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  1. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagal View Post
    But has vw actually come up with a fix that will not affect the perfotmance of the car, inconvenience the owner and only pollute what was promised when we bought the car? Also, if there is a fix how would the resale value be factured in? I asked this before but didn't really get an answer. I'm only asking because the court settlement, articles i read, what i got in the mail and people on the forum makes it seem like it is, a done deal. But on the form about registering the car, there's an asterik and small letters after saying "if there is a fix". What happens if the owners don't agree with the fix. Then what, do we get a say? Plus, why are we treated differently than the 2.0 owners. Seems like there is no one standing up for the owners of these cars which seems really unfair. Maybe i missed something!
    I feel the same way... What if the fix drops the HP and/or TQ?? Do I now have to fill up my AdBlue tank 2x 3x 4x as often?? I've even heard talk of adding a bigger AdBlue tank (that would take up trunk space?!?!)?? As others have said on here, if there were actually going to be a fix, doesn't it make sense that it would already be made public? Or maybe they holding out to keep the extra billions in THEIR accounts for as long as possible to keep earning that interest. :)

    The separate legal council seems a little more appealing at this point... but who knows.
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  2. #1122
    Active Member Two Rings stinkyhelmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atisvt99 View Post
    I feel the same way... What if the fix drops the HP and/or TQ??
    Current settlement would compensate owners an additional $500 if performance and/or fuel efficiency degrades past a specified amount

    Quote Originally Posted by atisvt99 View Post
    The separate legal council seems a little more appealing at this point... but who knows.
    Has anyone explored this option? If yes, what could we collectively do?

  3. #1123
    Established Member Two Rings Qumag's Avatar
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    Just got an email from Bosch Settlement Administrator😮👍🏻

  4. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyhelmet View Post
    Current settlement would compensate owners an additional $500 if performance and/or fuel efficiency degrades past a specified amount



    Has anyone explored this option? If yes, what could we collectively do?
    i recall reading somewhere on the settlement site that if you opt to be included as part of the settlement, no further recourse could be taken.... i can't find the text that stated that.

  5. #1125
    Senior Member Three Rings 13allroad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martian421 View Post
    i recall reading somewhere on the settlement site that if you opt to be included as part of the settlement, no further recourse could be taken.... i can't find the text that stated that.
    That is correct


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  6. #1126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qumag View Post
    Just got an email from Bosch Settlement Administrator
    Thanks! I was wondering how this would work as there hasn't been much posted about this aspect of the settlement. Looks like it will be a seamless process.

  7. #1127
    Established Member Two Rings dfost24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianLurker View Post
    Thanks! I was wondering how this would work as there hasn't been much posted about this aspect of the settlement. Looks like it will be a seamless process.
    When I called and spoke with a settlement rep she confirmed the Bosch is separate but will automatically process in conjunction with the VW registration. Sounded like here shouldn't be a second layer involved, which this email also seemed to indicate.

  8. #1128
    Veteran Member Four Rings zcd2.7t's Avatar
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    As part of the Diesel scandal settlement, VW agreed to plead guilty on 3 felony counts. That actually happened today.

    This doesn't change anything with regards to the settlement for now, but the judge did postpone sentencing to give himself more time to consider options...

    http://www.motortrend.com/news/vw-pl...ed-dieselgate/
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  9. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagal View Post
    But has vw actually come up with a fix that will not affect the perfotmance of the car, inconvenience the owner and only pollute what was promised when we bought the car? Also, if there is a fix how would the resale value be factured in? I asked this before but didn't really get an answer. I'm only asking because the court settlement, articles i read, what i got in the mail and people on the forum makes it seem like it is, a done deal. But on the form about registering the car, there's an asterik and small letters after saying "if there is a fix". What happens if the owners don't agree with the fix. Then what, do we get a say? Plus, why are we treated differently than the 2.0 owners. Seems like there is no one standing up for the owners of these cars which seems really unfair. Maybe i missed something!
    The asterisk is due to the fact the EPA & CARB have not approved a Gen 2 3.0 fix yet. If they do by the fall deadlines outlined in the documents your resale shouldn't be affected and any amount it would be should be more than covered by the compensation amount. This repair has to meet performance requirements, HP/Tq within 5% and no more than 3mpg reduction in EPA calculated fuel economy. Your actual mileage may drop more as you're probably getting better than EPA now due to the non-compliant tuning. They can extend the deadline by 30 days 3 times but have to pay an additional 500 each time.

