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  1. #1
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Best situation for bigger dual pulley sizes (drag vs highway)

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    OK obviously I would love to get into 10s for the quarter mile but since the drag strip is more of an entertainment thing, I would rather have a car that's better in more real life situations like highway pulls and such.

    From what I have read iats seem to be a much bigger issue at the dragstrip vs highway pulls, so would a bigger pulley be better for highway while a little smaller would be better for the strip. It just seems like doing a pull from start all the way through 4th is obviously going to have heat issues but it might be more manageable during real life situations.

    Just wanted to get peoples thoughts.
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  2. #2
    Established Member Three Rings
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    This is a good thread for those still on the fence on which DP setup to go with.

    I'm running a 194mm crank and 57mm sc, roughly 3.4 ratio. This setup as compared to my previous 180/57 combo is night and day. If I said it was like going from stage 1 to stage 2, that would be an understatement. The low end is massive compared to stage 2 or even stage 2+ with the 180mm. I still take my car to the track and set goals to go lower, but since my track time represents only less than 2% of the time I spend in my car, I am willing to give up a couple tenths on the quarter mile for the extra torque I get the other 98% of the time.

    With the Fluidampr option, anyone on the fence has the option to go big, then swap out rings if they choose to later at a very low cost as you could probably sell the ring close to the purchase price.

    Thats my 2 cents on this. Don't be afraid to go bigger if you know you're not trying to set records, or even hit the track at all. The extra torque down low vs peak HP gain is well worth the trade off in my opinion. How many people actually see 7200+ rpm on a daily basis?

  3. #3
    Established Member Three Rings KnewJack's Avatar
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    Around town DP is the cats pajamas. Makes the car way more enjoyable. For sustained highway pulls a bigger ratio offers diminished returns due to heat. For short bursts I'm sure a high ratio is fun, the 179mm is a great all around setup. This is the 3.10 ratio of 57mm upper 179mm lower. Haven't seen any high ratio 1/4 mile times that outperform the 3.10 ratio.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by KnewJack View Post
    Around town DP is the cats pajamas. Makes the car way more enjoyable. For sustained highway pulls a bigger ratio offers diminished returns due to heat. For short bursts I'm sure a high ratio is fun, the 179mm is a great all around setup. This is the 3.10 ratio of 57mm upper 179mm lower. Haven't seen any high ratio 1/4 mile times that outperform the 3.10 ratio.
    This is where I am stuck. Something like a 3.4 ratio would most definitely create too much heat but even with a sufficient cooling system? I'm talking core, reservoir, and pump like an AMS kit. I am debating upgrading my 179 crank to a 189 with the cts pulley and I hear alot of mixed opinions

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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnewJack View Post
    Around town DP is the cats pajamas. Makes the car way more enjoyable. For sustained highway pulls a bigger ratio offers diminished returns due to heat. For short bursts I'm sure a high ratio is fun, the 179mm is a great all around setup. This is the 3.10 ratio of 57mm upper 179mm lower. Haven't seen any high ratio 1/4 mile times that outperform the 3.10 ratio.
    Agree very much. If you do back to back pulls or sustained higher rpm driving ala canyon runs or lap days you will get extremely high iats as well. When stationary they will onky get so high. There is no airflow bit no boost either. Lets say the csr will heat soak to 55c when stationary but hit peak iat of 64c under wot at redline with grat cooling and upwards of 85c with stock cooling. Without cooling you lose out on top end power
    2013 Audi S5 DSG
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  6. #6
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
    Agree very much. If you do back to back pulls or sustained higher rpm driving ala canyon runs or lap days you will get extremely high iats as well. When stationary they will onky get so high. There is no airflow bit no boost either. Lets say the csr will heat soak to 55c when stationary but hit peak iat of 64c under wot at redline with grat cooling and upwards of 85c with stock cooling. Without cooling you lose out on top end power
    I've hot lapped my 194mm with APR hx only at the track. When I'm back at the staging lane IATS are back down to 41C every run. This was in 59C weather. Peak IAT on every run was 62C max. Daily driving in traffic, highest I've seen stationary is 51C, then it quickly drops to the 30s when I start moving again.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Cooling upgrade is doing well for you then. Mine is similar. Before cooling it was 20c higher peaks. Most tuners pull timing in the 70c to 75c range so these hx are really helping a ton for more power. Technically you could even run slower with dual pulley if the iats get high to trigger lower timing maps and on only stage 2 it doesnt
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntsantos View Post
    I've hot lapped my 194mm with APR hx only at the track. When I'm back at the staging lane IATS are back down to 41C every run. This was in 59C weather. Peak IAT on every run was 62C max. Daily driving in traffic, highest I've seen stationary is 51C, then it quickly drops to the 30s when I start moving again.
    For clarification, you were running the 194 with a supercharger pulley too or just the crank pulley? What supercharger pulley? At the track were you typically high up in the RPM bad near redline or more mid range? Just trying to get a sense of how hard you are pushing the supercharger and related cooling.

