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  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Brakes... pads, cylinder, BBKs... what are the sensible options for street use...

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    So, notwithstanding the B8 circle of life thread , I can't find the information I'm after in one place. I have a stage 2 B8.5 S5 with AWE touring (know this is the S4 forum, but people seem to mod S4's a bit more than S5's) and I feel I want to upgrade the braking. I only drive on the street and have no interest in track days, but I'd like a bit more stopping power. As far as I can tell, the mods that can be done are:
    • Doing nothing
    • Change pads and keep standard calipers which can fine tune the brakes
    • Change calipers for something with more pots and possibly go with different pads too
    • Change the master cylinder (sure I've seen someone says this increases the force on the pads somewhere)
    • Go with a BBK which may involve limiting wheel choice and or spacers (I have 20" 5 double spoke for summers and 19" Y spoke for winters)


    I'm really after something that will feel more aggressive for the same pedal force and whilst I do do some spirited driving around country lanes, 95% of my miles are fast roads with very few points of stopping (unless some idiot pulls out when they shouldn't in which case I want to STOP). Can any of the experts on here outline the +/- of these options to help me out? If a 3k Brembo set is going to set my daily drive alight, I'll pay, but I don't want to pay 3k only to find I've got some nice looking brakes that work really well on a track, but are indistinguishable from standard S5 brakes when on the road.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arad85 View Post
    So, notwithstanding the B8 circle of life thread , I can't find the information I'm after in one place. I have a stage 2 B8.5 S5 with AWE touring (know this is the S4 forum, but people seem to mod S4's a bit more than S5's) and I feel I want to upgrade the braking. I only drive on the street and have no interest in track days, but I'd like a bit more stopping power. As far as I can tell, the mods that can be done are:
    • Doing nothing
    • Change pads and keep standard calipers which can fine tune the brakes
    • Change calipers for something with more pots and possibly go with different pads too
    • Change the master cylinder (sure I've seen someone says this increases the force on the pads somewhere)
    • Go with a BBK which may involve limiting wheel choice and or spacers (I have 20" 5 double spoke for summers and 19" Y spoke for winters)


    I'm really after something that will feel more aggressive for the same pedal force and whilst I do do some spirited driving around country lanes, 95% of my miles are fast roads with very few points of stopping (unless some idiot pulls out when they shouldn't in which case I want to STOP). Can any of the experts on here outline the +/- of these options to help me out? If a 3k Brembo set is going to set my daily drive alight, I'll pay, but I don't want to pay 3k only to find I've got some nice looking brakes that work really well on a track, but are indistinguishable from standard S5 brakes when on the road.

    Based on your needs it sounds like sticking with OEM pads and a good high temp fluid like SRF or RBF660 is all you really need. A BBK is not likely to make you stop much faster assuming your stock system is working optimally. Thats not its intended purpose. A more aggressive race pad is also not likely to stop you any faster. Actually if you are not heating your pads up too much you may stop much worse using a race pad.... even dangerously so if you pick the wrong compound and dont warm it up. The stock pads are extremely aggressive when it comes to initial bite ... to the point that some people change them out for a less aggressive feel and more progressive pad. I, personally, like pads with a lot of initial bite so they dont bother me a bit. Bottom line is that I am wondering where your deficiency really is? What is it exactly that isnt working for you with respect to braking? You may just want to get stickier tires if you want to feel some more aggressive braking forces. Those WILL help you stop sooner.

    Mike
    2013 Audi S5 DSG
    Unitronic Stage 2++ ECU & TCU, 189mm/57mm, Revo Charge Cooler, CTS Turbo Intake
    11.482 at 118.70mph - 97 octane - +465DA
    11.605 at 118.76mph - 93 octane - +544DA
    Gone:
    2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  3. #3
    Senior Member Three Rings Zaxon55's Avatar
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    Mar 13 2014
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    Sounds like you might be a good candidate for the SQ5 kit. I believe it bolts up the same way on the 5 as it does on the 4, but you would want to confirm.

    Something like this.
    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...AdAaArwD8P8HAQ
    2013 B8.5 - Moonlight Blue Metallic
    - VMR V710 19x9.5 -APR Dual Pulley -AWE Coldfront System -Eurocode Alu Kreuz -Front/Rear Sways and Endlinks -H&R OE Sport Springs -SPC Control Arms -034 Transmission Mount and Diff Mount -Roc Euro Intake -Porsche BBK with ECS Drilled/Slotted Rotors, SS Lines, Pads -CR-15 Upper Strut Tower Brace -AWE Touring Exhaust (102mm and stock downpipes) -Deval Diffuser, ECS front and rear spoilers.

