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  1. #1
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    3.0 camshaft seals..

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    About a year ago I blew a head gasket. I had the heads skimmed, new seals, and gaskets. Everything worked great except I would leak oil on both upper cam shafts seals. The cam shafts closes to the intake. But the lower cam shaft seals wouldn't leak. I let this go for about a year. Well my starter went out and to replace it I needed to put the car in service mode. Since I was this far I said might as well fix this oil leak thing.

    I have a brand new set of camshaft seals. My question is what is proper way to removing and replacing camshaft seals. I obviously don't know what I'm doing..

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    Yo! Can I get some help please!
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    You'll have the remove the cam adjusters to do the seals. Which means you'll also need new gaskets for behind the adjusters since they'll usually leak next after removing and reinstalling adjusters. Once removed you'll be able to get the seals out (relatively) easy. This is why many of us avoid them with the TB job if they are not leaking. Also because none of the TB kits come with these parts and most of us find this out the hard way during the job.

    There's one more thing to worry about too. After the adjusters come off, there's (I think 3) c-clips at the end of each camshaft. If these are damaged or any are missing, this would also be a leak point eventually.
    A Bentley manual or Elsawin is pretty invaluable for this type of info. There's threads about this too. Do a search.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings SJorge3442's Avatar
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    Why is it that the adjusters need to come off to change the seals? I remember seeing a thread before with those special cam clips showing (Those metal E-Ring like things) and whoever that was, couldnt get his cams to stop leaking even after replacing those clips. I would do some searches (i did, couldnt find it) and try to find that thread as I believe he eventually figured out the leak
    2003 3.0 6 Speed - Quattro. 151k.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJorge3442 View Post
    Why is it that the adjusters need to come off to change the seals? I remember seeing a thread before with those special cam clips showing (Those metal E-Ring like things) and whoever that was, couldnt get his cams to stop leaking even after replacing those clips. I would do some searches (i did, couldnt find it) and try to find that thread as I believe he eventually figured out the leak
    Are you referring to the clips on the cam sprockets that hold those plastic caps surrounded by o-rings on?
    The seals (looking at his photos above where the oil is leaking) are the black rings around the exposed camshaft ends that are only visible after the sprocket is removed. They are hard seals, not soft rubber, and from what I've learned the only way to get them is to get the camshaft out of the way, hence the adjuster removal. If you saw a way to get them while the cam is still protruding, that would be an incredible time saver and I'd love to see a link since I didn't do mine with the TB change and am sure I'll have to deal with them soon enough.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    I have the Bentley, it says nothing about the cylinder head seals!!20180313_155607.jpeg
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    Not so bad. Installed dry, according to my research 20180313_170050.jpeg
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Here's another diagram. #2 are the seals and this image shows they are front mounted, but no one has written a DIY for them anywhere, and I can't remember where I read about the adjuster needing to come off. If you can get the seals pried out, you can use the cam bolts with large washer to push in the new ones. Obviously be careful not to damage the adjuster as it's not a cheap part. The seals are rubber but have a hard edge to them that mates up with the circular opening in the adjuster. My guess is they won't come out easily and prying might damage the adjuster. If not, removing the adjuster and pushing from the back might be safer.
    If you do have to remove the adjuster to get the old ones out, #4 is the gasket you will need to reinstall. #6 are the cam rings I was talking about in my earlier post. If any of these are missing or damaged, this would be a leak point. So basically there's 3 leak points. The seal, the adjuster gasket, and those cam rings.

    Also, the cam sprocket long bolts are torque to yield. Some of us have reused them and have been lucky, but it would be wise to get new ones rather than risk failure.


  9. #9
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19jdog View Post
    Not so bad. Installed dry, according to my research 20180313_170050.jpeg
    Nice. Good job. Don't forget the gasket and check those rings on the cam ends. Post your research links too if they are on the web. Thanks.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2004a4b630QT View Post
    Nice. Good job. Don't forget the gasket and check those rings on the cam ends. Post your research links too if they are on the web. Thanks.
    I found this post.. post #5
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t-seal-leaking

    I'm pretty sure I installed it with oil around it.. Also I read on the package not run the engine 4 hours after installations. There were a few lite gashes in the cam adjusters so I sanded them down. Hopefully this cures my problem. Ill be finish tomorrow evening.

    Btw

    Where did you find that blow up of the cylinder head?? Bentley?

