Purpose
Conduct data logs and dyno testing of GIAC, REVO, and APR resulting in the most appropriate software for my 2005.5 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro 6 speed manual.
Approach
Conditions
The data logs were conducted using a Ross Tech vag-com HEX+CAN USB interface with the Turbo button enabled. A Mustang all-wheel-dyno, located at Vivid Racing, was used for the horsepower and torque measurements. Chevron 91 Octane was used through out the whole testing process. Each software flash was on the car for two weeks before it went to the dyno. The fuel pump installed on the car is the "B" pump. There are no modifications other than the software. All data logs were measured on the same road going the same direction. The logs were conducted in 3rd gear starting at 2500 RPM's followed by WOT until redline (6800 RPM's).
Software
GIAC was purchased at Evolution Motorsports, REVO at 20 Valve Tuners, and APR at Billy Boat exhaust. The GIAC was purchased and soon followed by a full refund with no hassles. 20 Valve Tuners also, refunded the full purchase price with no hassles. The APR was purchased since the timed trial would have expired before 2 weeks were reached (they will refund money up to 30 days). APR was tested using the 91 octane program. GIAC was loaded preconfigured for 91 octane. The REVO flash was set with timing at 1 and boost at 6 (set by 20 Valve Tuners).
Results
Air:Fuel - block 31 (calculated by Lambda actual * 14.7)
Fuel Rail Pressure - block 106 note check scale it is not 60 - 120
Boost - block 115 (calculated by (boost actual - 920) * .0145) note 920 is the pressure inside the turbo at idle here in Arizona.
All the exhaust gas temperatures were within normal limits at or below 810 degrees C.
Dyno - note all the dyno numbers are uncorrected. Corrected numbers will be here soon as vivid racing fixes there printer.
APR vs Stock
GIAC vs Stock
REVO vs Stock
order top to bottom = APR - REVO - GIAC
Analysis and Conclusions
The testing went very well. There were many miles driven, a lot of time spent, many risks taken and much money blown, but I enjoyed meeting all the tuners and talking with the software companies. I am in no way affiliated with any software company, and did my best to keep the results fair and even. This report is my personal doing that I am nice enough to share with everyone with hopes of creating some very good technical discussions. I drove way to many miles (at least 110 miles each way 5 times) and spent too much money to have a pissing contest because of personal preferences. Not to mention that I beat the piss out of my baby. I went WOT in the last 6 weeks more than most people will in their A4's life. I am sorry baby... please forgive me!
That being said - I want to thank Mitch at Vivid Racing for doing all my dyno runs, Chris at 20 Valve tuners for loading and adjusting the REVO software, Anders at Evolution Motorsports for loading the GIAC, and Eric and Billy at Billy Boat exhaust for flashing my ECU with APR (and thanks to everyone for flashing me back to stock). If anyone is in the Phoenix area please pay these guys a visit - they were all good to me. Thanks again guys!
In the future I plan on testing new software revisions along with some hardware modifications. GIAC and APR informed me they were testing new software products at the time this article was written.
My personal feelings (yes opinions) not meant to start a pissing contest, just what I felt. APR felt very smooth, so smooth I was surprised at the power it made. APR has the smoothest shifts (don't seem to loose power between shifts). The REVO has a blast of torque that can be felt, but doesn't seem to hold its power as long. The GIAC felt similar to stock, but not as smooth (kind of choppy).
Originally posted by crew219 Just posting it here so no one gets confused . . . . your REVO settings are very incorrect.
Your tuner did Timing:1 Boost:6
REVO says for 91, Timing:3 Boost:5
Huge difference . . . other than that, good comparison.
GIAC has some explaining to do.
Dave
Some members specify that high of timing settings, but Revo specificies to start out with timing 1 for 91 octane, timing 3 for 93 octane and move them up if there is no retard. That would make sense as that way timing 9 would be for 99 octane. From his timing retard logs you can see that he achieves retard on the timing 1 setting in all four cylinders at the upper rpms. Increasing timing would likely just add to the increasing retard in his case. If he went any higher, I would hope it wouldnt be more than timing 2.
This is really great work and I congratulate you on the effort.
One observation - you used APR's 91 octane software to, I'm assuming, maintain consistency. Does anyone actually buy the APR 91 product? I personally never considered it and went straight for the 93.
Unfortunately AP Tuning doesn't have a 4 wheel dyno, but my subjective opinion re: the APR 93 product is that it's just plain awesome. I drove out to the middle of Pennsyltucky in one (albeit great) car and drove home in a completely different one.
A cautionary note to those considering the purchase of APR performance software who might be concerned about the dealer/warranty issues - do not be tempted to buy only the performance program. By all means buy the flip-switch package with the performance and stock modes. If you give your dealer an APR'd A4 they will be able to tell immediately just from driving it.
The good news in all this: My wife won't drive my car anymore. She just flat-out refuses. :)
Originally posted by Quartz05 This is really great work and I congratulate you on the effort.