    If they don't meet the deadline, they can create a reduced emissions fix that will not be compliant but will meet the emissions agreed on in the settlement. At this point the settlement is similar to the Gen 1s, you can take the buyback or take the reduced emissions fix if approved. The compensation for the reduced fix is much higher than if they approve a compliant fix in time.

    If you don't agree with the true approved fix, take the money and get rid of the vehicle. In order to qualify, this fix cannot noticeably effect the cars performance so you shouldn't be substantially displeased with it, at least not beyond the amount of money you'll also get.

    If that deadline is not met and there is an approved reduction fix that you do not agree with, take the buyback. There's always the option if you don't agree with either one to exclude yourself and pursue your own litigation or do nothing.

    The EPA & CARB did recently approve a fix for Gen 3 2.0s, I'd guess there's a decent possibility one will be approved for the Gen 2 3.0s.

    Being a 2.0 owner as well, I actually feel the 3.0 settlement is much better, why do you feel it's not? There's some added wording to prohibit stripping vehicles, but also added penalties for VW to encourage them to speed things up.

  10. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by atisvt99 View Post
    I feel the same way... What if the fix drops the HP and/or TQ?? Do I now have to fill up my AdBlue tank 2x 3x 4x as often?? I've even heard talk of adding a bigger AdBlue tank (that would take up trunk space?!?!)?? As others have said on here, if there were actually going to be a fix, doesn't it make sense that it would already be made public? Or maybe they holding out to keep the extra billions in THEIR accounts for as long as possible to keep earning that interest. :)

    The separate legal council seems a little more appealing at this point... but who knows.
    The fix that needs to be approved this year cannot change hp/tq more than 5%. It takes awhile for EPA and CARB to certify the fix, they only just approved the Gen 3 2.0 fix in January. CARB and EPA rejected 2.0 fixes in the past for having significant hardware modifications, not sure if a bigger DEF tank would qualify, but if it cut into your cargo space I am guessing they would reject that part. I don't know that using a little extra DEF would really sour the whole deal for me. The stuff is dirt cheap, last stuff I bought was $1.60/gal. Even 2.5s are down under 10 at times. Truck stops pump pricing is often in the 2s. The cost would be negligible compared to the repair payment IMO, I could see it being a hassle for some though. If it's a huge deal, you can get rid of the DEF or take the money and get rid of the vehicle.

    Coming up with a fix will actually save them billions.

  11. #1131
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    Can anyone please list in very brief bullet points what is going on with this lawsuit for Gen-2 owners?

    Sorry I tried reading with through the past couple pages but there were a lot of off topic posts and speculation posts throwing me off.

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    I guess what bothers me the most is the time. They've known about this for years, but still nothing. I love my car, but i do not like the fact, at least to me it seems, that polluting the air more and helping people get sicker is not as important as worrying how much anything will cost VW. People's health isn't important, the consumers aren't important only, but saving a company who lied and created fraud is more important. There must be a piece of the puzzle I must be missing here?

  13. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagal View Post
    I guess what bothers me the most is the time. They've known about this for years, but still nothing. I love my car, but i do not like the fact, at least to me it seems, that polluting the air more and helping people get sicker is not as important as worrying how much anything will cost VW. People's health isn't important, the consumers aren't important only, but saving a company who lied and created fraud is more important. There must be a piece of the puzzle I must be missing here?
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  14. #1134
    Veteran Member Four Rings EYE4SPEED's Avatar
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    Will Malone void reimbursement?


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  15. #1135
    Veteran Member Four Rings zcd2.7t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYE4SPEED View Post
    Will Malone void reimbursement?...
    Sorry if I'm being dense, but what's "Malone"?
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  16. #1136
    Established Member Two Rings DanMontgomery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zcd2.7t View Post
    Sorry if I'm being dense, but what's "Malone"?
    He is talking about a Malone Tune.
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  17. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYE4SPEED View Post
    Will Malone void reimbursement?


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    I don't believe so, it did not matter on the 2.0s and while the 3.0 settlement places additional restrictions on what an "eligible" vehicle actually is, none of it mentions anything about those modifications.

    Put everything back to stock before your repair and you should be fine.

