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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    APR Stage 2 Installed on 2015 Q7 3.0t

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    I tried the ChipWerke Pro for a few months and it set the stage for the inevitable. The move on to a full tune and pulley. The ChipWerke worked great for added passing power and was very welcome. But the lag after the 1-2/2-3 shifts were annoying. You had to adjust your throttle input to control the amount of lag after the shift. But the additional power was very welcome. So to remedy that, I went all out for the APR Stage 2, 93 Octane pulley and tune. Why APR, because my 2013 S4 has their dual pulleys and tune and has worked well in that.

    So last Friday I installed the pulley. It was a breeze on the Q7. No need for service position or removal of anything other than the belt and pulley. I had the old pulley off in 5 - 10 minutes. The longest wait was to heat up the new, smaller, SC pulley. After an hour in a toaster oven at 350 F, it slipped right on. Held it there for about a minute, then blew compressed air onto it for another couple of minutes. The new belt went on and I was done. Total amount of work time to complete it was less than 15 minutes. But then there was the hour of waiting for the pulley to heat up.

    I had several meetings throughout the southeast this week and ended up in Opelika, AL for my final meeting. Obviously that was planned. I paid a visit to APR yesterday morning to get the Stage 2 tune added. They quickly brought the vehicle into their shop and began the work. It took a bit longer than expected as the ECU needed to be removed to be flashed. Audi installs tamper proof screws so APR cut notches in them so a flat head screw driver could be used to remove them. It did take a couple of hours in total but was fine as I browsed their collection in the waiting area and spoke with some of the engineers. Once done, they brought me my keys and away I went.

    I had to make a stopover in Carrollton, GA so the majority was back roads but did get about 60 miles of highway driving in. I won't say it is similar to stock, just more powerful. Yes, the engine note and initial feel is similar. But once it gets above 3000 RPM, it is completely different. It just pulls all the way through. More like a slower version of my S4 (significantly more weight). There is a sharper jump off the line but as the revs build, it does not fall on its face like it did stock. There is one thing that is similar to stock, the shifts. It shifts like it should without a lag after the shift like with the ChipWerke Pro. I did find myself using D instead of S often. With the increased torque throughout, there was less need for throttle input. D felt absolutely find and easier to modulate with plenty of pulling power for this heavy vehicle.

    It was actually fun getting on the throttle at a stop light only to leave all traffic easily behind in a large vehicle. I also had to pay attention when accelerating on the highway as I would get into Georgia's super-speeder range immediately; which is 85+ MPH for those not familiar. One issue with the new found acceleration is with the turning. I was exiting my neighborhood, making a left turn, briskly and had to adjust as I entered the other side. I may want to look into some sway bars soon just to keep the roll at a minimum.

    I had noticed that on APR's website, there are no charts for the Q7. Unsure of the exact final power output I could expect, I asked one of the engineers. He confirm that while the C6 A6 had a bit more power in stock form, the upgraded power is the same since the APR code was the same for both. So I could refer the C6 A6 plots for reference. Link below. So it should be close to 390 HP and 380 Torque at the crank. I will put it on a dyno sometime later in the year.

    http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...tfsi_c6a6.html

    I inquired about if they would do a dual pulley set up for this vehicle as both the C6 A6 and Q7 are listed as Unavailable for the dual pulley. They said that lack of demand for the two platforms inhibit their ability to calibrate for these. However, if they ever get a vehicle in and have time available, it may be done. But for now, no plans on it. That would be nice but may be too much for the rest. The suspension and brakes were fine for stock power but are now on the edge.

    I am extremely happy with the components and performance. It now has the acceleration I thought it should have had.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings sciblades's Avatar
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    Take it to the track and run it down the 1/4.

    My uni tune gained 9mph in the 1/4 from stock to tuned on shell 93

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  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Awesome write up. Thanks! What was your total cost? It sounds like it is worth the cost? Are you worried about voiding the warranty? Thinking of adding to my 15Q7.

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciblades View Post
    Take it to the track and run it down the 1/4.

    My uni tune gained 9mph in the 1/4 from stock to tuned on shell 93
    I will eventually. Especially if I find myself up in northeast Georgia on a Friday this fall. And I am driving the Q7. I would not be shocked on the trap gain you saw. Once in the upper revs, close to the shift, there is over 100 WHP gap. That will definitely help the trap. Unfortunately I never ran this vehicle at the track for a reference run.