    I too would rather have the low end power as that's where I need it the most but I need to be mindful of the fact that I autocross and I don't want to hurt anything or heat soak so badly that I am actually slower.


    Shawn

  9. #9
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurotic View Post
    For clarification, you were running the 194 with a supercharger pulley too or just the crank pulley? What supercharger pulley? At the track were you typically high up in the RPM bad near redline or more mid range? Just trying to get a sense of how hard you are pushing the supercharger and related cooling.

    I too would rather have the low end power as that's where I need it the most but I need to be mindful of the fact that I autocross and I don't want to hurt anything or heat soak so badly that I am actually slower.


    Shawn
    194/57. However, I have an A7 with only 6400 rpm redline.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntsantos View Post
    I've hot lapped my 194mm with APR hx only at the track. When I'm back at the staging lane IATS are back down to 41C every run. This was in 59C weather. Peak IAT on every run was 62C max. Daily driving in traffic, highest I've seen stationary is 51C, then it quickly drops to the 30s when I start moving again.
    59c track temp not air temp? air temp over 100F? just curious as the IAT's look really good.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Cool thread. I am looking at all of this through the eyes of a Road Course driver. I wonder what crank pulley I need for street/road course, to go with my 57mm snout pulley? I don't know, without logging, what my IAT's are for the 20 min of track time we get. I was thinking that I could get away with a 183 (GIAC's largest crank pulley for the S2+ file) because I will always have air flowing past the upgraded HX? I am not sure and right now, I don't see too many Road Course members posting their setups?
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  12. #12
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmoe View Post
    59c track temp not air temp? air temp over 100F? just curious as the IAT's look really good.
    Sorry track temp at 59F not C, my bad.

  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR7D1 View Post
    Cool thread. I am looking at all of this through the eyes of a Road Course driver. I wonder what crank pulley I need for street/road course, to go with my 57mm snout pulley? I don't know, without logging, what my IAT's are for the 20 min of track time we get. I was thinking that I could get away with a 183 (GIAC's largest crank pulley for the S2+ file) because I will always have air flowing past the upgraded HX? I am not sure and right now, I don't see too many Road Course members posting their setups?
    Same. I'm more curious about the optimal setup for street/road course/canyons. It's amazing how many people are taking these cars to the drag strip! Cool stuff! Just not for me... in this car.

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings tars9's Avatar
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    I just installed the 187 pulley from APR to run with 57 CTS pulley. I use the car as a daily and so far, I've been loving it. Think I'm getting a bit of belt slip and the tune is still working itself out. But overall, it's been solid. Big increase down low. Haven't logged IATs yet, but haven't noticed major issues either. I have the PLM heat exchanger which is okay.


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  15. #15
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Great thread, real life performance is as you say, more important for most of us.

    I have yet to find any 60-130 times with these dual pulley cars, that for me is a good real-performing measurement in my opinion.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by tars9 View Post
    I just installed the 187 pulley from APR to run with 57 CTS pulley. I use the car as a daily and so far, I've been loving it. Think I'm getting a bit of belt slip and the tune is still working itself out. But overall, it's been solid. Big increase down low. Haven't logged IATs yet, but haven't noticed major issues either. I have the PLM heat exchanger which is okay.


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    where did you get it done: hoffman estates audi or GRD? I'm waiting for dual pulley file for Q5 but I'm seriously thinking about fluidampr 179 and cobra HE - the Q5 takes lots of trips to florida and the 187 and that heat has me a little worried. Offtopic have you ever complained to P3 about their useless air temp reading on the p3 gauge? I have for over a year and they say they'll have a new option to fix it but as the story goes with auto tuning, its coming....
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  17. #17
    Established Member Three Rings
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    I flashed to my oem file a couple days ago in preparation for a trip to the dealership tomorrow. Out of curiosity, I hooked up my old Chipwerke to see what it would feel like with the oem file + 3.4 pulley ratio (194mm/57mm). What a torque monster! The CW is such a beautiful thing.