    2015 Q5 TDI - Moonlight Blue Metallic
    -Brand new, no mods yet.

  4. #4
    Active Member Three Rings FromRagsToS4's Avatar
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    Idaho

    What about the Q5 brakes? Can anyone weigh on on those? I saw that someone got these to work with their S4, but that's just one person.
    2014 S4 Premium Plus/Glacier White Metallic/6spd Manual/Sports Diff/Adaptive Damping Suspension/Black Napa Leather/19" Peelers/B&O Sound/MMI-Navi/Side Assist/Carbon Atlas Inlays

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    I would question why you would do that mod for anything other than looks.
    2013 Audi S5 DSG
    Unitronic Stage 2++ ECU & TCU, 189mm/57mm, Revo Charge Cooler, CTS Turbo Intake
    11.482 at 118.70mph - 97 octane - +465DA
    11.605 at 118.76mph - 93 octane - +544DA
    Gone:
    2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  6. #6
    Established Member Three Rings rubicant5x's Avatar
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    Cleveland, OH

    FWIW, I got a deal on the RS5 front calipers, ECS 365mm wave rotors and EBC Redtsuff pads. Great upgrade for the street. The OEM S4 front calipers have too much initial bite and then tons of fade. The RS5 setup is a nice, linear brake curve where the more you press on the pedal, the more bite you get - which is how it should be. I went a step further and upgraded the master cylinder to the RS5 one (which required a B8 booster) which made all the difference in the world with pedal feel. The Redstuff has significantly less brake dust and better overall braking once the pads are warmed up (which takes about 500 feet of driving with normal braking).
    Matt

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings blackfunk's Avatar
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    Honestly get better pads suited to what you're looking for.

    Mike is 100% right. When you brake you're stopping from speed, not from HP. Meaning 100mph with 500hp under the hood is the same as stopping from 100mph with 333hp under the hood. A BBK primary function is repeatability - you get consistent stopping power over many high speed stops. If this isn't what you're doing regularly then the stock setup with more aggressive pads/rotors/fluid will accomplish everything you're looking for. I do think that within reason a BBK adds better pedal feel along with a more linear application of stopping power but since you're happy with your current setup's feel then my suggestion is start with pads and maybe rotors - I think you'll be surprised with the results.
    Life has taught me never try to make something idiot proof, they'll simply come up with a better idiot.

  8. #8
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
    Bottom line is that I am wondering where your deficiency really is? What is it exactly that isnt working for you with respect to braking?
    I've come from a slower (and lighter) A3 and could depress the pedal and almost stop on a dime/sixpence (delete according to your country). I find the S5 to not be quite as compliant when pressing the pedal - I feel I have to press harder, which makes me feel I'm getting closer to the edge. What I'm after is more stopping power for the same weight on the pedal. I've discounted any form of race pads - I don't think they'd suit my driving style. I also can't see why the Q5 kit would add much over the stock brakes other than looks.

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Pitsburgh, PA

    Quote Originally Posted by FromRagsToS4 View Post
    What about the Q5 brakes? Can anyone weigh on on those? I saw that someone got these to work with their S4, but that's just one person.
    Breaking them in now with CTS-V Brembo/ferodo pads ($100 bucks from GM!). Was a pita to get the air out of the system but initial review is positive. They are not even close to being broken in yet, but stay tuned once I put some miles on them.
    Last edited by administerturbo; 04-21-2017 at 10:54 AM.

  10. #10
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfunk View Post
    since you're happy with your current setup's feel then my suggestion is start with pads and maybe rotors - I think you'll be surprised with the results.
    I like this approach - it's cheaper! Which would you suggest to look at first...

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by arad85 View Post
    I've come from a slower (and lighter) A3 and could depress the pedal and almost stop on a dime/sixpence (delete according to your country). I find the S5 to not be quite as compliant when pressing the pedal - I feel I have to press harder, which makes me feel I'm getting closer to the edge. What I'm after is more stopping power for the same weight on the pedal. I've discounted any form of race pads - I don't think they'd suit my driving style. I also can't see why the Q5 kit would add much over the stock brakes other than looks.
    They are lighter, stiffer, have more pistons, better brake pad availability, and should diffuse heat better since they are all alloy instead of iron. They fit with oem hardware, heat shields and lines.

  12. #12
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by administerturbo View Post
    They are lighter, stiffer, have more pistons, better brake pad availability, and should diffuse heat better since they are all alloy instead of iron. They fit with oem hardware, heat shields and lines.
    Can I ask some potentally stupid question:
    • Lighter - how does that help with stopping quicker or do you mean the rotors are lighter hence less mass to accelerate/stop
    • Stiffer - I guess that gives more consistency
    • Better pad availability - OK, I can see more choice is better
    • Diffuse heat better - is this important for normal street driving or even aggressive street? I live in the UK so it isn't that often we get long runs where brakes are heated a lot.
    • alloy vs iron - assuming you mean the caliper - what's the advantage here?


