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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    What happens if you put stage 2 tune on w/o DP?

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    This is just hypothetical question. I have APR DPs, but what happens theoretically if one has stage 2 tune and no DPs? Does the restriction negate any power gains? Does it damage the car b/c of increased pressure b/c of smaller diameter?

    Just curious.
    Audi S7

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Why would you want to do that for?
    I would see if you were asking if you could run the downpipes without the tune. But the reverse doesn't make sound sense; in my honest opinion. That's like me asking if I should run a stage 2 tune on my car with no pulleys.
    The hardware should be in line for what the tune calls for. In some cases it's better to have too much hardware and the software to follow versus the other way around.
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I'm just curious what would happen. Sometimes you just wanna know for the sake of knowing.

    DPs are bigger diameter and more flow. If Stage 2 gives more power and boost, would it work at a lesser power? Would it cause damage? Would it do nothing?
    Audi S7

  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    A character called VOL4.0 went in about this over and and over and did it successfully

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    Audi S6 C7.5 Avant MY2016 Sepang Blue Revo Stage 1, Revo RS Intake, X-Pipe & Resonator Delete 540BHP 550FLBS.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Four Rings DGVR6's Avatar
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    IMO, nothing. Most of the gains come from less restriction, i think there's probably very very little gain with just software alone.

    Stage 1 with just downpipes or even stock software you'll yield a quicker spool which would bring in more torque early on

  6. #6
    Senior Member Four Rings DGVR6's Avatar
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    But without software, I think you'll probably damage your car.. with less restriction sometimes brings in boost creep.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings sciblades's Avatar
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    You melt your cats due to too much heat

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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciblades View Post
    You melt your cats due to too much heat

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    ahhh that makes sense!
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pez81 View Post
    A character called VOL4.0 went in about this over and and over and did it successfully

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    he never used a off the shelf stage 2 tune, he always had a "custom" tune on the car and swore (without evidence) that downpipes made no difference in power
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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings wwhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saxon View Post
    he never used a off the shelf stage 2 tune, he always had a "custom" tune on the car and swore (without evidence) that downpipes made no difference in power
    He was also focused on 1/4 mile time, not off the line throttle response (low end torque)
    2016 S6 Sport

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    I have been running stg2 with no downpipes for a little while now
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDwerks View Post
    I have been running stg2 with no downpipes for a little while now
    Interesting mike. Any issues so far,?

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  13. #13
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by pez81 View Post
    Interesting mike. Any issues so far,?

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    No issues. I have done some basic VCDS logging just to see if timing is being pulled that might indicate a threshold is being is being reached that the ECU does not like, and all was clean.

    I have downpipes, but have not installed them yet, so I am not one that thinks they don't add any value. The ECU is very sophisticated and as long as the tune has not altered the safety parameters built in, my opinion is that it will do it's job to protect things if needed.

    I am not endorsing that people do it. I have no quantitative evidence to show I am making more power, or less power, or the power difference if I had DP's installed.
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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings ericw.'s Avatar
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    Worst case scenario you melt your cats.
    Second possibility is your car falls on it's face under hard acceleration (limp mode).
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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    if you melt your cats, don't you just go apr dps? :)
    Audi S7

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings ericw.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishing View Post
    if you melt your cats, don't you just go apr dps? :)
    that would be the solution most of us would go with. lol, but if you want to go that route it's probably better to proactively do it rather than re-actively waiting to break something.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Where did these comments come from about "melting cats"? I would be interested to hear how that is realistic.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Maybe it's all a conspiracy to sell downpipes
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings ericw.'s Avatar
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    The idea is that you tune to increase efficiency through better air flow. You restrict the air flow mechanically but the ECU still tries to send the same amount of air and excess heat (engine runs hotter because race car tune) down the exhaust pipes. Heat and excess exhaust gets built up behind the cats. Thus you end up with melted cat like in pic above.
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  20. #20
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Let's not forget that RS have exactly the same downpipes and when running stage 1 are putting out more power through them same downpipes with zero issue's.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barritia View Post
    Let's not forget that RS have exactly the same downpipes and when running stage 1 are putting out more power through them same downpipes with zero issue's.
    They also run a different amount of boost/timing which will result in different egt's
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  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings ericw.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barritia View Post
    Let's not forget that RS have exactly the same downpipes and when running stage 1 are putting out more power through them same downpipes with zero issue's.
    Also true, but 1/4 mile times continue to show improvements from stage 1 to stage 2 with down pipes on both platforms.
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  23. #23
    Established Member Three Rings
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    I don't think anyone's done a stage 2 before and after downpipes so who knows where the power split is between software/hardware.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Four Rings DGVR6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericw. View Post
    Also true, but 1/4 mile times continue to show improvements from stage 1 to stage 2 with down pipes on both platforms.
    I went to the track this afternoon. Same issue running 100 oct, too much torque down low, no traction.

