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  1. #761
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    May 15 2017
    AZ Member #
    399499
    Location
    Central TX

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    Quote Originally Posted by one_sk View Post
    Hello guys,

    I've finally got my UC kit installed three days ago (it got delivered to me by preorder 3 months after the ROW release, good job Moscow dealers). The car runs fine and the difference from the v4 dual pulley file is staggering. My car has KI 186 pulley, headers, AMS IC with separated loops and I've logged the hell out of it - everything seems fine, from the oil separator to spark plugs and DSG.

    I haven't had time yet to properly measure it with Racelogic due to bad weather, but I've managed to get some logs. Here they are. IATs seem under control, air mass shows healthy increase over plain dual pulley. But dyno wise car shows VERY substantial improvement, and that's after it was seen running 11.6s few weeks before going UC.

    The culprit is, I've managed to visit a dyno today. In fact, two dynos - one inertial, one braked. Inertial one measured 477 hp 595 nm. Braked one measured 468 hp 587 nm. That's RON 98 fuel in 12 C weather, boost season. Here's the plot:

    I'm at loss here. Car seems to run fine, why does it measure this low, yet two dynos are consistent on this result? I would appreciate any feedback on this matter.

    Edit: RON 98 / 93 file everywhere.
    To add to what Mike said, dynos are best used as a tool to measure change (delta) and not absolute values. So it would be best to measure a before the UC and after to give you a better idea. Though also like Mike said, a trap speed will tell you a real world change.

  2. #762
    Active Member Two Rings one_sk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 22 2014
    AZ Member #
    257412
    My Garage
    2010 S4
    Location
    Minsk, Belarus

    Quote Originally Posted by Loe View Post
    how do you like your Racelogic (o/t I know). I've been looking/aching to purchase a vbox.
    Mine is a VBox Sport. Awesome tool for track driving and learning from your mistakes. For drag racing purpose, with my staging habits the ETs differ by ~0.02s compared to a time slip. 60ft and trap speeds vary heavier though. I prefer to measure rolling values like 60-130 to estimate improvement in power.

    All in all, a valuable tool. For me, the VBox Sport run in "background mode" with logs parsed via vboxtools.com at home is the most convenient way to run. Other people prefer Performance Box for its display, though (be aware that my notions of accuracy apply to vboxtools.com only).

    Quote Originally Posted by Loe View Post
    Logs look great too! exactly where other APR UC pump files are at, some are stronger though, but with a few gallons of e85 mixed in.
    Quote Originally Posted by dave1078
    To add to what Mike said, dynos are best used as a tool to measure change (delta) and not absolute values. So it would be best to measure a before the UC and after to give you a better idea. Though also like Mike said, a trap speed will tell you a real world change.
    Thanks! I just want to understand why does this dyno underestimate my power - i do not exclude the possibility of a car issue, but if its not, I want to know whether it is a fan issue, a dyno settings issue, etc. This two dynos are the only ones available to me (they are AWD capable), and given that I have plans for custom tuning 3.0Ts on dynos, it looks silly chasing 10-15hp gains when you have 30+ hp measuring error hanging in front of you. Yep, I know about importance of deltas, however my understanding is that this over/underestimations can't be linear and thus simply ignoring the absolute values is a gross oversimplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhvrdr
    There arent many dynos that do a good job of accurately simulating a street environment (airflow) as well which our cars are particularly dependent on.
    Honestly, thats my conjecture number one on this issue. I curse myself for not VCDS logging the dyno pull. Nothing prevented me from doing it, the idea have just escaped my head at the moment :/
    2010 Phantom Black S4 - APR Stage 2 + TCU, APR SC + KI 186, AMS Alpha, APR intake, AWE resonated catback, custom midpipe, Supersprint long tube headers, ST X fixed damping coilovers, AluKreuz, 034 rear subframe inserts, EC stabs and links, SPC control arms, custom made polyurethane bushings, AutoMeter boost gauge, Relak paddles and even more that I forgot :)

