Anyone here running RS6 turbos?

[Boris]

Seems credible I mean 500 whp on a quattro? thats way above 600 horse at engine...close to 680..my calc may be off, but even 600 on stock ko4s..

Thats pretty damn amazing if those tiny snails can do that

[mike-2ptzero]

I think lil is 300 is trying to say, 500whp cant be achieved with rs4/ko4s and i agree 1000% its not possible... On some goofy dyno maybe but in reality no.. If so why go through all the cost and trouble to do gt or straight rs6ss if it was

Exactly. Just because some dyno says the car is making 500whp doesn't mean it is actually making that power. If people believed what every dyno read then we would have to say Javad's 80 from 034 Motorsports is making 1000 whp since thats what the dyno at waterfest last year showed.

[lil' is 300]

Seems credible I mean 500 whp on a quattro? thats way above 600 horse at engine...close to 680..my calc may be off, but even 600 on stock ko4s..

Thats pretty damn amazing if those tiny snails can do that

To put that into perspective, a stock RS4 (mind you, better flowing cylinder heads) makes 380 HP stock. We're talking a 300 HP increase with just fueling, tune and some bolt ons? I know these 2.7t's are fast but give me a break.

I believe AWE uses 1.27 to find crank HP. So if you dyno'd 500 wheel on the Mustang, that would be approximately 635 HP. Still a 255HP increase over stock with just fueling and tune and bolt ons?

Like JDM said, if RS4 K04's make 500 wheel what's the point of hybrids and RS6's? Even GTs? Moss made 500 wheel on a Mustang with straight RS6's...if RS4 K04's can make that much power on a Mustang than I guess these RS6 turbos don't make any diff...

I feel like this argument won't go anywhere. EPL will swear by their numbers and we'll keep accusing them of a happy dyno. There are 3 mustang dyno's that have seen tons of 2.7's, and only one happens to make 500 wheel on K04s....

[Dr. Jekyll]

Is 530 whp for a GT28RS car, stock block on 93 oct out of the question? What about 470-480 whp on a GT25r car, stock block, 93 oct?

Both those numbers seem pretty reasonable to me.

DAP put down 490 whp on 104 oct and open DP's. It doesn't seem too far off to say a maxed out K04 car on racegas and open dumps is about equal to a GT25 car on 93 oct.

Again, I think it's hard to say anyone's dyno is inaccurate. There are just way too many variables going into the mix. Not to mention, who's to say what is accurate? It's a freakin number.

[JMTx86]

From what Ive read the gt35 aren't much bigger then the ko4's. . .


I believe that greg said he was most likely seeing 500whp with his gt28 setup and he tunes wasn't all that crazy so im sure 530 whp is a doable, however id worry about shooting a rod. . . .

[JMTx86]

Is 530 whp for a GT28RS car, stock block on 93 oct out of the question? What about 470-480 whp on a GT25r car, stock block, 93 oct?

Both those numbers seem pretty reasonable to me.

DAP put down 490 whp on 104 oct and open DP's. It doesn't seem too far off to say a maxed out K04 car on racegas and open dumps is about equal to a GT25 car on 93 oct.

Again, I think it's hard to say anyone's dyno is inaccurate. There are just way too many variables going into the mix. Not to mention, who's to say what is accurate? It's a freakin number.

I think dyno charts are worthless, unless you compare a stock s4, apr, giac and others on the same dyno on the same day. 500whp is great but you cant use that power if you cant drive, bring your car to the track run 1/4 mile. . . that what I like to see and read about.

[generationjdm]

The highest k04 whp car at vagmotorsport made 403whp maxed out on race gas when i called them today, there small gt25r kit makes 470whp on pump at 21lbs on the same dyno and 530whp with the boost turned up a little bit on race gas... So thats a pretty good idea of the power differences..

[revhards4]

why in the world would anyone run rs6 turbo's? It's still KKK garbage!?!?!?!