    Sorry, still trying to learn the tradeoffs here.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings blackfunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arad85 View Post
    I like this approach - it's cheaper! Which would you suggest to look at first...
    Unfortunately I've only had stock brakes then Akebono then BBK, so I have no first hand experience with different pads on this platform.
    Life has taught me never try to make something idiot proof, they'll simply come up with a better idiot.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arad85 View Post
    I've come from a slower (and lighter) A3 and could depress the pedal and almost stop on a dime/sixpence (delete according to your country). I find the S5 to not be quite as compliant when pressing the pedal - I feel I have to press harder, which makes me feel I'm getting closer to the edge. What I'm after is more stopping power for the same weight on the pedal. I've discounted any form of race pads - I don't think they'd suit my driving style. I also can't see why the Q5 kit would add much over the stock brakes other than looks.
    I'll be honest thats a tough one because most people would tend to say the brakes on the S4/S5 are a bit grabby and would want them to feel a bit more progressive (you have to press harder at first and the harder you press the more it stops). I'm not as much in that camp like I was saying so I like the OEM pads fine actually.

    But if you are feeling more like it is not a stiff enough pedal which you are also describing, you may actually want to try getting some fresh and high quality fluid in there and... dare I say it... even try some stainless steal brake lines. I have never recommended them before because in honestly I feel they are kind of a waste of money as far as actually improving objective braking that much and there is also no guarantee they are made to the same quality standard as the OEM lines BUT... they should firm up the pedal a tiny bit as well with that fresh fluid so it may actually be what you are looking for. As far as a pad with more bite than the OEM... i'm not sure I could come up with one. Plenty that will resist fade more and plenty that will reduce dust but for bite the OEM is prob your best bet. Maybe someone else can make a recommendation.


    The final thing would be the tires. You are 100% that your S4 is much heavier than your A3. Getting it to brake as well or change direction as well is not easy. You'll have to do a lot more to the S4 than you would to the A3 to get it to be agile. That being said, you will have to have better traction from the tires to stop a 4000lb car versus a 3500lb car as well. Making sure you are running the best compound tire for your driving habits will be important if you want the car to be responsive (in braking, turning, etc).

    Mike
    2013 Audi S5 DSG
    Unitronic Stage 2++ ECU & TCU, 189mm/57mm, Revo Charge Cooler, CTS Turbo Intake
    11.482 at 118.70mph - 97 octane - +465DA
    11.605 at 118.76mph - 93 octane - +544DA
    Gone:
    2016 A6 -- 2015 S4 -- 2009 A4 -- 2004 S4 -- 2006 A4 -- 2003 A4 -- 2000 A4

  15. #15
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Thanks Mike. I'm running Conti Sport Contact 3's at the moment (still on stock tyres). Not quite sure where to go given the comments....

  16. #16
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by arad85 View Post
    Thanks Mike. I'm running Conti Sport Contact 3's at the moment (still on stock tyres). Not quite sure where to go given the comments....
    @arad85; I am in the same boat as you are buddy. Learning about the car and now that mine is Stage 2 as well I have been looking at changing/upgrading the break. I agree with you re: the stopping power, it needs to improve or perhaps has to improve. I have another B7 Sline and it's stopping and initial bite is a lot better than the S4. I am afraid I have nothing else to add apart from having a look at ECS brake kit (excluding the RS5 and Q5 setup) I am closely following your thread as it is going to help me as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    S4 B8.5 | MRC Stage 2 | Glacier White | My Remap thread: MRC Stage 2 and DSG Remap
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  17. #17
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Forgot to mention &as @bhvrdr mention the first thing I did was to replace all 4 tyres. Running PS3s now. Has it actually improved anything, I am not sure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    S4 B8.5 | MRC Stage 2 | Glacier White | My Remap thread: MRC Stage 2 and DSG Remap
    Milltek Non-Resonated Catback | ECS Rear Carbon Fibre diffuser | 034 Rear Sway Bar | 034 Billet Aluminium Trans Mount
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  18. #18
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Better tires is the best way to go when its time to change them. Changing the brake fluid will help if you have not done this before. Hard braking really takes it toll on the fluid. Pick your favorite brand ATE, Motul or many others.
    This is by far the least expensive 1st step. I would recommend the stock pads over EBC red or yellow pads, the stock work really well unless you track the car

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