Byeeee Hattaaaa

[Turbo Nerd]

Me personally if I wear to swap any engines in a B5 it would be, the I5 20v turbo then second a VR6T. I think a B5 with a 20v would be hot shit, but throwing a jap motor.... I'm straight as fuck. For the record I'd take a 1.8 AEB all day over 4g63, sr20, ect. blah blah. Good luck with your build.

[Four Play]

lol 700hp and 612tq

Fixed...

These aren't Honda motors we are talking about.

[armys4]

Good luck with your build, definitely a one of a kind car, and assuredly fast. And those engines are solid and totally proven. But can we get somewhere else to put engine swap threads than in the B5 S4 forum?

[B5tard]

lol 700hpq

This car would be if Bastard and Lancer had a baby.

[csre9]

Officially the highest view/post ratio lmao

[AAAA]

Brian (Haenszel20v) made over 650whp on the setup I just said. Notice the 600whp+

It takes a bit more boost but they make the numbers. I have contemplated using a bare bones basic setup like I described, on my 700whp 1.8T project. Just to prove that they are great motors, because they really are!

haenszel made that in his transverse setup in the 91 jetta. He was likely not close to even 500awhp when he put it in the audi. and there was/is TONS more to that setup to get 600/650++. Not saying all the stuff you didn't mention wouldn't also have to be added to the evo setup, but it wasn't even close to as simple a setup as you said.

[DW Garage]

haenszel made that in his transverse setup in the 91 jetta. He was likely not close to even 500awhp when he put it in the audi. and there was/is TONS more to that setup to get 600/650++. Not saying all the stuff you didn't mention wouldn't also have to be added to the evo setup, but it wasn't even close to as simple a setup as you said.

So the extra 10% drivetrain loss (65whp) ate up over 150whp? Hmmmmm...

[AAAA]

So the extra 10% drivetrain loss (65whp) ate up over 150whp? Hmmmmm...

no, its not that simple an equation. First, things changed from the swap, ie intake manifold, exhaust manifold, exhaust setup, and he added water meth to the a4.

650fwhp is 783 crank. (650/.83, considering 17% fwd loss)
783chp is 564awhp (760*.72, considering 28% awd loss)

So considering it being the exact setup, which is wasn't (didn't rev it as high, different turbo, manifolds, exhaust, intercooler), it would be a 86whp difference. But the fact that all these items changed, it was probably about 500awhp. Ask him yourself. He only lives in my house and I helped build some of it and watched every min of it.

[S4NORICE]

I can't wait to see a brave person to do a




with naz

[GURUMAN]

So my goal off 720 whp will equal

986 HP...


NICE

[AAAA]

So my goal off 720 whp will equal

986 HP...


NICE

no, 720awhp would be 1000chp (720/.72)

Nice, even number

[Clint@R.A.I.]

no, 720awhp would be 1000chp (720/.72)

Nice, even number

? Thats over a 25% DT loss...

it would be 720*1.22 = 878hp

He would need 780whp for 1000chp

[shorterthanrich]

? Thats over a 25% DT loss...

it would be 720*1.22 = 878hp

He would need 780whp for 1000chp

It seems our drivetrain loss is higher than 22% from what I've read here and there.

Also, you can't do it backwards. Watch:

720*1.22 = 878
878*0.78 = 685

685≠720

[AAAA]

? Thats over a 25% DT loss...

it would be 720*1.22 = 878hp

He would need 780whp for 1000chp

There's so much fail here. the term is drivetrain LOSS, so you start with crank number and calculate wheel. to go in reverse of that calculation, you divide by 1.00 (100%) - the loss percentage which i used .28 (28%, this is what awe uses).

So you divide 720 by (1-.28) or .72 and get the crank number. NOOB. at least you got some good h20 pics for me though

the other part of your fail is mutiplying by 1.22??? WTF is that Clint??

[Das General]

Clint is an engineering major too.

[Rhinop21]

First of all deb I love you. You are a cock but dsm ftw.
Now..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2n6ujHAdGk

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2izAlxAY8UY

The 4g63 will make over 1000awhp, no gay4 will do that. These engines are amazing. I cant wait to see it in an a4.

This is awesome.

[S4NORICE]

to go in reverse of that calculation, you divide by 1.00 (100%) - the loss percentage which i used .28 (28%, this is what awe uses).

720 by (1-.28) or .72 and get the crank number.

^^ That math is absolutely correct.

Where:
x=crank hp (100%)
720= whp
28%= drivetrain loss

equation would be this:

720/(100%-28%) = x/100
720/72 = x/100
cross multiply
72x=72000
x=7200/72
x=1000chp

[GURUMAN]

^^ That math is absolutely correct.