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sschwar2 View Post
    Awesome write up. Thanks! What was your total cost? It sounds like it is worth the cost? Are you worried about voiding the warranty? Thinking of adding to my 15Q7.
    Total cost would be about $2000. I did buy the pulley installation tool and did it myself. But going to APR themselves, they don't charge labor for the tune installation. But figure about $2000 in total.

    This platform has shown to be reliable so I am not concerned. Plus, I do all maintenance myself so no need to go into the dealer. If there is a non-powertrain warranty matter, I will take it in and discuss the situation in advance. If there is a powertrain issue, well, I guess I will be working on it then. But with the amount of time this powertrain has been out, I feel pretty safe with a 2015 doing fine.

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
    Total cost would be about $2000. I did buy the pulley installation tool and did it myself. But going to APR themselves, they don't charge labor for the tune installation. But figure about $2000 in total.

    This platform has shown to be reliable so I am not concerned. Plus, I do all maintenance myself so no need to go into the dealer. If there is a non-powertrain warranty matter, I will take it in and discuss the situation in advance. If there is a powertrain issue, well, I guess I will be working on it then. But with the amount of time this powertrain has been out, I feel pretty safe with a 2015 doing fine.
    Thanks. That's great to know.

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings lexcruiser's Avatar
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    Would this theoretically also work in the 2017/18 Q7s?
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  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexcruiser View Post
    Would this theoretically also work in the 2017/18 Q7s?
    Not at this time. There have been some changes with the 3.0t with the newer platform. The tuners are working it out now.

  9. #9
    Active Member One Ring
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    Scalbert - Excellent review. Thank you for sharing. My assessment of the Chipwerke module is similar. The mid-range passing power is addicting, but part throttle manipulation can be frustrating. As mentioned, I too drive a '15 Q7 PP and the 'flat spot' when feeding too much throttle is borderline dangerous at times, and I have tried every variation of reset/adaption as advised by Chipwerke with little luck. I cannot fool myself into thinking I am building a race car; all that I really want is a bit more kick to make it thru traffic to various soccer events. :)

    Did they mention any added benefit to an open air intake? My guess is any gain would pale in comparison to stage 2. Its a shame that the dual pulley option is not on the table. I would think that would really round out what I think is a stout SUV; one that I find more attractive (muscular) than its replacement and plan to keep for years to come. Imagine 430/400 hp/tq? That would make for a fun daily SUV, but if your numbers are correct, 390/380 is not too far off. Besides, what SUV would really be considered a replacement that offers the same fit/finish and reliability? I've glanced at the Volvo/Range Rover/X5 but I am just not impressed for the expected entry price.

    In any case, thanks again for posting this. Please post if your opinion changes over time.

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30TMG View Post
    Did they mention any added benefit to an open air intake?
    No mention. I doubt they even really looked at it either. In Stage 2 form, the stock intake is enough on the S4. I would wager the surface area is similar in both platforms so stock should be fine.

  11. #11
    Active Member One Ring
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    Great! Thanks. I will look out for you on local roads with my measly 272 hp... for now.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
    Not at this time. There have been some changes with the 3.0t with the newer platform. The tuners are working it out now.
    Which? Every company I spoke with said there are no plans at this time for 4M Q7 Tune/Pulley or hardware to support it. Not enough demand to support the R&D costs at this time.

  13. #13
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
    Which? Every company I spoke with said there are no plans at this time for 4M Q7 Tune/Pulley or hardware to support it. Not enough demand to support the R&D costs at this time.
    Arin from APR has said they are working in the new engines, apparently they are the same as A6 an A7, so when those are done, the Q7 4M will go next.

    Let's hope it doesn't take long... I'm desperate for the upgrade!

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings Brooklyn's Avatar
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    Did I read this correctly that the ECU has to be removed to tune it? I was hoping to avoid that with the wife's 2014.


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  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn View Post
    Did I read this correctly that the ECU has to be removed to tune it? I was hoping to avoid that with the wife's 2014.


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    Correct. I did not go into the reasons though.

    Wasn't too bad. But then again, I didn't do that part. APR did it. There are two tamper proof screws holding the ECU down. APR cut a slot in them to allow a flathead screw driver to remove them. I had them use those same screws on the reinstall since they were already slotted.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Four Rings SQive's Avatar
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    It shouldn't be necessary for a '14. They only have to take the ECU to crack it. Once they have that revision, others similar shouldn't have to be removed.
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  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SQive View Post
    It shouldn't be necessary for a '14. They only have to take the ECU to crack it. Once they have that revision, others similar shouldn't have to be removed.
    Not sure. Mine was done at APR and they said the 4L Q7 requires the ECU to be removed each time.

