my car runs like crap on 94 octane

[Dj_QuiK]

Hi y'all,
Im flashed with the 91 and 93 programs from APR. Ever since ive had it, ive been fillin up with the 94 octane fuel available from one of the gas stations here. I love the power and the pull!
This is the first winter im going through with a flahsed ecu, i figured since i don't need all that extra power in the snow and slippery conditions (and 91 gas is cheaper), i reprogrammed it to the the 91 octane program. I've been running on this file for 3 months now, the power is noticeably lower but ive been cool with it. But now, we've been having one of the mildest winters to date, so i decided i'd fill up and run 94 again. Switching from the 91 to 94, i've noticed my cold starts have been harder, my idle has been rougher, and the acceleration is not as smooth as the 91 program. Although the car pulls harder, its been running rough in general.

Its important to note that the 94 fuel that the gas station sells here is up to 10% ethanol, and that the 91 is theShell V-power ( which is 0 ethanol). I figured the ethanol may have something to do with it, but i just wanted to know your thoughts? In the worst case, am i doing damage to my engine running the 94 file? Any input is greatly appreciated!

p.s. all my important maintenance items are up to date (updated coils, dv, pcv, oil change 1000 miles ago, new fuel filter, cam follower)

[Sreddington]

Hello I am running a stage 2 93 octane unitronic software. I run 100 octane on occasion with no problems. Also here in NJ our shell 93 v-power claims it might be up to 10% ethanol and I have never had an issue.

Edit- when i run 100 octane my idle seems the same if not better and I feel better throttle response.

[hightest]

Very interesting. I'm in Edmonton as well, with APR stage 1 and big injectors. Stock simulation file, 91 file and 93 file. I fill up at Husky/Mohawk to run 94, and Esso or Shell for 91. I've noticed harder starts as well after running the 91 file for a while and then refilling with 94 and switching back to 93 file. It seems to settle down after a few starts and always runs smoothly, but maybe your problems are a sign of things to come for me. Subscribing!

[Jay-Bee]

Fellow Albertan here, Husky/Mohawk 94 is worthless crap. Stick with Shell, and to be honest, I would run the 94 file through winter and check some logs, i seriously doubt it's going to pull much timing.

I work at the Shell oil sands ;) the 91 octane rating on V-Power is not generous enough.

[jimrobbington]

A lot of companies add extra chemicals to their gas in the winter. Anticoagulants and the like. Could have something to do with it.

[Dj_QuiK]

Thanks for all your replies folks! So are you guys saying that the 94 they sell really isnt 94? And jay bee, you thimk
I should run the 93 file on 91 shell fuel? Lol and jim thays what im thinking too, lots of additives and crap our engines dont like...i dont know where else i can get 93 octane around here though...

[Operator]

If Shell only sells 91, ten I'd only run the 91 program. If you can run logging to see what Shell 91 does on a 93 file, give it a go, if not, just go with 91.

[Dj_QuiK]

If Shell only sells 91, ten I'd only run the 91 program. If you can run logging to see what Shell 91 does on a 93 file, give it a go, if not, just go with 91.

excuse my noobness, but what would I be looking for exactly when i pull logs with regard to the timing? what would be considered "safe"?

[Schweini]

I know I've brought this up before, but I was told Shells V-Power 91 Oct CAN be run on a 93 Oct file. APR themselves have said this to me:

Yes you should be fine. Most of the software nowadays is self adaptive as well. It will always pull timing when it needs to.

We have a few customers that use the v-power fuel & the cars run perfectly fine.

Yes we've done it and have more than a dozen of them using 91 v-power. They have no issues till today. Once it get really hot in the summer, I would go back to the 94 since it runs the best when it's really outside.

If u want to give me a call tomorrow, I can explain to you alot easier on the phone rather than trying to type it out.

I live in Canada as well, and I was running Petro Canadas Ultra 94 and it was crap compared to Shells 91 V-Power.

Jay-Bee, what are your takes on this?

