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k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 07:39 AM
information is never bad...so i figured id post this here for some of the more hardcore ppl here

i was having some issues w/ the car @ ~5500+ running ~20+psi...something just didnt feel right...sometimes it felt as if the car was misfiring...sometimes it just felt like it was losing power

i was thinking spark blow out and talked to a vortex'er about the problem last night on aim

he said try re-gapping the plugs to .024"

so i did...and it seemed to have worked

the car ripped this morn on the way to work... ~20.5-21psi

a dump @ ~5500-6k + a slight turn to the right w/ the steering wheel resulted in a nice slide/4 wheel burnout till the car started to go straight again

anyways..here are pics of the plugs i took out last night...they are bkr7e

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/plugs004.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/plugs005.jpg

94jedi
11-18-2006, 08:43 AM
Hey ian, don't they come gapped at about .024? When I got my 7's, I barely had to do anything to get them to .028. Of course, I used a pos circular gapper.

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 08:51 AM
all of the ones ive bought have come @ .030"+

AudiA4_20T
11-18-2006, 08:53 AM
Wow the plugs look pretty good for all that power your putting down... Glad to hear the car is running right [up]

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 09:00 AM
thanks

those have been run @ ~17psi for a little while now

~20.5psi yesterday

and i was quite pleased w/ the look of them as well..they look as if im running a touch on the lean side but the wideband says different so im going to let it roll...no oil or anything..motor has been together for ~6k miles now..so im happy

94jedi
11-18-2006, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
all of the ones ive bought have come @ .030"+

shite, am I gapping plugs the wrong way? I usually just make sure the ground strap is centered on the measurement I want and I make sure the coin gapper fits in and out at that position fairly easily.

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 09:56 AM
i make the gap small then use the coin tool to expand it back out


the .028" mark is centered as well but its usually pretty snug in there when i do it

ive had a couple be @ ~.030" before but theyre usually all above .030"

they have never been less than .028"

it may only be .004" but looking @ a .028" plug and a .024" plug..there was a noticeable difference in gap

pac1085
11-18-2006, 09:58 AM
the bkr6e or 7es should be gaped at .032" when you buy em

those coin tools are horrible IMO

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 10:24 AM
eh...for $1 and ive been using it for about 2.5yrs..im pretty confident in my gapping abilities

Don Supreme
11-18-2006, 10:36 AM
20-21 psi is the highest boost you have run so far?

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 10:41 AM
i was running ~ 23psi on pump a couple months ago..long before the cams

the cams changed a lot

im content w/ ~20-21 on pump daily

Don Supreme
11-18-2006, 12:28 PM
You should run some race gas and see if your timing pull comes down to zero.

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 01:19 PM
i should run some race gas on the dyno @ 25+ psi

race gas on the street is too much of a waste..cant have as much fun on the street

Don Supreme
11-18-2006, 01:31 PM
All I am saying is

1) Since installing the cams you timing CF has been pretty high. Why is that? Is it because you are running too much timing, not enough fuel or the ECU is acting a fool because of the cam specs?

2) You are always itching to do something new with your car, so some race gas and more boost seem like an easy fix.

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 01:33 PM
i think the timing pull is from the ecu freaking out...timing pull wasnt that bad before the cams...its cool though..i backed it down some w/ lemmi...not going to mess w/ it again any time soon

i dont want to have to buy race gas all the time...im broke enough as it is :(

110 is almost $5/gal

94jedi
11-18-2006, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
110 is almost $5/gal

actually, here at the local track it's 5.60 and they don't take CC. WTF?

k0mpresd
11-18-2006, 08:08 PM
last time i bought some it was ~$4.90 i think

im not buying it @ the track though

94jedi
11-19-2006, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
im not buying it @ the track though

I don't know of anyplace around here that sells it except the track...maybe a speed shop?[confused]

k0mpresd
11-19-2006, 07:22 AM
http://www.sunoco.navisite.com/

94jedi
11-19-2006, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
http://www.sunoco.navisite.com/

holy shit, there's 2 within 15 miles...and they sell race gas? I thought they only sold 94.

k0mpresd
11-19-2006, 07:37 AM
a sunoco station is where i buy it

old ass eff but they sell 110

call them and ask [up]

mike-2ptzero
11-19-2006, 07:43 AM
Just have to remember that when you decrease the spark plug gap you also decrease the amount of voltage used.