  18. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagal View Post
    I guess what bothers me the most is the time. They've known about this for years, but still nothing. I love my car, but i do not like the fact, at least to me it seems, that polluting the air more and helping people get sicker is not as important as worrying how much anything will cost VW. People's health isn't important, the consumers aren't important only, but saving a company who lied and created fraud is more important. There must be a piece of the puzzle I must be missing here?
    Are you referring to the amount of time it's been public knowledge? Or the amount of time it was known internally? If the former, I don't feel it's being drawn out substantially but I don't feel it's lightning fast either. On the legal side it seems to be moving fairly quick in comparison to many other legal proceedings. On the technical side, it takes time to create something that will satisfy all parties involved. It takes time to test that. Some may feel they are taking their time to save themselves money, others may feel they are making sure things don't go off half cocked. Considering the scope of this and the amount of government oversight involved, this process seems fairly rapid. There is no imminent risk to the public if these vehicles remain on the road, unlike other true safety related issues.

    The deception is a problem and they need to be held accountable. How far individuals want to march with their pitchfork depends on their own way of seeing things I suppose. The way it's written in articles paints a dramatic picture, the numbers and science alone make it less interesting. Theres a saying in statistics that percentage change means little without data, 40 times 0 is still 0. If you go to the actual WVU study for the 2.0, you will see the stats for the EA189 engine tests. This is the engine with the infamous "up to 40 times" quote you see everywhere. It's been awhile since I did the actual math, but I recall 20 times the limit being closer to the average tested. What this calculated out to was NOx emissions per unit traveled, similar to the newest cleanest on road heavy truck engine. That was taking a few assumptions though since cars are rated in g/km and heavy truck engines are rated in g/kw-hr. I used an average duty cycle for on road engines and average speed of long haul trucks.

    That's not making an excuse for them to cheat, just putting them numbers into perspective somewhat. Those are also based on the absolute worst numbers which are the EA189 2.0 engine, not the 3.0 I assume you have, which is much cleaner. I have not seen numbers for the 3.0 and do not know of any but would like to see them if anyone has them.

    I can see why it would be tempting to cheat the system for the US given the fact that Europe's NOx standards for the EA189 were 350% higher than the US. As someone who deals with these engines on and off road daily, I have to admit a part of me rooted for VW. Not for their lying, but for the proof of concept showing the gains in relaxing NOx emissions standards. I'm not against the clean engines, there's a lot of things I like about them, but there's many things I hate. The amount of time and money lost to these systems is very high. The system on a passenger vehicle is extremely low maintenance compared to these others and the costs of a failure are much lower as well. When a NOx sensor fails on a car it's inconvenient for the owner, but it's likely not costing them thousands every hour like other equipment.

    We certainly needed cleaner engines, but at what point does the law of diminishing returns apply? How low do these numbers really need to go? NOx is "linked" to health hazards, but in that sense it is a local pollutant. Lower NOx standards are more important for human health in LA than the middle of the plains. How significant are these issues and on what scale? At what point do we start tripping over dollars to pick up dimes? NOx and SOx are two emission components in acid rain that have been substantially reduced. This is likely beneficial overall, but it's not without consequences either. The reduction in acid rain has negatively effected some aspects of crop production. We now have sulfur deficiencies and have to apply sulfur to some crops. Algae blooms are more prevalent with less acid rain now as well, not necessarily a bad thing but it means we have to address that issue differently now as well.

    I wish I had all the right answers, VW lied and that is a problem. Personally I'm not in the camp that feels driving one of these vehicles is a significant hazard to public health.

  19. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnelldiesel1 View Post
    Can anyone please list in very brief bullet points what is going on with this lawsuit for Gen-2 owners?

    Sorry I tried reading with through the past couple pages but there were a lot of off topic posts and speculation posts throwing me off.
    The court documents lay everything out pretty well with limited legal speak, but take a bit to weed through.

    I'll try to be as brief as possible with my understanding, while still keeping the details.

    This is the timeline of events for eligible owners/lessees only. This only applies to gen 2.

    If you wish to object or exclude yourself, you must do so by April 14, 2017.

    The deadlines for VW to submit modification and for row EPA to approve it are based on the EPA test group the vehicle is in. There are three groups, 2.1 needs an approved fix by Nov 8, 2017, 2.2 by Oct 23, 2017 and 2 by Dec 20, 2017.

    VW can file to extend the deadline for each group by 30 days, but must pay an additional $500 to each owner each time. They can do this up to three times(90 days/$1,500 max).

    If no fix is approved at that time then they have to offer the buyback and the process becomes similar to Gen 1 and the 2.0s where owners can choose to wait for a reduced emissions fix with larger compensation, or choose a buyback.

