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  1. #1
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Cool what stage 1 tune???

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    i probably should have asked this question before today,but im headed to waterfest with my q5 3.0 and mostly likely getting it tune by apr. i have read a bunch of reviews and im pretty confident that i will be happy with the results. i do have some experience with apr when i went stage 1 with my b5 s4. the only other company im considering is EPL.
    So i guess my question is which tuner is better? i know thats a pretty subjective topic,but any comments or input would much appreciated.
    i have really no interest going pass stage 1 ,probably.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Four Rings riceboy22's Avatar
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    2015 Audi SQ5, Felt F65x
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    EPL if you want to be able to flash at home for dealer service or to change programs. APR if you prefer off-the-shelf backed by more R&D muscle.
    Current
    2015 Audi SQ5 3.0 TFSI (Build Thread | Flickr | Instagram)

    Past
    2006 Lexus IS350 | 2001 Audi S4 | 2000 Honda S2000 | 1999 Yamaha YZF-R6 | 1995 Acura Integra GS-R

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings ThunderDent's Avatar
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    I did APR for my last Q5, but it's a 2-1/2 hr drive for me to the nearest dealer so it isn't worth it to me for any flash updates.

    EPL is flash at home, back & forth as much as you want. And ability to keep stock file during service visits to prevent TD1.

    APRs Stage I states 444hp/372tq on 93 octane for SQ5.
    EPL won't give official numbers, but they say it's about 75hp above the tested S4 3.0T 333hp, which puts it around 408hp.

    I've asked for better files for Stage I to be released to match. Not sure if we'll get anything close to APR. not sure why they couldn't get closer to 440hp, since they are both just flashes.
    2015 Audi []SQ5
    Sepang Blue--Black/Lunar Silver
    [P+/MMI Nav+/B&O/21" Gloss BLACK SQ5 rims/Black Optic/ECodes/RS Grille/Eurocode Sways/Alu Kreuz/Bilstein PSS10 Coils/Brembo BBK/Stop Tech Rotors/ECS 17.5 Spacers/CF Mirrors, Door Handles, Engine Bay, Paddle Shifters, Interior bits/AWE S-Flo CF Intake/034 Inlet hose/MagnaFlow Exhaust/EPL Stage I tune/VCDS]

  4. #4
    Senior Member Four Rings riceboy22's Avatar
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    2015 Audi SQ5, Felt F65x
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    what stage 1 tune???

    I bet the APR and EPL stage 1 tunes are actually probably indiscernible from a total power perspective. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to the dyno and how it's measured. The top 3.0T times are a mix of all the different tuners.

    Is the 75 hp EPL told you at the wheels?
    Current
    2015 Audi SQ5 3.0 TFSI (Build Thread | Flickr | Instagram)

    Past
    2006 Lexus IS350 | 2001 Audi S4 | 2000 Honda S2000 | 1999 Yamaha YZF-R6 | 1995 Acura Integra GS-R

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings ThunderDent's Avatar
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    Would like to see Dyno from EPL as well
    2015 Audi []SQ5
    Sepang Blue--Black/Lunar Silver
    [P+/MMI Nav+/B&O/21" Gloss BLACK SQ5 rims/Black Optic/ECodes/RS Grille/Eurocode Sways/Alu Kreuz/Bilstein PSS10 Coils/Brembo BBK/Stop Tech Rotors/ECS 17.5 Spacers/CF Mirrors, Door Handles, Engine Bay, Paddle Shifters, Interior bits/AWE S-Flo CF Intake/034 Inlet hose/MagnaFlow Exhaust/EPL Stage I tune/VCDS]

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings ThunderDent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riceboy22 View Post
    I bet the APR and EPL stage 1 tunes are actually probably indiscernible from a total power perspective. I'm sure a lot of it comes down to the dyno and how it's measured. The top 3.0T times are a mix of all the different tuners.

    Is the 75 hp EPL told you at the wheels?
    You know I can't remember. That may make more sense.
    Because if it's at the crank that's way off.

