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matt719
12-11-2006, 08:12 PM
Basically I'm an audio newbie... yes I could search, but I don't even know what to search for, so I'm just looking for someone to give me direction.

If you had ~$300, what would you get? I have the stock non-bose setup now. I want to keep the stock headunit. I'm thinking 4 speakers... 6.5" in the rear, correct? and does anyone know where I can get the adaptors to fit 5.25" in the front? (I think the thread was lost during the crash). I also want a new amp to power this... no stock crap. A sub would be nice, but I'm guessing there isn't room in the budget for one. That's alright, because I mainly listen to classic rock, maybe some rap/hip-hop on the radio. Also, what about wiriting?

Thanks for your suggestions [up]

sandnessmj
12-11-2006, 08:44 PM
Honestly, for $300 I think it would be hard to really make any upgrade to the stock system. Sure you could throw a sub + amp in there for some extra lows, but it all depends on your listening habits...
I don't think replacing the stock speakers (without powering them with an aftermarktet amp) is going to get you much of an upgrade.
By the way, if you need wiring, check out Knukoncepts.com. Good prices and products, but sometimes slow to ship.

matt719
12-11-2006, 09:01 PM
I probably should have mentioned all of my speakers are shot, so even just throwing stock ones in would be a huge improvement. But I'm not going to do that I was thinking an amp would be around $150 and speakers would be like $50-75 a set. Is this unrealistic? I don't need a sub.

I can look at prices and everything, I guess I more just need some suggestions on what speakers to get, and all the different little parts I don't know about.

Thanks!

p.s. if it ended up costing $400, it wouldn't be the end of the world... I just don't want to plan on $400 and have it end up being $500.

gotdubd
12-11-2006, 09:54 PM
i would do an aftermarket head unit before doing a 4ch amp

i work at a shop, also a fellow b5 owner.

fronts=4" can be modded to do 5.25"
rears=6.5"

to do a radio, youre looking at a minimum of about $100.
im sure you wouldnt be impressed with anything for 100$

cheapest (decent) 4h amp approx 200.00

fronts and rears you could do for about 80-100/pair.

then depending whether you do the install or not, being that you said youre an audio n00b. im guessing no. you would be at about 100 (at least at my shop)
for radio and 4 speakers, about 160 do to a 4champ and 4 speakers + wire and RCAs

take that into consideration. PM me if you have any other questions.

matt719
12-12-2006, 04:22 AM
Thanks. I'm a car audio newbie, but I have a lot of experience working on home audio. I also have a decent amount of experience with my car so I'm planning on doing this myself.

The reason I want to keep the stock headunit is because I like the clean look, and I have a CD changer that corresponds to it. If I'm using an external amp, what reason is there to get an aftermarket headunit?

gotdubd
12-12-2006, 06:09 AM
running a 4ch amp of your factory radio, using a high level input. you lose SO much signal going to that amp.
loss of signal=loss of good sound coming from that amp.
its totally ok to run a 4ch like that, but i feel like doing a headunit and maybe a 4ch down the raod makes a little more sense.

johnnybravoa4
12-12-2006, 08:23 AM
go on ebay and get some infinity kapp speakers, they are cheep and sound decent for the money dont bother with an amp with the factory head-unit you probibly wont like the way it sounds if your into home audio just get the best replacement speakers you can buy or go to a junk yard near you and get speakers out of a recked car..

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 08:54 AM
DO NOT try to use an amplifier with your stock concert HU. I've been doing car audio for quite some time and after two months of work myself, a visit to two car audio shops and help completely rewiring my setup from a Harmon Kardon tech I never could get a clean signal. The feedback was ridiculous.

Also, you can't just replace your rear speakers because they are "self-amplified." If you put aftermarket speakers in the rear, you'll have nothing to power them unless you have an aftermarket HU. The concert HU has speaker outs for the front components and it has line outs for the rear (it also has line outs for the front, but they aren't used)

My advice would be to keep your stock HU (because aftermarket looks like crap in our cars plus you don't have much money) and replace your front componets (5.25" woofer and 1" tweeter). You will have to do some modificaton to your door to get the 5.25" woofer to fit. The original size, at least in my car is 5.25", but (crazy Germans) unlike any other car the stock front speakers have three mounts instead of four. Meaning, aftermarket speakers' bolt holes won't line up so you'll have to make a bracket. You also have to be careful with the mounting depth to be sure the magnet doesn't hit the window when it's rolled down.

