Impressions on GIAC tune...

[1FastS4.Com]

Looks like they had like 1 fan running need more fans

[rickawd]

If you don't mind me asking, who was your dealer?

I bought my AWE/GIAC parts from Nate @ RMS.

Could be just some bad dyno runs. I will get it dyno'ed again to be sure.

[FlaS4]

Here is a huge reason I would give my business to Champion were I living in Florida:



2005 Le Mans 24H champions with Tom Kristensen, JJ Lehto and Marco Werner. How many shops can say that?

Audi pulled their sponsorship after the manager got in a big fight with them and they shut down their motorsport program and the mechanics and engineers all left and they moved away from Audi. I would stay away from them at all costs, they do not know as much as they seem. They tried to cut my cross drilled 2 piece rotors because they said they were warped. They constantly ordered the wrong parts, installed the wrong parts, overpriced items and overquoted labor, took way to long to do jobs. Sold me and payed for the 6-piston Brembo BBK and installed the 4-piston Brembo BBK and told me too bad it was already on the car. The manager (same one who told Audi FU) told the mechanic to get my POS Audi out there so they can work on their own cars.

I was a long time customer (5+ years) and spent over $15k there on 3 cars and moved on after the comment about my car and some of the problems mentioned above. Trust me, started all fine and good and the went down hill.

[wcoyne]

Who do you recommend then?

[Akrion]

Audi pulled their sponsorship after the manager got in a big fight with them and they shut down their motorsport program and the mechanics and engineers all left and they moved away from Audi. I would stay away from them at all costs, they do not know as much as they seem. They tried to cut my cross drilled 2 piece rotors because they said they were warped. They constantly ordered the wrong parts, installed the wrong parts, overpriced items and overquoted labor, took way to long to do jobs. Sold me and payed for the 6-piston Brembo BBK and installed the 4-piston Brembo BBK and told me too bad it was already on the car. The manager (same one who told Audi FU) told the mechanic to get my POS Audi out there so they can work on their own cars.

I was a long time customer (5+ years) and spent over $15k there on 3 cars and moved on after the comment about my car and some of the problems mentioned above. Trust me, started all fine and good and the went down hill.

May I ask when was the last time you had to deal with them? We have few very positive reviews and 1 negative ... I am looking into GIAC and Champion are the only shop I know that can do it and is located @ a reasonable drive from me.

[wcoyne]

Champion does fine with the GIAC. They from what they have told me will not order anything from another company because most are competitors. They said they would install anything I want and only charged me for one hour but it took them around 2-1/2.

[FlaS4]

May I ask when was the last time you had to deal with them? We have few very positive reviews and 1 negative ... I am looking into GIAC and Champion are the only shop I know that can do it and is located @ a reasonable drive from me.

The last time I went there was 3 years ago.

I know a lot of people have left since then including their parts manager, and Mark who was one of the few holdovers from the motorsport team as he opened his own shop. The main problem was the operations manager (who is one of the owners sons and the one I mentioned in my previous post), as he would rather play with his Ferrari and Porches and finds Audi owners and I quote "cheap". That is why they don't really work on Audi's that much anymore as he preferred to deal with Ferrari and Porches because the owners would come dropped their car off and say, "do everything and call me when it's done". My father who took his car there too became good friends with the parts manager and also did business with them . Their business slowed because of such customer service and the decline of customers.

With that said, things may have changed and with the new B8's brought a new type of customer or trying to move back into Audi's. Since they are the only GIAC dealer in South Florida then I guess it would your best bet to go to Champion to get your tune. It's hard to mess up loading a tune. And since the only mods out right now for B8 S4's are mostly bolt-ons it doesnt matter which shop you take it to as that is stuff you can do in your own garage, it just comes down to which shop you find to have the most reasonable price at the customer service and attitude you expect. I just commented on this thread to share my experiences and point out the fact that they don't have their motorsport team anymore as some suggested that that was the reason they chose to go to Champion for work (they do work with Rebel Rock racing as of this current racing season but it's not a exclusive or sponsored/factory backed Champion team).

In reality most of the shops I have been too aren't that great customer service wise but they were Audi specific and charged a lower price per hour. There are several shops in South Florida, USP in Coral springs, Novitech in Tamiami, German Motoring in Coral Gables, and Wolfcars in South Miami, all of whom I've dealt with.