    Maybe they can chip in on the convo here.

    I wouldn't even care to Dyno my car with stock vs Stage I file under same conditions, but it's hard to find a AWD Dyno.
    2015 Audi []SQ5
    Sepang Blue--Black/Lunar Silver
    [P+/MMI Nav+/B&O/21" Gloss BLACK SQ5 rims/Black Optic/ECodes/RS Grille/Eurocode Sways/Alu Kreuz/Bilstein PSS10 Coils/Brembo BBK/Stop Tech Rotors/ECS 17.5 Spacers/CF Mirrors, Door Handles, Engine Bay, Paddle Shifters, Interior bits/AWE S-Flo CF Intake/034 Inlet hose/MagnaFlow Exhaust/EPL Stage I tune/VCDS]

  7. #7
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    this is good info. its really hard to say who's numbers are what. i do believe apr has some pretty soild R& D . im mostly going with them. i still have a few questions to ask in person. I'll definitely post what i go with and impression of the tune.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings TexasDfwS4's Avatar
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    A tuner that lets you tune from home is your best option. I went with Unitronic and love it. Give it a look but tune from home is a must for me.
    B8.5 2013 S4 Ice Silver, DSG, Uni 2+TCU, Prestige Model, MMI, B&O, Fine Napa, Sports Diff, audi assist, 19" Peelers, Carbon Atlas Inlays.
    Q5 3.0 2017 Ibis W/ BO with S-line

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Another vote for tuning at home. I bet more guys on this Q5 board have EPL tunes than APR tunes. It's a heck of a lot easier to get a hold of EPL than APR if you have a question, or need customer support.
    2015 Q5 3.0T | EPL E85 | APR SC pulley | KI 194mm crank pulley | CTS Turbo intake | AMS Alpha cooler | EC headers | Milltek valvesonic exhaust | KW V3 coilovers | 034 X-brace | 034 Trans mounts | 034 Rear sway bar | 034 ACAs | Girodisc LW front rotors | JHM LW back rotors | HRE P104 21x9.5 | Michelin PSS 285/35/21 | Autotech HPFP

    11.788 @ 115.64mph [ KI 194 / APR 57.73 | 104 | -350 ft. D/A ]
    11.950 @ 113.61mph [ KI 194 / APR 57.73 | E85/91 | +300 ft. D/A ]
    0-60 in 3.71

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings Goned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark00s4 View Post
    i probably should have asked this question before today,but im headed to waterfest with my q5 3.0 and mostly likely getting it tune by apr. i have read a bunch of reviews and im pretty confident that i will be happy with the results. i do have some experience with apr when i went stage 1 with my b5 s4. the only other company im considering is EPL.
    So i guess my question is which tuner is better? i know thats a pretty subjective topic,but any comments or input would much appreciated.
    i have really no interest going pass stage 1 ,probably.
    Unitronic if you want to flash at home too for dealer service or another thing ;) Best support / people ;)

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    I opted recently for EPL Stage 1 for my '17 Q5 3.0T.

    I wanted the ability to personally flash back at home to stock, or to upgrade to Stage 2 or even dual pulley without having to drive to an authorized tune installer.

    I've only had the EPL tune about a month, but I can say it is at least 75-80 whp over stock, maybe more. My frame of reference is 60-100 mph timed runs on a level surface, run in both directions and averaged. I am now seeing 6.9 seconds in 90 degree temps. A stock SQ5 354 hp does it in 7.2 seconds according to Road and Track, in cooler temps.

    354-277 = 77hp gain for SQ5 over Q5 3.0T stock and stock.

    I am seeing SQ5 power level with this tune, maybe a bit more.

    I am not seeing much gain 0-60, but that may be my launch technique. Stage 2 with smaller s/c pulley or larger crank pulley should help more with low end torque.

    I have no frame of reference for APR Stage 1 on a Q5.

