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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings snail_power's Avatar
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    BG 109 in 4.2L S4 motor

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    I have seen a lot of threads about BG 109 being used pertaining to A4s but never for B6 / B7 S4s. Does anyone have any first hand experience in their S4 with BG109 or BG MOA in an S4?

    And before a "dont add anything to your oil its fine on its own if you use quality oil" poster comes up, thats one line of thinking, I want to hear opinions and experiences.

    thanks in advance!
    2007 Avant S-Line Titanium 6spd man (victim of rear end totaling)
    2006 S4

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings dparm's Avatar
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    Opinions? Why do we want someone's opinion on something like this? It's not a subjective matter.

    My OPINION is that any car that has seen good preventative maintenance, such as regular oil changes, has no business running shit like that. It is designed as an atom bomb/last resort for sludged up and neglected motors.
    now: 2011.5 BMW M3 sedan ZCP
    past: 2005 Audi S4 sedan, 2011 Audi S4 sedan

  3. #3
    Senior Member Three Rings zerokiller698's Avatar
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    ^ This
    05' B6 S4

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings siren's Avatar
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    Anyone use Miltec oil before? Apparently the greatest thing ever according to reviews and posts.... It's been designed to form a molecular bond as it heats up.... Used for guns, cleaning, and even as an additive to oil of any kind.
    B6

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings dparm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siren View Post
    Anyone use Miltec oil before? Apparently the greatest thing ever according to reviews and posts.... It's been designed to form a molecular bond as it heats up.... Used for guns, cleaning, and even as an additive to oil of any kind.

    It's snake oil. Look at the MSDS -- it has chlorinated hydrocarbons. Do you know what happens to chlorinated anything when it gets very hot? It creates corrosive salts. There is no chlorinated additized oil that has passed API tests. There's a reason they market it for usage at room temperature.

    There are tons of additives that are already in your oil that "form molecular bonds as they heat up" (gross oversimplification).

    There is ZERO need to add anything to your oil.
    now: 2011.5 BMW M3 sedan ZCP
    past: 2005 Audi S4 sedan, 2011 Audi S4 sedan

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings snail_power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dparm View Post
    Opinions? Why do we want someone's opinion on something like this? It's not a subjective matter.

    My OPINION is that any car that has seen good preventative maintenance, such as regular oil changes, has no business running shit like that. It is designed as an atom bomb/last resort for sludged up and neglected motors.
    Sorry, experiences preferred to opinions. Wondering if anyone has had luck with 109.
    2007 Avant S-Line Titanium 6spd man (victim of rear end totaling)
    2006 S4

  7. #7
    Senior Member Three Rings KAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snail_power View Post
    Sorry, experiences preferred to opinions. Wondering if anyone has had luck with 109.
    I wouldn't knock Dparm's input. The man knows his oils inside and out, there have been countless oil threads on here and all end up with the same conclusions. Take it from me, when someone starts explaining the science behind why you should and shouldn't do something, take it seriously and if you don't agree, research it!
    C6 A6 4.2 S-Line
    Dipped: Front Grill and rear defuser

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings snail_power's Avatar
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    Yup he's knowledgable and I respect his input. I have read tons of his posts on oil. Still wondering if anyone has put 109 through their car.
    2007 Avant S-Line Titanium 6spd man (victim of rear end totaling)
    2006 S4

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings JimmyBones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dparm View Post
    Opinions? Why do we want someone's opinion on something like this? It's not a subjective matter.

    My OPINION is that any car that has seen good preventative maintenance, such as regular oil changes, has no business running shit like that. It is designed as an atom bomb/last resort for sludged up and neglected motors.
    Dparm, are you an engineer? I ask because most of your posts sound like you know just enough theory to sound like you know something but you lack the experience from practical application to actually see any results.