So, in summation, if your rear speakers aren't blown don't replace them. If they are, see if you can find cheap ones from a junk yard. Replace your front components with aftermarket ones if you feel comfortable fabricating a mounting bracket. If not, by stock replacements.

If you have money left, you can run a sub. The front line outs that I mentioned earlier that aren't being used can be used for the signal. Blaupunkt makes an adaptor to convert the line outs to RCA outs. You could also DIY. There are 6 wires (maybe more but you only need these 6) used for line outs. Four are for speakers (FL, FR, RL and RR). The RL and RR are being used. The other two wires are ground and remote (turns on the amp). So, what you do is cut the RCA wire (both red and white). Inside the casing is an outer wire (ground) and another shielded wire in the center (signal). Take the ground wire from both red and white RCA and splice it in to the ground wire from your HU. Take the signal wire from the Red RCA and splice into either the FL or FR take the white and splice into the other one. Now you have RCA outs from your stock concert HU. You'll also need to splice into the remote wire and run that to your new amp. I've tried Blaupunkt and the DIY method and I personally could not tell a difference in quality. Speaking of quality, this process is what I tried to do for the aftermarket speakers, but like I said it sucked. However, for a sub, signal quality isn't NEARLY as critical. Just make sure you buy an amp with a low-pass filter.

Wow, this was wordy, if you have more questions just ask. I'll try to answer. Good luck!!!

sandnessmj
12-12-2006, 10:06 AM
Sorry to threadjack, but I'm interested in your opinion on using a JL Cleansweep or RF 3.sixty? I'd also like to keep the stock headunit, but I want to be able to send a clean signal to an amp...

johnnybravoa4
12-12-2006, 10:38 AM
http://enfigcarstereo.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/aux_oem.html

i found this site they have audi/auxi imput adapters for audi's

matt719
12-12-2006, 12:24 PM
Wow thanks for the responses, this is great information. What I've gotten out of this thread:

Either go all the way and do everything, or just get high quality front speakers and replace the backs with stock speakers.

It really kills me to buy a crappy stock speaker and spend the time to put it in, maybe I'll just wait until I can do everything.

The reason the afore mentioned probably won't happen is because if I had $700 lying around I'd buy a Borla cat-back or the APR onsale at ECS.

Follow-up question: Did I understand correctly... can I buy a new headunit AND four aftermarket speakers? In other words, do aftermarket headunits have internal amplifiers for the front and rear?

And a word about headunits - I am pretty ignorant about them. I know that Alpine has good reputation, but I feel I'd pay for a lot of features I don't need or want. Does anyone have any suggestions of a nice, clean-looking, powerful head unit that doesn't come with the overstated price of an Alpine or similar?

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 01:14 PM
First off, the link above to enfigcarstero is for audio inputs not outputs.

IMO, the stock rear speakers sound pretty good. Also your rears aren't nearly as important as your fronts. So, fad the volume to the rear speakers to make sure they're blown and if they are I'd try to replace them (assuming you can find some for cheap)

If you get aftermarket fronts I'd look for a high quality speaker with a high sensitivity rating (because your stock HU doesn't put out much power). In a nutshell a speaker with a sensitivity of 93 will be twice as loud as a speaker with sensitivity of 90 at the same volume level. The disadvantage is that normally high sensitivity speakers ahndle less power (in your case that's fine). Don't forget you need 5.25" components (woofer and tweeter seperate) and not 5.25" coaxial (woofer and tweeter together).

As for aftermarket HUs I like Alpine and Pioneer (everyone has their own opinion). Any HU in the price range you're looking at will have four outputs for speakers (most likely around 22 watts RMS to each), so you would be able to power all speakers. If you're interested in adding amplifiers you need to look at the HU's pre-outs (RCA outputs on the back of the HU). Typically HU's will have either no pre-outs, a sub-out, a sub and front out, or a sub, front and rear out. So these options are up to you and what you plan to do now or in the future. BTW, you can power all four speakers with just a front-out but you won't be able to fad between front and rear (IMO not a big deal). IMO, you should look for pre-outs that are at least 4 volts. Bascially the higher the voltage the stronger the signal and the better the sound.

You'll find the best prices on equipment on Ebay. I'd only buy new stuff though.

matt719
12-12-2006, 01:40 PM
First off, the link above to enfigcarstero is for audio inputs not outputs.