One observation - you used APR's 91 octane software to, I'm assuming, maintain consistency. Does anyone actually buy the APR 91 product? I personally never considered it and went straight for the 93.
Unfortunately AP Tuning doesn't have a 4 wheel dyno, but my subjective opinion re: the APR 93 product is that it's just plain awesome. I drove out to the middle of Pennsyltucky in one (albeit great) car and drove home in a completely different one.
A cautionary note to those considering the purchase of APR performance software who might be concerned about the dealer/warranty issues - do not be tempted to buy only the performance program. By all means buy the flip-switch package with the performance and stock modes. If you give your dealer an APR'd A4 they will be able to tell immediately just from driving it.
The good news in all this: My wife won't drive my car anymore. She just flat-out refuses. :)
I have to run the 91 octane programs. Southwest does not have 93 octane at the pump.
When the testing was finished my car went to the dealership for 5000 mile service with APR still loaded and switched to stock mode. Passed with no problems.
This is the info we have all been waiting for. Thanks for all your efforts in putting this together.
2008 Audi A4 Avant 2.0TQ S-Line Titanium SE SOLD
1997 BMW 328i Sedan
1984 VW Rabbit Convertible 2.0l 16v 6-speed
2008 Chrysler Town & Country Limited on 20s
2010 MINI Cooper
No 93 at the pump? Wow. That so totally sucks. I was a little concerned when I first started looking into the whole thing, but it turns out that up here in NJ pretty much everyone sells 93. No worries.
Great Comparisons and thanks for taking the time and doing this.... Would any one known what would be the setting for someone running 93oct with Revo Software?
This is a very useful post so keep it clean guys. Useless posts were removed.
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Originally posted by flyinb501 Very nice job. There must have been something wrong with the GIAC flash. You should have went back to evo and asked them what the deal was.
I was warned before I went to the dyno about the GIAC being very conservative. 2 weeks later right before the dyno run they wanted me to load an unoffical file. Now that the 3 new files are coming out there has been something worked out for me to re-dyno the car. We will see.
Originally posted by allcool Very good test
I can see Lots of time and effort went into this ...thanks Parks
Couple of questions
1.
How/why did REVO dealer choose the settings he did? Did you have any say in it, or was the settings all his decision?
2.
After the flash did the chip dealers want to test or log the car?
These questions are not meant to bash or condemn any tuner or this test. Just need some clarification.
allcool
The REVO dealer chose those settings initially. I personally logged the car (because I was worried about safety). The timing retard was displaying a lot of 6.. that was enough timing for me.
none of them had intentions of logging the car. I did that on my own. Laptop went with me every trip.
I know you are not bashing.. thanks. I am not parital to any of these companies I jsut wanted to find the software best fitted for me and share my results with everyone else.
I have a lot of information to provide if everyone can just ask questions like this.
Originally posted by bhvrdr Some members specify that high of timing settings, but Revo specificies to start out with timing 1 for 91 octane, timing 3 for 93 octane and move them up if there is no retard. That would make sense as that way timing 9 would be for 99 octane. From his timing retard logs you can see that he achieves retard on the timing 1 setting in all four cylinders at the upper rpms. Increasing timing would likely just add to the increasing retard in his case. If he went any higher, I would hope it wouldnt be more than timing 2.
cheers! Mike
That is 100% correct for the B6's, but I personaly dont know if they kept the same deal for the B7's.
Loosing 1-1.5 psi and gaining 1 deg of timing will probably yeald same timing retard.
Just wanted to thank you for your efforts and the money you spent.
Thinking that maybe we should all pay a buck or two thru paypal to pay for some of your expenses, since we all benefit from your analysis.
I kinda of wanted to go with APR b/c of their 93 Octane program but inclined to get Revo since it's available here in town.
Now I think I will go with APR when I happen to drive to San Antonio
2005.5 2.0T Tip Dolphin Grey / Black Interior
Factory options: all except for Bose sound
Added: 35% Tint, OEM Bluetooth, MFSW with paddle shifters, RS4 pedals, Brushed Aluminium mirror caps, S-line bumper, RS4 grille, Euro plate filler, 19" RS4 reps (Velocity), S4 valence, Satellite receiver, Quad tips, VMR boost gauge, AUX port
Next mods: honeycomb fog grilles, LED DRL, Dension
Originally posted by HID those timing numbers for Revo are low, I am currently running timing 8, boost 6, and when I get my exhaust its going to be timing 8, boost 7
I would say in Florida you can run 93 octane with lower outside temps. Out here in the south west we get high outside temps and some shit ass 91octane. I could run the timing and boost all the way up, but that doesnt mean it is the right thing to do.
Are you running logs to see the effects of your settings? Without data logs those timing numbers dont mean much.
Originally posted by HID Yes, they do logs and test every time they touch my car, and so far so good.
Also, I run water/meth injection
However my settings before where boost 6 timing 6.
Ok so different climates, gas, and car setups yield different REVO settings. Therefore, it is true my REVO settings used are to low for your current setup, although they were appropriate for my testing.
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