Buying my first car...any advice needed from you guys

[throwaway9500]

I've been working in the NYC area and will be moving somewhere else soon where I will need a car. I'm in the market for a used car and have been primarily looking at the following 2008 models (30K-35K Miles):

-2008 Audi A4 is my first choice. But I've heard that they have many quality and reliability issues and that is definitely turning me away right now. What are your guys thoughts, reviews, and what you've heard and seen? Warranty after four years?

-2008 BMW 328i-Not much research, but many people have said the reliability of BMWs are top notch

-2008 Acura TL- Cheaper, but we know Honda makes top quality stuff.

-2008 IS250- Not much research done, but Toyota quality

- 2010 Honda Accord (2010 Model, >20K Miles, $19K) - Or should I just got with the safe Honda Accord option? Runs great, reliable, no problems

Dropping around $21K Cash, and I have found many cars in that price range within that mileage and 2008 model year.

Any help would be appreciated, this will be my first car. So I would appreciate negotiating tips or anything car-related. 30K miles too much? I just need something reliable, but didn't mind having something nice.

[TMurt]

Do you need all wheel drive? From my experience, 3 series will be very hard to find for $21k with only 35k miles. TLs are definetely nice and quick but not quite like the A4 and 3 series.

The A4s had a lot of the hiccups fixed by 2007-08 to my knowledge. Regardless, finding any of those car with less than 35k miles for only $21k could be difficult. You can get A4s for the CPO option, additionalal 2 years of warranty, but again most of those (that I saw) cost mid 20s

[throwaway9500]

Do you need all wheel drive? From my experience, 3 series will be very hard to find for $21k with only 35k miles. TLs are definetely nice and quick but not quite like the A4 and 3 series.

The A4s had a lot of the hiccups fixed by 2007-08 to my knowledge. Regardless, finding any of those car with less than 35k miles for only $21k could be difficult. You can get A4s for the CPO option, additionalal 2 years of warranty, but again most of those (that I saw) cost mid 20s

Hey, thanks for the quick response. Been browsing the whole day (literally) looking at cars. Have found many Used Audi A4s in the 30K-35K range in the $21K range pre-negotiation. They are not CPO, so that's holding me back a bit. I don't need AWD (moving to NC). What are your thoughts on TLs?

[TMurt]

Hey, thanks for the quick response. Been browsing the whole day (literally) looking at cars. Have found many Used Audi A4s in the 30K-35K range in the $21K range pre-negotiation. They are not CPO, so that's holding me back a bit. I don't need AWD (moving to NC). What are your thoughts on TLs?

We tested one when looking for my car, it is the most spacious car you listed, comfy seats, and it will come well equipped (Nav, xenons, heated seats). Finding an A4 exactly the way you want it is tough with all the variations. I personally think the TL looks great too. The front wheel drive is a downside though. The TL was also the most abundant car when I looked too, gives you more choices.

Of the 4 2008s you listed, this is how I'd rank them from most comfortable to most sporty
-Lexus IS250
-Acura TL
-Audi A4
-Bmw 3 series

[EMAXX]

This is an Audi board. You have to keep this in mind.

I currently own a 2008 A4 that is about to hit 60k miles. I've had a few of the normal problems such as the PCV, and burning oil, but other than that, the car has been great. The oil burn has also been fixed on the car now. For the region that I live in, I don't think there could have been a much better car. My parents live in Wyoming and I go to school in Colorado. I travel between the states a lot and go skiing most weekends.

For a first car, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the cars that you have mentioned. I actually test drove numerous TL's and really feel in love with them, but the AWD is what sold me on the Audi. (The new TL's have the SH-AWD that would make the decision that much tougher.) Getting a 2008, you should be able to find a TL Type-S with all the bells and whistles for about your price range.
The Accord is basically the same car as the TL. If you wanna get a newer car, with less luxury amenities, go with the Accord. I feel that the steering and driving is similar, as long as you go with the 6 cylinder in the Accord. One of the first cars I drove was a 2003 Honda Accord and I honestly loved the way it felt.

I don't think that I would go with the E90 3 series just cause the 328i is the lowest end model. Whenever I test drove BMW's, it seemed like there was a huge discrepancy between the top of the line 335i and the entry level 328i.

[throwaway9500]

We tested one when looking for my car, it is the most spacious car you listed, comfy seats, and it will come well equipped (Nav, xenons, heated seats). Finding an A4 exactly the way you want it is tough with all the variations. I personally think the TL looks great too. The front wheel drive is a downside though. The TL was also the most abundant car when I looked too, gives you more choices.

Of the 4 2008s you listed, this is how I'd rank them from most comfortable to most sporty
-Lexus IS250
-Acura TL
-Audi A4
-Bmw 3 series

Any idea on the quality and main. costs of a 328 compared to an A4?