IMO, the stock rear speakers sound pretty good. Also your rears aren't nearly as important as your fronts. So, fad the volume to the rear speakers to make sure they're blown and if they are I'd try to replace them (assuming you can find some for cheap)

If you get aftermarket fronts I'd look for a high quality speaker with a high sensitivity rating (because your stock HU doesn't put out much power). In a nutshell a speaker with a sensitivity of 93 will be twice as loud as a speaker with sensitivity of 90 at the same volume level. The disadvantage is that normally high sensitivity speakers ahndle less power (in your case that's fine). Don't forget you need 5.25" components (woofer and tweeter seperate) and not 5.25" coaxial (woofer and tweeter together).

As for aftermarket HUs I like Alpine and Pioneer (everyone has their own opinion). Any HU in the price range you're looking at will have four outputs for speakers (most likely around 22 watts RMS to each), so you would be able to power all speakers. If you're interested in adding amplifiers you need to look at the HU's pre-outs (RCA outputs on the back of the HU). Typically HU's will have either no pre-outs, a sub-out, a sub and front out, or a sub, front and rear out. So these options are up to you and what you plan to do now or in the future. BTW, you can power all four speakers with just a front-out but you won't be able to fad between front and rear (IMO not a big deal). IMO, you should look for pre-outs that are at least 4 volts. Bascially the higher the voltage the stronger the signal and the better the sound.

You'll find the best prices on equipment on Ebay. I'd only buy new stuff though.


Thanks! I think I'll look for a headunit with front, rear, and sub outputs just so I have all the flexibility for the future I can. So if I get a headunit and four speakers, should I use the stock wiring or do I need to upgrade that as well?

sandnessmj
12-12-2006, 01:43 PM
Thanks! I think I'll look for a headunit with front, rear, and sub outputs just so I have all the flexibility for the future I can. So if I get a headunit and four speakers, should I use the stock wiring or do I need to upgrade that as well?

You should be able to use the stock wiring if running the speakers with the aftermarket head unit. If using the head unit with an amp to power the speakers, you'll run RCA's to the amp from the HU, and new wiring to the speakers from the amp.

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 02:35 PM
You can use your stock speaker wires for the front, but there are no speaker wires running to the rear speakers so you'll have to run them yourself. Be sure to run your power and ground wires in a different location than any speaker or signal wire so you won't get feedback.

matt719
12-12-2006, 03:24 PM
Last question, I promise!

I'm looking at crutchfield because I have a gift certificate there. The web interface is very helpful.

I wondering how deep the front 5.25" speakers can be before they will hit the window.

Thanks!

matt719
12-12-2006, 03:32 PM
You can use your stock speaker wires for the front, but there are no speaker wires running to the rear speakers so you'll have to run them yourself. Be sure to run your power and ground wires in a different location than any speaker or signal wire so you won't get feedback.

So there are different power and signal wires? Why is this? Just foreign to me, every speaker I've ever used has only had a power/ground. What might an example of how to run them be?

gotdubd
12-12-2006, 03:51 PM
Last question, I promise!

I'm looking at crutchfield because I have a gift certificate there. The web interface is very helpful.

I wondering how deep the front 5.25" speakers can be before they will hit the window.

Thanks!


about 2" or so..not much more. top mount depth

and there is rear speaker wires. how else would the speakers work?
hopes and dreams?

what hes saying is when/if you do a 4ch amp. run you power wire on one side of the car, and the rca's and speaker wires on the opposite. to avoid engine noise(ground loop)

since yuou have a bose amp. you can get all the speaker wires there(mounted to bottom of deck in trunk)

i say you might wanna leave this one to a shop
and when i say shop.
NOT circuit city or best buy. theyre hacks
go to a locally owned car audio shop

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 04:05 PM
There are not speaker wires running from your HU to the rear speakers. As I've mentioned, the rear speakers are self-amplified. Therefore, signal wires run from the HU to the rear speakers but not acual speaker wires.

His questions was if he'll have to run new speaker wires. For the rear he will, because there aren't any.

As for the mounting depth, if you had to you could use spacers to bring the speaker out and get it away from the window.

AudiA4_20T
12-12-2006, 04:10 PM
What the hell are you talking about the rear speakers? Maybe in the bose systems but I replaced my rear speakers fine in my non bose fine... [confused]

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 04:27 PM
Did you have a concert HU?

