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  1. #1
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
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    Ignition Open Circuit Faults - Sporadic, both banks

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    Im getting these pesky open circuit faults occasionally, and I can't seem to figure out the problem.

    They occur usually on cyl 1,3,4,6 and are always sporadic. Mostly on startups and revving in neutral. I am able to hit full boost and drive with no issues, misfires, or codes.

    I have the ECS coil conversion harness with ICM deletes. Plugs and harness were all new 3000-3500 miles ago.

    Tried moving conversion harness ground from back of IM to cam cover, no change.
    Tried swapping coil packs, no change.

    Just installed both new primary o2s because I had an occasional code for one of them, no change, although car seems to idle and rev up better. But open circuit codes still come back.

    I read through this thread but the symptoms just don't seem to be the same:

    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...2-0T-Coil-Swap

    I figured I would see if anyone had any input before I start diving into the ECU harness.

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant TIP -> 6MT + k04s

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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings vavJETTAw36's Avatar
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    Ignition Open Circuit Faults - Sporadic, both banks

    Check your grounds. Had the same issue.

    Quick check: place multimeter on battery. Note power. Now, keep power probe on battery but now ground off engine. What's the voltage drop? Ok move to the new ground area that you said you relocated. Touch ground on the sucker. Any voltage drops?

    My issue was ultimately the ground from Alternator to passenger side frame rail. A visual inspection is not enough.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
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    So then what did you do? Just cleaned up the contacts and good to go?

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant TIP -> 6MT + k04s

    2001.5 Santorin S4 6mt - srm k24 build [Totaled]


  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    I have the ecs coil conversion and I get "intermittent open - ignition circuit cylinder 4" repeatedly. Always cyl4, so I'm in for info. My plan was to just get some new plugs and solder them in to do away with the harnesses.

  5. #5
    Established Member Three Rings a4kamila6's Avatar
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    When I installed my icm delete kit and new coils i remember one of the icm delete connectors was not fully pressed in. Looked like it but after pressing as hard as i could i heard a little click. I had the same issues and they went away after checking that. Not saying this is your problem but worth a check

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings vavJETTAw36's Avatar
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    Yes removed the bolt that holds the eyelets on and cleaned off the corrosion with a dye grinder with an abrasive disc. You could use a wire brush too.

    Like I said, just check the voltages between everything by simply touching contacts with the ground lead and keep the positive lead on the battery. That will allow you to see a bad connection.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Smitty2A4's Avatar
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    Good timing, I was going to post something about this myself. Just started getting this code stored but only on Cyl 4. I too seem to have no negative symptoms and it isn't throwing a CEL. I figured it might just be the coilpack getting weak (they were replaced 38k ago) but I will check my grounds before I replace it.
    Looking for a good shop north of Boston, call Eurosport Performance

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    It is a tuning issue:

    http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4/threads/17687.phtml

    ESKONF engine configuration matrix needs to be changed to not test ignition circuits on start up.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings e30mclow's Avatar
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    Feel around under where the loom wires travel over the tops of the valve covers.

    I noticed when doing mine that the protective coating had worn through in some spots, and there was even exposed wire on one. I suspect that this was the cause for a sporadic misfire when I first got the car. When it would get hot, the wires would soften up and just touch the cam cover causing a short/misfire.
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  10. #10
    Registered Member Four Rings aysix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julex View Post
    It is a tuning issue:

    http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4/threads/17687.phtml

    ESKONF engine configuration matrix needs to be changed to not test ignition circuits on start up.

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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings phila_dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julex View Post
    It is a tuning issue:

    http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4/threads/17687.phtml

    ESKONF engine configuration matrix needs to be changed to not test ignition circuits on start up.
    Why would you want to do this?

    If they are functioning correctly then there should be no problem.
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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by phila_dot View Post
    Why would you want to do this?

    If they are functioning correctly then there should be no problem.
    If I remember right (it's been quite a while) Audi disabled ESKONF ignition amp check on engines with the 1.8t/2.0t/Rs6/etc coils so I'd say that the circuit check is not reliable with these - as witnessed myself and quite a few people on here, it would seem. It probably has to do with difference in resistance/impedance between discreet ignition amp (like on APB 2.7t) and all-in-one ignition coil (BEL 2.7+, 1.8t, 2.0t and so on).

    BTW, I sent you email a while ago asking if you'd be up to re-trofitting PUKANS or, even easier to do I think, hijacking KFKHFM table and use TANS instead of RL for input besides NMOT. My KFKHFM is all 1.000 so I can re-use that table.

    Let me know!

  13. #13
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
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    So I checked the voltages at the grounds like wavJETTA suggested. There was no voltage drop between the battery negative and the grounds on the engine.

    I got to the point where I could make the codes show up pretty consistently by revving the motor a little bit. I was getting them on CYL 1 and 2. Then I swapped coil pack 2 and 3 and the codes have disappeared completely since yesterday.. What could this mean? bad coils?