    I use BG engine oil and fuel products in my car because they work. I use both the quick clean and MOA every time that do an oil change. You can see the difference when you pull the valve covers by how clean the inside of the heads look. The 44K fuel system cleaner is great too. I used it on a car that the fuel pump was starting to hum from the fuel filter being clogged around 90K miles and the noise went away. It came back a little more than 10K miles later so we threw a new fuel filter in but it was cool that the cleaner cleared up the problem for a bit. We also tested the 109 oil treatment on a B5 S4 to find it regained between 20 to 30 PSI.
    Ex-Audi Tech

    Current cars:
    2004 S4 6MT - JBones's Silver Bullet B6 S4
    2000 A6 2.7T 6MT - DD
    1991 BMW 850i 6MT - V12 project

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings dparm's Avatar
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    No, not an engineer. Just a car enthusiast. I have no personal experience with BG 109 but as I've written before, I'm quite active over at BobIsTheOilGuy and there are a wide variety of people posting with car problems and I've not seen many great success stories for these cure-all oil additives. BTW you do realize that with regular oil changes of a name brand oil you'll get a clean valve cover and valvetrain? There's no need for additives in a modern API motor oil. Those are *maybe* necessary in a severely neglected motor or a known sludger (1.8T guys, I'm looking at you).

    BG44k is a good product but it's a professional-grade one. It uses the same active ingredient as products like Red Line SI-1, Techron Concentrate, and Regane: PEA.

    My question for OP, and anyone else thinking they need all these special additives: why do you think your motor oil needs to be supplemented? What is the oil not doing? How do you know problem XYZ is caused by the oil? I get the feeling people see an advertisement or notice some in-store display and suddenly think their oil is lacking...protip: it isn't. If you read up on the strict requirement imposed by ACEA A3/B4 and VW 502/505, you'll likely reach the [correct] conclusion that you don't need or want those products.

    If the OP said "well I pulled my valve covers and there was way too much varnish and sludge, and my oil pan has a coating of sludge", then yes, I'd be inclined to recommend a different approach, such as several back-to-back short-interval changes.
    Last edited by dparm; 11-08-2013 at 10:32 PM.
    now: 2011.5 BMW M3 sedan ZCP
    past: 2005 Audi S4 sedan, 2011 Audi S4 sedan

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    BG makes good products, if your engine is "in need" of such a treatment why not give it a try. I used it once on my s4 with no ill effects, and yes I though the car ran a little better. I have read about guys (in general) using it with low compression, and some of the before and after numbers are amazing.

  12. #12
    Established Member Four Rings TarlCabot's Avatar
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    i think the consensus all points to the same thing, if you have a healthy, happy engine, you don't need any additives other than the correct viscosity of a good name-brand oil changed at proper intervals...

    on the other hand if you picked up a stray dog and the engine is sludged, poor compression, etc. and you looking at $$$ for engine replace/repair... why NOT give some of these treatments a shot to maybe get a few more miles out of the gal

    all good info, but looks like OP doesn't want science, but real live experience (its a miracle) info ;)
    2006 Audi (B7) S4 4.2L 25th Anniversary Special Edition #167, Ported IM, 034 MAF hose, SRP Racing Pedals, 245/35 ZR 19x9.5" ET 25 MRR Catalina's with 5mm Spacers on rear, (B5) Front Spring Perches, Apikol Snub Mount, 034 Trans mount, RS4 H-Sport (Hotchkis) Rear Sway, JHM 93 octane Tune, XS 2.5" 200 cell HFC D/P's. Custom 2.5" true dual Magnaflow Race C/B

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings JimmyBones's Avatar
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    It is funny that you bring up bobistheoilguy because didn't he post an article talking about how there was too much fuel contamination in the RS4s after just 5k miles.

    Now I agree that with proper oil change intervals using engine oils that meet or exceed the VW 502 standard there should be minimal to no build up. But by now some of these cars are on their four or fifth owners so they have become basketcases. That is why I would rather prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I never said the BG products are a cure all but it good assurance for owners.