There is an amplifier attached to the rear driver's side speaker. Speaker wires go from that amp to the rear passenger's side speaker to power it. It may be possible to detach the amp and somehow reconnect an aftermarket speaker, but there is no direct replacement. Unless my A4 is different than everyone elses.

gotdubd
12-12-2006, 06:31 PM
with the bose systems.
there is signals that go form headunit-amp
then speaker wires that go from amp-speaker.

if i remember correctly he said he has bose. thats where i was going with this.

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 06:37 PM
He has non-bose.

Kreizy31
12-12-2006, 07:04 PM
i did all my setup for pretty cheap, buy everything off ebay!

i have kenwood components all around and 12" kenwood subs in the back, an 1800w soundstorm amp. i changed the HU though, running the speakers from that since its damn strong and the subs from the aftermarket amp.

matt719
12-12-2006, 07:21 PM
Ok, just to clarify what I need:

Headunit
Front speakers
Rear speakers
Enough speaker wire (16 gauge maybe?) to go from the headunit to the rear deck

I'm still unclear about the wiring situation. I'm a mechanically inclined person, so I want to attempt this myself. I've done headunit installs in other cars, but they weren't as counterintuitive as my German Stallion.

I'm not running a 4 channel amp, so all I need is standard issue copper wire to run from my headunit to the rear speaker right? If I had an external amp, I'd need RCA to the amp and wire to the speakers, but I'm not doing that.

Sorry about all the confusion, I will get this stuff eventually!

white fish
12-12-2006, 07:56 PM
sandnessmj I PMed you

I put rear speakers in with the oem wiring but there was only 3 then I found the wire that turns on the rear amp and used that a my other speaker wire

I heard MB Quartz use to make an adaptor for our doors (but dont anymore) anyone know of anybody else that makes a adaptors or have a pdf drawing of one?

juju4uofa
12-12-2006, 08:04 PM
^^ Your saying you used the remote wire for the stock amp as a speaker wire. Impossible. There are actually 6 wires connected to your rear DS speaker: remote, ground, left input, right input, and two speaker wires for the right speaker. None of these wires can simply be used as speaker wires. If you were to somehow install aftermarket speakers you'd still have to be using the stock amp to power them. The concert HU CAN NOT power rear speakers it can only send a signal!!!!!!!!!!



Here's a list of things you'll need:

Head Unit
5.25" Components
6.5" Coaxials
50' of speaker wire (16 guage is plenty)
Wiring Harness Adaptor (splices into stock wiring and plugs into your aftermarket HU)
Faceplate adaptor (Provides mounting brackets and a faceplate)

The only thing different from regular cars is that when you splice into your stock wiring and plug the connection in you won't have rear speaker wires. Take the 50' you buy and splice into the rear speaker outputs on your new HU and simply run the wires back to your speakers.

white fish
12-12-2006, 08:07 PM
forgot to mention I installed an aftermarket HU

matt719
12-12-2006, 08:25 PM
Great, I think I get it now. Thanks for all the responses, everyone. I'm going to order from Crutchfield because I have a certificate there... plus they include the faceplate adapter, wiring harness, and oem radio removal tool for free. On top of that they send good directions, as well as offer tech support.

Thanks again!

white fish
12-13-2006, 07:49 PM
hey when you get it snap a pic of the faceplate adapter plate

thanks

ny02s4
12-14-2006, 09:31 AM
just so you know those adapters will cost you close to $150 after shipping from the UK.

sandnessmj
12-14-2006, 01:05 PM
just so you know those adapters will cost you close to $150 after shipping from the UK.

Not sure where you got that figure from - Ebay item #320060676212 is for a kit that has the harness adapter and faceplate trim for $23 shipped.

bassed
12-14-2006, 01:11 PM
Blau Adapter - 20shipped
Search Vortex for cheap 4ch Amp- 35-->60local pick up (someone is always local)
5.25" Speaker adpaters from Nexia - 30shipped
CDT 5.25" frt. componenets- 189.00 (what I would use but you can go way cheaper FYI on both front and rear).
CDT6.5" rear deck - 250.00

Total cost-545.00 and it will be hard to do it much cheaper and not have it sound like shite.

onemoremile
12-14-2006, 01:18 PM
You can get decent components or coax speakers for about 100 bucks a set. Look at the entry level offerings from Infinity, Pioneer, etc.. I've paid less than 100 for a set of MB Quart components with crossover.

matt719
12-14-2006, 03:30 PM
Crutchfield ships the both the faceplate adaptor and harness free of charge with each headunit, so I won't be buying them seperately.

dsswain
12-14-2006, 05:57 PM
A system setup that worked VERY VERY VERY well in my previous car, a ford contour, yes, and I loved that car too. Rocked it for years in college and it stood up to anything, and everything. Best bang for the buck.