    In order to assess whp versus bhp, one needs to know what the whp of our cars, in stock tune is. I don't know. But using either system, 1hp is still 1 hp as long as you are comparing whp to whp or bhp to bhp. When looking at dyno charts, you need to know which system is being used and focus on the change and not the absolute max number. The APR chart above is on an SQ5 and is bhp, not whp. It purports to show an 83 bhp gain on the SQ5, but at the same rpm, where the dyno stopped on the stock tune, APR it is only up 60.

    This EPL tune is well-developed, elegant in power delivery at every throttle position and gear, and works smoothly with the 8 speed auto transmission.

    I suspect that both APR and EPL are pretty much identical in the real world and are about all you can get at the rev limiter upshift point on our cars.
    Last edited by MSq5; 07-16-2017 at 06:26 PM.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | K&N E-1987 in stock air box

  12. #12
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by colby7 View Post
    Another vote for tuning at home. I bet more guys on this Q5 board have EPL tunes than APR tunes. It's a heck of a lot easier to get a hold of EPL than APR if you have a question, or need customer support.
    +1


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

  13. #13
    Senior Member Four Rings q5 dave's Avatar
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    2 years with GIAC/Emmanuele designs stage 2 and I love it!!! But if I were to do it again prob choose EPL for the tune at home convenience.
    2013 Q5 3.0T Phantom Black
    2013 A8L 4.0T Phantom Black

    IG @q5ds

  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    well i went with apr st 1. i don't have much seat time in it yet,but definitely feels faster, better respone and much more mid upper rpm power. im not sure if EPL would feel any different. i guess i would need to drive an exact same setup back to back. or on the same dyno the same day.
    so far im very please with the results. i wonder what stage two feels like.lol.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Four Rings PreciseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark00s4 View Post
    well i went with apr st 1. i don't have much seat time in it yet,but definitely feels faster, better respone and much more mid upper rpm power. im not sure if EPL would feel any different. i guess i would need to drive an exact same setup back to back. or on the same dyno the same day.
    so far im very please with the results. i wonder what stage two feels like.lol.
    Can you go over 125 mph? I went with the EPL tune and they do not take off the speed limiter and seems like they may have changed it from 130 to 125....... Rather disappointing considering I have never had a tuner NOT take it off...
    ----- My EFR 7670 Build Thread ----- "The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln -----

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings ThunderDent's Avatar
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    I think with EPL the speed limiter stays. So the SQ5 has higher limit than stock Q5.
    2015 Audi []SQ5
    Sepang Blue--Black/Lunar Silver
    [P+/MMI Nav+/B&O/21" Gloss BLACK SQ5 rims/Black Optic/ECodes/RS Grille/Eurocode Sways/Alu Kreuz/Bilstein PSS10 Coils/Brembo BBK/Stop Tech Rotors/ECS 17.5 Spacers/CF Mirrors, Door Handles, Engine Bay, Paddle Shifters, Interior bits/AWE S-Flo CF Intake/034 Inlet hose/MagnaFlow Exhaust/EPL Stage I tune/VCDS]

  17. #17
    Senior Member Four Rings PreciseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderDent View Post
    I think with EPL the speed limiter stays. So the SQ5 has higher limit than stock Q5.
    Yeah I asked Chris and they said they do not remove it... What I find strange is that from factory it was 130 (I hit it a few times) and now that I went EPL it is 125 (hit it once)...
    ----- My EFR 7670 Build Thread ----- "The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln -----

  18. #18
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    im not sure yet about the speed limit. i will soon,! but i rarely ever going that fast .this is my dd ,i just want to be able to have some fun and have a give some other cars a surprise.

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    I've not tried to test the speed limiter. I trust you guys who have tried it and found it limited to 125. That is a bit disappointing, but there may be a reason.

    My guess is that EPL knows that some, perhaps many, Q5's might be running tires that are not rated for higher speed.

    I opted for the optional 20" five spoke wheels with the Bridgestone Dueler HP Sport summer tires. They are "W" speed rated for 168 mph. I could definitely safely run with the speed limiter bumped up.

