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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    So it's FINALLY time to put some wheels on her. Awesome tire failure photo included.

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    So a few weeks ago, I started my car, and as I started driving I noticed that it really liked to pull to the right. Huh, odd. It came with a little vibration that I did not really notice until just the other day, when I was driving over to a friend's shop to diagnose. Tire pressures were good, and I hadn't driven off road or over anything that might have bounced me out of alignment, so I was curious. This was the culprit:



    Official diagnosis: "Car pulls to right because tire not round." For the record, this guy just works there - my friend is much less goofy
    I had already told myself that if a tire was to blame, I was going to pitch these junky Falken Ziex 912's (from the previous owner). The rears are right at 2/32", and this is one front tire down; the other front is at about 4/32". And I've got the full size spare on the car now, with a 2004 original tire on it with plenty of tread, but old as heck (and kind of greasy). So, I told myself, why on earth would I buy expensive, sticky, 18" tires for the stock, heavy wheels, when I could spend a bit more money and have something both wider and lighter? Exactly, I wouldn't!



    I had already found a few good deals here and there on wheels, so I pulled the trigger within a few hours of the diagnosis. These are TSW Interlagos, brand new in the boxes, with center caps and hub centric rings for 57.1mm. Specs are 18x8.5+32 all the way around, and they weigh about 20.6lb each. The outer lip at the top of the wheel is pretty much exactly concurrent with the edge of the fender, and the bottom of the wheel will protrude a bid from the fender. I will gain about 1.3" of track width. And look at all that caliper clearance! Anyway, TSW calls the manufacturing process "rotary forging", which essentially means that the wheel face is more or less cast, as far as I can tell, but they forge the barrel for reduced weight. Here's their short video of explanation:



    Intended tires are 255/35/18, hopefully and probably Michelin Pilot Super Sports, but might drop down to Conti ExtremeContact ($260/set cheaper on sale), or some other such. The ZE-912's weigh 27lb when new, according to Falken, while 255/35/18 Eagle F1 Assymetric weighs 24lb, PSS's 25lb, and ExtremeContacts and Ventus V12 Evo's each 23lb. So the wheel should drop 10lb or so, very far from the axis of rotation, and the tires should shed a few more, even further from that axis. I have already confirmed with TireRack - I will buy one tire, mount it to a wheel, put it on the car, and make sure it clears the fender. As long as I don't drive on it, I can return it if it doesn't fit, lose only the shipping costs, and buy a set of 245's. If it does fit okay, I'll just buy the other three and be off to the races, as they say. I am not lowered and do not really ever intend to be, and I won't mind performing a little fender roll or even a little pull, if I can find someone adept. I worry about pulling a front fender, as they tend to be flimsier than rears, but I'd love to see meatier tires in there.

    For posterity: The Falken Ziex 912's have been fair enough. They're not a bad tire, but they're also not really good. They're not overly quiet, they're not overly sticky, and they're in the middle on sidewall stiffness. They are decent coming into and out of traction, and are easy enough to modulate because you can hear them groaning when they're getting close. They don't make a huge amount of noise when they spin, either. So I can't say they've been bad, but it's time for something stellar, because this really is a stellar car, and a car can only be as good as the tires it wears.

    And finally, yes; I will be upgrading my wheel/tire/horsepower calculation a bit to provide hopefully a better prediction of improvements given by lighter wheels and tires.
    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings pecka13's Avatar
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    Do not use that Widowmaker. Go buy yourself a normal jack.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings brndll's Avatar
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    That was the first thing I thought of as well... didnt even see the wheels but was thinking, "He needs to stop using that jack or his running boards are going to pay..." No offense meant, just a word to the wise.
    If you think you have things under control... you just arent going fast enough -Mario Andretti

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings GarrettA4q's Avatar
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    I cant even look at this thread until he finds a more respectable jack. On that note I'm going to the bathroom.
    Garrett

    2009 A4 S-Line MT
    2004 A4 3.0 MT GONE!

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings AVier's Avatar
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    Yeah that jack will eat a hole in the side of car when it slips. Ask me how passenger side knows
    German Engineered Driver. German Engineered Car.
    "Yeah that light is always on..."