[throwaway9500]

This is an Audi board. You have to keep this in mind.

I currently own a 2008 A4 that is about to hit 60k miles. I've had a few of the normal problems such as the PCV, and burning oil, but other than that, the car has been great. The oil burn has also been fixed on the car now. For the region that I live in, I don't think there could have been a much better car. My parents live in Wyoming and I go to school in Colorado. I travel between the states a lot and go skiing most weekends.

For a first car, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the cars that you have mentioned. I actually test drove numerous TL's and really feel in love with them, but the AWD is what sold me on the Audi. (The new TL's have the SH-AWD that would make the decision that much tougher.) Getting a 2008, you should be able to find a TL Type-S with all the bells and whistles for about your price range.
The Accord is basically the same car as the TL. If you wanna get a newer car, with less luxury amenities, go with the Accord. I feel that the steering and driving is similar, as long as you go with the 6 cylinder in the Accord. One of the first cars I drove was a 2003 Honda Accord and I honestly loved the way it felt.

I don't think that I would go with the E90 3 series just cause the 328i is the lowest end model. Whenever I test drove BMW's, it seemed like there was a huge discrepancy between the top of the line 335i and the entry level 328i.

Thanks for the info Emaxx. The PCV and the Burning oil problem, how much did it cost to fix them? Also, in terms of main., is it really that much more than other cars? Any other things you want to mention about the A4 (good and bad)? Going to go test drive one soon and it is my first choice. While I do want something nice, I want something reliable as well (which is why the Accord is still in consideration). I've had some very crappy cars growing up that have stalled on me. Every time I came to a stop in my 93 Mazda 626 back in high school, I had to put the car in Park/Neutral and rev the engine so that the car wouldn't shut down LOL.

[EMAXX]

Thanks for the info Emaxx. The PCV and the Burning oil problem, how much did it cost to fix them? Also, in terms of main., is it really that much more than other cars? Any other things you want to mention about the A4 (good and bad)? Going to go test drive one soon and it is my first choice. While I do want something nice, I want something reliable as well (which is why the Accord is still in consideration). I've had some very crappy cars growing up that have stalled on me. Every time I came to a stop in my 93 Mazda 626 back in high school, I had to put the car in Park/Neutral and rev the engine so that the car wouldn't shut down LOL.

The PCV was replaced under warranty for me. Many people have just chose to bypass the PCV and add a catch can, which can be purchased for about $200-$300 and considered a permanent fix. For the oil burn, I had Audi Care for the first 45k miles that I owned the car. (Means that the dealership did all my oil changes and I paid like $750 up front when I purchased the car.) The dealer that I was taking my car to was using Castrol. Since Audi Care has been finished, I started changing my own oil and switch to Liqi Moly oil and I haven't had any oil burn issues since then.
I used to have a Nissan Maxima before the Audi, and sure, oil changes will cost a little bit more cause you have to get synthetic oil, but over 10k miles, I think it comes out to about a $30 difference. Not really that big of a deal. I've also checked my cam follower, which looked fine even at 55k miles. That might have to do with the fact that the Nissan was a 3.5L V6, where the Audi is a 2.0L I4 that uses less oil. Very minor scratching, which has been common with many of the 2008. I ended up changing it out with a new one just in case, which is a $40 part every 50k miles.
The one thing about the Audi is that if you end up with the 2.0T engine, the timing belt service is going to cost much more than many of the other cars because it is much more involved. If you know your way around a car, you can save a lot of money. I plan on doing my timing belt within the next 15k miles or so.

I enjoy working my car every weekend. When I have things like an oil change, or clay bar, or something along those lines, it really brightens my day. If you don't want to worry about anything related to the car, just get the Accord and call it a day.

[throwaway9500]

The PCV was replaced under warranty for me. Many people have just chose to bypass the PCV and add a catch can, which can be purchased for about $200-$300 and considered a permanent fix. For the oil burn, I had Audi Care for the first 45k miles that I owned the car. (Means that the dealership did all my oil changes and I paid like $750 up front when I purchased the car.) The dealer that I was taking my car to was using Castrol. Since Audi Care has been finished, I started changing my own oil and switch to Liqi Moly oil and I haven't had any oil burn issues since then.
I used to have a Nissan Maxima before the Audi, and sure, oil changes will cost a little bit more cause you have to get synthetic oil, but over 10k miles, I think it comes out to about a $30 difference. Not really that big of a deal. I've also checked my cam follower, which looked fine even at 55k miles. That might have to do with the fact that the Nissan was a 3.5L V6, where the Audi is a 2.0L I4 that uses less oil. Very minor scratching, which has been common with many of the 2008. I ended up changing it out with a new one just in case, which is a $40 part every 50k miles.
The one thing about the Audi is that if you end up with the 2.0T engine, the timing belt service is going to cost much more than many of the other cars because it is much more involved. If you know your way around a car, you can save a lot of money. I plan on doing my timing belt within the next 15k miles or so.