Now I invested in some tools and jackstands and I do everything myself in my own garage and I'm a mechanical engineering student. I know that everyone is not mechanically inclined or have the time to do their own stuff.

[4LoKo]

Yay Giac

[Akrion]

Yay Giac

Ok ... so you just got a GIAC tune ... how about some info/review ... "yay" does not do much for this thread :)

[jpsimon]

blake simon

are you my cousin?

[Tyrnnus]

Ok ... so you just got a GIAC tune ... how about some info/review ... "yay" does not do much for this thread :)

First impression is that this tune is great. Pulled onto the road from the shop and spun all 4 tires on dry pavement.

[MeteorS4Ti]

So I've had the tune now for 2 weeks and decided that its not for me. I don't know if I'm having a problem with my software, but every time I drive it, it takes too much time for the software to adapt (still after 2 weeks of driving the car hard). Basically, to me, "Is the car fast?" Yes, very. "Does it feel like its worth $1200-1400?" Unfortunately, no. I would say 70-80% of my driving its definitely noticeably quicker, BUT no way it makes 400whp. MAYBE after my long drives towards the end or after restarting the car after a long drive it does feel quicker, but 400whp quick? I'm not sure. I know you guys are going to say to get the car dynoed but the car doesn't WOW me. Maybe a little towards the end when I feel it at its full potential. To me its not worth another $125-150 to see numbers, because no matter what the car just doesn't impress me as much as I wanted it to. Just my 2 cents...

[Retrospect]

So I've had the tune now for 2 weeks and decided that its not for me. I don't know if I'm having a problem with my software, but every time I drive it, it takes too much time for the software to adapt (still after 2 weeks of driving the car hard). Basically, to me, "Is the car fast?" Yes, very. "Does it feel like its worth $1200-1400?" Unfortunately, no. I would say 70-80% of my driving its definitely noticeably quicker, BUT no way it makes 400whp. MAYBE after my long drives towards the end or after restarting the car after a long drive it does feel quicker, but 400whp quick? I'm not sure. I know you guys are going to say to get the car dynoed but the car doesn't WOW me. Maybe a little towards the end when I feel it at its full potential. To me its not worth another $125-150 to see numbers, because no matter what the car just doesn't impress me as much as I wanted it to. Just my 2 cents...

You can probably get a refund, it hasn't been 30 days yet right?

Thinking of switching tunes or no?

Maybe you should try switching between stock and pump lol.

[Akrion]

So I've had the tune now for 2 weeks and decided that its not for me. I don't know if I'm having a problem with my software, but every time I drive it, it takes too much time for the software to adapt (still after 2 weeks of driving the car hard). Basically, to me, "Is the car fast?" Yes, very. "Does it feel like its worth $1200-1400?" Unfortunately, no. I would say 70-80% of my driving its definitely noticeably quicker, BUT no way it makes 400whp. MAYBE after my long drives towards the end or after restarting the car after a long drive it does feel quicker, but 400whp quick? I'm not sure. I know you guys are going to say to get the car dynoed but the car doesn't WOW me. Maybe a little towards the end when I feel it at its full potential. To me its not worth another $125-150 to see numbers, because no matter what the car just doesn't impress me as much as I wanted it to. Just my 2 cents...

On the AWE/GIAC site the numbers are always quoted in combination with the AWE Intake & Exhaust ... do you think those would make the "feel" of the tune different?

[dgszweda]

On the AWE/GIAC site the numbers are always quoted in combination with the AWE Intake & Exhaust ... do you think those would make the "feel" of the tune different?

Not that much of a difference. I wonder if you have the tune properly done? I will get mine on Wednesday, I will let you know what I feel.

[Akrion]

Not that much of a difference. I wonder if you have the tune properly done? I will get mine on Wednesday, I will let you know what I feel.

Since I am still seriously considering GIAC I would love to hear your initial impression. Keep us posted!

[Ray Khan]

Since I am still seriously considering GIAC I would love to hear your initial impression. Keep us posted!