    Also I don't think most people know this: Audi switched to synthetic engine oil in 2004. So all the previous engines before our S4s started life with conventional dino oil and had very long intervals of 7.5K to 10K miles. That is why Audi lost in court over the 1.8T sludge problems because the customers did follow the maintenance schedule and still had major problems.
    Ex-Audi Tech

    Current cars:
    2004 S4 6MT - JBones's Silver Bullet B6 S4
    2000 A6 2.7T 6MT - DD
    1991 BMW 850i 6MT - V12 project

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings dparm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyBones View Post
    It is funny that you bring up bobistheoilguy because didn't he post an article talking about how there was too much fuel contamination in the RS4s after just 5k miles.
    Much of the fuel-dilution discussions started on the BITOG forums, yes. A group of RS4 owners worked with the guys at Renewable Lubricants Inc. (RLI) to create a special version of their BioSyn 5w40 for the RS4 to help fight the fuel contamination. It's an excellent bio-ester oil. I ran the 0w30 in my S4 just before I sold it, and I've considered using that or the 5w40 in my M3. Their gear oils are also outstanding.

    My point remains: until you have pulled off the valve cover or oil pan and seen visible signs of problems, like sludge or excess varnish, do not start putting weird things in the crankcase "just because". Get a damn UOA and the contamination will be obvious.
    now: 2011.5 BMW M3 sedan ZCP
    past: 2005 Audi S4 sedan, 2011 Audi S4 sedan

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings JimmyBones's Avatar
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    There was an interesting article about BMWs on Redline's website. They talked about the 10W-60 engine oil that is used in the M3s and R8 GTs. Basically they said that it was too thick if the car never sees track use. I was looking for rear diff oil for all three of my cars and saw the article. By the way, I got Redline's heavy duty shookproof diff fluid for my S4 with a rear LSD and we shall see if it helps for me to stop breaking stuff. That fluid looks like nasty old peptobismul. (Probably spelled that wrong)
    Ex-Audi Tech

    Current cars:
    2004 S4 6MT - JBones's Silver Bullet B6 S4
    2000 A6 2.7T 6MT - DD
    1991 BMW 850i 6MT - V12 project

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings dparm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyBones View Post
    There was an interesting article about BMWs on Redline's website. They talked about the 10W-60 engine oil that is used in the M3s and R8 GTs. Basically they said that it was too thick if the car never sees track use. I was looking for rear diff oil for all three of my cars and saw the article. By the way, I got Redline's heavy duty shookproof diff fluid for my S4 with a rear LSD and we shall see if it helps for me to stop breaking stuff. That fluid looks like nasty old peptobismul. (Probably spelled that wrong)

    Yes, and BMW actually just released a bulletin in August that says the M cars can now use any LL-01 oil (basically the same as VW 502/505). There's speculation that it being too thick/heavy generates more heat and actually increases bearing wear.
    now: 2011.5 BMW M3 sedan ZCP
    past: 2005 Audi S4 sedan, 2011 Audi S4 sedan

  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings snail_power's Avatar
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    To answer a couple questions you guys had asked…

    I had heard about BG products from their one carbon treatment and hoped maybe some of the other products were as good. I know 50% of people (probably more) have a healthy skepticism of ALL oil additives, but I have to believe that a few of them out there might actually help an engine run smoother or free stuck rings, remove sludge… etc. Just looking to see if anyone had good experiences with these.

    I have had sludged up motors in the past that treatments seemed to help. I dont believe I have a sludge problem now, but just curious whats out there and what people have tried for their S4. Thats all.

    full disclosure, I am using M1 0-40 on 3k change intervals.
    2007 Avant S-Line Titanium 6spd man (victim of rear end totaling)
    2006 S4

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings dparm's Avatar
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    Some of those products can assist with severely-stuck rings or removing sludge, yes, but I would only use those as a last-resort.

    AutoRX and Kreen seem to be the other two "popular" ones.

    BTW you can push your change intervals to 5k on that Mobil 1, if not longer. No use changing it so early and wasting money.
    now: 2011.5 BMW M3 sedan ZCP
    past: 2005 Audi S4 sedan, 2011 Audi S4 sedan



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