    This is definitely a good setup for anyone that wants a good all around setup without spending over $1K on a tune. Or if you're not sure which tune to go with. Just get whatever pulleys you want and slap a CW on. If you decide on a dedicated file later, you can either stack the CW (if needed) or sell it.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Four Rings yjypm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tars9 View Post
    I just installed the 187 pulley from APR to run with 57 CTS pulley. I use the car as a daily and so far, I've been loving it. Think I'm getting a bit of belt slip and the tune is still working itself out. But overall, it's been solid. Big increase down low. Haven't logged IATs yet, but haven't noticed major issues either. I have the PLM heat exchanger which is okay.


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    You are running the new apr 187mm pulley with EPL tune?
    What was your previous setup?
    I'm running jhm 179mm crank pulley right now and debating if I should get apr's 187mm pulley since it's the cheapest dampened oversized crank pulley
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings deucescorner's Avatar
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    I'm currently running on Stage 2 AWE/GIAC with the AWE heat exchanger and I'm on the fence on whether to go with the 179mm JHM pulley or the 187mm APR pulley. I'd like to pair either of these pullers with the GIAC DP file they just released, not sure about the compatibility with the APR pulley since it's 187 and GIAC recommends 179-184mm for their DP tune. No drag racing for me just normal cruising and occasional spirited driving.


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  20. #20
    Established Member Four Rings JD S4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deucescorner View Post
    I'm currently running on Stage 2 AWE/GIAC with the AWE heat exchanger and I'm on the fence on whether to go with the 179mm JHM pulley or the 187mm APR pulley. I'd like to pair either of these pullers with the GIAC DP file they just released, not sure about the compatibility with the APR pulley since it's 187 and GIAC recommends 179-184mm for their DP tune. No drag racing for me just normal cruising and occasional spirited driving.


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    You'll be fine with either.. You'll get more torque from the 187 but more heat.. The 179 is the jack of all trades pulley but won't have as much down low grunt.. Your call. I think it comes down to how many back to backs you run. If you're usually a "1 and done" type - go 187 and you might bleed a little boost on the 187..
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    I just ordered a 184 pulley from Kustom Imports. I figured this was the safest bet and all around performance enhancement without having to spend a crap load for cooling.

    I was also wary of over spinning the SC if my Revs ever exceeded the 7,300 RPM Redline. Plus Stage 2 is almost unusable around town, at some point there's a limit to how much power you can use on the streets.... wait did I just say that?

  22. #22
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Chris@EPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjypm View Post
    You are running the new apr 187mm pulley with EPL tune?
    What was your previous setup?
    I'm running jhm 179mm crank pulley right now and debating if I should get apr's 187mm pulley since it's the cheapest dampened oversized crank pulley
    That pulley is not dampened at all. It just bolts to the OEM pulley, so you would have to install your old OEM pulley and then install it.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Four Rings yjypm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@EPL View Post
    That pulley is not dampened at all. It just bolts to the OEM pulley, so you would have to install your old OEM pulley and then install it.
    I thought the oem pulley is dampened?
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  24. #24
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Chris@EPL's Avatar
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    The OEM pulley has an elastic rubber ring that the 2 pieces of metal attach to. The rubber is not really dampening and they are still failing. The Fluidampr are more money, but the Fluidampr OEM sized pulley has nothing that can fail and comes with a lifetime warranty. The Overdrive section of the pulley goes over this dampened OEM sized pulley to be the 179, 183, 187, 189mm, etc size.

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  25. #25
    Established Member Two Rings
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    What about something like this, variable ratio SC: http://www.torotrak.com/products-par...ucts/v-charge/

  26. #26
    Senior Member Four Rings riceboy22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@EPL View Post
    The OEM pulley has an elastic rubber ring that the 2 pieces of metal attach to. The rubber is not really dampening and they are still failing. The Fluidampr are more money, but the Fluidampr OEM sized pulley has nothing that can fail and comes with a lifetime warranty. The Overdrive section of the pulley goes over this dampened OEM sized pulley to be the 179, 183, 187, 189mm, etc size.
    I actually purchased a Fluidampr, but just to clarify, the rubber ring and metal mass is the OEM harmonic balancer. It is dampened. And the accessories remain dampened I believe even with the APR bolt-on. That being said, since it's clearly considered a common point of failure like you mentioned, the Fluidampr seems like a good insurance policy that may even have some fringe benefits.
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  27. #27
    Senior Member Three Rings ModItNow's Avatar
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    FYI for us 6MT guys. Ive heard of people having chatter with aftermarket flywheels and I can report zero chatter with mine which I believe is due to the fluidampr. Seems like a solid choice all around.


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