Where:
x=crank hp (100%)
720= whp
28%= drivetrain loss

equation would be this:

720/(100%-28%) = x/100
720/72 = x/100
cross multiply
72x=72000
x=7200/72
x=1000chp

I feel good

[CrackedDSM]

Great build thread, thumbs up.


One point though, someone talked about an Evo not being able to go nines on bolt ons alone. That is a lie.


Search on Youtube for "STM's EVO" or "STM's 'ricer' evo". It has broken the 9 sec barrier with bolt-ons alone, 100% stock unopened block besides some ARP studs and aftermarket headgasket. One other point I need to make is the point about DSM transmissions being made of glass. This is also incorrect. Our DSM Auto's have gone into the 9's with nothing but a transcooler, and a higher stall TC. The manual trannies, like someone said above me, are also strong to a point. That point is when people get retarded and start wanting to be "fast and furious" and bang the gears in. With any stock tranny, if you slam the gears in like a drunken irishman beating his wife, sooner or later it'll break. Combine that with people revving them to 9k without any remorse, and there you go.

[GURUMAN]

Great build thread, thumbs up.


One point though, someone talked about an Evo not being able to go nines on bolt ons alone. That is a lie.


Search on Youtube for "STM's EVO" or "STM's 'ricer' evo". It has broken the 9 sec barrier with bolt-ons alone, 100% stock unopened block besides some ARP studs and aftermarket headgasket. One other point I need to make is the point about DSM transmissions being made of glass. This is also incorrect. Our DSM Auto's have gone into the 9's with nothing but a transcooler, and a higher stall TC. The manual trannies, like someone said above me, are also strong to a point. That point is when people get retarded and start wanting to be "fast and furious" and bang the gears in. With any stock tranny, if you slam the gears in like a drunken irishman beating his wife, sooner or later it'll break. Combine that with people revving them to 9k without any remorse, and there you go.

You know my friend, I found out nothing is all true in these youtube videos.

If David Buschur himself (arrogant DUCT that he is in real life) claims he's done it, I call BS

[CrackedDSM]

You know my friend, I found out nothing is all true in these youtube videos.

If David Buschur himself (arrogant DUCT that he is in real life) claims he's done it, I call BS

I would agree with you about David Doucher. DB's Evo is full interior somewhat, he's just gotten a few things removed in places you can't see. But the only reason I refer to youtube is I don't have the link handy with me. More than a few people I know are personal friends with Emery@STM, and all of the STM boys and girls. They post routinely on our forums as well, and keep us constantly updated. Unlike DB, their actually quite respectable, and tell the truth. Straight shooters I guess the word is.


Also, I have to correct some misinformation in my post. The STM Evo made it to 10.049, full interior/bolt ons. Then they rebuilt the engine and stripped it to make it a serious contender for the AMS Evo's title of worlds fastest Evo 8-9.


Last edit. Link for STM's ricer Evo's 10.0 run Linky linky.

[Tech/Sales@VAST]

Someone do a Scion TC motor next it will have some displacement real similar to the 2.7.

[Arckain]

CrackedDSM and Rhino thank you! DSM ftw! I personally love DSM's and Audi's, so I can't wait to see more of this 4g63 in an A4.

[CrackedDSM]

Someone do a Scion TC motor next it will have some displacement real similar to the 2.7.

That's a good idea, but the TC's motor is a little pricey for parts. Something like a grand for an exhaust.


If you wanted a 2.7, just take the 2G's 4G64 2.4l, and use the Brian Crower stroker kit. It strokes it out to a 2.6-2.7. It has a taller deck than a 4G63 as well, so you wouldn't have to worry all that much about the typical long term issues you run into with stroker motors. I think the OP's main plan is to build a 4G because of how cheap they are to make power with, but it would be interesting to see a stroked TC motor. The TC's already have a torquey motor as it is, wonder what it would do with some extra stroke.

[B5tard]

Fucking around with transcoolers is one thing.

but modifying the stall?

sorry, thats not a fucking bolton.


you may as well call rods and pistons boltons at that point.

chips, exhaust, intakes. OK boltons.

but as soon as you are cracking things open.. sorry, not a bolt-on, you are building at that point.


sorry, im repeating "that point" im drunk.

[AWD87]

who no 2jz?

[Rhinop21]

Moar pics!

[diabolical1]

who no 2jz?

because everyone knows the 4JZ is better ... duh ...

[Four Play]

Fucking around with transcoolers is one thing.

but modifying the stall?

sorry, thats not a fucking bolton.


you may as well call rods and pistons boltons at that point.

chips, exhaust, intakes. OK boltons.

but as soon as you are cracking things open.. sorry, not a bolt-on, you are building at that point.


sorry, im repeating "that point" im drunk.

