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  1. #41
    Active Member Two Rings Krillien's Avatar
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    Wonder if Vincenzo can pull some info for us here over at the Audi Customer Experience forum, though it looks like that place is reserved for folks down in the states.
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  2. #42
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    "A VCDS (Vag-Com) dongle is the way to go."

    "VCDS/VagCom"


    I'm sure you guys are right, but part of the warranty is not having to mess with problems. I just want to know if I'm getting these codes you guys are getting without dragging a laptop around. Are they standard OBDII codes? If there is a problem I will make it the dealer's problem :)

    Side note: I opened my oil cap and did not notice any strong smell of gas. I have a 2017.
    2017 Ara Blue RS3

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nesbit View Post
    "A VCDS (Vag-Com) dongle is the way to go."

    "VCDS/VagCom"


    I'm sure you guys are right, but part of the warranty is not having to mess with problems. I just want to know if I'm getting these codes you guys are getting without dragging a laptop around. Are they standard OBDII codes? If there is a problem I will make it the dealer's problem :)

    Side note: I opened my oil cap and did not notice any strong smell of gas. I have a 2017.
    I can pull up the code on my cheap OBDII reader, which I think may be an Innova 3030 ...managed to clear it the first time too, but am leaving the MIL light to shine brightly this time, for my dealer visit next week.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nesbit View Post
    "A VCDS (Vag-Com) dongle is the way to go."

    "VCDS/VagCom"


    I'm sure you guys are right, but part of the warranty is not having to mess with problems. I just want to know if I'm getting these codes you guys are getting without dragging a laptop around. Are they standard OBDII codes? If there is a problem I will make it the dealer's problem :)

    Side note: I opened my oil cap and did not notice any strong smell of gas. I have a 2017.
    I think many of the generic obd dongles online will work with different apps. Ive used Dash Command for quick DTC checks.
    2017 RS3-
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  5. #45
    Active Member One Ring
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    I have also the same issue face to my car.
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  6. #46
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Ignorance is bliss! Hence why I've decided not to crack open my oil cap and start sniffing.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalaprise View Post
    Ignorance is bliss! Hence why I've decided not to crack open my oil cap and start sniffing.
    Yeah that may not be the best thing to do here after thinking about it. The smell of gas could be subjective for some. I noticed it because Iíve been rolling around in oil for a long time and it never smelled this strong. If I am wrong I will let you guys know.
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  8. #48
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalaprise View Post
    Ignorance is bliss! Hence why I've decided not to crack open my oil cap and start sniffing.
    LMFAO this is so true!!!! just crossing fingers no cel. Maybe ill drop in to the dealership and see if they've heard anything about the issue.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by allset View Post
    Yeah that may not be the best thing to do here after thinking about it. The smell of gas could be subjective for some. I noticed it because Iíve been rolling around in oil for a long time and it never smelled this strong. If I am wrong I will let you guys know.
    I love the fact you brought this potential issue to everyone's attention though, I didnt want it to come off that way :) This is whats so great about these forums. We can share and figure things out as a community.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WAF View Post
    LMFAO this is so true!!!! just crossing fingers no cel. Maybe ill drop in to the dealership and see if they've heard anything about the issue.
    Yea, I keep glancing to see if my CEL pops on. I like to have my steering wheel low and it tends to block off the very top of the display which has all of the warning lights.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalaprise View Post
    I love the fact you brought this potential issue to everyone's attention though, I didnt want it to come off that way :) This is whats so great about these forums. We can share and figure things out as a community.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Most definitely.

    Yea, I keep glancing to see if my CEL pops on. I like to have my steering wheel low and it tends to block off the very top of the display which has all of the warning lights.
    Haaaaaaaa! I did just that after it came on and I had to leave it on for the dealer. I adjusted my wheel so I couldnít see it. It was bugging the hell out me.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalaprise View Post
    Ignorance is bliss! Hence why I've decided not to crack open my oil cap and start sniffing.
    Ha. I can't bring myself to adopt this on my 65K car. At a minimum I want to know if there is a pending CEL.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    Absolutely.

    A couple things are certain. One, we all have a warranty. Two, after Dieselgate, this company is not going to screw around.
    Not sure about that. Audi took no ownership of the issues I had with my tires and complaints against the dealership where I purchased the car. After that experience I was left with a bad taste in my mouth and am not expecting them to own up to anything.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteJ View Post
    Not sure about that. Audi took no ownership of the issues I had with my tires and complaints against the dealership where I purchased the car. After that experience I was left with a bad taste in my mouth and am not expecting them to own up to anything.
    Tires are a far cry from anything emissions related. Technically the tire warranty is covered by Pirelli, but it would be nice for the dealer to help you out with it.