    While there aren't many places here where I could exceed 125, I do have a pretty heavily modified "hot hatch" that can do a bit over 160. I've confirmed that, but only done that twice over the course of many years. I don't think I'm missing a lot in the Audi. If I go stage 2 with this car, I may want to see about whether that map removes the limit.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | K&N E-1987 in stock air box

  20. #20
    Senior Member Four Rings PreciseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSq5 View Post
    I've not tried to test the speed limiter. I trust you guys who have tried it and found it limited to 125. That is a bit disappointing, but there may be a reason.

    My guess is that EPL knows that some, perhaps many, Q5's might be running tires that are not rated for higher speed.

    I opted for the optional 20" five spoke wheels with the Bridgestone Dueler HP Sport summer tires. They are "W" speed rated for 168 mph. I could definitely safely run with the speed limiter bumped up.

    While there aren't many places here where I could exceed 125, I do have a pretty heavily modified "hot hatch" that can do a bit over 160. I've confirmed that, but only done that twice over the course of many years. I don't think I'm missing a lot in the Audi. If I go stage 2 with this car, I may want to see about whether that map removes the limit.
    Yeah I have another car that will easily go over 160 (speedo stops at 160), but I can hit 140 every day on my way to work in the Q5 and would like to do so. The Q5 really gets its legs from 80 to 125, but stopping it at 125 is disappointing. I'll have to reach out to Chris and see if they are willing to remove it. If not I would rather return it (is there even a 30 day return period) and go with APR which I know removed it.
    ----- My EFR 7670 Build Thread ----- "The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln -----

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings TexasDfwS4's Avatar
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    Unitronic FTW.
    B8.5 2013 S4 Ice Silver, DSG, Uni 2+TCU, Prestige Model, MMI, B&O, Fine Napa, Sports Diff, audi assist, 19" Peelers, Carbon Atlas Inlays.
    Q5 3.0 2017 Ibis W/ BO with S-line

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings
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    FWIW, APR Stage 1 and 2 have speed limiter removed on the 3.0T tune, at least up to 140 and change
    2013 Q5 3.0T Phantom/Black
    APR Stage2 | 034 Inlet Hose | ECS 12.5/20mm | 255/50-19 DWS06 | 034 Inserts | ...

  23. #23
    Senior Member Four Rings q5 dave's Avatar
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    wuttttt they don't remove the limiter? ^^ @BlackSVT don't brag about speeding brah, that's not safe- But my q has gone faster
    2013 Q5 3.0T Phantom Black
    2013 A8L 4.0T Phantom Black

    IG @q5ds

  24. #24
    Senior Member Four Rings SQive's Avatar
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    APR removes the speed limiter. I've had mine up to 160, but it was just to see if the limiter had, in fact, been removed. I'm afraid these Q5's won't go much beyond 160 because of aerodynamics. I was racing a TTRS and we were dead even up to 125. Then he started to slowly pull away from me. Good times...
    2012 R8 GT, Suzuka with carbon fiber (#298 of 333)
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    2016 SQ5, Sepang, Black Optic, Technology, BBS CH-R Gold 20x10.5 with 295's
    -2014 SQ5, Monsoon, Sans pano, totaled by a Xanexed-out broad in a Denali XL

  25. #25
    Established Member Two Rings BierJager's Avatar
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    I initially considered APR but after discovering EPL have decided that is how I will go. Chris is still waiting on my order but now that my first service is complete, I'm ready to go forward with it. I would much prefer the ability to install the tune myself and also remove it as necessary for dealer visits etc. Stage 1 is all I will ever want and even if APR stage 1 were more powerful ( I can't say so either way ) I really don't care so long as the results are what they say. Taking a Q5 3.0T from published 270-ish crank HP to over 400 at the wheels is a massive improvement and more than enough for me.

  26. #26
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by q5 dave View Post
    wuttttt they don't remove the limiter? ^^ @BlackSVT don't brag about speeding brah, that's not safe- But my q has gone faster
    2013 Q5 3.0T Phantom/Black
    APR Stage2 | 034 Inlet Hose | ECS 12.5/20mm | 255/50-19 DWS06 | 034 Inserts | ...