    The deadline to file a claim is December 31, 2019.

  20. #1140
    Veteran Member Four Rings EYE4SPEED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durallymax View Post
    I don't believe so, it did not matter on the 2.0s and while the 3.0 settlement places additional restrictions on what an "eligible" vehicle actually is, none of it mentions anything about those modifications.

    Put everything back to stock before your repair and you should be fine.
    What if you don't have a dpf anymore?

    Throw it in the trunk when you turn it in?

    It is terrible to have to wait on mods until at least Memorial Day.


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  21. #1141
    Veteran Member Four Rings zcd2.7t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYE4SPEED View Post
    What if you don't have a dpf anymore?...
    Quote Originally Posted by durallymax View Post
    ...Put everything back to stock before your repair and you should be fine.
    ^^^this^^^
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  22. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYE4SPEED View Post
    What if you don't have a dpf anymore?

    Throw it in the trunk when you turn it in?

    It is terrible to have to wait on mods until at least Memorial Day.


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    Bolt it back on when the time comes. I wouldn't want to/didn't want to wait. Pretty easy to get that one in and out. Although this all assumes you're either doing it yourself or don't mind the added cost of paying to do it twice.

    If by "turning it in" you are referring to a buyback, it may not be an issue without it but I certainly would not throw it away. Made than mistake with my 2.0, but fortunately it hasn't been an issue with those. The added verbiage in the 3.0 settlement may cause some issues, time will tell if it gets to that point.

  23. #1143
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    So in othet words, us with 2014 q5s have to wait until December to see if vw comes up with a fix. Boy if i lied, the punishment would come a lot sooner. That's what gets me plus still polluting. So everyone has decided vw's net worth is more important than the people they lied to and took advantage of and the health of others? No matter what group your in, they just blatenlu lied to us and i could care less if vw eere to go out of business. That usually happens when a place has a bad reputation.

  24. #1144
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    Who decided VWs net worth was worth more than the owners and/or public? You can't pull a fix out of thin air and if public health is your main concern, scrapping all of these vehicles versus fixing them would likely have a larger negative environmental impact. What are the NOx emissions of a gen 2 3.0? If you feel it's a menace to society you have every right to sell it, or park it but you won't be eligible for any compensation.

    They got caught lying, yes it's bad but they are not the only ones. The fight over diesels NOx emissions in the US between the EPA and manufacturers has been ongoing for years. It's caused more lawsuits than any other issue related to engines alone. Cat, Cummins, Detroit, Mack, etc all got in trouble for installing NOx defeat devices for the 98 regulations. Navistar was the only one that didn't, however they now have serious lawsuits over their maxxforce engine and their persistence on avoiding DEF to meet the 2010 regs. Class action suits against the engines reliability and lawsuits from their investors due to the CEO failing to inform them that their EGR plan was failing. They even sued the EPA, then influenced lawsuits against Cummins for not having a way to monitor DEF quality. Navistars last ditch effort was to just pay the $1,800 penalty per engine for being out of compliance, but that came to an end quickly as well. In the end, they bought an SCR/DEF system from Cummins. Their engines marketshare has a lot of ground to make up as they have dropped under 30% of sales. VW now purchased some of Navistar. Caterpillar decided to simply exit the on road engine market, but face their own lawsuits now over the ACERT engine issues, a technology developed to combat NOx.

    In the past decade or two, many European engines have made their way into US equipment, but required EGR to meet the lower NOx standards. What was a good engine in Europe turned into a headache here. The maxxforce is one, overseas its a successful MAN engine (also VW), but in the US Navistar added a huge EGR system. Mercedes, DAF, Duetz and Volvo diesels all had some of the same issues as well. Many have gotten them sorted out, but it does make you wonder if the gain is worth it.
    Last edited by durallymax; 03-18-2017 at 10:44 AM.

