Used S4 Pricing - Going up?

[boilermaker]

Hey there,

Been too long... So it looks like the trusty B6 is on the way out for a B8 and I'm curious what people have been seeing with gently used S4 pricing. I've been looking at 2010 (Non-prestige), but relatively well equipped (Nav,Sport Rear Diff, etc), and it doesn't seem like they're much cheaper than a new one (list prices around $45k). Has anyone bought a 2010-2011 lately that might have an idea what they're going for relative to list?

Seems like there's a supply/demand issue (not much supply in 2009 and most haven't come off lease yet).

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!!!

[A4Blitzkrieg]

It's the same issue in the Bay Area - used 2010 S4's cost just as much as ordering a brand new one. Clearly there is more demand than supply right now. Here's a quick search to give you an example, CPO'ed 2010 S'4's all going for around $52K:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...d=342840&Log=0

Personally I said F it now's not the time for me to upgrade to S4 and instead upgraded to B8 A4 for now.

[TikKToc]

Call me INSANE, but I purchased a 2012 A4 in October and after a week driving a S4 loaner I was hooked so just traded it in on 2012 S4. New one is Monsson Premium, sport Dif, Nav,Nappa, Stainless and advanced Key. Got it for Invoice less Audi Loyalty of $1500. Find a 2012 in stk and press them hard. The 2013 are right around the corner !!!!

[catch]

i noticed the same thing too... up here a 10 goes for low 50s, 11s are selling in the high 50s-low 60s even seensome around 65ish.
new the base car is 54 here

[S4 Paul]

Ive noticed that many are going up in price as well, from the kbb value. I just bought mine but got a great deal 25k miles for 40.5k so i bought it right away with that deal.

[boilermaker]

Ive noticed that many are going up in price as well, from the kbb value. I just bought mine but got a great deal 25k miles for 40.5k so i bought it right away with that deal.

What kind of options did that come with?

[audios4me]

i just bought a 2010 9600mi prem plus with B&O, 19"s, and carbon inlays, DSG. 43k

[Kenfused]

2010 Everything but ADS, clean title, leased from dealer which i purchased at ~$39,000 @ 40,000 miles

[S4 Paul]

What kind of options did that come with?

Prestige package, B&O Sound, Sport Diff, Milltek Exhaust, VMR wheels.

[b6onboost]

You can get a 2010 model 10-20% cheaper than a comparable 2012 model.

[mpflug]

I found the same thing when I was shopping over the past couple months. To me it was well worth 6-8k for the brand new car over a two year old car with 30k miles that someone was thrashing around on a lease.

[brooklyn86]

Check out this thread over on Audiworld on a similar topic: http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...light=2011+cpo

This was my post:

Notice that the price was marked down from $62.980 haha

Unfortunately, DrGP is right. As of 2011, used car market prices have been high in general (not just with the s4).

Has to do with the economy...three years ago (~2008-2009), there was a decrease in new car sales and leases. As a result, there are now less used cars on the market, along with more people keeping their relatively new cars. Not to mention more people wanting to buy used (since traditionally, its financially savvier).

On the flip side, new car prices, as we've seen with the s4, are actually quite low (relatively speaking). Most owners here were able to get close to invoice prices.

To put things into perspective, few weeks ago, I saw a nicely equipped, CPO, low mileage (~5k), 2010 prestige for 50k (one of the more 'reasonable' prices I've seen). Probably MSRP would've been 60k (using the Audi website as a reference). From posts I've seen, people probably could've custom ordered one exactly to spec (new), for as low as 55k, depending on incentives, negotiating, etc.

So in the end, you are talking about a 9% price difference on a 3 year old car! Could you make the argument that 5 years later, if sold, the now new 2012 car, with 1 buyer, newer MY, x miles on it, and full warranty (at no extra cost), would be worth as little as 10% more than its now used counterpart after the same 5 years? I think so...

(P.S. Car was sold a week after the ad went up haha)

Anyway, after looking at the used b8 s4 market for months now, I'm realizing a used CPO may not be the smartest thing if the prices don't go down.