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant TIP -> 6MT + k04s

    2001.5 Santorin S4 6mt - srm k24 build [Totaled]


  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings Corradovolksb's Avatar
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    Ignition Open Circuit Faults - Sporadic, both banks

    If your coils where bad they would throw the fault all of the time. It seems like a resistance issue or bad connection in your harness. I will take a look at the ESKONF in your file and see if I can disable the coil diag.

    Julex
    What bit of ESKONF needs to be changed? I thought I have them all defined but I don't remember seeing coil diag as one of the options.
    If you turn off ZUE the coils wouldn't fire right?

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corradovolksb View Post
    If your coils where bad they would throw the fault all of the time. It seems like a resistance issue or bad connection in your harness. I will take a look at the ESKONF in your file and see if I can disable the coil diag.

    Julex
    What bit of ESKONF needs to be changed? I thought I have them all defined but I don't remember seeing coil diag as one of the options.
    If you turn off ZUE the coils wouldn't fire right?
    I think it was ZUE and coils will run normally. I can check later. ESKONF is used to configure engine for diagnostics purposes.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Well I've never delved into tuning my car as of yet. The late, great, daz flashed a stage 2 tune on my car, which I'd really like to preserve if possible. Is there some way to edit the tables without modifying what's already been flashed? I didn't receive the file for my tune from him, only the flash.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings vavJETTAw36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowSfaux View Post
    Well I've never delved into tuning my car as of yet. The late, great, daz flashed a stage 2 tune on my car, which I'd really like to preserve if possible. Is there some way to edit the tables without modifying what's already been flashed? I didn't receive the file for my tune from him, only the flash.
    The flash IS the tune. So yea you have a BIN file that you can keep on your laptop and flash back to if you ever need.

    Editing the tables is going to be a different story. Julex can tell you if you need a specific xdf file to edit the aforementioned properties related to coils.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings phila_dot's Avatar
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    I don't think that's right, but I honestly haven't looked into it specifically since I have never come across this on my car or any other.

    I'm pretty sure that all the ECU's in question have identical ignition drivers (except V8 has more channels) and this handles the open and short circuit diagnosis.

    Also, these ESKONF bit pairs are not interpreted the same as the others so one may be mistaken comparing them without that in mind.

    My opinion is hardware issue.
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings vavJETTAw36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phila_dot View Post
    I don't think that's right, but I honestly haven't looked into it specifically since I have never come across this on my car or any other.

    I'm pretty sure that all the ECU's in question have identical ignition drivers (except V8 has more channels) and this handles the open and short circuit diagnosis.

    Also, these ESKONF bit pairs are not interpreted the same as the others so one may be mistaken comparing them without that in mind.

    My opinion is hardware issue.
    I concur with hardware issue but I cannot speak to the motronic side of things. I feel like if it were tune related, most of us would be facing the same issue and it would be all over the installation documentation. The fact that it is not happening on all coils further supports this theory.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure its hardware. However, if the grounds are good, swapping icm deletes doesn't change anything, The only thing that seems to change anything is swapping the coils, Which just seems to delay the time it takes for the codes to come back. What would this point to? Conversion harness? Plugs? Coils?

    2001.5 Silver S4 Avant TIP -> 6MT + k04s

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  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by phila_dot View Post
    I don't think that's right, but I honestly haven't looked into it specifically since I have never come across this on my car or any other.

    I'm pretty sure that all the ECU's in question have identical ignition drivers (except V8 has more channels) and this handles the open and short circuit diagnosis.

    Also, these ESKONF bit pairs are not interpreted the same as the others so one may be mistaken comparing them without that in mind.

    My opinion is hardware issue.
    I respect that, this is what I've done in my case:

    1) 2.0t coils, I could find the exact part #, no "open circuit" phantom code ever.
    2) swapped to R8 coils (red, higher count of windings and thus impedance), codes started popping up frequently, always the 1 and 4, longest wires. Swapped coils the same, redone grounds to heads grounding, the same, ground strap to chassis like factory new, ground battery to chassis squeaky clean... run out of options especially that the code would only register during cranking when diagnosis is performed. At the time the car idles butter smooth and registers north of 600whp on 34psi+ so I think that coils and wiring is fine.
    3) Modified ESKONF and of course no more codes.
    4) Switched to RS6 coils (bolt-ons, after I found some corrosion in some coil holes I decided that properly sealed coils is the way to go), unmodified ESKONF, no more codes either.

    IMHO it is coil specific. If you get a coil that has high impedance like red R8 one then you'll probably see these codes occasionally since our hardware must be calibrated somewhat differently. Also, this pops up only sporadically and as such, it is an intermittent code that will most likely not illuminate CEL unless it happens very frequently. So in reality you might have tons of people driving around with the code and not knowing about it. Just because about 2 or 3 other people just said in this thread that they have this exact code but otherwise car works 100% good, proves that something is up with this fault code.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
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    I have the red ones, but I don't know if they're the r8 ones or the 2.0t. However, I haven't had and codes since the start of this thread after switching 2 and 3, and I drove about 150 miles yesterday, weird..

