type. [:)]

The speakers I linked to above are definitely subs (which also have the ability to play up to 250hz), and I ran them IB for a while and they sounded great.[:D]

13mm Xmax is hardly a midrange!

bass_lover1
01-22-2007, 07:10 PM
True, it's hard to keep track of this thread, because some people are talking about midbass, some are talking about substage. Putting subs of any size in the rear deck won't fix the midbass situation, you're right. However, they shouldn't pull your soundstage back if you've properly low-passed them at around 80hz or less, just like you stated - subbass is non-directional. Go a step further and get a deck that will allow you to mess with time alignment, and you're never going to notice the sound being "behind" you.


Low passed at 80hz wouldn't be midbass now would it ;)

80hz and below is generally considered subbass, midbass would generally take over from there and go on up to about 250-300hz...thats the region he's laking. If he lowpasses them at 80hz, then he really didn't improve the area of his stereo that he wants to now did he?


Understood, but i was replying directly to the threads topic, hes looking for something mid-range / mid-bass replacement speakers. My guess is thats what 6.5" speakers are for (in any car). 6.5 are hardly subs, and i havent seen an IB type. [:)]


cone size has little to nothing to do with weather or not it's a true subwoofer or not. Given the proper motor structure along w/ a competent installer, small drivers can be very loud.

Remember, low frequency response is a derivative of displacement...displacement is bore times stroke (bore in this case cone area and stroke cone movement)...Now it will generally take quite a bit more smaller driver's to equal say a pair or so of larger ones, but they can be just as loud.

A4Shizzle
01-23-2007, 01:38 AM
Ok, so after realizing that I had almost no idea what freq. range I wanted back there, I used the eq on my computer to help me out a bit. I'm pretty sure I don't want full range speakers now. All the talk of proper stage has basically convinced me to use a woofer or subwoofer over any 2 way speaker. Also, listening in my Mom's c220 and my A4 I fade it forward and increase the bass till I can't hear the highs or mids from the rear, but for some reason it still sounds better with a little bit of the lows comming in from the rear (maybe somewhere around 200-500hz). Is this just my lack of taste or do other people also favor that? I will upgrade the front components to some 5.25s that give me more midbass in the front, where it seems its needed. What I'm looking at now is either the elemental designs that were listed earlier or these tang band 6.5" subs (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-832). I like the idea that I could pass the tang bands higher but I'm not sure sure I want to trade that for the sensitivity, and possibly quality, of the 7kv.2s. Such a sweet deal on the EDs... I guess life is full of tough choices.

Thanks again for the help, and a little skooling.

sandnessmj
01-23-2007, 01:42 AM
Low passed at 80hz wouldn't be midbass now would it ;)

If he lowpasses them at 80hz, then he really didn't improve the area of his stereo that he wants to now did he?



Putting subs of any size in the rear deck won't fix the midbass situation, you're right.

I know - see my post above where I already admitted that.

sandnessmj
01-23-2007, 01:49 AM
Is this just my lack of taste or do other people also favor that?

Everyone has their preferences - it's not a right or wrong thing.

I tried to explain to my wife one day why I "messed with" the stereo in her car. No explanation of staging or image could satisfy her - she likes the sound to surround her and thats that.

Those TB's look like they could be a good choice as well, the only other downfall with those is less wiring options compared to the dual 2 and dual 4 7kv.2's.

bass_lover1
01-23-2007, 08:42 AM
I'd personally go with the Tang-Bands over anything ED has to offer, but thats my personal experiences. I'm sure most of the people that currently support ED weren't around a few years ago when the whole controversy arose with the owner, from that I will never buy, nor reccomend anyone buy their products.

sandnessmj
01-23-2007, 10:12 AM
I'd personally go with the Tang-Bands over anything ED has to offer, but thats my personal experiences. I'm sure most of the people that currently support ED weren't around a few years ago when the whole controversy arose with the owner, from that I will never buy, nor reccomend anyone buy their products.

Yeah, I've heard some stories, but personally I've never had anything but top notch service and great experiences. Seems to me that whatever was going on "back in the day" has been cleared up - they're actually growing by leaps and bounds right now, and generally you can't do that with any shady business practices.

onemoremile
01-23-2007, 10:31 AM
Want some nice mid bass speakers?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_3521.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_3519.jpg

b00st
01-23-2007, 02:31 PM
is that a low pass filter attached?

sandnessmj
01-23-2007, 02:36 PM
is that a low pass filter attached?