Just bought VP 110 here in socal yesterday and it is up to $6 a gallon now, but still better then the $8 a gallon for MS109 or $12 a gallon for C16


BTW why do you still run single type plugs?

k0mpresd
11-19-2006, 07:54 AM
because theyre $1.68/each, i can get them local, and the car seems to like them fine...minus the blowout of course

k0mpresd
11-19-2006, 03:34 PM
you ppl and your dirty mind tricks [eek]

110 is now up to $5.29

and does anyone know our gas tank size?

because i just mixed ~1/4 tank w/ ~5.4 gallons of 110

pac1085
11-19-2006, 03:37 PM
quattro is 15.9 gallons

never put more than 14 in my self (below empty on gauge) so figure a 1.9 gallon reserve

AudiA4_20T
11-19-2006, 03:43 PM
I think its like 16

k0mpresd
11-19-2006, 04:10 PM
word

so i just mixed ~4gals of 93 w/ ~5gal of 110

im going to have some fun this week [cool]

pac1085
11-19-2006, 04:32 PM
Can you get E-85 down there?

k0mpresd
11-19-2006, 04:33 PM
no [:(]

not where i am

it can be found in charlotte which is about 1-1.25hrs south of where i am

110 is 20 mins away..in town too

Don Supreme
11-20-2006, 05:05 AM
So how is the timing CF looking now?

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 05:23 AM
no idea

didnt log this morning but i have the laptop in the car...itll take a little bit of driving for the ecu to adapt anways

saturday and yesterday the car ripped but i got 2 misfires this morn @ ~5800-6k in 3rd gear

i thought about what mike said (less gap=less voltage) and the fact iridiums plugs take less voltage to make a good spark

so im going to get some bkr8eix and try them out

this motor had 8eix's running a 35r and making good power..till it dropped a valve yesterday [:(] (pete's car)

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Quickgti18t/DSC02590.jpg

mike-2ptzero
11-20-2006, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
no idea

didnt log this morning but i have the laptop in the car...itll take a little bit of driving for the ecu to adapt anways

saturday and yesterday the car ripped but i got 2 misfires this morn @ ~5800-6k in 3rd gear

i thought about what mike said (less gap=less voltage) and the fact iridiums plugs take less voltage to make a good spark

so im going to get some bkr8eix and try them out

this motor had 8eix's running a 35r and making good power..till it dropped a valve yesterday [:(] (pete's car)

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/Quickgti18t/DSC02590.jpg


You run iriduims? They tend not to work that great in our cars even though they do work very well in Evo's.

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
(pete's car)
thats not my plug

i run copper bkr7e

im going to try the 8eix's

see what happens

mike-2ptzero
11-20-2006, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
thats not my plug

i run copper bkr7e

im going to try the 8eix's

see what happens


was going to say. Now just go grab a set of these and be done with it.

http://www.034motorsport.com/images/7a_plug.jpg

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 08:03 AM
never really used bosch plugs

ive always used ngk's for the most part

why do you suggest the +4?

Don Supreme
11-20-2006, 08:51 AM
Yeah its a shame about Pete's car. I hope that doesn't happen to me when I get back on the road.

Ian, are you going to go give him a hand with the rebuild?

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 08:53 AM
no clue

havent really talked to him

only conversing back and forth ive done w/ him has been on vortex and yea..my im's are still blocked [mad]

it dropped the valve just from wear and tear though i think

he beat the piss out of that motor (what little time it was together) and the motor before that

iin10ded
11-20-2006, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero

BTW why do you still run single type plugs?

mike - is that pic you posted the f5dpor bosch from the ur-s4? i was going to try that plug next.

this is well timed.. [oooh bad pun, sorry] as i have a plug question. i'm getting a hesitation / sputter on boost between 5+15 psi. makes the gas pedal more like an on/off switch which is aggrivating. also get a slight stumble [miss ?] at idle. i have the feeling that my plugs aren't right. HAVE searched but wanted opinions..

everyone seems to recc the bkr6e or 7e for the ko4, i just switched from a bkr6EGP [single ground electrode] to a bkr6KUB [dual ground electrode] - the car seems to run the same on either; not great.

and what's the 411 on gapping the multi-ground electrode plugs? afaik they can not be gapped, correct?

pac1085
11-20-2006, 09:33 AM
this is the f5dpor:

http://partsdirect.s-cars.org/images/f5dpor.jpg

i love those plugs.
pregapped from the factory at .024" you can't change it.


i only run them in the summer though, bkr6e's in the winter.