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    I am quite sure my net worth is no where near that of VW and I don't care, I'm thinking of myself not them. I'm thinking of the large amount of money I shelled out to buy the "perfect car" for me, but did not get. So, I could careless about vw's net worth or what happens to any other large corporation. Plus, I didn't say to scrap them all. I can't see why the cars they can't fix yet be placed somewhere (there's a lot of vacant land around) till they come up with one. Once there is a fix then they can sell them as used cars or excuse me, as pre-owned cars.
    When I drove my brand new car out of the lot already knowing it depreciated in value plus waiting 4 months to get, I expected to drive out the exact car I was told I was getting. I had just gotten rid of my favorite car mostly because it was a gas guzzler and a polluter. Yes, I am one of those "environmentalists" that does care about the environment so, there are 2 good reasons to get rid of my old car and buy a new Audi. I bought it because I thought it was the perfect car for me, clean diesel and better mileage (I did look at the hybrid too, but the salesperson said the diesel was better in all those areas) .
    I also don't care about the other car or truck manufacturers who lied, I care about that I was lied to by VW. Sorry they got caught and used as an example, but it happens and it's their problem not mine.
    I also have come to realize that some people on this forum don't seem to care that much about the polluting aspect of it. Well i do, I'm admitting i am an"environmentalist" which makes it even harder for me.
    There is an article out about how VW's extra emittance of air pollution will not only cause more deaths in Germany, but since their air pollution is spreading into other countries, the death rate in those places will also go up.
    My daughter, who has a degree in environmental science, mentioned the "tragedy of the common" where one person doesn't think what they do will affect others since the others will abide by the law. She said a good example is China. There are certain cars that can drive one day and others the next day (I lived in Denver where there was a water shortage so there there were 0, X and diamond days to water and the the water situation got better). But in China, (we are not even close to what is going on there, and doubt they we ever well because of our high standards, yet with the new administration you never know) but there are people who will dismiss this and drive any day they wish not caring abut the environment only about themselves. It's kind of like here where people are giving VW more time to come to come up with a fix so we keep driving these cars and polluting more. Unfortunately, it doesn't bother everyone. Sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention. Just siting another side of this whole thing.

  26. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by durallymax View Post
    The court documents lay everything out pretty well with limited legal speak, but take a bit to weed through.

    I'll try to be as brief as possible with my understanding, while still keeping the details.

    This is the timeline of events for eligible owners/lessees only. This only applies to gen 2.

    If you wish to object or exclude yourself, you must do so by April 14, 2017.

    The deadlines for VW to submit modification and for row EPA to approve it are based on the EPA test group the vehicle is in. There are three groups, 2.1 needs an approved fix by Nov 8, 2017, 2.2 by Oct 23, 2017 and 2 by Dec 20, 2017.

    VW can file to extend the deadline for each group by 30 days, but must pay an additional $500 to each owner each time. They can do this up to three times(90 days/$1,500 max).

    If no fix is approved at that time then they have to offer the buyback and the process becomes similar to Gen 1 and the 2.0s where owners can choose to wait for a reduced emissions fix with larger compensation, or choose a buyback.

    The deadline to file a claim is December 31, 2019.
    Thank you very much, that was very helpful.


    - How does the compensation work for Gen 2.2 owners?

    From what I understand VW is going to pay owners half of the compensation now, and the other half of the compensation when/*if the car is "fixed".

    - What about the settlement with Bosch?

    I will look over/visit the settlement website, but it really helps to have an understanding of what I'll be reading before I start digging through that stuff.

  27. #1147
    Veteran Member Four Rings s4buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagal View Post
    I am quite sure my net worth is no where near that of VW and I don't care, I'm thinking of myself not them. I'm thinking of the large amount of money I shelled out to buy the "perfect car" for me, but did not get. So, I could careless about vw's net worth or what happens to any other large corporation. Plus, I didn't say to scrap them all. I can't see why the cars they can't fix yet be placed somewhere (there's a lot of vacant land around) till they come up with one. Once there is a fix then they can sell them as used cars or excuse me, as pre-owned cars.
    When I drove my brand new car out of the lot already knowing it depreciated in value plus waiting 4 months to get, I expected to drive out the exact car I was told I was getting. I had just gotten rid of my favorite car mostly because it was a gas guzzler and a polluter. Yes, I am one of those "environmentalists" that does care about the environment so, there are 2 good reasons to get rid of my old car and buy a new Audi. I bought it because I thought it was the perfect car for me, clean diesel and better mileage (I did look at the hybrid too, but the salesperson said the diesel was better in all those areas) .
    I also don't care about the other car or truck manufacturers who lied, I care about that I was lied to by VW. Sorry they got caught and used as an example, but it happens and it's their problem not mine.
    I also have come to realize that some people on this forum don't seem to care that much about the polluting aspect of it. Well i do, I'm admitting i am an"environmentalist" which makes it even harder for me.
    There is an article out about how VW's extra emittance of air pollution will not only cause more deaths in Germany, but since their air pollution is spreading into other countries, the death rate in those places will also go up.
    My daughter, who has a degree in environmental science, mentioned the "tragedy of the common" where one person doesn't think what they do will affect others since the others will abide by the law. She said a good example is China. There are certain cars that can drive one day and others the next day (I lived in Denver where there was a water shortage so there there were 0, X and diamond days to water and the the water situation got better). But in China, (we are not even close to what is going on there, and doubt they we ever well because of our high standards, yet with the new administration you never know) but there are people who will dismiss this and drive any day they wish not caring abut the environment only about themselves. It's kind of like here where people are giving VW more time to come to come up with a fix so we keep driving these cars and polluting more. Unfortunately, it doesn't bother everyone. Sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention. Just siting another side of this whole thing.