  14. #54
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    Audi confirms there is gas in the oil. Iím being told to that it could be due to the rings not being completely seated yet and is also causing the too rich code. I should drive until the 10,000 service and they will revisit then. They also said they are seeing this in the RS7 and Q7.

    Iím assuming this conclusion is based on GFF in addition to what they are also seeing in other cars.

    Iím waiting on Blackstone to send me a vial as I already pulled a sample to send them.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by allset; 12-07-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by allset View Post
    Audi confirms there is gas in the oil. Iím being told to that it could be due to the rings not being completely seated yet and is also causing the too rich code. I should drive until the 10,000 service and they will revisit then. They also said they are seeing this in the RS7 and Q7.

    Iím assuming this conclusion is based on GFF in addition to what they are also seeing in other cars.

    Iím waiting on Blackstone to send me a vial as I already pulled a sample to send them.

    Thoughts?
    My thoughts are...this isnt good.

    I wouldn't like driving my car up to 10K knowing Gas is getting into the oil to these levels. Could have long term reliability issues. I would either want them to buy the car back or give me a new motor. I doubt Audi would do either of those things though.

    Tough situation for you as it will be hard to enjoy the car knowing this is going on.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalaprise View Post
    My thoughts are...this isnt good.

    I wouldn't like driving my car up to 10K knowing Gas is getting into the oil to these levels. Could have long term reliability issues. I would either want them to buy the car back or give me a new motor. I doubt Audi would do either of those things though.

    Tough situation for you as it will be hard to enjoy the car knowing this is going on.
    I know. I havenít picked it up yet but when I do Iím making sure this is all documented in writing. I also want to know how much fuel actually in the oil per blackstone.

    I want to have a convo with them In person about this when I go there in a little while.

    Dammit.
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  17. #57
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    Go drive it hard for a while and get it nice and warm. Do that a few consecutive days, try and get it loaded, like going up hills, put some weight in it. If it is in fact a ring seating problem, that will really help.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    Go drive it hard for a while and get it nice and warm. Do that a few consecutive days, try and get it loaded, like going up hills, put some weight in it. If it is in fact a ring seating problem, that will really help.
    That was part of their suggestion now that I think of it.

    My concern is they just changed the oil on 10/24 and I noticed the smell week later. How much freaking gas got in it in like 300 Miles of travel? I guess no way to know until I test. IIRC it should be less than .5%?
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by allset View Post
    That was part of their suggestion now that I think of it.

    My concern is they just changed the oil on 10/24 and I noticed the smell week later. How much freaking gas got in it in like 300 Miles of travel? I guess no way to know until I test. IIRC it should be less than .5%?
    It wouldn't have been much. If if you had a dripping injector or something like that, you would have significant other issues as well. Also remember this car takes 8+ quarts of oil so it's not like an old Honda with 3.5 quarts.

    You don't have to go beat on it, just get it loaded. Weight, hills in a gear too high, things like that. If you really babied it during break in, I would believe their diagnosis.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    It wouldn't have been much. If if you had a dripping injector or something like that, you would have significant other issues as well. Also remember this car takes 8+ quarts of oil so it's not like an old Honda with 3.5 quarts.

    You don't have to go beat on it, just get it loaded. Weight, hills in a gear too high, things like that. If you really babied it during break in, I would believe their diagnosis.
    The car had 200 Miles on it before I got it and I wouldnít say I babied it but certainly didnít beat on it either. Spirited driving. You know.

    My question to you is above what per cent fuel in oil per Blackstone would be the number to refuse to drive it?
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  21. #61
    Established Member Two Rings RezaWrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allset View Post
    The car had 200 Miles on it before I got it and I wouldnít say I babied it but certainly didnít beat on it either. Spirited driving. You know.

    For what it's worth my car had over 7000km when my first MIL came on for this issue. Haven't noticed any change in driving behavior at any time. I babied it pretty good for the first 1400km (pedal never touched the floor). Only a handful of light pulls to 5-6k rpm and the rest of the time below 4k rpm.
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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by allset View Post
    The car had 200 Miles on it before I got it and I wouldnít say I babied it but certainly didnít beat on it either. Spirited driving. You know.