[Dj_QuiK]

Schweini, so have you used the 91 on the 93 program?

[jimrobbington]

I have also run "93" timing on shell 91. But it was only good below 40° temperatures. 20° out was the perfect temp to run "93" timing on 91 gas. Problem being, I can't switch timing myself, and Colorado winters will have weeks of 50-60° weather, so I just put it back to the 91 timing until I get an sps switcher for REVO.

[Schweini]

Schweini, so have you used the 91 on the 93 program?

I have yes, for a few weeks. But I haven't ever since. Come this spring, I'll be testing it out more.

I have also run "93" timing on shell 91. But it was only good below 40° temperatures. 20° out was the perfect temp to run "93" timing on 91 gas. Problem being, I can't switch timing myself, and Colorado winters will have weeks of 50-60° weather, so I just put it back to the 91 timing until I get an sps switcher for REVO.

How did it feel in terms of aggression with the 91 Oct? To me, tbh, the 91 felt better. Maybe just because our 94 here is shit

[jimrobbington]

You know how your car feels like it is running perfectly when it's cold out, at just the right temperature?

when I have my timing set for 93, and it's 20 deg out, it's just like that, but a noticable step more aggressive. Maybe registering 5-10 hp on a dyno, but the butt dyno notices.

[Schweini]

You know how your car feels like it is running perfectly when it's cold out, at just the right temperature?

when I have my timing set for 93, and it's 20 deg out, it's just like that, but a noticable step more aggressive. Maybe registering 5-10 hp on a dyno, but the butt dyno notices.

Nice, I'm glad to hear about this. I was concerned for a while about doing it, hearing your stint and what APR has told me is making feel much better. Can't wait for spring

[Dj_QuiK]

I have yes, for a few weeks. But I haven't ever since. Come this spring, I'll be testing it out more.



How did it feel in terms of aggression with the 91 Oct? To me, tbh, the 91 felt better. Maybe just because our 94 here is shit

lol my exact thoughtS! 91 just feels a LOT smoother than the 93 program. Why would you wait for spring though? conditions right now are perfect to run the 93 program on 91 fuel.

btw, whats the worst thing that can happen if there was anything at all? Im assuming the ECU will just adapt ?

[Schweini]

lol my exact thoughtS! 91 just feels a LOT smoother than the 93 program. Why would you wait for spring though? conditions right now are perfect to run the 93 program on 91 fuel.

btw, whats the worst thing that can happen if there was anything at all? Im assuming the ECU will just adapt ?

I think why our 91 feels so much smoother is because Shells V-Power is so clean compared to our crap 94 through Petro or Pioneer. What I meant by waiting for spring was to test it out better since the fuels now have all the winter crap mixed in them. But you yes, you're right about the optimal conditions atm.

btw, whats the worst thing that can happen if there was anything at all? Im assuming the ECU will just adapt ?

Nothing from what the rep told me. Our cars will adapt and pull proper timing

[Dj_QuiK]

I think why our 91 feels so much smoother is because Shells V-Power is so clean compared to our crap 94 through Petro or Pioneer. What I meant by waiting for spring was to test it out better since the fuels now have all the winter crap mixed in them. But you yes, you're right about the optimal conditions atm.



Nothing from what the rep told me. Our cars will adapt and pull proper timing

K, I will try it on my next fill up

[Dj_QuiK]

You know how your car feels like it is running perfectly when it's cold out, at just the right temperature?

when I have my timing set for 93, and it's 20 deg out, it's just like that, but a noticable step more aggressive. Maybe registering 5-10 hp on a dyno, but the butt dyno notices.

Quick update:

I filled up with the 91 v-power tonight and i have confirmed this...its just a tad less than 20 degrees F outside. THe car feels stronger and more responsive while running the 93 program with 91 octane Shell fuel. Definitely smoother than when i was filling up with 94 octane. I do not notice any detrimental effects of doing so, thus far. So, if anyone is wondering how 91 octane would run on a 93 file, im saying its ok, based on my experience so far.