Maybe this will change in the summer, when the 2013 (facelift) model comes out, or maybe by the end of the year, when more s4 leases end and more used cars, in general, are available.

That or you will be able to get an even better deal on a new 2012!

[Kenfused]

someone was thrashing around on a lease.

[BlueByU]

I bought a 2010 in January for $39,900 with 28k. It's a CPO, one owner lease return, sport diff, b&o, alcantara seats.

[A4Blitzkrieg]

I bought a 2010 in January for $39,900 with 28k. It's a CPO, one owner lease return, sport diff, b&o, alcantara seats.

One of the few benefits of living in flyover country.

[marty was here]

One of the few benefits of living in flyover country.

state

similar deals can be found in nj, which isnt a flyover country or state.

[jdwk]

Yeah I originally wanted to get a used one because in AZ you don't pay sales tax on a used car from a private party, but you do on a new car, or even used from a dealer.

I've had Autotrader alert me for well over a year now for any manual transmission private party sales in the country, but even with the tax savings, the prices are never low enough to justify buying a used one over ordering it new. Plus, I am kind of set on picking it up in Germany now, and the wife is all for it since it means she gets a trip to Europe.

Audi dealers usually set a residual of about 50% on 3 year leases. So even if you made each of the first three years equal in value, a 55k msrp S4 should lose eight or nine grand each year, and it looks like they are losing two to three.

A general rule of mine is take the MSRP and subtract the price to get the savings over new. Then divide that number back into the MSRP to get your multiplier. Now multiply the current mileage and age by the multiplier. If you think the car will last that long and provide the same level of comfort and satisfaction as new without major repair or maintenance costs, then it is a good deal.

For example, there is a 2010 that was 55k new with 27k miles on it listed for 47k. There is an 8k savings, which gives you a multiplier of about 7. So the car would need to last 185k miles and 14 years without major repairs while providing the same level of satisfaction to justify buying it over a new car. Is that going to happen with an Audi? Probably not, or with any car for that matter.

This simple formula is actually heavily biased towards the used car as well, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the first years are obviously worth a whole lot more than the last years. The unavoidable rock chips, wear of the leather, tires, brakes, clutch, plastic and rubber trim, motor mounts, suspension, and general creaks and rattles are all going to make the car worse to drive, worse to look at, and more expensive to own. Even if the car was showroom perfect, the manufacturers are constantly trying to make the old car obsolete, with more horsepower, better mileage, lighter materials, and cooler features.

Now, I am the worst of anyone about developing sentimental attachments to cars. I also really appreciate seeing a well-maintained older car. A really clean B5 catches my eye a lot more than the 20 B8's I see everyday. But financially, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[boilermak3r]

I'm with you here... The reason I look to buy used is despite my loyalty (obsession?) with these cars, I still try to look at them as a poor investment/depreciating asset. In this situation though, that's almost hard to do. There's no way to justify not spending the extra money for 2 years of "newness" - when the time comes to sell it.. they'll be worth more than the 6-8k you save today. Ugg... Decisions, decisions.

Yeah I originally wanted to get a used one because in AZ you don't pay sales tax on a used car from a private party, but you do on a new car, or even used from a dealer.

I've had Autotrader alert me for well over a year now for any manual transmission private party sales in the country, but even with the tax savings, the prices are never low enough to justify buying a used one over ordering it new. Plus, I am kind of set on picking it up in Germany now, and the wife is all for it since it means she gets a trip to Europe.

Audi dealers usually set a residual of about 50% on 3 year leases. So even if you made each of the first three years equal in value, a 55k msrp S4 should lose eight or nine grand each year, and it looks like they are losing two to three.

A general rule of mine is take the MSRP and subtract the price to get the savings over new. Then divide that number back into the MSRP to get your multiplier. Now multiply the current mileage and age by the multiplier. If you think the car will last that long and provide the same level of comfort and satisfaction as new without major repair or maintenance costs, then it is a good deal.

