why is it so hard to heel-toe [Archive]

Sharpointer

11-13-2006, 04:31 PM

I've become pretty good at rev matching. Thats become second nature to me now...actually a while ago but thats besides the point. I've tried to heel toe many times but it doesnt seem like the pedels are helping me very much. Im thinking its the gas pedal. I've seen a couple videos of people heel-toeing and the gas pedal starts from the floor; it doenst come out from on top like our audis. Maybe i just need more practice or maybe i need to get a new pedel set for that. lol, i feel stupid asking this but i want to see how many of you are able to do it in our cars. [:)]

Re5pectThe_Cuz

11-13-2006, 04:37 PM

i dnoo about the audi's esp since I have dsg, but w/ my prior G35 it took some practice but it finally came to me. just keep practicing man

Sharpointer

11-13-2006, 04:42 PM

How did the pedel set look on it though...

Re5pectThe_Cuz

11-13-2006, 04:55 PM

http://umsis.miami.edu/~slee3/G35/mods/COUPE_027.JPG

SleeperAvant

11-13-2006, 04:55 PM

Yummy pedals

Sharpointer

11-13-2006, 05:01 PM

bahhhh

Tanner

11-13-2006, 05:14 PM

Easy, half the foot on the brake and then roll the footer over to blip the throttle. Been doing this ever since the B5. Works great especially when braking hard, but a bit more difficult to do smoothly if you're not breaking hard.

Sharpointer

11-13-2006, 05:19 PM

so you keep your toes on the break,and move your heel to the gas is what your saying

Re5pectThe_Cuz

11-13-2006, 05:23 PM

yea one foot on clutch. i use my toes on the brake, and the heel of my foot on the gas. you blip the gas, brake and engage clutch slowly. (thats how ive done it)
however, i dont put my entire heel on the gas pedal. i only put the outer end of it. dont know if thats the perfect way but its worked for me. just hard to keep balance throughout the turn

Sharpointer

11-13-2006, 06:08 PM

yeah i know how the clutch works, it was just the positioning of my right foot. thanks. meh, how many of you other audiers do this regularly?

devenyi

11-13-2006, 06:33 PM

I find it easier to have the ball of my foot on the brake, and use my toe to "blip" the gas

INTEGRATION

11-13-2006, 06:36 PM

Yeah, the pedal placement is very awkward. I've tried so many methods to try to heel toe in the car- extremely hard and haven't found a good way to do it yet :( Maybe it's because I'm a smaller person and my feet aren't "designed" to work well with German cars lol.
For Japanese cars with a different pedal placement design I can heel-toe like its second-nature.

Sharpointer

11-13-2006, 06:39 PM

I feel it would be a lot easier to do if the pedels were designed from the ground up. BMW's are made this way...i gotta try it out out on a buddies bmw sometime to see if that makes any difference.

DeMOROlized

11-13-2006, 06:56 PM

The pedal design in our car isn't really that good for heel-toe because the gas pedal is so small & at the height of the brake pedal. It's more suitable for the "roll-over" method described by Tanner. It's more of a rock the foot sideways action.

vwong

11-13-2006, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Sharpointer
I feel it would be a lot easier to do if the pedels were designed from the ground up.

I'm assuming you're talking about bottom hinged gas pedal. I don't think that is the problem. Both my Prelude and Integra are top hinged (just like the Audi), and I was able to heel-toe easily. My TSX is bottom hinged and I can also heel-toe easily. What I think is the problem is the height difference between the brade pedal and the gas pedal. The brake pedal in the Audi is so much higher than the gas pedal. When lightly on the brake, it is difficult to reach the gas pedal. You really have to "roll" you foot over to blip the throttle.

chubbychynk

11-13-2006, 09:32 PM

I've given up trying in normal driving. I'm sure it would come much easier under hard braking, though I'm not about to go testing on the track at 100+ mph. I wonder if the electronic throttle also plays a part. Like maybe it cuts off response when under normal braking. My cobra had cable throttle and it was the easiest car ever to heel toe with, whether on street or track.

drkstrA4

11-13-2006, 09:41 PM

ever since i learned its like 2nd nature....its hard to turn it off. its almost like you angle your foot at 120 degrees, use the arch of your foot for the brake, and use the toes to blip the throttle. It does take a while to get it down.