[Schweini]

It's been smooth sailing for me here as well. I couldn't wait, and just went ahead and did it. The Shell V-Power I would have to agree with Jay-Bee and say the 91 Oct really isn't a generous enough rating. But if it keeps the prices down, I'm all for it.

I'm glad you're liking it . I just switched over to Shell Rotella T6 Oil (can find it at Canadian Tire) and have to say the car hasn't felt better. Perhaps you should give this a shot next oil change?

[Dj_QuiK]

Lol im
Already running it! Its great fuckin oil! Raised my mpg at least 2 points! I was averaging 27 mpg with the t6 and v power...i have no clue why i came back to huskys 94

[Schweini]

lol! you're a step ahead of me. Yeah it is good shit. I'm glad I found it


ewwww, Husky.... Really?

[Dj_QuiK]

Took me 2 days to find out where i could buy one and i finally found it at walmart. Totally worth it! Half the price of the motil oil ive been running. What do you think our change interval should be on this one? Apparently this isnt full synthetic...

And yeah husky...i cant anywhere else that wud have 93!

[Jay-Bee]

What do you think our change interval should be on this one? Apparently this isnt full synthetic...

I was gonna do 8K kms my first run on it, should be close to that after my trip to Fernie over the next few days, after that I might set myself at 10K kms depending on how i've driven.

It is as synthetic as the name lets you believe, it is a group 3/hydro-cracked oil with detergent additives and friction modifiers. No different than most other "synthetic" oils.

While I do like to lean towards a Group 4 /PAO base stock oil, i don't think we will have any issues.

[Dj_QuiK]

I was gonna do 8K kms my first run on it, should be close to that after my trip to Fernie over the next few days, after that I might set myself at 10K kms depending on how i've driven.

It is as synthetic as the name lets you believe, it is a group 3/hydro-cracked oil with detergent additives and friction modifiers. No different than most other "synthetic" oils.

While I do like to lean towards a Group 4 /PAO base stock oil, i don't think we will have any issues.

I normally did 8k even on a group 4 oil like motul, good to know i can do the same with the t6! saves me even more moolah! Have safe trip to fernie jay bee, watch out fof those avalanches!

[Jay-Bee]

I normally did 8k even on a group 4 oil like motul, good to know i can do the same with the t6! saves me even more moolah! Have safe trip to fernie jay bee, watch out fof those avalanches!

you can go well beyond that on Motul, it's approved for the Euro extended drain intervals, usually something like 30K kms with a filter change half way... but that's just crazy.

I once "forgot" and ran some Motul 8100 5w40 to nearly 13K kms, didn't look or perform any different than when i did it at 10K, don't worry that was my old 2.0 golf! old 8 valve could take the beating.

I haven't dumped out my first fill of Rotella, but I got a few boys in the CAT truck shops up here that could probably do some oil analysis for free whenever I want as we have it on-site and it's just as in depth as that Blackstone lab stuff all over BITOG forums.

Pretty stoked to get out riding! Haven't been out since xmas in kelowna.

[Dj_QuiK]

you can go well beyond that on Motul, it's approved for the Euro extended drain intervals, usually something like 30K kms with a filter change half way... but that's just crazy.

I once "forgot" and ran some Motul 8100 5w40 to nearly 13K kms, didn't look or perform any different than when i did it at 10K, don't worry that was my old 2.0 golf! old 8 valve could take the beating.

I haven't dumped out my first fill of Rotella, but I got a few boys in the CAT truck shops up here that could probably do some oil analysis for free whenever I want as we have it on-site and it's just as in depth as that Blackstone lab stuff all over BITOG forums.

Pretty stoked to get out riding! Haven't been out since xmas in kelowna.

30k? thats just insane! i'd never do that! but once, i did "forget" as well and went about 10k...motul is damn good oil, just so expensive.

anyways, you got pm regarding the analysis!

lol last time i went out riding i ended up with a concussion...fun times indeed haha

[Schweini]

Make sure you PM me too Jay-Bee. I'd love to see that analysis if you don't mind!