That's what I was going to ask - it's either that or an adapter to use with his car's stock wiring...

b00st
01-23-2007, 02:42 PM
actually now that you mention it....that does look like the factory clip.

Strombo
01-23-2007, 02:46 PM
My input would be some Infinity Refrences. Those Infinity Kappa's I was told don't sound to great unless you have an amp for the speakers seperately. I have refrences in the front and back and absolutely love them!

b00st
01-23-2007, 03:02 PM
i'm just trying to get more bass out of the my setup. i have bostons acoustics all around. mid end stuff. not the real high end. but i gots no bass. i need something. so i figure if I can get some small boxes made for my rear deck speakers...drop an amp on them...i can get a little bass. or i can get a midbass or woofer at 6.5" and get a little bass....something to the effect of the bose stereo...i have a huge gap in my stereo setup....negative bass. my bostons weren't meant for bass....but i don't more additional weight....i don't need to crack pavement as i'm driving anymore. i might add my 1 10...it depends. again it weighs 30lbs + whatever box they build....fiberglass in the spare tire well was the original plan. but i think i can do some 6.5" in the deck and get something made for them.

bass_lover1
01-23-2007, 04:36 PM
Do you have components or coaxils up front?

Since this isn't your topic, PM me the details of your setup and I'll see if I can give you some guidance as to what you should do next.

onemoremile
01-23-2007, 04:45 PM
Those are the stock quick clips from a 91 lebaron convertible. These speakers have been sitting on a shelf in the basement since 1999.

No 5 1/2 is going to give you any real bass. The Hart 6.5" subwoofer tried to do it but still wasn't nearly as nice as a pair of 8" subs.

For nice lightweight bass try an Orbis sub. 13 pounds all up for a 14" carbon fiber sphere with 10" driver.

http://www.caraudiomag.com/specialfeatures/0501cae_bestof21z.jpg

http://www.orbisaudio.com/specs.htm

b00st
01-23-2007, 10:36 PM
hmmm....thats different.

my xmax subs are carbon fiber but the magnet it killing me.

what does the stock bose have in the rear deck? and 8" sub? thats enough for me.

i have a complete phoenix gold setup sitting under my stairs. from speaker wire to RCAs to distribution blocks to caps. everything i ever bought was phoenix. ran some JL 12's back in the day....whatever the series was that you could run 3 of. then i chilled out and ran a pair of xmax 10s. the 1 10" sub and amp prolly won't kill me. i'm far to lazy to do installs anymore....lazy and have no time really. i have an LPL44 sitting there to control the bass and a phoenix pro line driver to help keep the sound nice a clean. i didn't want all that junk in. but if i put an amp in prolly my MS2125...then i need the pro-line driver and my crossover installed and prolly 1 of the caps. i just wanted something similar to the factory bose output. that has enough bass for what i'm looking to do with my car. maybe i'll drive it to tweeter to see what they can do for me....provided it doesn't snow, rain, drizzle, etc. [:D] she doesn't see but sunshine anymore.

Jason84
01-24-2007, 01:50 AM
there is no such thing as a carbon fiber magnet... all magnets are ceramic for speakers.

BoostTed
01-24-2007, 01:54 AM
there is no such thing as a carbon fiber magnet... all magnets are ceramic for speakers.

i think he meant the cone

sandnessmj
01-24-2007, 09:54 AM
there is no such thing as a carbon fiber magnet... all magnets are ceramic for speakers.

Unless they're neodymium...[:D]

b00st
01-24-2007, 09:59 AM
there is no such thing as a carbon fiber magnet... all magnets are ceramic for speakers.


no kidding...you read that wrong and i kinda worded it badly....the cone is carbon fiber. the magnet is as you said...i'm saying it weighs to damn much for me. i used to be into car audio pre audi. but now i'm more about speed than sounds. but i do need to fill in the gap in my sounds. negative bass here.[:D]

bass_lover1
01-24-2007, 10:23 AM
there is no such thing as a carbon fiber magnet... all magnets are ceramic for speakers.


Not true...but ceramic magnets are commonly used because they are cheap...but definitely not all speakers use ceramic.