    My question to you is above what per cent fuel in oil per Blackstone would be the number to refuse to drive it?

    I don't know the exact percentage, Blackstone can answer that better than I can. I do actually deal with this pretty often but with diesel fuel. I'm not even sure if gasoline will really stay in engine oil, it would likely evaporate pretty quickly.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RezaWrex View Post
    For what it's worth my car had over 7000km when my first MIL came on for this issue. Haven't noticed any change in driving behavior at any time. I babied it pretty good for the first 1400km (pedal never touched the floor). Only a handful of light pulls to 5-6k rpm and the rest of the time below 4k rpm.
    Thatís good to know thanks!
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    I don't know the exact percentage, Blackstone can answer that better than I can. I do actually deal with this pretty often but with diesel fuel. I'm not even sure if gasoline will really stay in engine oil, it would likely evaporate pretty quickly.
    It would pretty quicklly once the rings seat if thatís s the issue.

    They tested the injectors which are opening and closing properly at least within operational parameters which I expected. Iím not sure a closed but slowly leaking injector could be diagnosed this way.
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  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by allset View Post
    It would pretty quicklly once the rings seat if thatís s the issue.

    They tested the injectors which are opening and closing properly at least within operational parameters which I expected. Iím not sure a closed but slowly leaking injector could be diagnosed this way.

    Because we have seen this on a few cars, I believe the chances of this being a hardware problem is remote. Both GDI (save for BMW's/Siemens early ones) and port injectors are extremely reliable

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    Because we have seen this on a few cars, I believe the chances of this being a hardware problem is remote. Both GDI (save for BMW's/Siemens early ones) and port injectors are extremely reliable
    Agreed.
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  27. #67
    Veteran Member Two Rings Burningcoals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    Go drive it hard for a while and get it nice and warm. Do that a few consecutive days, try and get it loaded, like going up hills, put some weight in it. If it is in fact a ring seating problem, that will really help.
    Rings are pretty much seated in the first 20 miles, especially on motors broken in @ factory.. However expanding and contracting can cause it to seal better or worse. I know that Toyota build in piston slap that goes away when warm. Maybe this helps long term reliability.

    However, the idea that your rings are going to FURTHER seat is BS. I think they just might be putting off the situation. I would change oil and run up some more miles, drive the car like you stole it and do another analysis and if it is persisting time to get AOA involved, etc.
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  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burningcoals View Post
    Rings are pretty much seated in the first 20 miles, especially on motors broken in @ factory.. However expanding and contracting can cause it to seal better or worse. I know that Toyota build in piston slap that goes away when warm. Maybe this helps long term reliability.

    However, the idea that your rings are going to FURTHER seat is BS. I think they just might be putting off the situation. I would change oil and run up some more miles, drive the car like you stole it and do another analysis and if it is persisting time to get AOA involved, etc.
    I don't really disagree, but there's one way to find out. I'm not 100% up to date with the newest types of rings and cylinder coatings that are being used, but if there is any truth to the dealer claim at all, what I mentioned will help.

  29. #69
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    The whole point of a 1k mile break in is for the rings. I do not agree they seat in the first 20miles. The only reason to vary rpm (i.e. don't do highway driving with a new car) and engine brake is for the rings. If 20 miles were the limit most of our cars would be broken in by the time we get them and there wouldn't be a need for a manufactured suggested break in period.

    I do think the dealer that says your rings will take 10k miles to seat is blowing smoke (no pun). I think they are kicking the can until you are either out of warranty and have excessive blow by or Audi agrees to pick up the tab for a new motor.

  30. #70
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    I donít think you are being over concerned with your car. You should smell the oil not just from the oil filler cap. You would still need to know what you should be smelling for in comparison between normal and too much of a fuel smell in the oil. Some hydrocarbon smell is normal to accumulate in engine oil over time and mileage. Some engines are more then others.
    All that said, your HPFP can fail and leak into the oil which can give you a fuel soaked smell. Oil consumption will happen because of this if at a higher level. Since you also have a stored code that can go along with a HPFP failing like so, I would not wait to get the car in and have it fixed. Fuel in the oil is going to add to engine wear. I have seen this type of HPFP failure on another RS model. Does not mean yours is the same, just means it can happen. Simple fix though.

    Let us know what you find out !

