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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Not lowered, wheel scraping fender

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    Like the title says, my car isn't lowered (everything is stock in fact) and the tires are the correct size. Slow right turns make the right front wheel scrape on the fender. I am assuming its the actual tire because the marks look that way. It is scraping the back part of the front fender. Is it a shock issue? And would it be the left or right one? The cv axle was replaced 1,000 miles ago and alignment was done then as well so it can't be that. Quicker turns don' have any scraping. For whatever reason I think it's the shock so would it be totally gone or is there any possibility it could just be a tweak? I'd love to be naive enough to think it just needs to be tightened but I am realistic. Thanks for the help!
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings bez101's Avatar
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    Oct 06 2009
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    sheffield

    if the shocks gone then a new one is needed
    have you checked the springs they do snap

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I would suspect control arms. Shocks in S4 are not used for anything else but just to keep weight of car on the springs. Control arms keep the wheel geometry. If I had a go, I would say that you might have completely failed upper control arms and possibly lower control arms not perfect either for the wheel to tilt out that bad.

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    I have looked at the springs as close as I can and they look fine. Definitely not snapped. Is there an easy way to check the control arms? And it is only scraping on the right so would it be the right or left control arms? Or is there even a right or left? Thanks for the responses guys
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  5. #5
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Oct 06 2011
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    My Garage
    Audi S4 /Wifes 2011 cruz..bleh
    Location
    Southwest Michigan

    Four control arms per side, two on top and two on the bottom. Set the park brake put the car in neutral get out and see if you can push the wheel foreward or back in the wheel well. Look under the car while doing this to see where the movement is coming from.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Two Rings Corrado's Avatar
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    Apr 07 2010
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    MidAtlantic

    If possible, jack the car up and try to move the wheel around...something is definitly wrong, maybe your control arm bushings are shot.

    Other possibility is the plastic fender liner is not in the correct position or is hanging down somehow.

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    So I tried ChrisGS4's suggestion and both the front right and left rolled about an 1/8th of a rotation, maybe a little less than that, but I'll jack the car up in the next couple of days and try it. Am I looking for movement in a specific direction? If it is the control arms I might as well replace both the left and right but since the scraping is on the right does that means it's the right control arms? That may be a dumb question but I just want to make sure it isn't due to the lack of stability on the left side that bad control arms would create.
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    I bought this car a month or so ago and had it inspected before I made the purchase. Would the control arms be something they would have checked? And when they did inspect it they found a torn CV boot and previous owner chose to replace the axle and do the alignment before selling it to me (which, on an unrelated note, was awesome of him). Would the shop have been able to recognize a problem like that then? I'm not looking to find fault with them or anything, I am just curious. And as soon as I jack it up I'll confirm f it's the control arms or not
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    These are pictures from when I had the right wheel jacked up. There was no play in the wheel towards or away, or side to side. It obviously spun freely but I couldn't see anything moving that shouldn't have. Here are pictures of that right tire. If there is nothing you guys see out of the ordinary I can try the same on the left and see if that is where the problem is from.

    This is the actual scraping damage (the more brownish part in the center of the picture, not the small scrape on the black)


    Some assorted pictures from around the wheel:








    Hopefully I got those pictures on right. Thanks for any and all help!
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings Cadiburns's Avatar
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    Feb 17 2010
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    54858
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    Chicago
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    You have to upload the pictures somewhere. You can't link them straight from your email.
    B5 Casa S4 Avant | Tial 605s | EPL | Aquamist

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Reno, NV

    Ok sorry, I can see them now so I thought it worked. How's this?

    This is the actual scraping damage (the more brownish part in the center of the picture, not the small scrape on the black)
    [IMG][/IMG]


    Some assorted pictures from around the wheel:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Those work?
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Reno, NV

    And just in case...

    This is the actual scraping damage (the more brownish part in the center of the picture, not the small scrape on the black):


    Others:









    Sorry if they both worked. I don't mean to be obnoxious
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    That lowere control arm might be bent. Might be the camera perspective though. Please compare to the other side. If it is bent, then the other arms are probably bent as well.

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    You know, I think it's the camera angle. It doesn't look misshapen at all in person, but this picture definitely makes it look that way. Ill definitely compare it to the left as soon as I can though. I honestly don't notice any normal body lean, any compromise in handling or breaking, or really anything out of the ordinary. It's just this damn scrape! It isn't even consistent! I've narrowed it down to about 10-20 miles an hour slowing down and turning right. I hate it! Other than that though, I really do love the car and am super happy with my purchase
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  15. #15
    Established Member Three Rings
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    Oct 06 2011
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    My Garage
    Audi S4 /Wifes 2011 cruz..bleh
    Location
    Southwest Michigan

    What size tires are you running? Possible oversized tire that wouldn't rub otherwise?

  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Reno, NV

    225/ 45 I think that's stock size, right?