    Stage 1 100 oct trap : 123.42
    Stage 2 100 oct trap: 124.28

    Slips were pretty identical 60/330 etc. just off by a few hundredths, conditions were similar too
    Pretty bummed that it's just a 1mph trap. Let that sink in for a sec. then again APR claims a 16 hp gain, but for the money.. not worth it
    C7.5 is different than the C7s though, for some reason they benefit from downpipes.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings ericw.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGVR6 View Post
    I went to the track this afternoon. Same issue running 100 oct, too much torque down low, no traction.

    Stage 1 100 oct trap : 123.42
    Stage 2 100 oct trap: 124.28

    Slips were pretty identical 60/330 etc. just off by a few hundredths, conditions were similar too
    Pretty bummed that it's just a 1mph trap. Let that sink in for a sec. then again APR claims a 16 hp gain, but for the money.. not worth it
    C7.5 is different than the C7s though, for some reason they benefit from downpipes.
    Next mod: sticky track tires and lightweight wheels? Have you already tried to lower your tire pressure? Might help the traction issue.

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  26. #26
    Senior Member Four Rings DGVR6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericw. View Post
    Next mod: sticky track tires and lightweight wheels? Have you already tried to lower your tire pressure? Might help the traction issue.

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    Yea, I played around with air pressure. Got them down to 39/36 on the stockers, I need to lower my launch control limit also.
    I have lightweight wheels and some pss too but unfortunately one rim is bent and the replacement wheel has no ETA :(

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGVR6 View Post
    Yea, I played around with air pressure. Got them down to 39/36 on the stockers, I need to lower my launch control limit also.
    I have lightweight wheels and some pss too but unfortunately one rim is bent and the replacement wheel has no ETA :(
    the biggest problem i had with my car was that i had no control over launching. it would just light up the tires and if i was lucky shift into 2nd gear

    if apr/unitronic/epl would allow end users to have an interface to change botl and rpm in smaller increments it would greatly help the s6/7 crowd
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Four Rings DGVR6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saxon View Post
    the biggest problem i had with my car was that i had no control over launching. it would just light up the tires and if i was lucky shift into 2nd gear

    if apr/unitronic/epl would allow end users to have an interface to change botl and rpm in smaller increments it would greatly help the s6/7 crowd
    Agreed, that's actually a great idea. If uni or EPL can offer and allow us to adjust our launch control settings in increments we would be able to fine tune for traction conditions on the fly.

    Doubt apr would even bother. Everything is dealer with those guys
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    With APR you can adjust your launch rpm. You get to choose three rpm
    points and can toggle between them on demand.

    At least that is the way I understand it

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I wish we could pick shift points in D! and launch control!
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  31. #31
    Established Member Three Rings
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    John at Unitronic said he would do me some custom maps with different launch RPMs. Not able to change them in the fly but 99% of my driving is poor grip roads be be handy to have some options.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Four Rings DGVR6's Avatar
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    Well what saxon is saying is a bit more deeper than just launch control, it's total control of your launch.
    Limit some torque in first gear and get the RPM just right
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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings saxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGVR6 View Post
    Well what saxon is saying is a bit more deeper than just launch control, it's total control of your launch.
    Limit some torque in first gear and get the RPM just right
    correct, combine that with boost by gear control and you actually might have something comparable to other platforms :)
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  34. #34
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by saxon View Post
    correct, combine that with boost by gear control and you actually might have something comparable to other platforms :)
    That is great and all, just don't ever see it happening with this platform. There is simply not enough units on the road and enough owners of those units who are the demographic to care (or understand) enough to buy and use those features. Those of us that would, should have our eyes wide open enough when we start moding this platform to know that going into it. Or buy a GTR :) if you want a platform with significant aftermarket support

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