    well said.


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  28. #1148
    Active Member Two Rings stinkyhelmet's Avatar
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    EPA vs VW/AUDI TDIs

    Quote Originally Posted by seagal View Post
    I am quite sure my net worth is no where near that of VW and I don't care, I'm thinking of myself not them. I'm thinking of the large amount of money I shelled out to buy the "perfect car" for me, but did not get. So, I could careless about vw's net worth or what happens to any other large corporation. Plus, I didn't say to scrap them all. I can't see why the cars they can't fix yet be placed somewhere (there's a lot of vacant land around) till they come up with one. Once there is a fix then they can sell them as used cars or excuse me, as pre-owned cars.
    When I drove my brand new car out of the lot already knowing it depreciated in value plus waiting 4 months to get, I expected to drive out the exact car I was told I was getting. I had just gotten rid of my favorite car mostly because it was a gas guzzler and a polluter. Yes, I am one of those "environmentalists" that does care about the environment so, there are 2 good reasons to get rid of my old car and buy a new Audi. I bought it because I thought it was the perfect car for me, clean diesel and better mileage (I did look at the hybrid too, but the salesperson said the diesel was better in all those areas) .
    I also don't care about the other car or truck manufacturers who lied, I care about that I was lied to by VW. Sorry they got caught and used as an example, but it happens and it's their problem not mine.
    I also have come to realize that some people on this forum don't seem to care that much about the polluting aspect of it. Well i do, I'm admitting i am an"environmentalist" which makes it even harder for me.
    There is an article out about how VW's extra emittance of air pollution will not only cause more deaths in Germany, but since their air pollution is spreading into other countries, the death rate in those places will also go up.
    My daughter, who has a degree in environmental science, mentioned the "tragedy of the common" where one person doesn't think what they do will affect others since the others will abide by the law. She said a good example is China. There are certain cars that can drive one day and others the next day (I lived in Denver where there was a water shortage so there there were 0, X and diamond days to water and the the water situation got better). But in China, (we are not even close to what is going on there, and doubt they we ever well because of our high standards, yet with the new administration you never know) but there are people who will dismiss this and drive any day they wish not caring abut the environment only about themselves. It's kind of like here where people are giving VW more time to come to come up with a fix so we keep driving these cars and polluting more. Unfortunately, it doesn't bother everyone. Sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention. Just siting another side of this whole thing.
    I grew up in Southern California in the 80s when smog was a big problem. I recall the morning after washing the car, the smog would settle from the air overnight leaving a film of crap on the clean car. It was nasty. I still remember the many ozone action days where I was urged not to go outside and play. It's much better now thanks to the EPA and CARB. They did a lot to clean up the air quality the past 20-30 years.

    I personally don't want to live in an environment where air quality is dangerous again. If you haven't experienced this before, china is dealing with this problem now. So are India, Mexico, and other regions without strict regulations

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38545649
    Last edited by stinkyhelmet; 03-20-2017 at 06:35 AM.

  29. #1149
    Active Member One Ring
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    Thank you for the article. Great to read that China is finally doing something about i their air quality. Two things they're getting rid of to improve their air quality we are no. Twe're expanding the coal industry and also letting known cars that pollute over the limit keep driving. China is moving ahead while we're moving backwards. Just doesn't make sense to me. I use to run in Denver and when i coughed up black particulates came out of my mouth. Disgusting! Glad to know that someone else sees this issue from the environmental aspect too!

  30. #1150
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Jalopnik is doing a Q&A on Wednesday with the lead attorney for the plaintiffs at 11am ET.

    http://jalopnik.com/got-diesel-volks...lea-1793486723


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