I find it amusing that these turbo's are "the new hype"...people are afraid to do a real turbo upgrade like a Garrett dual BB turbo and they are willing to put these things on with "so called" minor modifications...I read that you have to

trim the compressor covers or modify your chassis, redo the downpipes or reweld the flanges, yada yada...if you go that far put a 28r on...

these turbo's are not reasonably priced-$3500
2x Garret's will run ya $2000 spend the othe $1500 on the same things you'd need to make the garrets work as it would the rs6's

[lil' is 300]

^ lol easier said than done. Believe me, Garretts will cost WAY more than RS6's. In a few months, my ride will be living proof. With Garretts you need new DPs, headers, fitment and clearencing sorted out, new coolant and oil lines just to start. And then what would you do for fueling and a tune? Believe me, shit adds up very fast.

The whole "why not just go GT" theory just doesn't make sense. You need way more parts and there is no support for fueling or tuning. If getting GT's on this car running well is as cheap as you're making it out to be, there would be a lot more people with homebrew GT's...as of now I only know of 1, and it's Gregs ASP hybrid GT. Besides, if RS6's can make more power than the engine can handle, why even go GT's? Unless you do a complete engine build and build up the block...even cylinder heads to use the power at higher RPM... it gets costly.

[Devious27t]

^ lol easier said than done. Believe me, Garretts will cost WAY more than RS6's. In a few months, my ride will be living proof. With Garretts you need new DPs, headers, fitment and clearencing sorted out, new coolant and oil lines just to start. And then what would you do for fueling and a tune? Believe me, shit adds up very fast.

The whole "why not just go GT" theory just doesn't make sense. You need way more parts and there is no support for fueling or tuning. If getting GT's on this car running well is as cheap as you're making it out to be, there would be a lot more people with homebrew GT's...as of now I only know of 1, and it's Gregs ASP hybrid GT. Besides, if RS6's can make more power than the engine can handle, why even go GT's? Unless you do a complete engine build and build up the block...even cylinder heads to use the power at higher RPM... it gets costly.

LOL seriously. yeay for intarweb tuners. locally we have K04 cars, an RS6 car, A GT28R powered car and a GT2871R powered car. The RS6 kit is much much easier to deal with, but what is direct experience these days

[10SecS4]

The highest k04 whp car at vagmotorsport made 403whp maxed out on race gas when i called them today, there small gt25r kit makes 470whp on pump at 21lbs on the same dyno and 530whp with the boost turned up a little bit on race gas... So thats a pretty good idea of the power differences..

Then why are the trap speeds of their GT25R S4s similar to that of some OEM RS4 K04 S4s?

[generationjdm]

Your comparing I believe the s4 with the spare tire still in and full weight and stock ics running moderate boost 21-22lbs..Trap speed on pump gas was 125mph... It wasn't JP'S car or Steve's the run I was told was done just last week in Canada, i will get all the facts tomorrow and post them

[10SecS4]

Bzzzzzt, wrong answer.

It was definitely on leaded race gas. I remember the post.

Who told you it was on stock intercoolers?

[generationjdm]

I just spoked to Alex yesterday and thats what i was told 93oct on stock ics with spare tire and full weight

[generationjdm]

Marc your not implying that the ko4ss will make close to the same power as the gts r you? Im sure the average tune is better on the ko4s but will have to see what my cars like after vast tunes it with there new software when I'm done.

[10SecS4]

I just spoked to Alex yesterday and thats what i was told 93oct on stock ics with spare tire and full weight

Well Alex is wrong...

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2468775.phtml

[10SecS4]

Marc your not implying that the ko4ss will make close to the same power as the gts r you? Im sure the average tune is better on the ko4s but will have to see what my cars like after vast tunes it with there new software when I'm done.

GT25R on pump will be about the same as RS4 K04 on race. The GT25Rs are nothing to write home about. I'd go full RS6 long before I go GT25R. They're much cheaper too if you know how to find stuff.