  3. #763
    Senior Member Four Rings Loe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 09 2015
    AZ Member #
    347794
    My Garage
    '14 Audi S5, '15 BMW 528i
    Location
    Sarasota, FL

    great feedback, I have a nice stretch of road that I log on that is flat and goes for 1/2 mile out in the boonies. It's nice to be able to get multi-gear logs with no side street entrance when the traffic is clear, figured a xbox would come in handy. The 60-130mph pull is something I wish our platform would have more interest in, its really a sign of true top-end performance as the vbox is 99.9999% accurate and also gives the incline and other data.
    -Loe- ('14 Audi S5 S-tronic )
    [10.976@124.86mph | +498 ft. D/A | 3.110 PR ]
    [11.177@124.10mph | +2250 ft. D/A | 3.371 PR ]
    Technical discussions? JOIN ME!

  4. #764
    Established Member Two Rings Mobileguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 06 2014
    AZ Member #
    271604
    My Garage
    S5 Cab, Q5, eGolf
    Location
    Kali

    Quote Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
    Put it this way... if this guy is installing 23 dual pulley kits with no upgraded cooling it's impressive as hell just what lengths the factory safeguards can go to to prevent engine destruction. Dual pulley without upgraded cooling is going to be slower than a properly running stage 2 and it risks your engine. Its not advisable and that shop is 100% wrong for recommending that to their customers. It is NOT just an issue of "Your car will just make a bit less power" without the upgraded cooling.

    Mike
    I had my dual pulley and ultra charger installed at this shop. I believe I was their first ultra charger install and back then the owner (Chris) recommended that I update my cooling as well. I passed on this at that point considering that the climate here in the bay area is pretty mild even in summer and I wasn’t planning on tracking the car. I guess a lot of their customers felt the same way… I did not record my IAT’s pre-upgrade but I am currently running about 10-15C above ambient temperature (post cooler) . The occasional WOT doesn’t really affect that too much - it goes up by ~10C but normalizes again after a few minutes. The issue that I have experienced however comes with the occasional stop during a ride (e.g. to get gas or groceries). When I re-start the car, the measured post cooler IAT’s can be as much as 35C above ambient temperature and even after quite a bit of civilized driving, they normalize at~25C above ambient temperature and never get back to the lower ones measured before. I run into an issue with this several weeks ago when ambient temperatures passed 43C which is quite unusual for this area. I returned from a 50 mile highway drive, stopped for groceries and after restarting the car, the post cooler temps were ~80C and the car started to stutter and stalled several times before I made it home. I decided to upgrade my cooling after that experience but I would be interested to learn what post-cooler temps others see that have a CPS installed. (fyi I have the P3 multi-gauge with track-pack software upgrade that displays post cooler temps in real-time)
    2015 S5 Cab DSG | APR Stage 2| Dual-pulley + Ultra | APR DL501 | Roc Euro | Milltek non-res | Snow w/m | + lots of other stuff

  5. #765
    Senior Member Four Rings Loe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 09 2015
    AZ Member #
    347794
    My Garage
    '14 Audi S5, '15 BMW 528i
    Location
    Sarasota, FL

    Sounds about normal on stock cooling, you'll likely see good results simply by just divorcing the system, doing a pump mod, and changing the fluids from G13/water to like 95% distilled water 5% water wetter or G13. The more water in the cooling loop, the better the IAT's.
    -Loe- ('14 Audi S5 S-tronic )
    [10.976@124.86mph | +498 ft. D/A | 3.110 PR ]
    [11.177@124.10mph | +2250 ft. D/A | 3.371 PR ]
    Technical discussions? JOIN ME!

  6. #766
    Established Member Three Rings FromRagsToS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 23 2017
    AZ Member #
    391410
    Location
    Idaho

    With my MercRacing HX, I see about 30f above ambient (15-16C). When I go WOT and get up in the 140f range, my temps drop back down to about 40f above ambient pretty fast, and then back down to 30f above ambient after another minute. That was for stage 2. With dual pulley I'm seeing more like 40f above ambient so far.

    My setup:

    MercRacing HX, non-divorced, G12 coolant, pump mod.
    Giac dual pulley race map on 034 SC pulley and Fluidampr 187 Crank.

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