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings auxnbus's Avatar
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    This is just a guess....... but Squiddy probably has a proper jack.
    Looks like a test fitting in the parking lot of a wheel/tire store where he may not have had his good jack.
    Only a guess.
    2015 BMW i3 REx
    2005 Audi S4 Cab - Gone but not forgotten

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings BCsniper's Avatar
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    ...balls of steal, this guys has them


    (Myself also. I have used the widow maker on a few occasions. It's not as bad as people think, and it does far less damage to the pinch welds then most jacks....right up until it slips out then it will be 100x worse as everyone has mentioned, and I have seen this happen as well. I have also changed a blow out on the side of the interstate halfway in a ditch before on far from even surface. Basically it is better than nothing, and that's about it.)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings awwturbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brndll View Post
    That was the first thing I thought of as well... didnt even see the wheels but was thinking, "He needs to stop using that jack or his running boards are going to pay..." No offense meant, just a word to the wise.
    I actually cringed when I saw the jack the OP was using. All these flashbacks of having my previous cars fall off that jack came back in full force...

    2012 Audi S4 Prestige | S-tronic | Moonlight Blue | Black Nappa Leather | Sport Diff | Titanium Package | GIAC Dual-Pulley tune and DL501 tune | AWE Coldfront System | CTS 57.02mm S/C Pulley | JHM 179mm Crank Pulley | USP Intake | H&R OE Sport Springs | 034 Trans Insert | ECS rear diff mount

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auxnbus View Post
    This is just a guess....... but Squiddy probably has a proper jack.
    Looks like a test fitting in the parking lot of a wheel/tire store where he may not have had his good jack.
    Only a guess.
    You're good. Actually, I have a few good jacks, some ramps, and some stands . . . in my garage. And I didn't want anything heavy, like a jack, rolling around in my trunk, bashing things up. You can even see the seller in the reflection on Audi's excellent factory paint. He said he was getting something done there anyway, and it seemed like he needed my payment to get it done because he got there, asked me to get there early, was sitting inside when I arrived, then after ~20 minutes of opening boxes and test fitting, he went back inside to talk to the clerk to get some work done.

    That said, I had never heard of what everyone else is speaking of happening. I can see it happening, but I did make absolutely sure to put the emergency brake on hard and the car in gear, so that even if I lift a second wheel off the ground with this super stiff chassis, it would not roll. I specifically lifted that wheel about 1mm off the ground, so the rear wheel did not get airborne, and the final confirmation that she was solid was that I could not rotate the driver's front wheel because the other three were all solidly touching the asphalt. I was on nearly flat pavement. But I will be more wary of that jack in the future, though it may be a few more years before it leaves the trunk again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whatset View Post
    Nice work Squid, you'll love the new lightweight setup and extra grip. I say you pit the LSD against the rear end in a battle royale and let us know what happens.

    Happy for you.
    Thanks. I will still not be launching the car, but you can absolutely bet that she will be driven even harder with the new rubber. I expect significantly higher limits. As it is, it has taken all the punishment I've thrown its way, including pitching hard into broken pavement, and the associated wheel hopping and scrabbling for traction. It never seemed to mind that, and in fact kept things alarmingly tidy so long as the loud pedal is at least partway down. I've since learned that it's pretty much okay to do whatever I want on anything that seems to look reminiscent of pavement.

    I hope she doesn't puke her guts up, but I won't let that fear stop me from driving the way I want to drive.
    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

  10. #10
    Senior Member Two Rings LOUDERPLEASE's Avatar
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    Nice one squid.

    Superfluous comment: my jack collapsed / total failure while reinstalling my spacers on the weekend. The "pins" at the top just slid out of the main frame.....lucky the wheel was still on at the time and my hands where out of the way.

    Rubbish! NEIN! Rubbish!

    Now I don't know what sort of jack to get that will fit in the boot and not be a collapsible embarassment.....

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings beemercer's Avatar
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    using the widow maker puts hair on your chest.. had to replace an oil line on my A6 on the side of the Merrit Parkway one time and it held despite cars roaring by at 80mph. That was an experience.

    and nice video on the rotary forging, interesting process sounds like its basically a modified ring roller
    You represent the idiocy of today.