[JMTx86]

GT25R on pump will be about the same as RS4 K04 on race. The GT25Rs are nothing to write home about. I'd go full RS6 long before I go GT25R. They're much cheaper too if you know how to find stuff.

Ive been looking on so many forums for rs6 turbos and have came up with nothing (well atleast price right). Hook me up with a link or 2

[generationjdm]

I'm running the gt2560ss which is a gt28r the turbo it's a gt28 compressor wheel with a gt25 turbine wheel, this is a lot more turbo then the regular gt2554r and the regular rs6... Cost break down RS6SS 3500.00 fueling 3350.00 ko4 piping and install kit 600.00 dps 1500.00 totaling $8950.00 And you still have to mod and make the RS6SS fit which cost money also...

GT setup if you can get manifolds 2) GT turbos 1650.00 manifolds 2000.00 waste gates 38mm total 400.00 dps 1500.00 ko4 piping and install kit 600.00 silicon elbows for the ko4 piping to fit the gt turbos 75.00 Total of 4 lines that need to be replaced 2 on the drivers side and 2 on the passenger side the other lines can be retained totaling 75.00 home brew fueling with tune 2000.00. totaling $8300.00 for the gt stuff..

Modifying the stock manifolds is pretty basic, I mocked up a set, if i could weld this would be simple to do.. Minus 2000.00 if you modify the stock manifolds which brings the total to $6300.00

Vags complete kit is under 10k for everything so hows the rs6ss cheaper? Even if you get the turbos for 3k there still more with less parts... GT turbos no cutting or modifying with the kit or if you got the right manifolds... I personally think it's a know brainier to just get the stock manifolds modified and run the gt25ss or gt28ss....

With the gtss you don't have to run 31lbs and race gas to make 480-500whp 21-23lbs on pump gas with the gtss, it's always better for the engine life and parts to run less boost to make the same or more power... P.S to anyone who don't think the stock manifolds can crack I have a cracked set sitting in my garage as we speak from vast performance, he gave them to me for mock up...

[generationjdm]

Marc why don't you call Vag and ask some questions to see how true that run was or not, and get the mod list...

[lil' is 300]

1. Majority of people won't be buying RS6 turbos new. I bought them used and rebuildt them for a lot less than you think.
2. Fueling isn't $3350, and a custom GT tune with fueling is going to be more than$2000. Software alone is going to be a good chunk of change...and who do you go to?
3. 4 oil/coolant lines for $75 a bit optimistic on price, no?
4. Manifolds might cost that much once built, but it's going to cost a lot of money to mock up, fit, fix, fit again etc... Going to be paying $ for labor.
5. Holy shit, 7th page?!

I know RS6's can be done less than $9000. And have the feeling the price of 8300 for GT's would be muuch more when everything is said and done.

Do you plan to build the engine to use the bigger snails?

[generationjdm]

The fittings and line r cheap 4 banjos and 4 barb fittings 28.00 5 feet of braided -4 line 8.00 a foot under 70.00 bucks, i've built honestly hundreds of lines in the last 10 years its much cheaper then people think... J.Moss I thought said 3350.00 for fueling, anyway vast has a new software they can tune the full rpm range at each point from my understanding and set the rev limit to what ever you wish.. If the build stretches into nov then the motor will get at least rods over the winter... If someone wishes to do a rs6 setup from new parts its cheaper with less work to do a gt kit like vags...

[lil' is 300]

Even after you buy new connecting rods and build the bottom end?

[generationjdm]

Same thing with the rs6ss no different, they recommend the bottom end built... You only need rods if you wish to shoot for over 500whp

[esss_pho]

how hard is it to instal rods with with new bearings in order to handle the power...really interested in the rs6 turbo conversion

[revhards4]

WHO FREAKING CARES ABOUT THIS ANYMORE?????

THE S4 IS NOT A DRAG CAR, NEVER HAS NEVER WILL!!!!!!!

MARC 10SECS4 IS LUCKY TO HAVE RUN THOSE TIMES AND IT ONLY COST HIM THE COMPLETE STRIP DOWN OF A BEAUTIFUL S4.