  27. #27
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by BierJager View Post
    Taking a Q5 3.0T from published 270-ish crank HP to over 400 at the wheels is a massive improvement and more than enough for me.
    It's OK. We'll let that go.... Everyone on this thread has said that to themselves at one point or another! We'll see...We'll see...
    2013 Q5 3.0T Phantom/Black
    APR Stage2 | 034 Inlet Hose | ECS 12.5/20mm | 255/50-19 DWS06 | 034 Inserts | ...

  28. #28
    Senior Member Four Rings PreciseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BierJager View Post
    I initially considered APR but after discovering EPL have decided that is how I will go. Chris is still waiting on my order but now that my first service is complete, I'm ready to go forward with it. I would much prefer the ability to install the tune myself and also remove it as necessary for dealer visits etc. Stage 1 is all I will ever want and even if APR stage 1 were more powerful ( I can't say so either way ) I really don't care so long as the results are what they say. Taking a Q5 3.0T from published 270-ish crank HP to over 400 at the wheels is a massive improvement and more than enough for me.
    Stage 1 is only 345 at the wheels (per Chris at EPL).... Also from what I found out at Waterfest Unitronic allows you to flash at home as well...
    ----- My EFR 7670 Build Thread ----- "The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln -----

  29. #29
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSVT View Post
    It's OK. We'll let that go.... Everyone on this thread has said that to themselves at one point or another! We'll see...We'll see...
    this is the sad fact of modding.its never enough. lol. right now im wondering what st 2 and dual feels like.!

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings ThunderDent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseD View Post
    Stage 1 is only 345 at the wheels (per Chris at EPL).... Also from what I found out at Waterfest Unitronic allows you to flash at home as well...
    Not sure how accurate this is but:





    http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php
    2015 Audi []SQ5
    Sepang Blue--Black/Lunar Silver
    [P+/MMI Nav+/B&O/21" Gloss BLACK SQ5 rims/Black Optic/ECodes/RS Grille/Eurocode Sways/Alu Kreuz/Bilstein PSS10 Coils/Brembo BBK/Stop Tech Rotors/ECS 17.5 Spacers/CF Mirrors, Door Handles, Engine Bay, Paddle Shifters, Interior bits/AWE S-Flo CF Intake/034 Inlet hose/MagnaFlow Exhaust/EPL Stage I tune/VCDS]

  31. #31
    Senior Member Four Rings PreciseD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderDent View Post
    Not sure how accurate this is but:





    http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php
    He said at the wheels (400) which is not accurate.. Also many speculate that the Audi quattro system has a loss of about 22%, which if you look at APR's numbers are almost spot on.... So that guestimator is pretty accurate considering 345 at the wheels is about 420 at the crank with the 22% gain from drive-train loss...
    Last edited by PreciseD; 07-19-2017 at 06:00 AM.
    ----- My EFR 7670 Build Thread ----- "The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln -----

  32. #32
    Established Member Two Rings Goned's Avatar
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    Go with unitronic stage 1 and get this specs :



    And with uniconnect you can restore stock :)
    Check features:

    Description
    Performance Software Precisely Engineered for a completely stock car. Performance Software for your ECU Box Code is subject to availability.
    description-icon
    Installation
    Flashed directly through the (OBDII) Diagnostic port of your vehicle (10-15 minutes).
    description-icon
    UniCONNECT+
    This vehicle has added support through UniCONNECT+ which allows you to program your own vehicle right in your own garage. Learn More
    description-icon
    Features
    Engineered with Strict Industry Standards
    Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions
    Factory Safety Limiters Retained
    Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability
    Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort
    Power Delivery Perfectly Optimized Throughout the Power Band
    Improved Fuel Efficiency
    Speed Governor Increased to 300km/h

    OCTANE
    91 OCTANE / 95 RON GAS

    HP
    +118

    LB-FT
    +55

    This is for 91 octane.