Re5pectThe_Cuz

11-13-2006, 09:45 PM

yea thats for sure. every nice banked turn or big turn you see (101west to 405 south interchange) love it! used to do it w/o even knowing

quattshot

11-14-2006, 12:22 PM

I've been heel/toe for 10 years now. I started when I was introduced to AutoXing. The pedal placement is important as far as horizontal and height placement. It doesn't matter if there top or bottom mounted. Although the Bimmers and Porsches are from the bottom and have good placement. Try playing around with a nice aftermarket pedal kit to at least move the pedals closer together. Can't do much about the height. Once you change pedals it will be easier to blip with less angle. I heel/toe ALL THE TIME. Matching revs keeps your car balanced and smooth. Who likes jerky transmissions? Plus, and you know your out there people...your not supposed to slow your car down by downshifting. Your either matching revs to select a lower gear or you put the car in neutral and apply the brakes to stop it. Just had to add that petpeeve in there.lol

lucifer

11-14-2006, 01:24 PM

its definitely about the placement...i personally use the "roll over" method someone mentioned before...our pedal setups are not easy to heel toe (and i have big feet too)

Re5pectThe_Cuz

11-14-2006, 01:28 PM

i noticed that different shoes affect your heel-toe action as well. big fat skater shoes make it MUCH harder. but wear some chuchs/converse and theyll be easier

B7AudiA4

11-15-2006, 10:50 AM

I think ones of the pedals are higher and makes it different to heel toe. =P

konijay

11-15-2006, 11:32 AM

would making the gas pedal "thicker" help? it's just a lot lower than the brake pedal....

If i made it thicker, would it feel the same?

John1.8T

11-15-2006, 11:53 AM

RS4 Pedals help.

the gas pedal cover brings it up a bit.

I've never had any problem with or without the pedals. I use the ball of my foot on the brake and just roll to blip the throttle.

Bob58

11-15-2006, 12:07 PM

Thank 60 Minutes for the pedal configuration.

Tanner

11-15-2006, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Sharpointer
so you keep your toes on the break,and move your heel to the gas is what your saying

Not really, not enough room to do that. I have half of my foot (upper part of the foot but not the toes) on the brakes and the other half on the gas.

lucifer

11-15-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Bob58
Thank 60 Minutes for the pedal configuration.

huh?

Tanner

11-15-2006, 01:32 PM

Rewind the clock when the Audi 5000S was around in the late 80s.

It was really the placement of the brake and gas together but not the space between that caused drivers to mistaken the gas pedal for the brake then the car would "drive off madly" while the driver swore he/she had the foot flat on the brakes.

It happened to me but luckily the car didn't go mad in reverse into a house across the street that was lived in by a cop.

lucifer

11-15-2006, 01:38 PM

whoa thats pretty bad...the only older audi ive driven was a Audi 90 that i believe was a '93, it was an automatic and i didnt notice the placement being that weird, but then again i drove the car 8 years ago and only for about an hour...was it really that easy to mistake between the pedals?

Tanner

11-15-2006, 01:44 PM

I drove that 5000S for about a year and it wasn't until a year later when I did that. Odd. Gladly it was a week before that incident that the shift-lock was installed by the dealer, which is basically standard equipment on all automatic cars nowadays.

I think it was a combination of the pedals close and that it was shifted more to the left that contributed to this human mistake.

And leave it to 60 Minutes for their false information and them sinking Audi almost to the point they were about to pull out of the North American market

Sharpointer

11-15-2006, 04:28 PM

thats a crazy story. Im not a big fan of cops lol, and thats an understatement.

