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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings Morbo's Avatar
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    Sequential shifter is backwards

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    1st world problem i know ... and I'm not expecting an actual "solution".
    But my OCD drives me nuts whenever I see this, and it's been like this for as long as I can remember on Audi's with DSG/DCT. Since there is a forum here with a nice friendly Audi rep, I wanted to get this off my chest. Maybe someone can actually give me a good reason as to why it is ...
    (Porsches have the same problem, except for the 991 GT3, where it is the correct way so some one at Porsche is paying attention finally)



    The shift up and shift down pattern on the sequential shifter is backwards.

    If you look at a race or rally car with sequential shifter you will see:
    Shift DOWN = push forward toward front
    Shift UP = Pull backward toward driver.

    This is because g-forces dictate that when you are braking hard, it's easier for your hand to go with the g-force and push forward to downshift.
    When you are accelerating hard, it's easier for your hand to follow the g forces pulling your body back into the seat and pull back to upshift.

    On Audis, it is the exact opposite. This is especially surprising given the long racing history of Audi ... i'm surprised not a single engineer caught this?

    Unless there is some weird technical reason it's backwards on Audis that I'm no aware of? I would think given the nature of today's cars/transmission, the shifter on a DSG/DCT isn't even connected to anything physical is it? Isn't it all just software these days?

    I will get off my soap box now.
    "The automobile is still a heap of mechanical components, and should feel like such, not like a smartphone on wheels" - Andreas Preuninger

  2. #2
    Audi Customer Experience Three Rings Audi USA's Avatar
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    Hello there. Let me reach out to some resources and see if I can find any information on the design. I'll follow up once I hear more.
    Vincenzo F.

    Audi Social Community Manager

  3. #3
    Established Member Three Rings Batman0424's Avatar
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    I would like to know this too and hope this will change in the future.

    Coming from an E92 M3, which down was push and up was pull, I really do not like the current setup. Granted, I do use the paddles 99.9% of the time, but I almost exclusively manually shift and when cruising around, it would be nice to use the shift lever instead of the paddles.
    2015 Audi S4 | DSG | Florett Silver | Black Leather / Alcantara | B&O
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  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings Morbo's Avatar
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    987.2 - the last of the hydraulic steer NA flat 6s.
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    For reference - Porsche has changed it as of the new 991.2 (2nd gen 991) and the new 718 Boxster/Cayman models.
    All new PDK cars as of MY2016 have it correct now.

    Nice picture on this thread:
    https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8635...on-change.html

    Come on Audi, you don't want to be left behind by your corporate cousins do you?
    "The automobile is still a heap of mechanical components, and should feel like such, not like a smartphone on wheels" - Andreas Preuninger

  5. #5
    Audi Customer Experience Three Rings Audi USA's Avatar
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    Hey everyone, I didn't forget about you. I'm just waiting on more information from some resources. Once I hear back, I'll post. Thanks for your patience.
    Vincenzo F.

    Audi Social Community Manager

  6. #6
    Active Member Two Rings spensley's Avatar
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    I agree with everything Morbo states.
    However...
    It could simply be a matter of ergonomics, relating to the 'everyday driver'.
    For most people who don't race with 'normal' sequential gear boxes, it may make more sense that pushing forward goes up through the gears - pushing forward = going forward/faster. Vice versa, pulling back equates to slowing down.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings jfo's Avatar
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    To me the current approach is quite intuitive...forward or "up" to shift up and back or "down" to shift down. Probably the overwhelming majority of Audi drivers feel this way or simply don't care.
    2011 A4 Avant quattro tiptronic/ Eurocode Sway Bars, End Links, Alu Kreuz/ 034 Catch Can/ Various VagCom

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings Morbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfo View Post
    To me the current approach is quite intuitive...forward or "up" to shift up and back or "down" to shift down. Probably the overwhelming majority of Audi drivers feel this way or simply don't care.
    If majority of Audi drivers don't care either way, then no one should complain if Audi fixes it to shift the correct way then.

