CXRacing (ebay) FMIC review

[heywier427]

im doing this but with a different size core, still and ebay core, and still from crxracing.

im now usp lower, and by the pictures on thier site, a good amount of cutting is needed on the lower to get it to fit. possibly the grilles as well.

i asked if they would swap the intercooler to one that has the inlet/outlet centered on the core, in hopes of not having the ac line connections push the ic out so far. i know id have to take some material off the pipes to make up for the raise in the inlet/outlets, but that wont be hard. im ordering it today, and will hopefully have good results to post this weekend.

this is the intercooler im going to use:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Fr...item20b532f7b1

i know im loosing an inch, but its better than the side mount, and if i decide to go bt, all i have to do is get a better intercooler.

go k03 go!!!

[EBG 18T]

Define low-density. Meaning the fins between the plates? Does anyone read anymore? I don't care what it looks like because I am swapping it out for a USP!

I wasn't refering nessisarily to your plastic cutting skills. Some of the pics posted recently could use better finishing work. Not my car so I could care less. Just a general comment.

Core density is the number of fins in a given length. The core pictured is a low density core. A high density core has about 2x the the number of fins. Smaller low density cores are fine for stock k03 cars, the higher quality kits tend to fit with little to no trimming

[McCheese]

planning on getting this, hopefully i can modify the inlet and outlets to where i wont have to trim little to any of the bumper and grilles

[vteckiller2000]

I wasn't refering nessisarily to your plastic cutting skills. Some of the pics posted recently could use better finishing work. Not my car so I could care less. Just a general comment.

Core density is the number of fins in a given length. The core pictured is a low density core. A high density core has about 2x the the number of fins. Smaller low density cores are fine for stock k03 cars, the higher quality kits tend to fit with little to no trimming

You specifically said "If you guys are going to trim the plastic atleast finish the plastic edges so it looks smoother". <<- I copypasta'd that directly from your post.

Also, how can you tell if it is high or low density core? Honestly the pics I posted are shit from my phone. I am not saying it is a nice core by any means, but it is probably higher density (in regard to fin density) than you think.

EDIT: I just went out and measured, the core has 14 fins per inch and it should be noted that the fins are staggered in rows which from what I remember is one of the hallmarks of the nicer big name cores.

[vteckiller2000]

planning on getting this, hopefully i can modify the inlet and outlets to where i wont have to trim little to any of the bumper and grilles

If you use a USP lower you stand a good chance of being able to do that. You may need to use longer upper mounts to lower it though, but that is not a big deal.

[ray_B6]

since i bought my car I've been thinking about buying this kit, searched pages and pages of google with no results....thanks for posting this...I like how CX racing actually show pics of the kit ON A B6 and not some random car lol....I also like the intake they make, looks like a true "cold air" intake.

[heywier427]

if you look at the pictures of the sale, you will see that the intercooler is practicly slamed as low as it can go to the usp.

the space between the rebar and the usp lower is 7.75'' the intercooler is 7'' but they dont take into account the .5''s of mounting tabs, top and bottom.

if anything, you would need to raise the intercooler and suck it closer to the ac condenser.

[AutoUnionLov3r]

What I get from this thread is a comparison of the OEM intercooler(no bigger than the lid of a shoe box) vs this cheap option for an upgraded core and the chance to build off of this eBay FMIC. People stop threadjacking this man's post, he's not saying his FMIC is better than the units you spend $1,200 for, he's trying to review this CHEAP eBay kit for the budget minded people who hate the factory heat soaked side mount. (yes heat soak does occur on the factory ko3)

[M-Hood]

Yeah, most definitely. I just pulled some metrics from the GPS Gtech:

I didn't launch the car due to the new clutch.

60ft - 1.977
0-60mph - 5.911
1/8th Mile - 9.176@76.01
1/4 Mile 14.448@93.75

Seems pretty stout to me.

Too bad it doesn't really mean anything seeing that it doesn't start the time till your rolling a good amount. Which is why it says 1.977 60 ft time even though you claimed not to "launch" the car.

You specifically said "If you guys are going to trim the plastic atleast finish the plastic edges so it looks smoother". <<- I copypasta'd that directly from your post.

Also, how can you tell if it is high or low density core? Honestly the pics I posted are shit from my phone. I am not saying it is a nice core by any means, but it is probably higher density (in regard to fin density) than you think.

EDIT: I just went out and measured, the core has 14 fins per inch and it should be noted that the fins are staggered in rows which from what I remember is one of the hallmarks of the nicer big name cores.