    For 93 octane :



    Description
    Performance Software Precisely Engineered for a completely stock car. Performance Software for your ECU Box Code is subject to availability.
    description-icon
    Installation
    Flashed directly through the (OBDII) Diagnostic port of your vehicle (10-15 minutes).
    description-icon
    UniCONNECT+
    This vehicle has added support through UniCONNECT+ which allows you to program your own vehicle right in your own garage. Learn More
    description-icon
    Features
    Engineered with Strict Industry Standards
    Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions
    Factory Safety Limiters Retained
    Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability
    Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort
    Power Delivery Perfectly Optimized Throughout the Power Band
    Improved Fuel Efficiency
    Speed Governor Increased to 300km/h
    Ignition Timing Precisely Calibrated for Higher Octane Fuel

    OCTANE
    93 OCTANE / 98 RON GAS

    HP
    +143

    LB-FT
    +65

    For more....Stage 2+ :


  33. #33
    Established Member Two Rings MSq5's Avatar
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    i7
    Quote Originally Posted by Goned View Post
    Go with unitronic stage 1 and get this specs :



    And with uniconnect you can restore stock :)
    Check features:

    Description
    Performance Software Precisely Engineered for a completely stock car. Performance Software for your ECU Box Code is subject to availability.
    description-icon
    Installation
    Flashed directly through the (OBDII) Diagnostic port of your vehicle (10-15 minutes).
    description-icon
    UniCONNECT+
    This vehicle has added support through UniCONNECT+ which allows you to program your own vehicle right in your own garage. Learn More
    description-icon
    Features
    Engineered with Strict Industry Standards
    Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions
    Factory Safety Limiters Retained
    Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability
    Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort
    Power Delivery Perfectly Optimized Throughout the Power Band
    Improved Fuel Efficiency
    Speed Governor Increased to 300km/h

    OCTANE
    91 OCTANE / 95 RON GAS

    HP
    +118

    LB-FT
    +55

    This is for 91 octane.

    For 93 octane :



    Description
    Performance Software Precisely Engineered for a completely stock car. Performance Software for your ECU Box Code is subject to availability.
    description-icon
    Installation
    Flashed directly through the (OBDII) Diagnostic port of your vehicle (10-15 minutes).
    description-icon
    UniCONNECT+
    This vehicle has added support through UniCONNECT+ which allows you to program your own vehicle right in your own garage. Learn More
    description-icon
    Features
    Engineered with Strict Industry Standards
    Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions
    Factory Safety Limiters Retained
    Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability
    Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort
    Power Delivery Perfectly Optimized Throughout the Power Band
    Improved Fuel Efficiency
    Speed Governor Increased to 300km/h
    Ignition Timing Precisely Calibrated for Higher Octane Fuel

    OCTANE
    93 OCTANE / 98 RON GAS

    HP
    +143

    LB-FT
    +65

    For more....Stage 2+ :

    You do know those numbers are clearly stated to be "measured at the crankshaft." That is brake horsepower, not wheel horsepower. Please reduce those numbers by approx 20% for wheel horsepower for Audi's quattro awd. That would be about 354 whp for the 93 octane Stage 1. It will be lower if above stated 22% drive line loss is accurate - about 325 whp.

    EPL's estimate of 345 at the wheels (per Chris) for Stage 1 93 seems realistic and consistent with the other tunes mentioned.

    We need to be careful throwing these numbers and charts around. I am inclined to believe APR, EPL, GIAC and Unitronics all produce essentially equal whp and torque curves at Stage 1 93 octane level if dynoed on the same car on the same day with equal cooling efficiency (comparable IAT readings).