I'll keep working on my heel-toe until i get it right. I've been practicing its just not as easy i was expecting and i thought it was becuase of the pedal configuration.

Bob58

11-15-2006, 05:28 PM

I had an '82 4000S Automatic before the change in pedal configuration.

On my "test drive" I, damned near, blew through a red light when I accidentally stepped on BOTH the brake and gas simultaneuosly while wearing combat boots.

The pedals used to be very close together and at the same height. This was also before the interlock, since installed on all autos. Granted, the interlock would not have helped me in that instance since I was already in D, but.......................

I, later, had an '85 5000S, 5 speed manual. This was the year group (in automatic form) that 60 Minutes crucified.

The pedals had the same layout (plus clutch, obviously) as my 82 4000s.

lucifer

11-15-2006, 05:31 PM

bastads

4-tified

11-16-2006, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Sharpointer
I feel it would be a lot easier to do if the pedels were designed from the ground up. BMW's are made this way...i gotta try it out out on a buddies bmw sometime to see if that makes any difference.

I had an e46 3 series before my A4.
The h/t is pretty much the same between the 2.
I might even give my A4 the nod this time around.

I'm sure some of this depends on your foot and definately your footwear.
The technique I use, and it seems most experienced users will as well, is not to literally use your "heel" and "toes" but to use the left part of your foot for the brake and the sort of rotate the right side of your foot onto the throttle to "blip" it.

In my A4 I find it's easier to not just "blip" but to modulate engine rpm for very smooth rev matching.
My BMW was a bit harder to modulate rpm but as easy to blip.

Modern brake/throttle placement is better than in some past cars. Perhaps a literal "heel/toe" would be needed on cars where the brake pedal is far from the throttle pedal and a simple foot twist or rotation will not give the needed control. In that scenario you would need a more lateral foot placement where your toe's are on the brake and part of your heel is working the throttle.
Most engineers get it right and better these days I think. [:D]

4-tified

11-16-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Tanner
Rewind the clock when the Audi 5000S was around in the late 80s.

It was really the placement of the brake and gas together but not the space between that caused drivers to mistaken the gas pedal for the brake then the car would "drive off madly" while the driver swore he/she had the foot flat on the brakes.

It happened to me but luckily the car didn't go mad in reverse into a house across the street that was lived in by a cop.

I had an '81 5000 turbo. The pedal placement was fine, just like any other car out there. Remember, the cars in question had an auto trans like mine was.
I believe some years later, one lady latter said she simply pressed the wrong pedal. She went for what she thought was the brake but it was the throttle.
I'm sure the shock of killing her child made it easier for her to blame something or someone else when it was actually her fault.

For the longest time they were actually trying to blame Audi engineering by saying that by pushing the brake the engine would accelerate.
It took engineers in the court room to call the BS on that one. However, the STUPIDITY of believing that the brake system was tied to the throttle took a long time to disappear.

quattshot

11-16-2006, 01:55 PM

4-tified

11-16-2006, 02:01 PM

Tanner

11-16-2006, 02:02 PM

Easier said that done... people panic and when one panics, all hell breaks loose!

4-tified

11-17-2006, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Tanner
Easier said that done... people panic and when one panics, all hell breaks loose!

You mean all "heel" breaks loose, right? [:p]

Panic is yet another part of bad driver lack of control.
It's not a reason for accidents, it's merely an excuse.
Still, inability to control one's car and their own panic is the drivers responsibility.

Licenses are much too easy to get in this country.
There is a reason why bad drivers should pay more in insurance premiums, they cause more damage as they also cause more accidents.

It was a FACT that those Audi's did not accelerate on their own, especially when one pressed the brake.

Now, with the new Electronic Throttle Controls, instant acceleration is more of design/engineering issue.
I can see how that technology can cause problems not created by bad driving.
Still, if the car begins to accelerate more than the driver intended, use the brakes. Modern brakes are pretty darn powerful. Most engines don't have the power to overcome the brakes.
But, I do see the potential for problems with ETC.