You have to set your expectations properly. This isn't a turbo car where the low and mid-range improvement will be very pronounced. In the case of the 3.0T the majority of the gain is after 5500 RPM. That means for only 1500 RPM do you really "feel" much more power. Since first gear is shortest, it's hard to tell the difference in that last 1500 RPM. Even second gear is short enough that it's hard to feel. It's really in 3rd gear where you can enjoy the extra power put how often are you there going to redline? There is definitely more power in the mid range but it feels sort of like what you'd expect from software for a naturally aspirated engine. Now couple that with the fact that the motor is so smooth and you really get an effect that is not so obvious. I have a pretty boring commute so I can't get into the power much at all. I hoe AWE/GIAC do a pulley so we can get some more mid-range power that we can feel and use more often.

[Akrion]

You have to set your expectations properly. This isn't a turbo car where the low and mid-range improvement will be very pronounced. In the case of the 3.0T the majority of the gain is after 5500 RPM. That means for only 1500 RPM do you really "feel" much more power. Since first gear is shortest, it's hard to tell the difference in that last 1500 RPM. Even second gear is short enough that it's hard to feel. It's really in 3rd gear where you can enjoy the extra power put how often are you there going to redline? There is definitely more power in the mid range but it feels sort of like what you'd expect from software for a naturally aspirated engine. Now couple that with the fact that the motor is so smooth and you really get an effect that is not so obvious. I have a pretty boring commute so I can't get into the power much at all. I hoe AWE/GIAC do a pulley so we can get some more mid-range power that we can feel and use more often.

Thanks for your input. My expectations overall are not that high these days :) I do not think I will be disappointed since I will do almost all of my tunes at the same time in one install ...

[MeteorS4Ti]

On the AWE/GIAC site the numbers are always quoted in combination with the AWE Intake & Exhaust ... do you think those would make the "feel" of the tune different?

Akrion, this is what I saw on AZ (car had 91 octane tune, OEM stock exhaust, AWE intake) and pulled 404whp. That is what I was hoping to get and at least in my opinion the car doesn't feel like a 400whp at all. Maybe ~350whp but no where near the 400whp I wanted/kind of paid for... Thankfully Champion is willing to refund my money and I will chose to do that, unfortunately. I really wanted this tune to WOW me and at the end of the day it is not night and day to me...

[MeteorS4Ti]

Maybe you should try switching between stock and pump lol.

Trust me. I have. 1. Can I tell a difference? Yes. 2. Is it $1200+ worth difference? No way. 3. Could my tune have been not properly installed? I don't know...

Everyone I have given a ride (all huge car guys) said to get rid of the tune. And I agree..

I ran a buddies E60 M5 (stock) and got ass raped from the start to finish (30-110 roll)

I know the M5 is V10 and probably would kill me top end but it wasn't even a race form 30mph... Even with 400whp our cars can't keep up with M5 at all?

[Akrion]

Akrion, this is what I saw on AZ (car had 91 octane tune, OEM stock exhaust, AWE intake) and pulled 404whp. That is what I was hoping to get and at least in my opinion the car doesn't feel like a 400whp at all. Maybe ~350whp but no where near the 400whp I wanted/kind of paid for... Thankfully Champion is willing to refund my money and I will chose to do that, unfortunately. I really wanted this tune to WOW me and at the end of the day it is not night and day to me...

Yeah ... from what you described its night and day compared to what you can read on AZ. I would love someone from GIAC to chime in ... Based on the other tune reviews the enthusiasm and reaction after REVO & APR V1 seem to be way more overwhelming then what we have seen on this particular thread so far ... (assuming that the fan/brand supporters or REVO/APR ware not overly positive just because of their particular brand preference/support)

[Matt427]

I just got the GIAC tune a few days ago. Car is 100% stock 6MT otherwise. I'm impressed. I did not do a dyno but I noticed an immediate, whiplash-inducing difference during passing at highway engine speeds (3500-5000 RPM).

Another thing I have noticed is more aggressive throttle response in Dynamic mode; just a light tap on the pedal can cause an instantaneous, "head-meet-headrest" launch now. This difference got even stronger in the subsequent days, I assume as a result of adaptation.

I can't say whether the tune would really be worth $1300 to everybody, but I have a hard time believing that any other mod could make this much difference in acceleration performance.

Just to be clear: for real-world driving there is near zero change in performance at gentle driving (city) speeds; but a dramatically stronger acceleration compared to stock when passing on the highway. So, you might see a few tenths off the 1/4 mile time, but it feels like getting from 50mph -> 80mph+ in an instant is what this tune is all about.

[helix139]

Trust me. I have. 1. Can I tell a difference? Yes. 2. Is it $1200+ worth difference? No way. 3. Could my tune have been not properly installed? I don't know...