And STM is definitely a badass place, very good prices and SUPER quick shipping. I ordered their oil pan bolt kit and a few other odds and ends while I had my trans out. And I'll be ordering through them from now on as I'm still waiting for parts from another tuners vendor that are going to be useless when they arrive now that my trans is back on and will be back on the road in the next few days

[Four Play]

That's a good idea, but the TC's motor is a little pricey for parts. Something like a grand for an exhaust.


If you wanted a 2.7, just take the 2G's 4G64 2.4l, and use the Brian Crower stroker kit. It strokes it out to a 2.6-2.7. It has a taller deck than a 4G63 as well, so you wouldn't have to worry all that much about the typical long term issues you run into with stroker motors. I think the OP's main plan is to build a 4G because of how cheap they are to make power with, but it would be interesting to see a stroked TC motor. The TC's already have a torquey motor as it is, wonder what it would do with some extra stroke.

The motor in a TC is from a Camry is it not? A 4G63 is alright, but putting a Camry motor in an S4 is worse than sticking your balls into a meat grinder...

[sean1.8t]

Me personally if I wear to swap any engines in a B5 it would be, the I5 20v turbo then second a VR6T. I think a B5 with a 20v would be hot shit, but throwing a jap motor.... I'm straight as fuck. For the record I'd take a 1.8 AEB all day over 4g63, sr20, ect. blah blah. Good luck with your build.

have you ever done actual work with these motors? it's obvious that you haven't.

[nefkntym]

Honestly, it could be a really fun car. Audi's drivetrain and suspension design with the 4G63 power plant is a pretty cool match.

For those that are poo-pooing on the 4G63, you need to own one to appreciate the power they can make for very little money.

The fact of the matter is that the DSM body and drivetrain is junk. Trannies are like glass and the AWD system is completely obsolete.

Personally, I'd go with a 6-bolt 4G63 and bump up the pistons to a higher compression ratio. Out with the 7.8:1 and in with an 8.0:1.

I can't agree with you more. I have a love for the 4g63 and audi's. They are both great.

[Trigger Happy]

i disagree.... my CRX is defiantly more tunable than my S... but maybe i'm not in the know about these things.... what software allows me to burn my own maps on my ECU for my S similar to chome or uberdata ECU hacks for hondas.....

when i first read the thread I was in disgrace of the swap... i just don't like evos specifically for their ease of tuning (subie>mitsu) however i didn't comment... i feel now after all the flaming it is time to chime in... and no i don't have "4 rings" next to my user name, but the guys who do and are hating this swap i challenge you to make a better build.... i can see how this could potentially be advantageous... in theory the motor is lighter, and smaller... push it further back against the firewall to help weight distribution..... I remember sometime around 2004/5 when a small tuning company called Jun teamed with tanabe (i believe) to build the first sr20 powered 350z.... it got flamed too.... until it passed the mopar team's viper mid-drift in D1 competition..... I say keep with it... and let’s see what happens.... i hope its successful.

Video of this please

[Chknkatsu]

whats with everyone being so butthurt over putting a 4g63 in a b5. let the guy open some doors

[nefkntym]

Updates please. I want to know more about this.

[Coopa]

Well this is a thread full of tension..

I suppose I'll be positive.

-Its your money
-Its your car
-Its your motor
-Do whatever the fuck you like

Personally, I think you should somehow make a large amount of money and put a w12 biturbo in. Torque much?

Anyways, definetly different build you got going here. Good luck with it

[WonPointAteTea]

is it my choice of swap? no, not really but i still think its cool that someone is trying something different, and i can appreciate someone trying to make a car go fast in what ever way they see fit.

Dont get me wrong i love my audi and many of the other euro engines that were offered, but if everytime someone tries something new everyone jumps on the "thats retarded" bandwagon, how are new things ever going to happen? And maybe through this swap some knowledge is gained about the audi that can be applied elsewhere and improve things (not necessarily for this motor swap in particular but maybe some knowledge about the stock wiring setup or the suspension is gained or some new diagram is posted and shared or who knows what else) and if everyone shuns someone right off the bat, people could miss out on that info. I just wouldnt call fail until i actually saw something fall on its face. Now if someone starts trying to stuff a geo metro motor in there, then i might have to raise an eyebrow haha

its your car, do what you want, just be sure to post up either way.

[jibberjive]

Random thought that was echoed a couple of times in this thread that I think would actually be WAY cool, has anyone ever swapped in the I5 motor from the urS4? Would be sick!

[SOFME]

Video of this please

can't find the video... but here is the guy who did it... first one was later part of the 05' D1 season, and a second one in the 06' season

http://www.chrisforsberg.com/gallery...s06/?g2_page=2



and it wasn't jun/tanabe.... i stand corrected...

[SOFME]

nefkntym

love the sig btw... thats why i keep and ashermans with me all the time