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  1. #41
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by db12 View Post
    I used to think changing out the brakes was scary until I did it. Got tired of paying labor for pad swaps and rotors etc for tracking the vehicle. Only kicker like others have mentioned is the vag com (very useful to own for other reasons as well though). Takes about an hour to do all 4 rotors and pads in my garage. With no practice, maybe 2.
    I would have him try Carista. It does the rear brakes and several custom enhancements. http://www.caristaapp.com/
    2014 S5-DSG with Sport Differential|CTS Intake|034 Rear Sway Bar, End links and Insert Kit|CR-15|H&R Sport |Custom Exhaust|ST-60|PLM| Alu Kreuz |GIAC S2+/GIAC TCU

  2. #42
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings PK Auto Design's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR7D1 View Post
    I would have him try Carista. It does the rear brakes and several custom enhancements. http://www.caristaapp.com/
    +1 for carista.
    You can get some VAG-COM functionality with it also.
    I coded my A4 for the LEDS to stay on while the blinker is going. Opening the windows with the key is also a nice touch.

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  3. #43
    Established Member Two Rings
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    For anyone curious. I agree with all your comments above, but I needed it done, and will plan ahead for the DIY next time


  4. #44
    Veteran Member Four Rings DannyDeez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amusante View Post
    Speedsport Tuning - I guess I'll take a look at the DIY's and see if I can really get this done
    Speedsport is good and their prices are definitely fair.
    2012 Brilliant Black S4 Prestige, 6 speed (Click for thread)

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  5. #45
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyDeez View Post
    Speedsport is good and their prices are definitely fair.
    Absolutely, been bringing my car there for 6-7 years. Chris is the man. Even though they work on million dollar cars and build Porsche race cars, the guy still knows my name every time I walk in with my lowly S4.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Three Rings hotleadsingergu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4Phantom View Post
    I work in a shop. When we do pads and rotors we get between 1.5 hrs and 2 hrs per axle. It's how a shop makes money. When a customer wants to bring their own parts I go up 1/2 hour on labor because again, we need to make money to stay in business and when you bring parts, we don't make money on that. When people drive expensive cars, if you are not doing the repairs yourself, you should be expecting to pay for the work you want done. I would probably charge someone with an Audi, BMW, Mercedes ect about $500 to install their own parts for all 4 wheels. Just my 2 cents
    I really hope nobody on this forum ever goes to your shop, and honestly I hope your business drops to the point that you realize how shitty you're being with your customers. This whole "we need to make money" nonsense is bad business. You're charging extra when someone brings their own parts because you're making less money off of it? What a way to lose customers.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    I really hope nobody on this forum ever goes to your shop, and honestly I hope your business drops to the point that you realize how shitty you're being with your customers. This whole "we need to make money" nonsense is bad business. You're charging extra when someone brings their own parts because you're making less money off of it? What a way to lose customers.
    I hope you never come here either because clearly you think peoples time is worthless and that we are here to do you favors. You want to buy your own parts? Put them on your own car. Try that at a restaurant "Hey I brought my own steak and I want you to cook it because it was only $20 in the store and you want $40 for it". And our business is doing just fine thank you. We are number one in 5 star reviews online in our city and we have a lot of happy customers who appreciate the great work we do for them at fair prices.

    I also don't know where you get off attacking me because I simply responded to someone who ended up going out and paying $500 for the work somewhere else anyways. So clearly I'm not out of line with some other places. Why don't you worry about your own car and life and don't worry about me or my customers.
    2011 Phantom Black S4 Prestige Titanium Pkg., Sport Diff., Alu Kreuz, Milltek Non-resonated exhaust with oval tips, AWE Carbon Fiber intake, Stage 1 GIAC, Black powder coated Titanium Pkg wheels

  8. #48
    Senior Member Three Rings hotleadsingergu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4Phantom View Post
    I hope you never come here either because clearly you think peoples time is worthless and that we are here to do you favors. You want to buy your own parts? Put them on your own car. Try that at a restaurant "Hey I brought my own steak and I want you to cook it because it was only $20 in the store and you want $40 for it". And our business is doing just fine thank you. We are number one in 5 star reviews online in our city and we have a lot of happy customers who appreciate the great work we do for them at fair prices.