RUNNING WITHOUT A DASHBOARD AND AIRBAGS NO LONGER MAKES IT A STREET CAR....IT MAKES IT A PIECE OF SHIT! IT'S AGAINST THE STATE LAW AND ONCE YOU REMOVE YOUR FACTORY AIRBAGS FROM YOUR VEHICLE AND GET INTO AN ACCIDENT IT IS NO LONGER COVERED BY YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY!

EVERY AUDI TUNER,ASP AWE, ETC THINKS WE MUST ALL BE MILLIONAIRES TO SPEND $10-$15 GRAND ON A TURBO UPGRADE...THAT DOESN'T EVEN WORK THAT WELL.

THE GT KITS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE TO THE OEM KO4'S...BUT OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT.............................

IF THESE CARS WERE TO TRULY BECOME EXTREMELY FAST THERE SHOULD BE A BACKING WITH TUNERS BUT THERE IS NOT....EVERYONE TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THE AUDI OWNER'S AND THEY ACCEPT BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER!

Now that I have got most of my frustrations out is it that imposible for a company to make headers for gt turbo's at a reasonable price...nope!^^^ refer to what I just said above and click on most tuner's websites and gander at some of these prices.

[Devious27t]

WHO FREAKING CARES ABOUT THIS ANYMORE?????

THE S4 IS NOT A DRAG CAR, NEVER HAS NEVER WILL!!!!!!!

MARC 10SECS4 IS LUCKY TO HAVE RUN THOSE TIMES AND IT ONLY COST HIM THE COMPLETE STRIP DOWN OF A BEAUTIFUL S4.

RUNNING WITHOUT A DASHBOARD AND AIRBAGS NO LONGER MAKES IT A STREET CAR....IT MAKES IT A PIECE OF SHIT! IT'S AGAINST THE STATE LAW AND ONCE YOU REMOVE YOUR FACTORY AIRBAGS FROM YOUR VEHICLE AND GET INTO AN ACCIDENT IT IS NO LONGER COVERED BY YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY!

EVERY AUDI TUNER,ASP AWE, ETC THINKS WE MUST ALL BE MILLIONAIRES TO SPEND $10-$15 GRAND ON A TURBO UPGRADE...THAT DOESN'T EVEN WORK THAT WELL.

THE GT KITS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE TO THE OEM KO4'S...BUT OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT.............................

IF THESE CARS WERE TO TRULY BECOME EXTREMELY FAST THERE SHOULD BE A BACKING WITH TUNERS BUT THERE IS NOT....EVERYONE TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THE AUDI OWNER'S AND THEY ACCEPT BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER!

Now that I have got most of my frustrations out is it that imposible for a company to make headers for gt turbo's at a reasonable price...nope!^^^ refer to what I just said above and click on most tuner's websites and gander at some of these prices.

LOUD NOISES! I understand your frustration and complaint but dont see you getting your hands dirty to show people JUST how cheaply a setup can be done. Whether Generation is right or wrong at least he is practicing what he preaches and is attempting to build a working GT kit on his car. If you truly think they will be a cheaper alternative by all means, show us the light.

[generationjdm]

Here we go again, I never said spool at 3500 rpms I said 3800 rpms and the gt2560 is a gt28..
Please stop with the 500whp your embarrassing yourself by saying that your also giving epl a bad name by claiming that.. You maxed out 42lb injectors at 88% your lucky to be making 430whp...
Right all your numbers aren't out of a hat ie I'm making 500whp but never seen it on any realistic dyno, if my car ran in the right lane @ Sacramento and the wind was blowing 23.8mph out of the northeast I could project my car running 10.63.99 at 136.999mph but the temps outside need to be exactly 51 degrees and Jupiter and mars need to be lined up at 9:31pm on a 20% humid night which would make my car faster then your car Mike...