  12. #12
    Registered Member Four Rings B6JoeS4's Avatar
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    BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2 are great tire. Continental are too heave for the S4, it took all the steering response and near-limit confidence away from the car

  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Don't use that jack unless you are desperate! I was stupid enough to use it in my garage and the jack slid under the car as I was changing a wheel. Luckily, the wheel was on, but the lug bolts were only hand tight. The car came right down and fast - and I was kneeling right there. That jack truly must be used only on very rough surfaces to avoid slippage.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B6JoeS4 View Post
    BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2 are great tire. Continental are too heave for the S4, it took all the steering response and near-limit confidence away from the car
    Thanks. I thought that tire was UHP, which is kind of a step or two down from the Conti Extremes, Michelin PSS, Potenza S-04, etc. I remember the original G-Force Sport was a pretty good tire for the money, but I'm less concerned with the "for the money" part now. If I can get 3k-5k miles out of them, that's enough for me, since this is a weekend car. It just needs to handle rain, so no Pilot Sport Cups or the like.

    Update - A little more specific test fit will happen in the next few days, so that I can see if there is any point in test fitting a 255. I may find that it's just not even close. Will post pics following.
    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings beemercer's Avatar
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    '90 Cq - '13 R
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    not the lightest tire, but I loved my Hankook RS3s. Did fine in rain and even snow lol (just one time). Very oversized tire though.
    You represent the idiocy of today.

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings Dcass08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVier View Post
    Yeah that jack will eat a hole in the side of car when it slips. Ask me how passenger side knows
    That shit happened to me as well.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    Okay, so I took a little time last night to make an extended test fit. I jacked up the front left again, in my garage, with one of my hydraulic jacks and a piece of wood to protect the pinch weld. I removed the factory wheel and bolts, measured the distance the bolts protrude from the back of the mounting pad. The bolts have 3/4" of threads protruding from the pad. I put the bolts into the new wheels, and they only protrude 5/8". So I need slightly longer wheel bolts. I then installed the new wheel, with hub-centric ring and still no tire, onto the car, and tightened the bolts. I put down some pieces of wood under the wheel, and several layers of cardboard, and then slowly proceeded to lower the car onto the wheel, using wood and lots of cardboard to help distribute the load over the bottom of the wheel. I measured the other side at about 5" from the edge of the rim to the bottom of the fender, so I lowered it until the same point on the wheel with no tire.

    What did I learn? Well, folks, don't buy ET32 wheels in anything wider than stock. The outer bead, right about 3mm worth, sticks out past the fender. I'd feel atrocious, because I think it's a travesty, and this will force me to run the stock size, 235/40/18. However, there really is not much room up against the upright, so maybe this isn't that bad. And I'm still saving a huge amount of rotational inertia over stock, and going from some kind of lame high performance all season tire to the super sticky king of the hill (for non-R-compounds). I found a few pics of 235mm PSS's on 8.5" wheels, and I can pretty much guarantee that 245's aren't going to fit. But, to make sure, I set up an appointment Saturday afternoon to take one of my existing, factory size 235/40/18's and mount it onto one of the new rims, for a complete test fit with tire. Then I can decide if there is more room, or if rolling will give me enough room for 245's. This isn't a race car, so I doubt I'd really notice the pure roadholding difference between 235's and 245's (not counting the handling/balance difference), but I'd just as soon have the extra rubber anyway. If I run 235's, I'll feel like I could have run 8" wheels with a little less weight. Wheels should only be the size needed for proper tire fitment, and to clear the brakes.

    Anybody know a good fender roller in Orlando? I don't want any paint damage, so I'd rather pay someone to do it right than screw up my fenders.
    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

  18. #18
    Registered Member Four Rings B6JoeS4's Avatar
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    235 is better, I do not understand why people attempt to run the 245's. If you need the extra traction then focus on suspension and maybe a sticker tire before you attempt to thing that a 245 is going to give you more traction than a 235. You also lower your gear ration because the 245 is ever so slightly taller.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings BCsniper's Avatar
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    I loved running a 245 tire.....for exactly this reason

    Quote Originally Posted by B6JoeS4 View Post
    the 245 is ever so slightly taller.
    slightly taller sidewall, plus it's anti-stretch having a meatier tire is almost always a good thing. Gives you a nice buffer zone against curbing your wheel also. This is on the stock 8" wide wheel though. I like that it just gives you that little bit extra over stock, however on anything wider than an 8" wheel I could easily see having issues

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiSport12's Avatar
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    *Slide your removed wheel under the car if you have to use that jack (or really with any jack).*

    I'd rather scratch a wheel than any alternative. Anyways, nice pick up on the wheels. Light too!
    2003 Z71 Tahoe
    2000 B5 S4 - Sold
    2001 B5 1.8TQM F21L - Sold
    2000 B5 1.8TQM - RIP
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    1997 B5 1.8TQ - Sold

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    Thanks. I thought these were some of the ones you said you had seen completely fail? No, I take it? And where did you happen to get them?