  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Today when I was driving I paid a little more attention than usual to it and have narrowed it down maybe a little more. The scraping is only on deceleration, more specifically under braking. Any type of considerable slow down while turning the wheel right (and I don't have to be turning the wheel too hard to the right either) and then it scrapes. I can have the wheel fully locked to the right and there is no scraping as long as I am accelerating or coasting. I did, however, try to induce it with a simulated really harsh quick lane change in a parking lot (got some weird looks) and it did scrape but it didn't sound as bad as normal. So i guess I have narrowed it down to whatever controls forward body lean. Would that be the control arms or maybe the tie rods? I'm sorry I am not familiar enough to know. Tomorrow afternoon I have access to a shop and proper jacks and stuff so if there is anything specific I should look for or any tests you know of that would be hugely appreciated!!
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Wheel is held in place with 4 control arms and tie rod. While tie rod controls angle at which the wheel is turned, control arms ensure the wheel stays otherwise fixed in two remaining axes.

    While all four control arms participate in that mission, the lower ones are specifically responsible for taking the brunt of any forces trying to move wheel back-and-forth along vehicle axis, that's why they are so beefy and the lower curved one is shaped the way it is with a very large bushing on the frame side. That bushing is oil charged to allow it to take humungous hits gracefully.

    Lower control arms are mounted to subframe which in turn is the platform engine sits on. It is in mounted to car chassis with 4 massive screws and bsuhings.

    Now, your problem could be either/or of the following:

    1) lower control arms are compromised/bent or their bushings are done for. Specifically the large bushing on curved arm. If it is cracked or you lost oil, it will yield much more than it should allowing the wheel to shift backwards much more than normal == rubbing on the chassis.

    2) subframe might have shifted to left side of car or the wheel alignment place did that to even out camber on the wheels. Most of alignment places suck and I've seen far worse things the did. Net result would be one of wheels being closer to center line of car and interfering with chassis when turning and braking when the wheel is pushed backwards. Can you visually see either of front wheel to be closer to fender or having visually different vertical angle it is at when wheels are straight?

    Lift the car and do the following:

    - try moving wheel back and forth (lock he steering wheel first by removing key from igntion). Besides slight steering rack movement accompanied by moving steering wheel in cabin, you should see very little movement with immediate resistance againt your efforts. If it feels loose, your bushings are probably done for.
    - look at subframe location tabs. It looks like a metal tab with about 1/2 - 2/3" hole in it. It is located immediately in front of wheel under/next to bumper. If the frame tab is not located directly under chassis tab but is offset significantly. the frame is either loose or somebody f.up alignment leaving your car skewed. Check the other side of car too. If after you lift the other side the tabs moved, you have loose subframe. Two tabs aligned means that the other two in front of car are also ok so the frame is ok.

    I would also advise looking up suspension and chassis diagrams so that you have an idea how it all aligns and works.

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Ok thank you so much! That'll be super helpful for tomorrow. And the subframe could make a lot of sense. I have a feeling whatever happened when the boot was torn was pretty significant because part of the belly pan is cracked and it tore the boot so maybe the frame would be a result ofthat as well. I'll let you know what I find tomorrow afternoon
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  20. #20
    Stage 3 Forum Advertiser Four Rings ECS Tuning-Audi's Avatar
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    Oct 02 2006
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    Wadsworth,OH

    Definitely might be time for some new control arms and tie rods.

    We have complete kits available below.

    Click HERE to order or for more information.



    Let me know if you have any questions.

    Jason
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  21. #21
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    K so friday night jacked up both sides to test for significant play in the wheels or obvious alignment issues but I couldn't find either. The wheel had virtually no play in any direction, which I think should rule out the control arms and wheel bearings. The upper and lower were both solid when pushed individually, and the cv boot (which is only 500 mile old) looks great. I had the mechanics in the shop look at it too, we were all stumped. Over the weekend I tried some more self diagnosing with no luck. Maybe it isn't the wheel. Its a thud when it happens. I had a passenger describe it like a marble hitting a hard floor (not a rolling noise, just the initial impact.) I've also noticed I can't really do it twice in a row. Like if I make the noise inducing right and then I make another one right after it wont work. It's like I need to straighten out or make a slight left to reset whatever it is. Hopefully this helps. Thank you guys so much, I am almost flat out of ideas of what the hell it could be.
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Obviously something shifts. Have you checked the frame alignment?

    Familiarize yourself with that so that you can find the tabs easily when on the side of road. Go out, do the thud thing, stop gently, see how tabs are. Now start again and reset it with hard left or what ever you need to do to set it ready for another thud when turning. Just don't "thud" this time around. Stop gently. Compare tabs again. If they moved, there, subframe moves (wouldn't be the first car doing that).

    If not, then maybe strut mount on top is moving, it anchors upper control arms.

  23. #23
    Established Member Two Rings nicks01s4's Avatar
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    Ok, I can definitely give that a try. I tried a quick search for where the sub frame tabs are located or what they look like but I am still not very sure. Do you have a good descripition or know where I can find one? And is there a test for the strut mount as well?
    2001 Audi B5 s4, Cactus Green. Stock

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Read my post above, I tell you about tabs. You can't miss them, two stubs of metal with large holes in them hovering over each other.



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