I guess the manufacture of the Garrett r also pulling numbers from a hat... This is what a hypocrite you r, yesterday a guy said he made 220whp on a stock s4 and your response was "let me guess it was a dyno-jet" but now all the sudden it's different when it comes to you..

Post your 500whp results, it's funny I asked the question to 2-3 major audi shop guys one being a major software guy who chimed in this thread and I ask r you saying you can make 630+chp on stock rs4/ko4ss they never answered I asked the question 4 times I think we got the answer..

Marc we all can't always agree with you and if you used your knowledge in a positive way people might understand you more but your to one sided on everything.. I will have a properly running gt car that will make usable power, I do things a little different then most people thats why I've always had cars that achieved abnormal results. I'm not a do what everyone else does person...

[generationjdm]

Revhard You've Been In The Green Car Many Times On Pump Gas, What Do You Think My Green Car Would Of Did To Marcs Blue Car On The Highway On Pump Gas?

[generationjdm]

I never build a dsm in my life were did that come from. Also I've only been speaking about the gtss since 4 weeks ago so your wrong again.. Listen to me Marc and you will understand something if I ever decide to build a serious car you couldn't win for a few reasons 1 you don't have the heart 2 you cant do it out of used/free/junkyard parts..I actually have some old dyno sheets lying around and revhard was standing right there on a dozen or more runs.. Mustang dyno with the largest roller. You brought my name up after i decided to leave you alone with this childish crap..

[Frozen S4]

Now your car does 190 + ? Looked at gear charts lately? How did you verify it ? With EcuX or Vag ? LOL, with the secret GPS / lateral G's channel ?

[generationjdm]

I think we finally see a pattern developing here

[Boris]

either way, I just think gt 28's and rs6s and any size like that are fine..Ko3's should have never been int hat dam car. Should have come with KO4's stock

It s twin turbo plant, and quattro, is the perfect platform for this type of power. Its also heavy, so this power helps...

I just bought Ko4s for 1000 bucks (used) theyre going to Blouch , get refurbished and become hybrids for 500 +/-.... thats a 1500 hybrid ko4/997 turbo for 1500, thats not bad..
Im installing that crap myself, withall the other crap.. my costs of parts are below 5 grand...for easy 400 whp tuned by probably EPL or some other

Thats a dam good deal to me..and It has silver leathr! shoot I beat off in tthat car all the time1!

[revhards4]

I never said your car is specifically a drag car...in my eyes it's nothing but a pile of junk. No cage or saefty equipment to repeatedly run 10's...just a drivers seat and prolly a cardboard steering wheel.

"There is no state law here that says you have to have airbags in your car. My insurance policy does not state I cannot remove the airbags from the vehicle. I also know of no state law that says I can't remove them either. Keep in mind up until just 10-15 years ago, most cars didn't even come with airbags from the factory. Please get your facts straight."


That is a fantastic story! Should I act like you and ask for timeslips and a video of this, I mean a copy of the ticket and video from the police dash cam to prove this? Don't lecture me on what could have happened or did, I gaurantee if I was the cop that pulled you over you would have been scrambling to find every last interior piece for your fix it ticket. For 1...in your "story" the cop just assumed it was the Audi he pulled over with no visible VIN's because of no dash? New york may be different then michigan but not far off I'm sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by revhards4 View Post
EVERY AUDI TUNER,ASP AWE, ETC THINKS WE MUST ALL BE MILLIONAIRES TO SPEND $10-$15 GRAND ON A TURBO UPGRADE...THAT DOESN'T EVEN WORK THAT WELL.
Wrong again. AWE's complete stage 3 turbo kit lists for only $5,250 actually.

