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  1. #41
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon K. View Post


    The surging had continued to increase and become more annoying. Swapping out the plugs to the old ones reduced it dramatically but it is still there. I may try disconnecting the battery to reset the adaptation to see if that fixes it before going back to the old coils.

    The old plugs have seen better days and should probably be replaced, but they work better than the new ones...


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    Installed new stock plugs gaped down slightly per APR dealer and it makes no difference. I will let my local APR dealer figure out what the problem is.


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  2. #42
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    At my APR dealer having an oil change. From the test drive, they said my car is doing the exact same surging that two other cars started after they did the stage 2 on their customers B8s. They said they have a couple hunches that they are going to try and log. One of their hunches is that it could be the torque converter trying to decide between locking and unlocking. They believe that if it is a problem inside the tune itself, that they doubt customer logs will help and APR will need to get a symptomatic car on their dyno. I will let everybody know (including APR) if they are able to find something.

    I also purchased a Vac Com cable and will do some logs for APR. They had asked me to do this when I originally reported the problem to them. Wish me luck!


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  3. #43
    Senior Member Two Rings TurboNate's Avatar
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    El Cajon/CA/San Diego

    I've been having this same exact issue myself. I'm on stage 1 APR and at 107k miles. I recently changed out my fuel filter, fuel rail pressure sensor and HPFP, and that issue has gone away for the most part. It's been 2 days and haven't experienced it yet


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    2009 A4 Premium+ Quattro
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  4. #44
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    The APR dealer said they are almost positive it is in the tune. The logs checked out & everything is working as the ecu has requested.

    They said they are going to request APR to send them a test pipe tune to try and they will code out the 02 sensor(s). If this eliminates the surging, they will let APR know. He said it will likely take time for APR to work out the issue if this is the case.


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  5. #45
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    APR has spoken to my dealer but has asked me to still do some logs... I will see if I can start those this weekend so I can get those out to them ASAP and go back to my APR dealer for the test pipe tune in a couple weeks, assuming that APR has not come out with a solution by then.


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  6. #46
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    Lexus RX400h... a nice appliance
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    Need help with logging!!!!

    The procedure seems simple enough, but the names & data blocks APR has asked for don't match up with my 2011 A4 Avant 2.0T.

    What they asked for:
    ROUND 1 LOGGING:
    Use for Boost and Fueling
    Diagnosis

    1001-1Engine Speed
    2014-3Misfire Sum
    3031-1Lambda, Current Value
    4054-3Accelerator Pedal Position
    5054-4Throttle Plate Angle
    6101-3Injection Timing (Median)
    7*103-1*Current Fuel Pressure*
    8114-4N75 Duty Cycle
    9115-3Boost Pressure (Specified)
    10115-4Boost Pressure (Actual)
    11230-1Rail Pressure Ė Specified
    12230-2Rail Pressure Ė Actual


    What I have found.


    Most of the ones I have selected are probably correct, but I could not find anything close to N75 Duty Cycle or any reference to the waist gate. The Lambda one I found may or may not be correct and the fuel pressure blocks don't specify that it's rail pressure.

    I could wait till Monday and ask APR, but it would be at least 2 weeks before I am likely to have the time to do more logging.


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  7. #47
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    I did not get time to do the logging and I had to take my car in for a wheel bearing replacement. Put the car in stock mode for the shop. A CEL popped up... I deleted the codes & dropped it off. When I got it back, the CEL came up again so I deleted them again. I switched it back to the 93 octane program.

    It has now been a few hundred miles, and the surging has not returned. Time will tell, but It would appear this time around the adaptation is not causing surging.


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  8. #48
    Senior Member Three Rings Fastbke170's Avatar
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    2003 Silver GSXR1000, Mazda 3S 2006
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    Hey did you install the filter and Turbo intake hose? I had the same issue due to the torque map and the weather it seems. Tuner sent me a map sans torque and it went away. I didn't like it of course as it felt softer. I've since flashed back to original stage 3 (uk). It's ok for now with warmer weather it seems.

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    2012 A4 Moonlight Blue Metallic : Premium +: Factory 18" GMBH 5 Spoke Wheels: AFE Pro Filter: ECS Turbo Hose : TopGear UK HFC : TopGear UK 3"Stainless Steel Turbo Back Full Dual Exhaust: TopGear UK Powergate 3 Stage 3 Tune:GFB DV+:Eurocode FMIC :3 Spoke S4 Black Steering Wheel w/DSG Paddle shifter : S-Tronic Shifter Knob w/Black Boot : LED White Interior: LED Red Footwell Conversion : Hoen White XEON Match Fog Bulbs :R8 Coil Packs: Puddle Projection Lamps with Audi Rings

  9. #49
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    Yep, they are in. So far the surging has not returned. I have only had the filter and intake tube installed for about 300 mile though.

    My surging stop a while back after I switched back and forth from the tuned to stock. Not sure why it fixed it the last time I did it. I had done that at least 3 times before.

    Buy the way, good luck with getting the K04. It had crossed my mind offering to buy it, but I think my wife would have shot me.