  18. #18
    Active Member One Ring
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    Scalbert - I neglected to ask you if you covered this with APR. Will they consider a dual pulley option for the Q7? I think I heard the limitation is the ECU but can't remember. Just curious if you asked. Also, is there any benefit to an exhaust on the Q7?

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30TMG View Post
    Scalbert - I neglected to ask you if you covered this with APR. Will they consider a dual pulley option for the Q7? I think I heard the limitation is the ECU but can't remember. Just curious if you asked. Also, is there any benefit to an exhaust on the Q7?
    Yes, asked about the dual pulley. There is no technical limitation as I initially thought. It is the limited market and time to develop the code. If one of their employees ends up with the Q7 (or C6 A6) with the 3.0t and their engineers have open time, they may do it. But they won't take away development time on other projects to devote to what they may only sell ten of. The number of Q7 and C6 A6 3.0t, combined Stage 1 and Stage 2 installs was amazingly low when compared to the S4 only. If I remember correctly, it was less than 10%; maybe closer to 5%.

    No discussion about exhaust. But again, if the S4 serves as an example, I doubt there would be any real gain. The cats are the same and rest doesn't appear to be too restrictive.

  20. #20
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    I guess that explains the lack of movement in the Q7 forum. Not even remotely close to similar X5 forums. It's actually surprising to me given that I think the Q is a fun little truck and so far so good on reliability. My assumption is with a bit of tuning it will really wake her up (also based on your feedback so far). Thanks!

  21. #21
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Perhaps the weight and the inherent 3rd row cause many to think it has no hope?

    I really enjoy driving it now. Looking forward to cooler weather to really feel even more of a difference. Need to do some logging with VAGCOM to see what the IAT's are going to under full load. Granted, the Q7 has dual heat exchangers and are a decent size. It would be nice to know the temp ranges we are seeing post-IC.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings Brooklyn's Avatar
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    That's unfortunate. Only way the wife would agree to a tune is if it could be quickly returned to stock with no evidence of tampering. Looks like we'll be keeping it stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
    Not sure. Mine was done at APR and they said the 4L Q7 requires the ECU to be removed each time.



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  23. #23
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    This was exactly what I was looking for. If you go the APR route, you have to start with stage 1 and then do stage 2 and the pulley, right? The stage 1 tune is about $1300 and stage 2 is about $300 which puts it right at the $2k you had mentioned. Do any of these upgrades remove the restriction from the air intake? I've heard that is also a big choke point in the line.

  24. #24
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickQ7 View Post
    This was exactly what I was looking for. If you go the APR route, you have to start with stage 1 and then do stage 2 and the pulley, right? The stage 1 tune is about $1300 and stage 2 is about $300 which puts it right at the $2k you had mentioned. Do any of these upgrades remove the restriction from the air intake? I've heard that is also a big choke point in the line.
    You can go straight to Stage 2 but will pay for Stage 1 as well. No other changes were made to the vehicle. The stock intake is intact. The surface area of the filter is the same, if not larger, than my S4 which can run the stock intake just fine.

    However, I need to look at the inlet to the airbox on the Q7 as that may be a limitation. Out of town right now and am not driving the Q7.

  25. #25
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    I took a further look at the intake and it appears the only inlet to the air box is the snorkel that runs to the front. But it looks the same size, if not smaller, than the intake box to throttle body tube. So there may be a choke point. I need to open the airbox up and see how it could be modified to get more air pre-filter. I'll also look at potential changes. The issue is with the sound. I don't want to hear the SC whine in the Q7. A little in the S4 is fine, but not the Q7.

  26. #26
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Doesn't the Q7 have a bit more sound dampening material over all, giving it less interior sound from the engine bay? Perhaps a filter attached to the inlet alone, just for a test, would answer that question before you go cutting anything.
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  27. #27
    Established Member Two Rings scalbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    Doesn't the Q7 have a bit more sound dampening material over all, giving it less interior sound from the engine bay? Perhaps a filter attached to the inlet alone, just for a test, would answer that question before you go cutting anything.
    It does. And would be happy to test as I have an extra filter. But I would need a breather adapter, filter, etc. I could scavenge parts off my S4 to do this. But that would be double the work.

    I can certainly do that. Or I will be down in Opelika again soon and would gladly stop by and borrow a few parts to test with....

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