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by iin10ded
mike - is that pic you posted the f5dpor bosch from the ur-s4? i was going to try that plug next.

this is well timed.. [oooh bad pun, sorry] as i have a plug question. i'm getting a hesitation / sputter on boost between 5+15 psi. makes the gas pedal more like an on/off switch which is aggrivating. also get a slight stumble [miss ?] at idle. i have the feeling that my plugs aren't right. HAVE searched but wanted opinions..

everyone seems to recc the bkr6e or 7e for the ko4, i just switched from a bkr6EGP [single ground electrode] to a bkr6KUB [dual ground electrode] - the car seems to run the same on either; not great.

and what's the 411 on gapping the multi-ground electrode plugs? afaik they can not be gapped, correct?
the pic mike posted is of a +4 bosch plug

ive been running bkr7e for 2+ years and have just now bought something different

i ran the 6e once and my car idled like garbage so i went back to the 7e's

you do not/cannot gap multi-ground plugs

Don Supreme
11-20-2006, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by pac1085
this is the f5dpor:

http://partsdirect.s-cars.org/images/f5dpor.jpg

i love those plugs.
pregapped from the factory at .024" you can't change it.


i only run them in the summer though, bkr6e's in the winter.

What is your turbo setup?

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Don Supreme
What is your turbo setup?

Originally posted by pac1085
That manifold would put the intake on my turbo half way through the headlight. The ATP one BARELY clears but it does clear. with a little bit of modding to the valve cover you can fit a pretty large turbo...

http://static.flickr.com/121/294630103_fb837a7fcc_o.jpg

And yes, it is almost impossible to get the nuts on on the ATP manifold!

I would upgrade to 10mm studs in the head while you're at it, my 8mm ones are starting to break since theres no brace for the turbo.
looks like an hx35

iin10ded
11-20-2006, 10:03 AM
thanks for the details guys. i'll throw in a set of the standard 6e's and see if that helps any..

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 10:19 AM
if youre running a k04 w/ stock smic id prob run the 7e's

iin10ded
11-20-2006, 10:23 AM
7e is cooler? thanks ill give them a try. i also need to replace the fool filter as it's likley never been done and maybe swap back to a stock n75 to see if either smooths out me boost.

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 10:26 AM
the 7e is a heat range colder than stock, yes

and its fuel :p

i wish someone made a fool filter [cool]

iin10ded
11-20-2006, 10:28 AM
no.. no.. it's fool. trust me. ;-)

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 04:01 PM
copy/paste from local forum/vortex...

heres a pic of what came out of the car tonight

i gapped these @ .024" fri night..ran them saturday, sunday, this morn, and this afternoon during lunch

race gas has only been in the car today...this morn, and lunch

i ran the piss out of it during lunch

is the color change from the race gas or just plain burning better?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/plugs007.jpg

mike-2ptzero
11-20-2006, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by k0mpresd

you do not/cannot gap multi-ground plugs


Correct which is nice and no problems with them even while running boost at 32psi. [:D]


link to these plugs on 034 web site (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=184)

King18TQuattro
11-20-2006, 06:48 PM
I run the bosch "platnin" all year round.

In the winter, after sitting outside in the wisconsin freezer overnight, it is a little difficult to start.

I am also running a stock turbo and no chip, so that may have something to do with it.

I will be upgrading to a bigger setup soon(comparable to mike's), will these work or is there another suggested plug?

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by King18TQuattro
I will be upgrading to a bigger setup soon(comparable to mike's),
who isnt? [rolleyes]

King18TQuattro
11-20-2006, 09:05 PM
Show some srespect, do not respond with some smart ass comment to a serious question.

I like to do my homework. Plain and simple.

It is obvious Mike and a few others have been through the experience of a serious buildup, so why not ask them the questions. If they dont want to help, then let them tell me.

Support projects like mine, you may see me or my car at the track one day.[up]

k0mpresd
11-20-2006, 09:09 PM
youre going to go from a stock turbo/non chipped car to a gt35r w/ no in between?

word..have fun

King18TQuattro
11-20-2006, 10:16 PM
Correct. [up]

I will be posting updates throughout the winter.

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 05:50 AM
i wish i would have made posts and documented all the work ive done [:(] ...oh..wait....[;)]

Don Supreme
11-21-2006, 07:24 AM
^ Kompresed doesn't like it when people get bigger turbos than his.

He has a lot of knowledge though so he can be a valuable resource. I understand what he is saying, however A4s could get some more respect if more of us ran more serious setups.