I was talking about the GT kits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by revhards4 View Post
THE GT KITS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE TO THE OEM KO4'S...BUT OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT.............................
Shoulda coulda woulda but haven't been. Does it really come as that big a surprise to you that your typical Audi owner wouldn't want a setup so laggy? Yes I know GenerationJDM will chime in now and say GT25s spool at 3,531.32 RPMs at a theoretical max. flow rate of 448 CFMs @ 26.421 PSI of boost, but he's just pulling numbers out of a hat. He has no hard data. If you want to make serious power, you need 28's and they're gonna be considerably laggier than RS4 or RS6 K04s.

you are the one pulling data from a hat mr. 500whp on stock k04's

Also, Why would anyone talk to you before building an Audi?? You have a k04 car...that's it! Anyone on this board can accomplish what you have by gutting the hell out of their cars. There are many nut huggers out there that think your god in the Audi scene, why I don't know...I'm not one of them. GenerationJDM is building a GT car and the motor is out and he is in the process. That is no B.S. I myself like my k03 car for the time being and if the turbo's go I have some decisions to make. My car is built and being built to go fast around turns, not just in a straight line. My decisions will not incude stripping the car down to bare metal to impress people on Audizine and Audiworld.

[revhards4]

I dont want to argue with you Marc that's not why I'm here. But in all honesty you contradict yourself alot and I'm not internet arguing with you here...just some of the things you say are ridiculous.

[mike-2ptzero]

You've been talking about it for what, a year now already?

STFA and maybe you can figure that out yourself.



BTW marc just because your gearing can go to 198mph by 7500 rpm doesn't mean your under powered k04 car is going to make it there since there are this thing called drag/resistance.

[generationjdm]

So you're now admitting you've never built a fast car? That's why you're saying "if" you "ever decide" to "build a serious car." Which means you've never built one before? Shoulda woulda coulda, but ya didn't. It's obvious you're living in a fantasy world with pipe dreams galore. Like I said, throw me a bone. Show me a dyno sheet, timeslip, video, anything other than you running your mouth. Oh and when's your GT25R S4 gonna be done? You've been talking about it for what, a year now already?

Hey I said I never built a dsm, and if I decided to build another serious car your rust bucket could never when in a real race, for 1 you don't have a legal race car nor do you have the heart to build a serious quality approved car... LOOK AT MY SIG I'VE ONLY BEEN A MEMBER SINCE MARCH OF 2007 SO HOW HAVE I BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A YEAR? LOOKS LIKE YOUR PULLING MORE INFO FROM YOUR HAT. ALSO I HAVEN'T OWNED MY S4 FOR A YEAR GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.. Marc your losing support by the post, people r finally seeing your fabricating stories..

[revhards4]

Marc, GenerationJDM I think was implying if he truly wanted to build a serious S4.

JDM, you got to have a dyno sheet somewhere of the green monster. (I was there during the dyno session so he's not lying) I can assure you his green civic was ridiculous. Here is my old civic hatch that ran 12.0@127 on pump gas on drag radial. Not very good video at all and the car was a handful with the 225/50/15 BFG drag radials, it would spin badly in 1st, 2nd and finally catch 3rd gear. I tried not to spin the tires on the launch and you can tell in the video that the car would fall on it's face or hop the tire...still cracked 1.8's in the 60' Sorry I dont have video of the 11.13 @127 on slicks on pump gas. The car was sold and rumor has it the new owner tuned it on race gas and boost creep to 28-31psi the car made 608whp and trapped 140's.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9...F09FA510A3.htm

^^This was just a street car nothing to serious about breaking records...I can't do the same thing with my S4 because I have no $$

[generationjdm]

I think maybe you hear what you wish to hear Marc "if I ever decide to build another serious car again meaning in the future". Actually my green car wasn't a serious race car it was a serious street car that I drove all year, including the winter... Marc your trying to drag me into another one of your childish insecure discussions again because you probably have nothing else to do... Marc trapping 140 is really not that hard if you buy the right car and you have money to do it... Look your trapping 135 and you have a basic off the shelf kit with weight reduction, if you can do it anyone can..

[mike-2ptzero]

Like I said, I've had it up to 180+ and it was still pulling hard. I have no doubt it would pull all the way to 7500 in 6th with enough road.

But what your not thinking of is that the resistance is going to be much higher even at 185mph then it is at 180 and again at 190. This info has been around for a long long time.