    My choice criteria led me to EPL. I seriously doubt choosing one of the other two mentioned here would materially change power output or drivability. I wanted to be able to user flash between stock, 91 and 93 octane tunes on my own laptop at any time with the cables I already own for no extra cost. EPL lets me do that.
    Last edited by MSq5; 07-20-2017 at 03:42 PM.
    2017 Q5 3.0T S-Line | Brilliant Black | EPL Stage 2 93 octane tune | JHM 179mm crank pulley | K&N E-1987 in stock air box

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Three Rings azndrunk74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 22 2004
    AZ Member #
    786
    Location
    Bay Area

    Very happy with my EPL stage 1. Chris has been extremely prompt with his responses and the flash at home process is ridiculously easy. I'd love to go stage 2+ with e85 but the Q5 is the wifey's car and stage 1 is more than enough for her!
    2009 E92 M3 | DCT | Space Grey | Extended Fox Red | KWV3 | Volk TE37 | ACM Mod | EAS 80mm Exhaust Tips | BW X-Pipe | Forcewerkz Skirts | Varis Diffuser | GT4 Splitter | M Performance Spoiler | M Performance Electric Wheel | Pedal Haus DCT Paddles & Pedals | Edition Grills & Gills | GTS Tune | ESS 625

    2016 Q5 3.0T | Ibis White | S-Line | Tech | Sports | Black Optics | |Spulen 15/20 Spacers | EPL Stage 1

  35. #35
    Established Member Two Rings Goned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 03 2017
    AZ Member #
    389767
    Location
    Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by MSq5 View Post
    i7

    You do know those numbers are clearly stated to be "measured at the crankshaft." That is brake horsepower, not wheel horsepower. Please reduce those numbers by approx 20% for wheel horsepower for Audi's quattro awd. That would be about 354 whp for the 93 octane Stage 1. It will be lower if above stated 22% drive line loss is accurate - about 325 whp.

    EPL's estimate of 345 at the wheels (per Chris) for Stage 1 93 seems realistic and consistent with the other tunes mentioned.

    We need to be careful throwing these numbers and charts around. I am inclined to believe APR, EPL, GIAC and Unitronics all produce essentially equal whp and torque curves at Stage 1 93 octane level if dynoed on the same car on the same day with equal cooling efficiency (comparable IAT readings).

    My choice criteria led me to EPL. I seriously doubt choosing one of the other two mentioned here would materially change power output or drivability. I wanted to be able to user flash between stock, 91 and 93 octane tunes on my own laptop at any time with the cables I already own for no extra cost. EPL lets me do that.
    I choice Unitronics because is Canadian and i'm from Canada...so for support is easy....

    If the location is not my criteria i has choose EPL for sure....

  36. #36
    Senior Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 11 2013
    AZ Member #
    114950
    Location
    Nnj

    so i have a good soild week of seat time with a lot of various types of driving, city,stop and go,highway, some high speed pulls. i got to 120 no problem, didn't have the balls to go to speed limter .going pass a cop at 100+ no Bueno . but I'm throughly impressed by the apr st 1. more power amd torque throughout the entire rpm range. this makes for me atleast the perfect daily driver. my stage 3 b5s4 is still faster,but no where as smooth and q5 and the q has a much usable power band.

    so i just want to add my experience to the forum about the apr st 1 . im not saying its better or worse then any others out there. definitely a must upgrade for 3.0.

    i do have to admit I'm curious about doing a pulley upgrade as i hear it adds a bit more power but more importantly it improves the power band .anyone have any opinions on that?

  37. #37
    Senior Member Four Rings riceboy22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 26 2015
    AZ Member #
    322788
    My Garage
    2015 Audi SQ5, Felt F65x
    Location
    New York, NY

    Why, hello there. Head on over to the APR Dual Pulley and Ultracharger now Available! thread.

    Glad to hear you're happy with the tune. I honestly don't think I've heard anyone complain about stage 1 from any tuner. As far as pulleys go, you'd definitely feel a noticeable difference in the mid-range by upping your pulley ratio. I noticed a significant difference even now going from the standard Stage 2 SC pulley (2.808 ratio) to dual pulley with a 187mm Fluidampr (3.238 ratio). Keep in mind that above a certain ratio you need upgraded cooling to keep IAT under control. My personal opinion if you ever go Stage 2 is to just get a Fluidampr rather than a SC pulley. The stock crankshaft pulley is considered a weak point to begin with, and the Fluidampr provides superior damping while also being easier to install than the SC pulley and also gives the option to swap rings to change your pulley size.