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  10. #50
    Senior Member Three Rings Fastbke170's Avatar
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    2003 Silver GSXR1000, Mazda 3S 2006
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    I'm in same situation, believe me. upgrades are no longer discussed. All actions are covertly implemented. 🙄. Seller hasn't answered back, one guy may have beaten me to the deal.

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    2012 A4 Moonlight Blue Metallic : Premium +: Factory 18" GMBH 5 Spoke Wheels: AFE Pro Filter: ECS Turbo Hose : TopGear UK HFC : TopGear UK 3"Stainless Steel Turbo Back Full Dual Exhaust: TopGear UK Powergate 3 Stage 3 Tune:GFB DV+:Eurocode FMIC :3 Spoke S4 Black Steering Wheel w/DSG Paddle shifter : S-Tronic Shifter Knob w/Black Boot : LED White Interior: LED Red Footwell Conversion : Hoen White XEON Match Fog Bulbs :R8 Coil Packs: Puddle Projection Lamps with Audi Rings

  11. #51
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    I have the surging mostly in 2nd gear at 3000 rpm. 3rd seems smooth. I've never tried switching to 91 or stock tune, always been on 93 Stage 2 since the original flash.

    I'm installing a TR8 this weekend so I'll let you know of that helps. Another 2 weeks and I'll go from NGK 7s with 0.032 gap to NGK 8 spark plugs with 0.028 gap. I'll also post here if that helps.

  12. #52
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    I have the surging mostly in 2nd gear at 3000 rpm. 3rd seems smooth. I've never tried switching to 91 or stock tune, always been on 93 Stage 2 since the original flash.

    I'm installing a TR8 this weekend so I'll let you know of that helps. Another 2 weeks and I'll go from NGK 7s with 0.032 gap to NGK 8 spark plugs with 0.028 gap. I'll also post here if that helps.
    According to APR, if you have the oddball surging many of us get after going stage 2, it is highly unlikely to be effected by plugs. This is assuming you have good plugs gaped correctly and are a correct set for the car. I tried the plug swap anyway and it did virtually nothing to the surging. My bet is that yours is something different than ours because you yours is mostly confined to second gear. Mine was related to rpm & torque load so it happened in most gears.


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  13. #53
    Established Member Two Rings briansubsist's Avatar
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    2012 Volvo XC60 T6 AWD
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    Late to the party on this thread but good to see I'm not alone. APR stg 2 and it only happens in second gear with medium acceleration. The power delivery goes up and down until it eventually shoots up. It is fairly annoying because I either have to drive slowly or WOT in second gear to not feel it.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    It seems to go away if you switch tunes but then it will come back after a couple hundred miles with the adaptation.

    I still get this at 3000 rpm in 2nd gear even after switching plugs, adding bigger intercooler, etc.

    Doesn't seem healthy for the engine and I wish APR could take a closer look at this.

  15. #55
    Established Member Two Rings briansubsist's Avatar
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    That is annoying. I guess I'll switch to stock and back to see what happens for a bit. You are right the it doesn't seem especially healthy for the engine. I'll probably just have to learn to live with it unless there is some ecu update revision in the future.

  16. #56
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon K. View Post
    APR had asked me to log data for them to analyze. Does anybody in the Vancouver Washington area have a VCDS or similar? They have requested 12 fields be lodged. I have an ECS handheld scanner, but that is not adequate for this.


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    switch tune....
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  17. #57
    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    I have it on my eurodyne stage 1 and stage 2 tunes as well. Between 3000-3500, like as if someone is peddling a bicycle to get the engine to go. Haven't been able to find anything out of the norm with it either, and the car seems to think its totally normally.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Three Rings Party_Marty's Avatar
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    Guys, I think its our turbos (k03's) being maxed out and spooling up so quickly, gives us more power which we want, but not the spike...

    Everybody that goes k04 has this issue resolved right away becuase of the size difference. I wish there wants that surge but I'm thinking its either tune w/ a surge or no tune for the k03
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  19. #59
    Veteran Member Four Rings Alex1188's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Party_Marty View Post
    Guys, I think its our turbos (k03's) being maxed out and spooling up so quickly, gives us more power which we want, but not the spike...

    Everybody that goes k04 has this issue resolved right away becuase of the size difference. I wish there wants that surge but I'm thinking its either tune w/ a surge or no tune for the k03
    You partially right, the turbo spools really quick and spikes. Then the PID cycle tries to even out. I've actually been working on all this in Eurodyne for my F23 and have seemed to get it a little better. Part of the other problem is the load maps catch up to them selves and cause a surge. Unfortunately it's hard to have the best of both worlds with performance and smoothest drivability

  20. #60
    Senior Member Three Rings IHave2Turbos's Avatar
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    Potential Solution/Thing to Check:

    After I went HPA K04+IM i started to have this issue. Very bad surging/hesitation when rolling on the throttle in the 2000-3000 range. Like everyone in this thread I tried swapping coils, plugs, gaps etc.

    My Issue was that the silicone coupler on the turbo outlet had partially popped out from the hose clamp and I was bleeding boost into the atmosphere pre-intercooler.