I plan on going 10km myself with the Rotella. Excited

[Dj_QuiK]

Make sure you PM me too Jay-Bee. I'd love to see that analysis if you don't mind!

I plan on going 10km myself with the Rotella. Excited

hey schweini, hows your car running with the 91 so far?

[flyingfish2626]

My car runs great with APR 93 octane program with 91 octane fuel, but I am at 5K feet, which makes a big difference. Currently running Shell 91. I will definitely switch back to the 91 octane program when it gets warm out, but right now the car is loving it.

[Schweini]

hey schweini, hows your car running with the 91 so far?

Beautifully. It doesn't hesitate and feels proper. As Jim was stating above, he was spot on with the feeling.

I am however noticing with the Rotella, the car has a deeper tone to it upon acceleration. much deeper than what the Castrol was sounding. I would think for some, it would bother them, but I'm actually loving it.

My car runs great with APR 93 octane program with 91 octane fuel, but I am at 5K feet, which makes a big difference. Currently running Shell 91. I will definitely switch back to the 91 octane program when it gets warm out, but right now the car is loving it.

Yeah that 5k feet makes a vast difference. Good to hear though others are doing it and aren't experiencing any issues

[Dj_QuiK]

I get that same rumbling feelin in the engine too! And its
Much more responsive.

When do you guys think it would be time to switch back? Wre averaging about 3 degrees celsius right now...

[Schweini]

I get that same rumbling feelin in the engine too! And its
Much more responsive.

When do you guys think it would be time to switch back? Wre averaging about 3 degrees celsius right now...

APR told me in the summer I should switch back. I personally am going to switch back to 94 around 15-20 Degrees

[jimrobbington]

I started to feel a decent loss of power around the 40° range when my timing was advanced above my fuel grade. 20° range or lower was optimal.

JR

[Schweini]

Thanks JR, the experience is appreciated

[hightest]

I tried it out today. I've been running Shell 91 V-power for a few tanks over the last month on APR 91 file. The car has been running strong, and smooth.
My seat of the pants would say that the Shell 91 on apr 91 file is smoother and stronger than Mohawk 94 on apr 91.
But today I filled it up on Shell 91 and thought I'd try the 93 file.
I don't know what checking logs means or how to do it, but the car does not feel faster to me with the Shell 91 on the 93 file.
The Husky/Mohawk 94 with the 93 file feels faster. Maybe not as smooth, but faster and rowdier.

Overall, I think I'm going to stick with Shell 91 and run the 91 file. It's been the best "feel" and the most fun and drivable.
Remember, this is all seat of the pants without any VAGCOM, logging, dynos, or anything.

[Schweini]

I tried it out today. I've been running Shell 91 V-power for a few tanks over the last month on APR 91 file. The car has been running strong, and smooth.
My seat of the pants would say that the Shell 91 on apr 91 file is smoother and stronger than Mohawk 94 on apr 91.
But today I filled it up on Shell 91 and thought I'd try the 93 file.
I don't know what checking logs means or how to do it, but the car does not feel faster to me with the Shell 91 on the 93 file.
The Husky/Mohawk 94 with the 93 file feels faster. Maybe not as smooth, but faster and rowdier.

Overall, I think I'm going to stick with Shell 91 and run the 91 file. It's been the best "feel" and the most fun and drivable.
Remember, this is all seat of the pants without any VAGCOM, logging, dynos, or anything.

The 94 on a 93 file will always be more aggressive than a 91 on a 93 file. The only real point with running shells 91 on a 93 file is if you can't get 94 readily. That, and it's a much cleaner fuel

[Dj_QuiK]

The 94 on a 93 file will always be more aggressive than a 91 on a 93 file. The only real point with running shells 91 on a 93 file is if you can't get 94 readily. That, and it's a much cleaner fuel

Yep totally agree. And really the only best time to run 91 on 93 program is when the temp is at least -10 celsius, which JR has confirmed, but he does have an advantage of altitude as well.