For example, there is a 2010 that was 55k new with 27k miles on it listed for 47k. There is an 8k savings, which gives you a multiplier of about 7. So the car would need to last 185k miles and 14 years without major repairs while providing the same level of satisfaction to justify buying it over a new car. Is that going to happen with an Audi? Probably not, or with any car for that matter.

This simple formula is actually heavily biased towards the used car as well, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the first years are obviously worth a whole lot more than the last years. The unavoidable rock chips, wear of the leather, tires, brakes, clutch, plastic and rubber trim, motor mounts, suspension, and general creaks and rattles are all going to make the car worse to drive, worse to look at, and more expensive to own. Even if the car was showroom perfect, the manufacturers are constantly trying to make the old car obsolete, with more horsepower, better mileage, lighter materials, and cooler features.

Now, I am the worst of anyone about developing sentimental attachments to cars. I also really appreciate seeing a well-maintained older car. A really clean B5 catches my eye a lot more than the 20 B8's I see everyday. But financially, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[wcoyne]

bought 2012 non prestige without nab and sport diff for 42k pre owned with 6800 miles in january original window was 51

[A4Blitzkrieg]

I'm with you here... The reason I look to buy used is despite my loyalty (obsession?) with these cars, I still try to look at them as a poor investment/depreciating asset. In this situation though, that's almost hard to do. There's no way to justify not spending the extra money for 2 years of "newness" - when the time comes to sell it.. they'll be worth more than the 6-8k you save today. Ugg... Decisions, decisions.

Consider an A4 B8 with S-Line or sport package? The A4 being Audi's by far best selling car has quite a large used market. The one I just bought in my sig had only 10,400 miles on it, one prior leasor, and I got it for $31.5K with CPO coverage for 100K miles or 5 years. Pretty nice, though the dealer had ganked the titanium edition 19" wheels off of it.

But if you are gainfully employed and don't care much one way or the other about tacking on another $25K, get a new S4. Also, probably heresy to mention it on this board but a sport package Bimmer 3 series, used 2010ish model with low mileage can be had for $25-$35k in my area. I prefer an A4 due to Quattro, interior, and looks, but I fully understand why a lot of people prefer the BMW.

[phillips2024]

went on KBB just now to see what my car is worth.

after 1 year its only gone down 4k dollars. nice

[AAAA]

I'm about to put mine up for sale, not looking to rape anyone. 2011 Ibis white with silver alcantara, B&O, sports diff, 19in wheels, carbon fiber inlays, alum optics package, nav, and 12,400mi for 46k. its got a p3cars digital boost gauge, strat ss, apr fully loaded ecu, and off the car that could be negotiated is milltek exhaust and dps, and strat intake. let me know if anyone is interested.

[BlueByU]

One of the few benefits of living in flyover country.

Actually bought it from Hotlanta/ATL.

[boilermaker]

$9K savings vs 16,500 miles and 2 years of "life"... There's the bottom line...

[jdwk]

$9K savings vs 16,500 miles and 2 years of "life"... There's the bottom line...

The math is easy, 9k into 54k is 6x. So the car will need to last 12 years and 99k miles without any major repairs to make it a good deal. It's right on the edge. If you have a sales tax savings in your state or if it includes an extended warranty, I would say go for it. But more important than that, is it the car you actually want?

[boilermak3r]

The math is easy, 9k into 54k is 6x. So the car will need to last 12 years and 99k miles without any major repairs to make it a good deal. It's right on the edge. If you have a sales tax savings in your state or if it includes an extended warranty, I would say go for it. But more important than that, is it the car you actually want?

Actually does have the options I want. No extended warranty or anything as it's not being sold by an Audi dealer (so no CPO either) - though they can be added for a cost at the local Audi dealer. Some of this is what helps to get the price down, but...

[gringoloco2000]

I bought my CPO 2010 (20K miles) which has almost every option other than ADS suspension for $45K. I am now at 28K. KBB says $48K private party and $44k trade. Sounds too good to be true.

[Brooklyn]

Thought you guys were exaggerating, but KBB just gave me an estimate of between $45-50k for my 2011 Prestige with 29.5k miles. Wow. I should just go order up a TT RS and sell mine now!