    Or we could tell Mattias Ekstrom that his 600HP FIA RX championship winning Audi Sport S1 has the shifter backwards because "majority of Audi drivers don't care".





    Or we could ask 9 time WRC champion Seb Loeb why he's been shifting "un-intuitively" his whole career according to majority of Audi drivers ...





    "The automobile is still a heap of mechanical components, and should feel like such, not like a smartphone on wheels" - Andreas Preuninger

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    But what do the opinions of Audi drivers in their daily drivers have to do with racing drivers in their racing cars? Why do you relate one to the other? Two vehicles designed to achieve completely different things.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings jfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbo View Post
    If majority of Audi drivers don't care either way, then no one should complain if Audi fixes it to shift the correct way then.

    Or we could tell Mattias Ekstrom that his 600HP FIA RX championship winning Audi Sport S1 has the shifter backwards because "majority of Audi drivers don't care".
    No, you miss my point. The majority of Audi drivers are perfectly happy with the status quo, and would not be happy with your suggestion.
    And the overwhelming majority of Audi drivers really don't care what Ekstrom likes or wants. It has nothing to do with us!
    You have to accept that you are in a small fringe minority I'm afraid.
    2011 A4 Avant quattro tiptronic/ Eurocode Sway Bars, End Links, Alu Kreuz/ 034 Catch Can/ Various VagCom

  11. #11
    Audi Customer Experience Three Rings Audi USA's Avatar
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    Hello, everyone!

    The current execution is generally accepted as intuitive amongst the mainstream customers and automotive manufacturers. Folklore tells us that this behavior is rooted in horseback riding (pulling back on the reins will slow the horse). But more recently, the evolution of the automatic transmission had the lowest gears at the back of the shift gate (P-R-N-D-3-2-1) so to downshift you would pull back on the transmission lever. You are correct, the opposite execution is rooted in racing based on the natural g-forces that are experienced while accelerating and braking. We have no plans to implement a change at this time.
    Vincenzo F.

    Audi Social Community Manager

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfo View Post
    No, you miss my point. The majority of Audi drivers are perfectly happy with the status quo, and would not be happy with your suggestion.
    And the overwhelming majority of Audi drivers really don't care what Ekstrom likes or wants. It has nothing to do with us!
    You have to accept that you are in a small fringe minority I'm afraid.
    I disagree, our Audis are backward. Pull back to shift up is correct. If you don't like it that way, fine, but that is the best practice according to pretty much everyone with enough wisdom to be qualified as an expert. But even if you are in the majority, which I don't necessarily agree that you are, you're in a majority that is wrong. Personally, I think if Audi "fixed" this issue they would be praised for it. I hope in the future Audi will reconsider.

    Anyway, I still love my S6. It's a fantastic car. But certainly not perfect. As a professional driving instructor and part time rally racer I've always felt the suspension tuning left a little bit to be desired as well. All in all, I still score the S6 ahead of it's competition and that is why I bought one. After all, no car is perfect.

  13. #13
    Registered Member One Ring
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    For somebody that rides horses, it works fine for me. I used to have a Honda Prelude with the sport shift and I loved it.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Four Rings eljay's Avatar
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    I agree with OP.

    If these features for "mainstream drivers" keep up the sales and Audi profitable, so that it can bring us enthusiast products and keep the manual transmission alive, I'd be OK with it. But since even those are becoming mainstream, I will enthusiastically jump onto the soap box and join the fainting voices.

    Soon, none of this will matter as "people" will just prefer to be driven around in their self-driving cars.
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  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings character zero's Avatar
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    Great question, OP!

    I too, agree with the OP and those videos gave me a chuckle. The current setup of S-Tronic feels backward to me. It must be because I come from driving manual transmissions most of my life. Shifting from 1st to 2nd gear in most of the cars that I'm familiar with require pulling the lever back to increase speed. 3rd and 5th gears never feel as easy as 2, 4, and 6 when you're accelerating- only downshifting or decelerating.
    I'd be willing to bet that most Audi drivers of today have never driven a manual tranny. Maybe the same goes for Audi engineers?
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