Either way my car is DOWN and WILL BE DOWN because I am making the sacrifices necessary to make my dream into reality.

I do think I am going to blow up my engine though..... hahahhah

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 07:54 AM
i dont care what turbo you run

i just dont like talk...i like to see results

lots of ppl talk...not many ppl produce results

theres a kid @ work here..has an rsx..said he was going to supercharge it, bought a racing seat instead..like a $1500 race seat [eek]...got a turbo kit..said he was going to turbocharge it

had no type of engine management..didnt have a full set of i/c plumbing...has really no clue of how turbo systems really work

said he was going to do it this past weekend...of course that didnt happen...and on top of all that..he was up my ass weds/thurs last week to bring him an oil feed line so he could make *sure* to get the kit installed this past weekend

kid is all talk..all talk...i have no respect for the kid...if he actually did something..then word...id feel a lot different about him

this guy...http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2940246 ....if you followed his threads on vortex he strapped a unknown type of turbo to his motor, blew it up, rebuilt it, now has a 35r, has issues @ 10psi...so to "fix" it..he cranks it to 25psi...on stock me7 ecu...no type of software, nothing..stock ecu...and to think about it..you posted in his thread :p

so many ppl have "plans" and say theyre going strap "x" turbo to their car...well thats great...when you get it done and do some research, show your diag and repair for issues you have, show youve tried...then ill care

mike posted a pic of a plug...i asked why do you recommend them..he never answered that question

i posted a pic of a plug w/ a little detail about it and "(petes car)" was the last text before the pic...he quoted me and said "you run iridiums?"...i had to repeat myself and say thats not my car...it was totally obvious he didnt care about my post/thread, didnt real my full post/thread, or a combination of the two...he did nothing but try to sell a plug sold by one of his sponsors

pac1085
11-21-2006, 08:09 AM
fwiw, the plugs that mike posted pictures of are NOT the platinum +4s. those (the PLATINUM +4) are junk. they are copper plugs



Originally posted by Don Supreme
What is your turbo setup?

my car actually has no turbo on it right now, the one in that pic is the turbine from a H1C (HX35) and compressor from an H1E (HX40). Its a little too big for what I want (and the CHRA got f'd up so its not rebuildable), I have a brand new H1C in the mail and it will be here today. The best part is if for some reason I ever want more flow I can just slap the bigger compressor wheel and housing on (and get it balanced of course)

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 08:20 AM
what made you go w/ a holset over a journal bearing garrett?

just curious

pac1085
11-21-2006, 08:28 AM
Thats actually a good question, and the logic to my answer probably wont make much sense to most.

What happened was, my K04 blew (after just 9 months in the car) and the car was not drivable. I needed to get it on the road ASAP but did not want to buy another K turbo. I only had about $1000 at the time to fix it. $400 for the ATP Manifold, $200 for WG and another $150 on lines and other misc stuff didn't leave me much money for a turbo, and I couldn't wait. After seeing TomRitt's car running one I decided to take a look around and managed to get one brand new for $200. I figured I have the generic T3 manifold, oil lines, etc and could slap a better turbo on eventually since I have the framework in place. That combined with the fact that they are pretty bulletproof (except mine, go figure) made it a no brainer at the time. I didn't even consider journal bearing Garretts at the time, the way I looked at it was my entire installation cost less than a GT turbo alone.

Anyways, I've been very happy with it aside from it crapping out so I bought another one.

Plus I like to be different :)

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 08:32 AM
logic works for me..do what you gotta do sometimes


Originally posted by pac1085
Plus I like to be different :)
me too...i think its pretty obvious we both do though..i mean...we're def not normal..look @ the cars we drive...bt audi's that are loud, obnoxious, scarey @ times, and makes me want to beat my head up against a wall @ times...what "normal" person would want to drive a car like that everday? :p

Don Supreme
11-21-2006, 08:35 AM
^ When did it spool and what kind of power did it make? I know you probably didn't dyno, but maybe you raced it against x car... ahhah

Why did the turbo fail?

nizmosx
11-21-2006, 08:37 AM
Mike, do you run those plugs because when the single prong spark plugs get hot they expand and if there is only one prong you lose performance. i heard that if you use the 4 prong you will get better performance because if one or two of the prongs heat up and and expand it still has 2 other locations it can grab spark from.

I over heard someone explaining it to another person but using technical words. Please elaborate on why you run them.