    My theory is that during the partial throttle condition, the leak was enough that there was not enough airflow to pressurize the intake tract (i have a larger volume FMIC) and that made the problem really palpable.

    My car ran seemingly fine if I mashed the throttle, but hesitated/surged really badly in the low RPM range.

    Just a potential solution to this issue, had nothing to do with plugs, coils, gaps or software in my case.
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  21. #61
    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IHave2Turbos View Post
    Potential Solution/Thing to Check:

    After I went HPA K04+IM i started to have this issue. Very bad surging/hesitation when rolling on the throttle in the 2000-3000 range. Like everyone in this thread I tried swapping coils, plugs, gaps etc.

    My Issue was that the silicone coupler on the turbo outlet had partially popped out from the hose clamp and I was bleeding boost into the atmosphere pre-intercooler.

    My theory is that during the partial throttle condition, the leak was enough that there was not enough airflow to pressurize the intake tract (i have a larger volume FMIC) and that made the problem really palpable.

    My car ran seemingly fine if I mashed the throttle, but hesitated/surged really badly in the low RPM range.

    Just a potential solution to this issue, had nothing to do with plugs, coils, gaps or software in my case.
    Funny that you say this, I got a 5 ply silicone hose kit to upgrade the existing rubber charge pipes and the issue went away completely afterwards. I wonder if its possible the OEM clamps and cheap rubber hoses were expanding so much during high boost that they just were blowing air past the ends.

  22. #62
    Established Member Three Rings AUDacIouS4's Avatar
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  23. #63
    Established Member Two Rings Perry01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon K. View Post
    At my APR dealer, they said they have a couple hunches that they are going to try and log. One of their hunches is that it could be the torque converter trying to decide between locking and unlocking.
    I have a similar problem between 2000-3000 RPM. While accelerating (4th gear low RPM) for the purpose of data logging, Iíve noticed the RPMís increase and a surging affect. It feels like what APRís hunch was with the torque converter because it mostly occurs at WOT under heavy load but after reading through this thread, Iím not so sure.

    In the screen shot below you see the RPMís rise in the 2-3k range and the throttle valve closes a bit there too.



    The fuel pressure pretty much stays with requested:



    Actual boost doesnít fluctuate too much:



    But the N75 value does dip a bit at 2500 RPM:



    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1188 View Post
    It has to do with the phase of where the Intake manifold flaps open and close. The change in intake air velocity is what your feeling. The flapper actuator is vacuum driven and isn't very accurate. The reason your not noticing it on stock tuning is the way the map is designed from the factory is a lot more linear than all the aftermarket tuning is. Boost ramp is completely different. Also I believe company's like APR don't touch that part of the map, hence why they don't offer a flapper less tune for our cars.
    This has me wondering if it may be the problem because my MAF values are all over the place during the surge:




    Iím running an Integrated Engineering Stage 2 tune. This didnít happen at Stage 1. There is only 25k miles on the odometer with stock plugs and coils. I purchased a Wagner FMIC on Black Friday and will replace the coils and plugs when I install the intercooler.

    Has anyone determined the cause or more importantly, a cure?
    2013 Q5 Primium Plus
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  24. #64
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    It looks like your tune is intestinally closing your throttle. This is usually a safety protocol because something the ECU is seeing is too far out of the safety range.

    Most of the APR folks are expecting it due to some sort of tune/adaptation issue. Mine had about a 25% likelihood of not coming back whenever the adaptation was reset.


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  25. #65
    Established Member Two Rings Perry01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon K. View Post
    Most of the APR folks are expecting it due to some sort of tune/adaptation issue. Mine had about a 25% likelihood of not coming back whenever the adaptation was reset.
    Adaptation reset? Is this done by disconnecting the battery? Or will flashing back to stock or Stage 1 reset?
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  26. #66
    Established Member Two Rings Jezza's Avatar
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    Birmingham/Alabama/South East

    I believe leaving the battery disconnected for 20 minutes will cause the ecu to reset its adaptations. Switching maps/tunes will do it as well.

  27. #67
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Unfortunately, Iím having the same issue. Hopefully thereís a fix for it from APR soon


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  28. #68
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezza View Post
    I believe leaving the battery disconnected for 20 minutes will cause the ecu to reset its adaptations. Switching maps/tunes will do it as well.
    For the motor adaptation, As far as I can tell it only takes a minute or two with the battery disconnected. But 20 minutes to be safe sounds good to me as well.

    I read on AZ that using a VagCom cable to ďclear codesĒ on the motor also resets the adaptation (even if there are no codes). I have not tried this yet however.


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  29. #69
    Established Member Three Rings Brandon K.'s Avatar
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    On the surging note, my HPA tune has been doing the surging as well. I initially thought it was an undiagnosed hardware issue. Resetting the adaptation reduced it significantly. I reset it again about 200 miles ago and it reduced even further. It is down to just a mild annoyance now. For most of us, the surging during high torque demand seems to be a tune/adaptation issue. I think that if you keep trying to reset it until it is gone, it will solve the problem for most of us.

    It seems this problem has been reported on just about every tune for the B8 2.0T but most of us have found that it eventually miraculously goes away when the adaptation is rest.


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