I enjoy working my car every weekend. When I have things like an oil change, or clay bar, or something along those lines, it really brightens my day. If you don't want to worry about anything related to the car, just get the Accord and call it a day.

Damn, those things worry me but that seems like a lot of maintenance. Well, I guess I'll look into TLs and Accords a little bit more. I'm a bit upset that for such a nice car...that it seems to be having such issues. Thanks for the solid and non-bias advice.

[EMAXX]

Damn, those things worry me but that seems like a lot of maintenance. Well, I guess I'll look into TLs and Accords a little bit more. I'm a bit upset that for such a nice car...that it seems to be having such issues. Thanks for the solid and non-bias advice.

A lot of German cars are going to be more involved than their Japanese counterparts. I think of it as just part of the ownership. Brings you closer to your car.

The timing belt is recommend by Audi every 110k-120k miles or something like that. If you get it done at the dealership, I think it's like $1,300. If you do it yourself, you can get the parts for about $400. Indy shops can do the service for about $600.

The one thing that I really like in the TL over the Audi are the seats. The seats in the Audi suck. I just got back from a 3,000 mile road trip and my back has been killing me.

Really though, the A4 is a great car. This is an internet board where enthusiasts and people that have had problems with their cars will come to talk. It makes the problems seem like they are a lot worse than they really are for the majority of the population. Like I said, you really can't go wrong with any of the cars that you chose on your list.

[throwaway9500]

A lot of German cars are going to be more involved than their Japanese counterparts. I think of it as just part of the ownership. Brings you closer to your car.

The timing belt is recommend by Audi every 110k-120k miles or something like that. If you get it done at the dealership, I think it's like $1,300. If you do it yourself, you can get the parts for about $400. Indy shops can do the service for about $600.

The one thing that I really like in the TL over the Audi are the seats. The seats in the Audi suck. I just got back from a 3,000 mile road trip and my back has been killing me.

Really though, the A4 is a great car. This is an internet board where enthusiasts and people that have had problems with their cars will come to talk. It makes the problems seem like they are a lot worse than they really are for the majority of the population. Like I said, you really can't go wrong with any of the cars that you chose on your list.

Thanks...just a few more questions.

I have been looking at some Audi A4s in the 35K Mile Range and all sellers have been telling me that no main. work has been done outside of the usual oil changes and front brake work. Should I demand that they get PVC and oil burning issues checked out before committed to buying it? Also, what are your thoughts on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ht_6479wt_1266

The ebay listing is over-priced and I plan to talk him down. Any certain questions that I should be asking for an A4 with that Mileage Range on it?

[EMAXX]

Thanks...just a few more questions.

I have been looking at some Audi A4s in the 35K Mile Range and all sellers have been telling me that no main. work has been done outside of the usual oil changes and front brake work. Should I demand that they get PVC and oil burning issues checked out before committed to buying it? Also, what are your thoughts on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ht_6479wt_1266

The ebay listing is over-priced and I plan to talk him down. Any certain questions that I should be asking for an A4 with that Mileage Range on it?

The PCV has issue has a 10 year 120k mile warranty on it now, so if anything goes wrong, they'll fix it under warranty. No worries. The oil burn, unless you are burning more than 1 quart every 1,000 miles, Audi won't do anything. I had two different oil consumption tests done by Audi and they said that it was all normal.

The thing that really worries me about that e-Bay listing is two things. The pictures show two different cars. Some of the pictures are in a showroom, whereas some are on the driveway. There are xenons in some of the pictures, and a few of the pictures show the halogen headlights.
Also, the pictures show a S-Line exterior package, yet they say that the car stickered for $42k new. There is no way a car with those options was $42k brand new.
Also, why in the first two pictures, is there are Microsoft paint touchup on the front bumper?

[throwaway9500]

The PCV has issue has a 10 year 120k mile warranty on it now, so if anything goes wrong, they'll fix it under warranty. No worries. The oil burn, unless you are burning more than 1 quart every 1,000 miles, Audi won't do anything. I had two different oil consumption tests done by Audi and they said that it was all normal.

The thing that really worries me about that e-Bay listing is two things. The pictures show two different cars. Some of the pictures are in a showroom, whereas some are on the driveway. There are xenons in some of the pictures, and a few of the pictures show the halogen headlights.
Also, the pictures show a S-Line exterior package, yet they say that the car stickered for $42k new. There is no way a car with those options was $42k brand new.
Also, why in the first two pictures, is there are Microsoft paint touchup on the front bumper?