    I'm getting tired of this old motor anyways, I think I'm going start looking for a 2,7tt soon.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    that post isn't for the 3.0 engine. I can tell by cam sprocket photo in post 4. It's a 1.8T. Our sprockets have oil running through them, they're not just simple gears like on the other engines. The seal is similar but the 1.8t, 2.7T and 2.8 engines all have chain tensioners in the back. Our kind (hydraulic driven by oil pressure) is only on the 3.0 as far as I know.

    I'd like to do a 2.7T also, but those engines are getting long in the tooth unless you get one from an A6 which had them still '05 I think, and I can't imagine doing a swap without a rebuilding it first and that's a ton of work. At the very least, new piston rings and rod bearings, and a complete heads rebuild and new turbos. Otherwise, we're just trading one set of problems for another. All the low mileage 2.7's have to be gone by now. Still, a great project if time and cash allow.

    The diagram is from a thread on audizine. It's probably from Elsawin, the official repair database Audi uses and is not officially available to the public.

    This link has a tech self study manual that shows how our cam adjusters work:

    https://cardiagn.com/3-0-liter-v6-en...921103-online/

  12. #12
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    I used the post to understand how to install the ptft seal. I'm trying to have a leak free engine if that's possible. I do have 237000 miles on the motor. I did pass smog last week though, even with the JHM high flow cats!
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings SJorge3442's Avatar
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    Keep us posted with your success. Do you think you really needed to remove them to change or could you have hooked the gasket with a hook and pulled them out? Would be good to know for future purposes. FWIW, the rings on the cam I was referring to above are part #6 in the diagram from post #8
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19jdog View Post
    I used the post to understand how to install the ptft seal. I'm trying to have a leak free engine if that's possible. I do have 237000 miles on the motor. I did pass smog last week though, even with the JHM high flow cats!
    Off topic, but you got sniffed while getting smogged?

    I've had about 4 different vehicles in the past 4 years that I've gotten smogged, all 2003 or newer. The smog shop never put any of them on the Dyno or put a tailpipe sniffer in. He said they only do that for stuff that's older than 2000. Everything 2001 and up just plugs into the computer and gets a visual.

    Just curious since I have an 04 3.0 as well and just smogged it a few weeks ago.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings pablolizarraga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJorge3442 View Post
    Keep us posted with your success. Do you think you really needed to remove them to change or could you have hooked the gasket with a hook and pulled them out? Would be good to know for future purposes. FWIW, the rings on the cam I was referring to above are part #6 in the diagram from post #8
    Ditto

    Since we’re on the topic of camshaft leaks...
    https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4...terest/150809/


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  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkoNova View Post
    Off topic, but you got sniffed while getting smogged?

    I've had about 4 different vehicles in the past 4 years that I've gotten smogged, all 2003 or newer. The smog shop never put any of them on the Dyno or put a tailpipe sniffer in. He said they only do that for stuff that's older than 2000. Everything 2001 and up just plugs into the computer and gets a visual.

    Just curious since I have an 04 3.0 as well and just smogged it a few weeks ago.
    Yes, they had the sensor tool in my exhaust during the smog test. They also peaked under the car. I always get nervous when they do that. HFC cats are illegal in California.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings 19jdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJorge3442 View Post
    Keep us posted with your success. Do you think you really needed to remove them to change or could you have hooked the gasket with a hook and pulled them out? Would be good to know for future purposes. FWIW, the rings on the cam I was referring to above are part #6 in the diagram from post #8
    Yes you could probably pull them off without removal. But, it's only 6 Allen screws and I would be afraid on scaring the housing. I put the adjuster in a vise and very gently tapped the seal out with a screw driver and hammer.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19jdog View Post
    Yes you could probably pull them off without removal. But, it's only 6 Allen screws and I would be afraid on scaring the housing. I put the adjuster in a vise and very gently tapped the seal out with a screw driver and hammer.
    I think what SJorge3442 is worried about is creating a new leak point where one doesn't exist. After removing the adjuster, dealing with the adjuster gasket and cam rings come into play. And if I understand what he was saying previously, someone who changed all of these still ended up with a leak, similar to how changing the crank seal can leave you with a new leak point. But, yeah, any scarring or grooves left in the adjuster holes will probably lead to a leak anyway.

    Ah, Audi, no wonder they consider a certain amount of leaking normal and will not honor it as warranty repair for cars still under warranty. That's what the belly pan is really for, hiding leaks. They should line the inside with something absorbent, like a diaper (joking of course).

    Jay Leno said he leaves the belly pans off his cars so that if there's a fire you don't end up driving a molotov cocktail.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablolizarraga View Post
    Ditto

    Since we’re on the topic of camshaft leaks...
    https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4...terest/150809/


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    Good stuff. Thanks for the link



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