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by A U D I View Post
    I donít think you are being over concerned with your car. You should smell the oil not just from the oil filler cap. You would still need to know what you should be smelling for in comparison between normal and too much of a fuel smell in the oil. Some hydrocarbon smell is normal to accumulate in engine oil over time and mileage. Some engines are more then others.
    All that said, your HPFP can fail and leak into the oil which can give you a fuel soaked smell. Oil consumption will happen because of this if at a higher level. Since you also have a stored code that can go along with a HPFP failing like so, I would not wait to get the car in and have it fixed. Fuel in the oil is going to add to engine wear. I have seen this type of HPFP failure on another RS model. Does not mean yours is the same, just means it can happen. Simple fix though.

    Let us know what you find out !
    HPFP failure would not lead to the code he is getting. It could be a second separate problem, but that type of failure rate on a new HPFP is infinitesimally small. The car is under warranty, Audi is not going to just put a new engine in it until they know what (if anything) is wrong. It is absolutely possible once he loads it up and gets it rocking a few times that the problem will completely disappear, and we probably shouldn't speculate or concern him any more until that is proven to not be effective.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    HPFP failure would not lead to the code he is getting. It could be a second separate problem, but that type of failure rate on a new HPFP is infinitesimally small. The car is under warranty, Audi is not going to just put a new engine in it until they know what (if anything) is wrong. It is absolutely possible once he loads it up and gets it rocking a few times that the problem will completely disappear, and we probably shouldn't speculate or concern him any more until that is proven to not be effective.
    I donít agree. A HPFP can give that code. Most new parts do have a low failure rate but it still need to be checked. Iím only basing my conclusion on what is being explained here per his concern.
    I do agree with still having it in and checked by a dealership would be the best step to take on the car.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by A U D I View Post
    I donít agree. A HPFP can give that code. Most new parts do have a low failure rate but it still need to be checked. Iím only basing my conclusion on what is being explained here per his concern.
    I do agree with still having it in and checked by a dealership would be the best step to take on the car.

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't see how. I guess it can technically give that code, but not only that code. If there is higher pressure than the ECU wants causing the injector(s) to flow too much fuel, there would also be code for fuel rail pressure higher than commanded. This would also be a separate issue to actually leaking fuel into the oil, which would typically cause the opposite condition unless the leak is very small.

    If the car still has the same fuel in oil issue a week or two from now, I do agree the HPFP would be a good place to start, but I still think that's a separate issue from the code.

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't see how. I guess it can technically give that code, but not only that code. If there is higher pressure than the ECU wants causing the injector(s) to flow too much fuel, there would also be code for fuel rail pressure higher than commanded. This would also be a separate issue to actually leaking fuel into the oil, which would typically cause the opposite condition unless the leak is very small.

    If the car still has the same fuel in oil issue a week or two from now, I do agree the HPFP would be a good place to start, but I still think that's a separate issue from the code.
    Your good, I like your input. Itís always hard to help members here with ideas to get their Audiís back on point without actually being with the car.

  35. #75
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    Thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated.

    Since Audi really gave me no other option my plan is to get the oil analyzed, drive it some more and keep checking for that pending code if I donít get a MIL. I may do another oil change and subsequent analysis before I go back to Audi at 10,000 depending on the first sampling result.

    At this point with the info I have I really donít have much of a choice.
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  36. #76
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    Been following this guy for about a year, most of his videos are pretty good. Coincidentally, this popped up today;


  37. #77
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    Yes this guy is great. Good post. Curious to see if my dilution is outside operational parameters.
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  38. #78
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    Location
    greater NYC area

    Car went into limp mode. New code P0087 fuel rail pressure too low. So now the HPFP looking like the culprit. Waiting on Audi to get back to me.

    Also mailing out oil sample today.
    2017 RS3-
    2014 B8.5 S5- Unitronic Stage 2+
    2010 MK6 GTI- Unitronic KO4- gone

    Paul@supremepower.com

  39. #79
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Nov 06 2017
    AZ Member #
    409460
    Location
    Vancouver

    Kind of sucks but at least it is progress

  40. #80
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jan 24 2013
    AZ Member #
    108228
    Location
    greater NYC area

    Quote Originally Posted by Potatohead_RS3 View Post
    Kind of sucks but at least it is progress
    This is the best outcome imo. An identifiable hardware failure that can be addressed. My fear was chasing a ghost for months with only peripheral codes and gas slowly leaking in the fuel. Iím fine with this if itís the case.
    2017 RS3-
    2014 B8.5 S5- Unitronic Stage 2+
    2010 MK6 GTI- Unitronic KO4- gone

    Paul@supremepower.com

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