Thanks for the info. I too, noticed the MS Paint on the bumper and asked him for an explanation on that. Will get answers from him...how much of an offer should I make and what would you pay for this? Assuming the MS Paint was just some mis-hap and it does come with xenons?

[Audi_509]

Did you notice the different headlights (xenon and halogen) in the pictures? If you compare the pic 6 (1st row) compare it to pic 1 or 2 (1st row) you can see the difference. You want make sure it has xenon.

[funky_snowman]

if you are worried about quality, stay away from the TL. the motor is great, but the rest of the car is utter crap in terms of build quality. the is250 wouldn't be bad if you don't mind being a little bored.

im not sure i'd suggest someone getting an audi or bmw for a first car though, assuming you're a new driver. get something you won't be upset to ding up a bit.

[throwaway9500]

if you are worried about quality, stay away from the TL. the motor is great, but the rest of the car is utter crap in terms of build quality. the is250 wouldn't be bad if you don't mind being a little bored.

im not sure i'd suggest someone getting an audi or bmw for a first car though, assuming you're a new driver. get something you won't be upset to ding up a bit.

No, not a new driver. 24 now, but have been living in NYC for the past two years and am moving in the near future. So, I'll need a car. What makes you say that the TL is crap quality?

[throwaway9500]

Did you notice the different headlights (xenon and halogen) in the pictures? If you compare the pic 6 (1st row) compare it to pic 1 or 2 (1st row) you can see the difference. You want make sure it has xenon.

Yeah, other poster mentioned it as well. I e-mailed him asking about the difference.

[Inked]

There's alot of misinformation on this forum. What everyone is failing to communicate is the a4 only has problems after being chipped. Once you get chipped the higher performance triggers a few parts to fail(which can be replaced for a more efficient part that won't fail). Also on the oil burning, my car is stock and I don't burn a drop of oil whatsoever. IMO only, I think being chipped is what causes the excessive oil burning.

[throwaway9500]

There's alot of misinformation on this forum. What everyone is failing to communicate is the a4 only has problems after being chipped. Once you get chipped the higher performance triggers a few parts to fail(which can be replaced for a more efficient part that won't fail). Also on the oil burning, my car is stock and I don't burn a drop of oil whatsoever. IMO only, I think being chipped is what causes the excessive oil burning.

Ok, nice to hear. I have no intention of doing anything of that sort. Going to go test drive one this week.

[Inked]

Ok, nice to hear. I have no intention of doing anything of that sort. Going to go test drive one this week.

Cool, I'm sure there will be plenty of those who will disagree with me, but this is my experience so far.

[EMAXX]

There's alot of misinformation on this forum. What everyone is failing to communicate is the a4 only has problems after being chipped. Once you get chipped the higher performance triggers a few parts to fail(which can be replaced for a more efficient part that won't fail). Also on the oil burning, my car is stock and I don't burn a drop of oil whatsoever. IMO only, I think being chipped is what causes the excessive oil burning.

The parts are more prone to failure when the car has been chipped, but stock cars can experience the exact same issues.

[FlipBoyx318]

Just like you i was looking in to the 08 A4 and the 08 TL. I ended up getting the A4 over the tl cause i think it looks better all-wheel drive and turbo. i hear you on that A4 having problems and what not but thankfully my A4 is performing fine. before i got this car i had a 2010 Honda Civic (so i looked at the reliability portion of the tl) and that was just ok but not what i was looking for plus i thought iabout my past cars and the most fun one i had was the 03 VW GTi 1.8t. so thats another reason why i went back to the german cars. but over all, i think that both cars will have their troubles but i think that people think the maintenance on the german cars are more apparent is because they are more expensive to do so rather than the acuras or hondas. anyway, hope this somewhat helps ya. and when u get your car post some pics

[GarrettReid]

Can you tell us what you're looking for in a car?

At first I thought you wanted something entry level luxury, then you threw in the Honda Accord.

[throwaway9500]

Can you tell us what you're looking for in a car?

At first I thought you wanted something entry level luxury, then you threw in the Honda Accord.

The Honda Accord was thrown in as a Wildcard. Just in case..I decided that I was just looking to get from Point A to Point B..it was just a strictly backup option.

[Becker]

Yeah, be sure to get a CPO with extended warranty :) - But you should be able to get an 08 A4 for that amount of money. I got one with 37k on the clock.

[BoSNiaN]

No offence, but where did you get the idea that Honda and Toyota are "quality"? Both are garbage Chinese brands....

As for BMW, not a bad choice but definitely more expensive repairs than our A4's, especially if it has 2 turbo's (and you'll be paying alot more for gas too).