Everyone I have given a ride (all huge car guys) said to get rid of the tune. And I agree..

I ran a buddies E60 M5 (stock) and got ass raped from the start to finish (30-110 roll)

I know the M5 is V10 and probably would kill me top end but it wasn't even a race form 30mph... Even with 400whp our cars can't keep up with M5 at all?

If I were you I'd take some logs and post them.

[tsivas27]

If I were you I'd take some logs and post them.

+1

something doesn't sound right.

logs will show boost, bypass, timing, etc.

you should also scan the car for codes.

[Tyrnnus]

I got my 2012 MT done on Wednesday before a road trip. Do I feel a difference? Yes. I pulled out of the tuner's lot and spun all 4 tires before track control kicked in. I feel this tune any time I step on it. Is it worth the 1250 I paid? That is a big yes. If you consider if you even get 50 hp gain (butt Dino says more to me), thats 25 bucks an hp. I challenge you to show me where you can get that kind of gain per dollar spent.

As a couple of others have posted, log your car to make sure you don't have something else causing an issue.

[Retrospect]

Trust me. I have. 1. Can I tell a difference? Yes. 2. Is it $1200+ worth difference? No way. 3. Could my tune have been not properly installed? I don't know...

Everyone I have given a ride (all huge car guys) said to get rid of the tune. And I agree..

I ran a buddies E60 M5 (stock) and got ass raped from the start to finish (30-110 roll)

I know the M5 is V10 and probably would kill me top end but it wasn't even a race form 30mph... Even with 400whp our cars can't keep up with M5 at all?

I know you're getting a refund but tell me a performance upgrade that's worth $1200 that'll give you the same amount of power. For that M5.. ierno man there was a video of a GIAC tuned S4 in Korea beating a stock M3 so go figure.

+1 on getting logs bro! And codes?

Yeah ... from what you described its night and day compared to what you can read on AZ. I would love someone from GIAC to chime in ... Based on the other tune reviews the enthusiasm and reaction after REVO & APR V1 seem to be way more overwhelming then what we have seen on this particular thread so far ... (assuming that the fan/brand supporters or REVO/APR ware not overly positive just because of their particular brand preference/support)

Could be.

I got my 2012 MT done on Wednesday before a road trip. Do I feel a difference? Yes. I pulled out of the tuner's lot and spun all 4 tires before track control kicked in. I feel this tune any time I step on it. Is it worth the 1250 I paid? That is a big yes. If you consider if you even get 50 hp gain (butt Dino says more to me), thats 25 bucks an hp. I challenge you to show me where you can get that kind of gain per dollar spent.

As a couple of others have posted, log your car to make sure you don't have something else causing an issue.

Great to hear.

[MeteorS4Ti]

I know you're getting a refund but tell me a performance upgrade that's worth $1200 that'll give you the same amount of power. For that M5.. ierno man there was a video of a GIAC tuned S4 in Korea beating a stock M3 so go figure.

+1 on getting logs bro! And codes?

It basically comes down to that the power is not at its full potential 100% of the time when I'm driving it. I've vboxed the car and its proven that the car is faster. Don't get me wrong, the car is very fast. But its not making me forget about how much I spent. I wish I could have it dynoed by Champion but I'm not having another shop dyno it and be out another $150 to just see numbers that I bought. I just know for a fact the car is not putting down 400whp.

[MeteorS4Ti]

Yeah ... from what you described its night and day compared to what you can read on AZ. I would love someone from GIAC to chime in ... Based on the other tune reviews the enthusiasm and reaction after REVO & APR V1 seem to be way more overwhelming then what we have seen on this particular thread so far ... (assuming that the fan/brand supporters or REVO/APR ware not overly positive just because of their particular brand preference/support)

BTW, I spoke to GIAC yesterday. They told me at the absolute latest the car should be fully adapted within a week.

[S-Fore]

unless you do some logging to see if there is a problem, it seems that the issue lies in expectations of the tune. I was told that different ecu p/n's have shown better gains over others, who knows. Despite what I've read here based on others opinions of tune(s), it's not absolute raw power at your disposal. The tune shows over 5K and at that it's hard to get a real feel of it below 3rd gear. Whether you feel it's worth the money or not, that's a personal opinion, but if you do plan to keep modding your car you are going to need a tune for decent gains. While people are debating the tunes to death, they are arguing over a mere 5-7% in variation. A percentage no one will notice. In the end the best advice that I've read, is to get a tune from the company you feel most comfortable with.