    I also don't know where you get off attacking me because I simply responded to someone who ended up going out and paying $500 for the work somewhere else anyways. So clearly I'm not out of line with some other places. Why don't you worry about your own car and life and don't worry about me or my customers.
    Ya, your terrible analogy doesn't work. This isn't like a restaurant, it's like a metalworker. If you want a metalworker to make you an art piece and he says "it'll be $500", then when you bring him your own metal for him to do the work he should never say "Now it'll be $550".

    I'm not saying you're out of line on your pricing...I'm saying your method of actually **ADDING** cost to the work if someone brings you their own parts is completely insane. Nobody said your time is worthless...but your time doesn't somehow become more valuable when you have to do less work (ordering of parts). That's shady business, not trying to keep your business afloat.

    Please, explain this to me: Why is it that you deserve more money for the same work when someone actually brings you their own parts for the car? Tell me how your time becomes more valuable, in that situation.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Three Rings hotleadsingergu's Avatar
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    BTW: You could have even said "We give a discount to customers when they buy the parts through us". That would have made sense, would have been good business, and would show you care about your customers. Instead, you said, basically "If they bring their own parts it means we're making less money, so we squeeze a bit more out of them by boosting up our labor prices".

    Do you see the difference between those 2? If you went to a shop and they told you they were doing that, do you even **REMOTELY** think you'd be happy with it and go back there?

  10. #50
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    I really hope nobody on this forum ever goes to your shop, and honestly I hope your business drops to the point that you realize how shitty you're being with your customers. This whole "we need to make money" nonsense is bad business. You're charging extra when someone brings their own parts because you're making less money off of it? What a way to lose customers.
    I hope you're joking. This is pathetic.

  11. #51
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    Please, explain this to me: Why is it that you deserve more money for the same work when someone actually brings you their own parts for the car? Tell me how your time becomes more valuable, in that situation.
    Well, for one, he can charge more because you have brown hair if he really wants to, its called capitalism - and he doesn't have to service your car. If you had any modicum of sense, you would understand this is extraordinarily common in many service industries. When work is slow, you take jobs that aren't as profitable to stay busy, and when you're busy, you charge a premium because it needs to be worth it.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with offering people a discount on labor because they also bought the parts from you. Not only does the shop make money on the parts, but they also have control over them. It is going to be a bigger hassle for the shop when you show up with the wrong parts, or something happens with the parts down the road and you come back to complain. There are a plethora of legitimate reasons that a shop can decide to vary the rates like this, and if doing so means they lose you as a customer, I'm sure that is just another notch in the plus column, not a downside.

  12. #52
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    BTW: You could have even said "We give a discount to customers when they buy the parts through us". That would have made sense, would have been good business, and would show you care about your customers. Instead, you said, basically "If they bring their own parts it means we're making less money, so we squeeze a bit more out of them by boosting up our labor prices".

    Do you see the difference between those 2? If you went to a shop and they told you they were doing that, do you even **REMOTELY** think you'd be happy with it and go back there?
    No, that is exactly the same thing. If you're too dense to understand that, then you probably love things like "Buy 1 suit, get 6 free" and "introductory pricing." You can call it a discount, or you can call it a surcharge, the net result is exactly the same. The shop is perfectly entitled to charge different rates to people who bring their own parts and has plenty of reasons to choose to do so.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Three Rings hotleadsingergu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFo View Post
    No, that is exactly the same thing. If you're too dense to understand that, then you probably love things like "Buy 1 suit, get 6 free" and "introductory pricing." You can call it a discount, or you can call it a surcharge, the net result is exactly the same. The shop is perfectly entitled to charge different rates to people who bring their own parts and has plenty of reasons to choose to do so.
    Kk thanks for your input You've now changed my entire perspective on business, in the process crushing the thoughts and ideas I've set up over many years of doing business consulting for some of the largest companies on Earth. I'm glad you were here to show me the err of my ways!! It has done much to help cement my appreciation for you on this forum. On that note, I don't care that you just go around bashing people and generally being unhelpful all the time while getting into fights with every random member of the forum...I still like you