Aftermarket head-unit
5 1/4 Fronts
6 1/2 Rears
12in sealed Sub Alpine Type S
4 channel Amp. 4*40

I ran the front speakers off the Amp at 40watts ea., and bridged the rear channels of the amp to the sub @ 100 watts. I then asked the audio shop to bridge the front and rear channels of the head unit to power the rear speakers only, they didn't ask anymore questions so I assumed they did it, as they sounded good.

The stereo kicked!! not gonna lie, and didn't give me any of the hassles of the setup I have listed below. Budget I'd vote for this. And if you want I'll sell you the Sony Amp I used for $75 shipped. It's old, but was an excellent amp at the time and performed flawlessly. It was like ~$400 in 1997 (yea, I'm getting up there now) It's just sitting in my closet.


I had a good system in my 1.8T Avant when I had it. US AMPs 5 channel and OZ Audio components all around. The feedback was horrible, I lived with it because I had the double din Symphony head unit but it was rough. Now I just rock the Bose.


Ohh, and I'm in MA to over the holidays, I'll give you the amp and some stinger cables, and whatever wire I have left over if you want to pick it up. Also have a PPI 5 channel amp that started teh system in My 1.8t avant. One day driving home I started losing bass to the sub. Not sure if that part if fried or what, the remaining 4 front channels still work, if you could possibly get it to work, you would Have and ILLLLLLL 5 channel amp.

I'll practically give this stuff to you. e-mail me dsswain@hotmail.com I live in Medfield, where you at?

3 bar
12-14-2006, 06:33 PM
I just made a stealth box for mine with a 12" JL Audio sub and a Fosgate amp. Luckly only one my speakers was blown which I fixed with some window urethane.

Sounds great to me and everyone thinks I have a stock system

onemoremile
12-14-2006, 06:54 PM
I then asked the audio shop to bridge the front and rear channels of the head unit to power the rear speakers only, they didn't ask anymore questions so I assumed they did it, as they sounded good.



Bridging the head unit's amp channels is a great way to start your dash a smokin'. Just run the rear channels to the rear speakers. Run the front speakers and sub off the head unit's front speaker leads. This lets you fade the rear speakers in and out with the fader without affecting bass level.

dsswain
12-14-2006, 07:15 PM
Bridging the head unit's amp channels is a great way to start your dash a smokin'. Just run the rear channels to the rear speakers. Run the front speakers and sub off the head unit's front speaker leads. This lets you fade the rear speakers in and out with the fader without affecting bass level.

They very well could have done that, it was a while ago, so I forget if I did have the fade. Either way, it sounded good, and he should take me up on my Amp and wire offer, because it will sound very good and meet his budget, and is a quality piece. Probably should just do the rears, keeps it easy and they are just fill anyways.

Down the road if he wanted to add an amp or run a 5 channel it wouldn't be too hard to wire the rear speakers up. Or if he can get my 5 channel to work he'd be set. I'll give this to you to try, who knows, maybe it will magically fire up. But if it does, I'll request teh Sony back.

onemoremile
12-14-2006, 09:33 PM
I've got a similar system in the Outback. Stock cd/tape head unit powers the rear speakers and sends it's front speaker signal to an MTX 4244 4 channel amp. That amp powers Clarion Pro-Audio separates up front and a single MB Quart 10" sub. Simple, stock appearance, and easily reversible. I extended the front speaker leads so that they were more easily accessible and arranged the bullet connectors so that it would be a very simple matter to disconnect the amp and connect them to each other. This would bring the system back to stock in 10 minutes flat with no tools.

ny02s4
12-15-2006, 08:47 AM
Blau Adapter - 20shipped
Search Vortex for cheap 4ch Amp- 35-->60local pick up (someone is always local)
5.25" Speaker adpaters from Nexia - 30shipped
CDT 5.25" frt. componenets- 189.00 (what I would use but you can go way cheaper FYI on both front and rear).
CDT6.5" rear deck - 250.00

Total cost-545.00 and it will be hard to do it much cheaper and not have it sound like shite.

last i checked the only place you can buy the Nexia adapters was in the UK. I was quoted $130 shipped for the pair.