[Psalm40]

KBB has been a little too optimistic in my mind. Last fall, it listed my 2010 Subaru Outback (I bought in Oct 2009) for the same price that I paid for it...that is after 2 years and 9,000 miles. Granted I got a pretty good initial deal and the used car market is strong, but no depreciation over 2 years? C'mon.....

[ChrisB8S4]

I am interested in your "off the car" parts. Please PM me or email me at brownchristopher29@gmail.com

I'm about to put mine up for sale, not looking to rape anyone. 2011 Ibis white with silver alcantara, B&O, sports diff, 19in wheels, carbon fiber inlays, alum optics package, nav, and 12,400mi for 46k. its got a p3cars digital boost gauge, strat ss, apr fully loaded ecu, and off the car that could be negotiated is milltek exhaust and dps, and strat intake. let me know if anyone is interested.

[Pworld]

If somebody offers me 55-60 for my 2012, it would be gone in a heartbeat! Take everything on it too!! lol

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I compiled some empirical data on this subject a few weeks ago that I originally posted on QW. Unfortunately there isn't a good database on used car actual sale prices (didn't want to use Manheim because I feel those prices don't accurately reflect the cost to the end-users, but rather the dealer who is then marking up the price to make a profit), so I based it on asking prices. So maybe take a couple thousand off these numbers to get a more "realistic" value.

[boilermak3r]

I compiled some empirical data on this subject a few weeks ago that I originally posted on QW. Unfortunately there isn't a good database on used car actual sale prices (didn't want to use Manheim because I feel those prices don't accurately reflect the cost to the end-users, but rather the dealer who is then marking up the price to make a profit), so I based it on asking prices. So maybe take a couple thousand off these numbers to get a more "realistic" value.

That's awesome. CarGurus is a pretty neat too : http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Audi-S4-d30

Amazing what the internet has done to car buying in just the last 3-4 years...

[clerkpalmer]

end of December, I purchased a 2010, Ibis, DSG, Nav., Sport Diff., Carbon Inlays, 15k miles, non-CPO for $42.5k.

[Kandiru]

The flipside of buying a second hand performance car is that is has been used and abused, modified too.
Just read what we do with our cars at the track and dragstrip and draw your conclusions. Repairs may be
costly.

The main reason that second hand S4s are so peppery is because most will never find an enthusiast oriented
car on a lot. When i was scouring the tri-state area for one, i could only find automatics, then the 6MT i found
was loaded to the hilt with the odd omission of the rear differential. Still i got a pretty good idea that it would
be worth the wait for the mail-order second wife:)

[Leor604]

I listened to one of the automotive podcasts (Drivers Talk Radio) recently and they were saying the same thing about high trade in values. Apparently, the used market is on fire to the point that used cars in some cases cost more than the same car new. I can't figure out how this is possible (who would go for a deal like that???) but that's what they said.

[ImolaMonster]

its been this way for a while - for some reason, audi just cannot produce their s line cars fast enough for people to buy them. every now and then there will be one at a dealer, but it is usually sold pretty quickly. too bad I'm not selling mine any time soon

[MeteorS4Ti]

Thought you guys were exaggerating, but KBB just gave me an estimate of between $45-50k for my 2011 Prestige with 29.5k miles. Wow. I should just go order up a TT RS and sell mine now!

+1 11 Prestige with 21k miles. Same money. My A4 B7 also held its value very well..

[Drizz]

I had a '10 B8 S4 for 17 months and 16K miles, traded it in for a '12 BMW 335is and w/ zero back and forth dealer offered me over $4K more then what my payoff was. I didn't even put down a dollar on my S4 so it's not like I had an artificially low residual or anything. IIRC my payoff was $36K (had a pretty base S4, sticker was $47K) and dealer gave me $40K. Now, that was a dealer w/ zero back and forth, so I would image I could have gotten $2K more private party but it was easier to just do a trade.

[gringoloco2000]

So much for prices going up. Was doing some research and found these 2010 gems.

$35K - http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...18268508&Log=0

$41K - http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...18230947&Log=0