    Mindset is infinitely more important than end result. I couldn't care less about what deals happen, it's the overall cost and reasoning that matter. What we're talking about here isn't his ability to charge more when people bring their own parts...it's his reasoning behind it and the attitude that forwards on to his customers.

    Again, I ask you: How happy do you think your customers would be if they brought in their own parts and you told them that your labor costs would be higher because of it? I'm assuming you don't say that to their face, but you just alter the price on the invoice...and anytime a business is hiding or neglecting to tell something to their customer, it's because they know the customer wouldn't like it if they didn't.

  14. #54
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    Kk thanks for your input You've now changed my entire perspective on business, in the process crushing the thoughts and ideas I've set up over many years of doing business consulting for some of the largest companies on Earth. I'm glad you were here to show me the err of my ways!! It has done much to help cement my appreciation for you on this forum. On that note, I don't care that you just go around bashing people and generally being unhelpful all the time while getting into fights with every random member of the forum...I still like you

    Mindset is infinitely more important than end result. I couldn't care less about what deals happen, it's the overall cost and reasoning that matter. What we're talking about here isn't his ability to charge more when people bring their own parts...it's his reasoning behind it and the attitude that forwards on to his customers.

    Again, I ask you: How happy do you think your customers would be if they brought in their own parts and you told them that your labor costs would be higher because of it? I'm assuming you don't say that to their face, but you just alter the price on the invoice...and anytime a business is hiding or neglecting to tell something to their customer, it's because they know the customer wouldn't like it if they didn't.

  15. #55
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    Kk thanks for your input You've now changed my entire perspective on business, in the process crushing the thoughts and ideas I've set up over many years of doing business consulting for some of the largest companies on Earth. I'm glad you were here to show me the err of my ways!! It has done much to help cement my appreciation for you on this forum. On that note, I don't care that you just go around bashing people and generally being unhelpful all the time while getting into fights with every random member of the forum...I still like you

    Mindset is infinitely more important than end result. I couldn't care less about what deals happen, it's the overall cost and reasoning that matter. What we're talking about here isn't his ability to charge more when people bring their own parts...it's his reasoning behind it and the attitude that forwards on to his customers.

    Again, I ask you: How happy do you think your customers would be if they brought in their own parts and you told them that your labor costs would be higher because of it? I'm assuming you don't say that to their face, but you just alter the price on the invoice...and anytime a business is hiding or neglecting to tell something to their customer, it's because they know the customer wouldn't like it if they didn't.
    You're splitting hairs with the way I worded what I was saying when you knew exactly what I was talking about. And I do not hide or neglect to tell anyone what their price is BEFORE we do the work. I literally say "If you're going to bring your own parts I charge a half hour extra and there is no warranty on the parts only the labor". My invoices reflect what I discuss with the customer ahead of time. My customers understand because I am upfront with them. If you are dealing with a place that changes the prices after they are already agreed on then I suggest people go elsewhere.
    2011 Phantom Black S4 Prestige Titanium Pkg., Sport Diff., Alu Kreuz, Milltek Non-resonated exhaust with oval tips, AWE Carbon Fiber intake, Stage 1 GIAC, Black powder coated Titanium Pkg wheels

  16. #56
    Senior Member Three Rings hotleadsingergu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4Phantom View Post
    You're splitting hairs with the way I worded what I was saying when you knew exactly what I was talking about. And I do not hide or neglect to tell anyone what their price is BEFORE we do the work. I literally say "If you're going to bring your own parts I charge a half hour extra and there is no warranty on the parts only the labor". My invoices reflect what I discuss with the customer ahead of time. My customers understand because I am upfront with them. If you are dealing with a place that changes the prices after they are already agreed on then I suggest people go elsewhere.
    Then I get what you're saying and apologize for any rudeness. It definitely came off like you just added additional work to the invoice, like some mechanics do.