It basically comes down to that the power is not at its full potential 100% of the time when I'm driving it. I've vboxed the car and its proven that the car is faster. Don't get me wrong, the car is very fast. But its not making me forget about how much I spent. I wish I could have it dynoed by Champion but I'm not having another shop dyno it and be out another $150 to just see numbers that I bought. I just know for a fact the car is not putting down 400whp.

[wcoyne]

It basically comes down to that the power is not at its full potential 100% of the time when I'm driving it. I've vboxed the car and its proven that the car is faster. Don't get me wrong, the car is very fast. But its not making me forget about how much I spent. I wish I could have it dynoed by Champion but I'm not having another shop dyno it and be out another $150 to just see numbers that I bought. I just know for a fact the car is not putting down 400whp.

Champion told me they could dyno my car if I wanted and its 150 for 3 pulls.

[FlaS4]

Champion told me they could dyno my car if I wanted and its 150 for 3 pulls.

Any other awd dyno shop will charge $85

[wcoyne]

USP quoted me the same price for dyno

[MeteorS4Ti]

Champion told me they could dyno my car if I wanted and its 150 for 3 pulls.

Are you sure? They told me they only have a Dynojet and it won't work on our cars... They said to use a Mustang dyno (also GIAC themselves told me this)

[Retrospect]

Im glad you like the Software bud!

Next up... the AWE Exhaust system :) We have a few coming in the next few weeks... Contact me for more info!

Alex lol, read his posts for the rest of the thread.. he's going in for a refund.

[Alex@TAG]

Alex lol, read his posts for the rest of the thread.. he's going in for a refund.

LOL! Oops! hahahah

[wcoyne]

Are you sure? They told me they only have a Dynojet and it won't work on our cars... They said to use a Mustang dyno (also GIAC themselves told me this)

Yeah when i was waiting on my car I talked to them about it and they said they could but it would be another day because they had a 911 turbo being tuned on it that day.

[FlaS4]

USP quoted me the same price for dyno

I dont think USP has an AWD dyno.

I went to Machine's Gone Wild (an Evo shop) in Miami and they charged me $80 w/AFR and I got 4 pulls and $105 to rent it for the hour. And anther quoted me $70 w/AFR.

Also which dyno you use doesnt matter Dynojet vs Mustang dynos as they both use inertia to simulate a fixed load on the car but the Mustang also uses an eddy current brake to provide a variable load. All dynos are different and can be set up and calibrated different, none are the correct way but people argue that Mustang dynos are most "real world". Dynos are good for measuring deltas and same dyno, back to back comparisons.

[ENV²]

Trust me. I have. 1. Can I tell a difference? Yes. 2. Is it $1200+ worth difference? No way. 3. Could my tune have been not properly installed? I don't know...

Everyone I have given a ride (all huge car guys) said to get rid of the tune. And I agree..

I ran a buddies E60 M5 (stock) and got ass raped from the start to finish (30-110 roll)

I know the M5 is V10 and probably would kill me top end but it wasn't even a race form 30mph... Even with 400whp our cars can't keep up with M5 at all?

Have much experience with E60 M5. Had one for a while last year. It was a friend of mines. We raced a few times and played around on "closed courses" all while fully stock and he could not walk away from me at all. He would win in empty straights but not walk me like I was standing still. Im a better driver than he is so on the twisties I would be on his ass or walking him. Then again my car seems to be a factory freak according to the guys at Eurotech. To be honest my car feels as if it never tapers the boost off. I never got any feeling of loss of power in upper RPM range and when I do spirited driving for a period of time my exhaust sounds louder and the car seems a lot more "angry" Maybe your tune did not change everything. Get it redone.

[MeteorS4Ti]

It has to be that. I drove it again 150 miles across Alligator Alley (connects SW and SE parts of South Fla) and not once did the car feel much faster. Like I said before sometimes I can feel a very nice difference but 70-80% of my driving the software isn't that noticeable; maybe by 20-30hp over stock IMVHO.

Also my friend with the M5 drove my car and my other buddy drove his M5. It was absolutely embarrassing...

[blazeblunts4]

probably in stock mode