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  23. #23
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    My coils are the black oe 2.0 ones. I'll hopefully dive into this soon, I'll post my fix in this thread once it's sorted.

    But I should add, I do get a cel that comes back within a day or two after clearing.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings Smitty2A4's Avatar
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    Wanted to post an update of what happened in my case. My car did start to show some symptoms. I noticed the car would sometimes have a slight stumble during normal driving (was fine under full throttle) then once while on the highway it starting noticeably misfiring and flashing the CEL. I first replaced the coilpack on cylinder 4 but the code still remained. I switched the ICMs around and the car was ok for a few days, then it started idling rough, I checked codes and the open circuit had moved to cylinder 1. This told me the wiring harness/grounds were not the issue and it was the ICM itself so I replaced both of them and all is well.

    For those of you that still run ICMs try switching them and see if the code changes to a different cylinder. My car still ran fine 95% of the time, but would act up once and a while. I am assuming the ICM was on its way to completely failing. Obviously for those with the 2.0 Coil conversion this is not a factor but it may help those with the stock setup that are chasing an open circuit code.
    Looking for a good shop north of Boston, call Eurosport Performance

  25. #25
    Senior Member Four Rings CJ_'s Avatar
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    Good catch. Mine is acting almost the exact same way, except mine only happens when the motor is cold and a occasional stumble under light throttle. But I'm also on the 2.0 coil conversion
    Yesterday morning, went to fire it up and it was misfiring really bad, let it warm up for ~30-60 sec and the idle smoothed out and it ran perfect.

    Checked codes and got:
    -Open ignition circuit cyl 2
    -Open ignition circuit cyl 5
    -Random/multiple misfire
    -Misfire cyl 4

    So looks like my cold misfire isn't related to the open circuit faults? Was going to swap coils/change spark plugs today to see if that changes anything.

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  26. #26
    Registered Member Four Rings
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    ground each pin #2 on coil side connector to a unique ground on the cyl head. Tie the harness side yel/brn wires to pin 4 coil side.
    IG: @PB5S4

  27. #27
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Update: I swapped all my 2.0 coils for rs6 coils after reading julex's explanation, and I'm going on three weeks without any open circuit codes. It should also be noted however that when I initially swapped over to the 2.0 coils, I went for about 4 or 5 months without any codes. Should my cel return, I'll update.

    Sorry I'm not the op, but stated my similar issue and said I'd update when I got around to fixing my issue.

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings Shhmaudi's Avatar
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    So on the ignition coil pin 2 and 4 are grounds. Pin 2 is circuit diagnosis and pin 4 to close the circuit. The engine harness has 2 grounds always the same coil (yellow/brown) so you join both grounds to pin 2 and 4. volia thats how you fix circuit code issue

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  29. #29
    Registered Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shhmaudi View Post
    So on the ignition coil pin 2 and 4 are grounds. Pin 2 is circuit diagnosis and pin 4 to close the circuit. The engine harness has 2 grounds always the same coil (yellow/brown) so you join both grounds to pin 2 and 4. volia thats how you fix circuit code issue

    incorrect. bridge harness side ground to pin 4 if need be, all pin 2's connector side go to their own grounding lug on the head somewhere. No issues this way
    IG: @PB5S4

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings derek2079's Avatar
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    I'm having the same issue. misfire on cylinder 4 as well as p1364.

    I have the red coil packs.

    a mechanic tested my compression at idle and it was in between 80 to 90 psi.

    for someone technically challenged like myself what would everyone recommend?

  31. #31
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Are your two grounds from the coils ran separately?

    the correct way:
    Pin 2 = to original harness ground OR new ground to firewall behind coolant reservoir
    Pin 4 = intake manifold

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings derek2079's Avatar
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    I don't know but I'm going to send this thread link to a mechanic and see if they can look and see. I do know that the 2.0 could were swapped but the codes kept returning. mainly the misfire on 4. once or twice on 2 and sometimes multiple random. motor is at 171k

    I read the entire thread I still can't tell if swapping could around is supposed to fix it or if upgrading to rs6 could would.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowSfaux View Post
    Update: I swapped all my 2.0 coils for rs6 coils after reading julex's explanation, and I'm going on three weeks without any open circuit codes. It should also be noted however that when I initially swapped over to the 2.0 coils, I went for about 4 or 5 months without any codes. Should my cel return, I'll update.

    Sorry I'm not the op, but stated my similar issue and said I'd update when I got around to fixing my issue.
    Code came back after 8ish months since I swapped to rs6 coils. Will be cutting and soldering the ecs harnesses at my earliest convenience. Very dissatisfied with the ecs conversion. One of the coil adapter plates got badly discolored from heat, the other plate is unaffected, and the coil harnesses are made incorrectly.

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