  17. #57
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFo View Post
    Well, for one, he can charge more because you have brown hair if he really wants to, its called capitalism - and he doesn't have to service your car. If you had any modicum of sense, you would understand this is extraordinarily common in many service industries. When work is slow, you take jobs that aren't as profitable to stay busy, and when you're busy, you charge a premium because it needs to be worth it.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with offering people a discount on labor because they also bought the parts from you. Not only does the shop make money on the parts, but they also have control over them. It is going to be a bigger hassle for the shop when you show up with the wrong parts, or something happens with the parts down the road and you come back to complain. There are a plethora of legitimate reasons that a shop can decide to vary the rates like this, and if doing so means they lose you as a customer, I'm sure that is just another notch in the plus column, not a downside.
    Thank you. Wrong parts is the big problem. I can't have a car on the lift with all of the brakes removed only to find out the parts the customer brought me are incorrect. Because now I have a car on the lift and we have to wait for the customer to go get new parts at the store or order them online and I have a lift tied up while we wait. Or we can put all the old stuff back on and have wasted a few hours of time that I'm not charging the customer for. I had a guy do this to me this morning with X5 brakes, I told him you need pads, rotors and a sensor. He brought me pads and rotors without a sensor. It didn't hold us up because he went and got it immediately but this is the main problem with this.
    2011 Phantom Black S4 Prestige Titanium Pkg., Sport Diff., Alu Kreuz, Milltek Non-resonated exhaust with oval tips, AWE Carbon Fiber intake, Stage 1 GIAC, Black powder coated Titanium Pkg wheels

  18. #58
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    BTW: You could have even said "We give a discount to customers when they buy the parts through us". That would have made sense, would have been good business, and would show you care about your customers. Instead, you said, basically "If they bring their own parts it means we're making less money, so we squeeze a bit more out of them by boosting up our labor prices".

    Do you see the difference between those 2? If you went to a shop and they told you they were doing that, do you even **REMOTELY** think you'd be happy with it and go back there?
    I understand what you are saying but a business owner is entitled to make a profit and run the business as s/he sees fit. Customers are entitled to judge how the business is run with their dollars. I think what he is trying to say is that his business model assumes a certain margin on parts. When they use "outside" parts, they do not receive that margin and make it up another way. My indy shop does install "outside" parts but they handle that by not extending a warranty on the fix/work. If I own a business, I want to use quality, reliable parts, so I vet the parts used. I would not use my time to vet those qualities in every "outside" part brought in by a customer.
    2007 A4 3.2L quattro in Deep Sea Blue Pearl Effect with beige interior; RS4 rear sway bar; basic VAGCOM mods; tan WeatherTech floor liners.

  19. #59
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotleadsingergu View Post
    Then I get what you're saying and apologize for any rudeness. It definitely came off like you just added additional work to the invoice, like some mechanics do.
    I appreciate and accept your apology. Where we are located there are tons of shops and if I was crooked like some of them are there is plenty of competition people could leave us for. But our customers really do appreciate that we don't up-sell bullshit services they don't need and that we are honest and upfront with everything. Obviously sometimes we misdiagnose things or it was more that needed to be done than we initially thought and we do our best to keep additional costs down such as offering parts at our cost if we can and eating some labor time
    2011 Phantom Black S4 Prestige Titanium Pkg., Sport Diff., Alu Kreuz, Milltek Non-resonated exhaust with oval tips, AWE Carbon Fiber intake, Stage 1 GIAC, Black powder coated Titanium Pkg wheels