    I understand plenty well the needs of rod ends, though we got spoiled rotten in college with a sponsorship by Aurora

    Oh, and go check the pics I sent you. 235 fitment is PERFECT. 235/40/18 PSS's are GOING on this car. Should be no rubbing. Might need to pull the little fender bolt in front, but the fitment is beautiful, the wheels are beautiful.

    Also, for posterity - weighed the stock wheels. 30.0lb bare, no weights and no valve stem. So 30-20.6 - 9.4lb each wheel savings. The ZE-912 lists as 28lb, while the PSS is 23lb, so that's 5lb each there. Total = 58lb of rotating mass shaved, and the same weight shaved from the curb as well. Definitely under 4,000lb will be with driver and some fuel, with NO other weight savings measures, including full size spare intact.

    Oh, and Whatset - I also had the thought of casting my own rubber bushings for the upper control arms. With an eccentric bushing, camber would be fixed, and with zero chance of failure, and excellent longevity. I have a shop press, so it's not like I'd have to deal with somebody not installing it in just the right spot. But really, I couldn't ask for better fitment as is. I'll post pics here eventually.
    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Three Rings Whatset's Avatar
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    I do think I said that, crap...and I mis-spoke. What I've heard about these (is the same as I heard/told you about the CPT ones from Chicago) - they can be squeaky/noisy. Which is understandable as they are all metal spherical bushings. They will also eventually melt down as they are metal on metal - but in the mean time they are...well, rugged. Def. not the most civilized on the market. I got 'em from one of my bestest Audi buds in So Cal - and my deal stands, what I said on the phone I meant. We could also see if one of my track friends with Sterns wants these and we would shoot you the more civilized ones. Food for thought anyway.

    The failure ones were K-MAC http://www.k-mac.com/pages/newprods/audi/audi.htm

    Nice work on the Jenny Craig wheel set! Cost effective, light and it sounds like fitment is looking good.

    Next time we speak make sure to queue up the fixed control arm idea - I like the concept.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    I will apologize for my long absence here on the interwebs in the classic style: by posting several photographs! Enjoy













    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

  24. #24
    Senior Member Two Rings thomasskull666's Avatar
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    Clean and elegant, love em.
    2007 Daytona Grey RS4

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings FulhamFTW's Avatar
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    They look good, but I think it's time to lower that bad boy.

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings Datadatum's Avatar
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    Looks great, Squiddy!

  27. #27
    Senior Member Four Rings iHaveBoost?'s Avatar
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    lower it

  28. #28
    Established Member Two Rings nonchalant_Gee's Avatar
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    Moar low !

  29. #29
    Senior Member Three Rings Time4Audi's Avatar
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    Classy

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings SquiddyB6S4's Avatar
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    Teh!cks-us

    Thank you, gentlemen. And no; it will probably never be lowered as long as I own it. But I will say that the wheels are a fair deal for their weight, and the PSS's are absolutely worth every penny and then some. I have only yet begun to explore their upper limits. This car finally has so much grip that the traction control is almost unnecessary. In second gear with the wheel turned, foot planted used to mean the rear end was coming out or the traction control light was going to come on, pull throttle, and nasty understeer would ensue. Now, even turned hard, foot planted, the traction control light will come on, but it doesn't appear to do anything, as the car just screams into its new direction without fuss. Of course cornering is also massively improved over my old wannabe sports tires. I have not really found the comfortable limits there, so I won't speculate much, but the dry grip is far and away better.

    It's also interesting to me how much better tires have become over the past decade or so. Great tires 10 years ago were not what great tires are today. Science rocks.
    -Jason
    2004 B6S4 6MT - Apikol Snub Mount, Piggie Pipes, Magnaflow Cat-Back, JHM Tune with Launch Assist, Squid Rear LSD #01 20lb wheels + Michelin PSS
    2013 Veloster Turbo 6MT - For sale
    1996 Miata - DE car; every moving part new or rebuilt, almost stock
    1995 Accord Wagon - Beautiful, stock, DD Duty, trip-mobile, track day support wagon
    LifeWithSquid

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