    BTW, it looks like you're in NJ. There's more than couple of us tuned to various levels in the area, so maybe you can get some seat time at a GTG later in the summer. I also wouldn't mind checking out your Stage 3 B5 S4 haha.
    Current
    2015 Audi SQ5 3.0 TFSI (Build Thread | Flickr | Instagram)

    Past
    2006 Lexus IS350 | 2001 Audi S4 | 2000 Honda S2000 | 1999 Yamaha YZF-R6 | 1995 Acura Integra GS-R

  38. #38
    Senior Member Four Rings PreciseD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 05 2014
    AZ Member #
    143391
    My Garage
    2004 Audi A4 2.0BAT, 2014 Q5 3.0T, 2014 VW Passat Sport, 2005 A4 USP Avant 1.8BT
    Location
    Orange County NY
    Items for Sale

    Quote Originally Posted by riceboy22 View Post
    Why, hello there. Head on over to the APR Dual Pulley and Ultracharger now Available! thread.

    Glad to hear you're happy with the tune. I honestly don't think I've heard anyone complain about stage 1 from any tuner. As far as pulleys go, you'd definitely feel a noticeable difference in the mid-range by upping your pulley ratio. I noticed a significant difference even now going from the standard Stage 2 SC pulley (2.808 ratio) to dual pulley with a 187mm Fluidampr (3.238 ratio). Keep in mind that above a certain ratio you need upgraded cooling to keep IAT under control. My personal opinion if you ever go Stage 2 is to just get a Fluidampr rather than a SC pulley. The stock crankshaft pulley is considered a weak point to begin with, and the Fluidampr provides superior damping while also being easier to install than the SC pulley and also gives the option to swap rings to change your pulley size.

    BTW, it looks like you're in NJ. There's more than couple of us tuned to various levels in the area, so maybe you can get some seat time at a GTG later in the summer. I also wouldn't mind checking out your Stage 3 B5 S4 haha.
    Can you get the same 3.238 ratio with just a fluidampr pulley? I know they make them in many different sizes, but didn't know which size will get you to what final ratio...
    ----- My EFR 7670 Build Thread ----- "The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity" - Abraham Lincoln -----

  39. #39
    Senior Member Four Rings riceboy22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 26 2015
    AZ Member #
    322788
    My Garage
    2015 Audi SQ5, Felt F65x
    Location
    New York, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by PreciseD View Post
    Can you get the same 3.238 ratio with just a fluidampr pulley? I know they make them in many different sizes, but didn't know which size will get you to what final ratio...
    You can get pretty close (basically immaterial difference) just running the Fluidampr. I believe there are a few S4/S5 guys running 203mm which puts you at a ratio of 3.209. Check out the **OFFICIAL** Life Beyond Stage II: the higher pulley ratio development thread.
    Current
    2015 Audi SQ5 3.0 TFSI (Build Thread | Flickr | Instagram)

    Past
    2006 Lexus IS350 | 2001 Audi S4 | 2000 Honda S2000 | 1999 Yamaha YZF-R6 | 1995 Acura Integra GS-R

  40. #40
    Established Member Three Rings BG SQ5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 21 2016
    AZ Member #
    369079
    My Garage
    '07 CBR1000RR
    Location
    PA

    APR (187/57.75) is 3.238. 203 only is 3.209 (iABED and KI offerings). 206 only is 3.257. iABED will do custom sizes as well, so you could get a 204.8 to match APR's ratio perfectly.
    '15 SQ5 Daytona Gray
    APR stage 2 (93 v4) - Fluidampr w/iABED 187mm - aFe filter/034 tube/modified box - MercRacing stacked h/x - AWE Touring
    21" Forgestar CF10s w/295s - 034 mounts, RSB & end links - ecodes - deAuto LEDs - VCDS
    12.054 @ 113.27 (-224 DA)

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