  20. #60
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboy17 View Post
    I understand what you are saying but a business owner is entitled to make a profit and run the business as s/he sees fit. Customers are entitled to judge how the business is run with their dollars. I think what he is trying to say is that his business model assumes a certain margin on parts. When they use "outside" parts, they do not receive that margin and make it up another way. My indy shop does install "outside" parts but they handle that by not extending a warranty on the fix/work. If I own a business, I want to use quality, reliable parts, so I vet the parts used. I would not use my time to vet those qualities in every "outside" part brought in by a customer.
    Part quality is a big part of the problems when people bring stuff. Perfect example. Had a Range Rover that needed a fuel pump. Gave the guy a price and he said "oh I can get it cheaper on Amazon". So told him no problem, you get it and we put it in for the 4 hours of labor. If something goes wrong with it you're going to have to pay me again to replace it. He buys a shit pump and 4 months later the thing literally falls apart as the wire on the arm was crap. So he saved $100 by buying the pump on Amazon but ended up paying me an additional $420 in labor because I couldn't warranty a part I didn't provide
    2011 Phantom Black S4 Prestige Titanium Pkg., Sport Diff., Alu Kreuz, Milltek Non-resonated exhaust with oval tips, AWE Carbon Fiber intake, Stage 1 GIAC, Black powder coated Titanium Pkg wheels

  21. #61
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFo View Post
    Well, for one, he can charge more because you have brown hair if he really wants to, its called capitalism - and he doesn't have to service your car. If you had any modicum of sense, you would understand this is extraordinarily common in many service industries. When work is slow, you take jobs that aren't as profitable to stay busy, and when you're busy, you charge a premium because it needs to be worth it.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with offering people a discount on labor because they also bought the parts from you. Not only does the shop make money on the parts, but they also have control over them. It is going to be a bigger hassle for the shop when you show up with the wrong parts, or something happens with the parts down the road and you come back to complain. There are a plethora of legitimate reasons that a shop can decide to vary the rates like this, and if doing so means they lose you as a customer, I'm sure that is just another notch in the plus column, not a downside.
    Interesting points made here and I can see both sides of the argument. Similar to bringing your own bottle of wine into a restaurant, typically they charge a "Corking Fee" for the trouble. Flip side is the net net the cost of labor per hour should be static. The shop is still making money ion labor and maintaining a constant schedule. (versus no work at all)
    2014 Audi S4 Monsoon Gray, APR Stage 2, APR Intake, APR Intercooler, OZ Alleggeratas, Pilot Sport Cup 2, Stoptech BBK, 034 Rear Sway bar, Carbotech XP10 / XP8 pads

  22. #62
    Established Member Two Rings
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    For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure I just got charged their book time X their actual hourly rate, which is posted right on the desk. This shop is great in the sense that they are fine with me bringing my own parts, except when they know there are shoddy replacements out there, it's difficult to find the correct part, or they only feel comfortable with their parts. For example, they made me use their parts for a timing belt job on my B5 S4, but I've brought it my own wheel bearings for replacement.

    Also, what if you are bringing in parts for an upgrade, like you want a stage 2 clutch? I understand if you get an oil change and they notice something wrong with your car, but I called them up to do the pad/rotor replacement, so i don't understand why any shop would refuse a scenario like that.

  23. #63
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by db12 View Post
    Flip side is the net net the cost of labor per hour should be static.
    The point is, as has been addressed ad naseum in this thread, they can charge whatever they like. There is absolutely nothing deceptive or unethical about charging one labor rate under certain circumstances and a different rate under other circumstances. Heck, they could even charge a different rate for every mechanic in their shop if they wanted, and many industries charge for their services in this manner.

    So long as there is no bait and switch, complaining about this is just that, complaining. There is no basis other than you think your perception of the shops value is more accurate than theirs is. If you don't like it, go to the next shop and try again.

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