Don Supreme
11-21-2006, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
logic works for me..do what you gotta do sometimes


me too...i think its pretty obvious we both do though..i mean...we're def not normal..look @ the cars we drive...bt audi's that are loud, obnoxious, scarey @ times, and makes me want to beat my head up against a wall @ times...what "normal" person would want to drive a car like that everday? :p

"Scarey" I hope you referring to how fast it is....

Ian,

I hear you on the talk. I understand what needs to be done. I am just waiting on the dam parts. I ordered the turbo like a month ago and I am waiting on that. I am waiting on a manifold to built (that probably won't be done until Jan).

I am tempted to run my stock turbo until I get everything in order.

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 08:39 AM
what mani? jays?

and get your freaking motor built :p

pac1085
11-21-2006, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Don Supreme
^ When did it spool and what kind of power did it make? I know you probably didn't dyno, but maybe you raced it against x car... ahhah

Why did the turbo fail?

The spool up depends on so many things. I don't really have a good number to give you.

FWIW, my goal is a car thats fast from like 65mph+


No idea on the power and didn't race anyone because my transmission shit the bed like 2 weeks after I installed the turbo :( I have a 2.8 trans with a really grippy clutch now though! :P

The turbo I had on there was horribly mismatched for my engine, had big turbine with tiny compressor, barely larger than the K04's. think of PC-16 with no low end power but alot more high rpm power.

The turbo i'm getting today is a WAY better match, ill post pics when it comes in.

As far as how it failed.. afew things.

it was smoking at idle, i assumed this was because i needed a smaller restrictor. it turned out it was because the "split ring seal" on the turbine wheel somehow got mangled causing oil to leak into the turbine housing. I didn't know that at the time so I kept putting smaller restrictors on until it stopped smoking (assuming I went too small, hah) there was nothing left of the bearings when i pulled it apart.

Its all a big learning experience. I know 10x more than I did a month ago, and about 1000x more than I did when I bought the car.

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by pac1085
it turned out it was because the "split ring seal" on the turbine wheel somehow got mangled causing oil to leak into the turbine housing.
thats really odd...all those things do is compress together when the shaft is inserted in to the cartridge

pac1085
11-21-2006, 08:58 AM
tell me about it, what are the chances of that thing failing... i still dont understand how it did. the turbo was BRAND NEW in the box when I bought it.

it was still there but there was just about NOTHING left of it, and it ****ed up the inside of the CHRA where it sits so I can't get a fresh ring in there. Both wheels hit too so its a total loss except for the turbine housing.. lol

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 09:05 AM
it had to have happened when it was made..unless you were running some super oil pressure through that thing @ first

ive paper weighted a couple turbos...eh..no big deal [cool]

Don Supreme
11-21-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
what mani? jays?

and get your freaking motor built :p

Yes - Jay's Mani.

94jedi
11-21-2006, 10:06 AM
I love threads like this. so much good info from guys that have actually been there and done that.

I don't consider blowing up a turbo a really bad thing per se. How else can you learn but from your own mistakes?
[up]

PS- Mike H.- I'm also wondering why you recomend the 4 prong Plats????

I'm running 7E's @.028 gap right now and they seem to be fine if I give the car about 10 mins to warm up from a cold start. the car actually idles near perfect.

k0mpresd
11-21-2006, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi
I love threads like this. so much good info from guys that have actually been there and done that.
i like my threads too :p

they usually seem to turn out pretty well

20vturbo
01-07-2007, 12:23 PM
Keep up the good work I'll be watching this thread for a while
I am also building my engine, only things oem left are the block and the head casting the rest is all aftermarket parts...I have mahle pist, carillo rods and eurospec forged crank in the block all balanced to 10000..the head is ported, supertech valves revolver cams ferrea retainers and springs...I am actually waiting for the raceware studs to install the head...next is full race mani and a gt3076r..car will be tuned at tapp...there are people on this thread that did their own set ups and have valuable info...a big thanks for that

Mine's an Outie
01-07-2007, 03:54 PM
I love threads like this. so much good info from guys that have actually been there and done that.

I don't consider blowing up a turbo a really bad thing per se. How else can you learn but from your own mistakes?
[up]



haha I agree that you do learn alot from blowing up turbos. I blew 2 before I learned that I should run a restrictor on garret turbos. I felt pretty stupid because I could have just done a quick search and found the same info. I also felt bad because I borrowed the second turbo from a friend and had to tell him " umm I broke your turbo"