Did you forget you actually posted the link of the kit you bought which has plenty of pictures of the core? As for the core goes, what really count is what it looks like inside seeing that is what helps pull the heat out of the air passing thru it. How many fins it has on the outside isn't going to do much if there isn't much catching the heat on the inside.

This is what the CXRacing core looks like inside.


This is what the inside of a Garrett core looks like.



Huge difference and the part of the core that actually counts. Putting more fins on the outside isn't going to do anything but make someone think it is a much better core then it actually is. Basically dressing up crap to make it look better.

[vteckiller2000]

The Gtech SS 10hz GPS has a 12" rollout.


I know it is not as "good" as your ER/APR/(insert brand here) $1000+ IC setup. I never claimed it was. It IS better than stock and an option for some people.

For fucks sake...

[M-Hood]

The Gtech SS 10hz GPS has a 12" rollout.


I know it is not as "good" as your ER/APR/(insert brand here) $1000+ IC setup. I never claimed it was. It IS better than stock and an option for some people.

For fucks sake...

No one said you did so not sure what your getting so pissed off for. It is only going to be slightly better then a stock SMIC with a K03 because of the fact that it isn't actually removing all that much more heat out of the air. Only thing you gain is a larger surface area. A good upgraded SMIC is going to work just as well.

It isn't like that company is the first one to offer a cheap priced FMIC for the A4. Other people have also tried the cheap kits and most of those just end up selling it to get a much better kit. A cheap kit might work well during the year when the outside temps are nice and cool, not so much when summer rolls around and the temps are much higher.

[bondar1989]

No one said you did so not sure what your getting so pissed off for. It is only going to be slightly better then a stock SMIC with a K03 because of the fact that it isn't actually removing all that much more heat out of the air. Only thing you gain is a larger surface area. A good upgraded SMIC is going to work just as well.

It isn't like that company is the first one to offer a cheap priced FMIC for the A4. Other people have also tried the cheap kits and most of those just end up selling it to get a much better kit. A cheap kit might work well during the year when the outside temps are nice and cool, not so much when summer rolls around and the temps are much higher.

well said. and I do agree.

[android3000]

i asked if they would swap the intercooler to one that has the inlet/outlet centered on the core, in hopes of not having the ac line connections push the ic out so far.

You can easily cut that ac line away from the core and out of the way so that the ic can sit further in.

[viceprp]

First off, look how the Apr core is decided and tell me how this $1000 core does Jack shit. That core heat soaks during the summer with their stage III kits. I'll do a few logs of my buddies k04 to see if it.can even manage that. Your car isn't the first to run a fmic, especially an eBay kit. There are plenty out there that have logged the heat soak of the k03 on a.summer day. An eBay intercooler is a cosmetic upgrade, nothing more.

[vteckiller2000]

First off, look how the Apr core is decided and tell me how this $1000 core does Jack shit. That core heat soaks during the summer with their stage III kits. I'll do a few logs of my buddies k04 to see if it.can even manage that. Your car isn't the first to run a fmic, especially an eBay kit. There are plenty out there that have logged the heat soak of the k03 on a.summer day. An eBay intercooler is a cosmetic upgrade, nothing more.

Edit: nvm I read it a few times and now it makes sense to me. I suppose I shall log and see. Regardless, IIRC there is at least one b7 guy who seems to be having good results for the cxracing setup.

[vteckiller2000]

No one said you did so not sure what your getting so pissed off for. It is only going to be slightly better then a stock SMIC with a K03 because of the fact that it isn't actually removing all that much more heat out of the air. Only thing you gain is a larger surface area. A good upgraded SMIC is going to work just as well.

It isn't like that company is the first one to offer a cheap priced FMIC for the A4. Other people have also tried the cheap kits and most of those just end up selling it to get a much better kit. A cheap kit might work well during the year when the outside temps are nice and cool, not so much when summer rolls around and the temps are much higher.

I am only pissed because my thread is getting shit on with the talk of how much my ebay setup sucks. I stated that I know it is not as effective as a better core, and that I would upgrade the core if I felt I needed to. I am going to log as soon as I can get my hands on a vag-com so there is actual empirical data for it.

[vteckiller2000]

Clint was using one of these low density styles but a smaller core back in the day and on a 95*F day it was only getting up to 127*F at redline on the third consecutive pull. That is better than the 200*+ temps I have heard of with the stock smic. 65* day he was seeing 71* at redline.

[M-Hood]

I am only pissed because my thread is getting shit on with the talk of how much my ebay setup sucks. I stated that I know it is not as effective as a better core, and that I would upgrade the core if I felt I needed to. I am going to log as soon as I can get my hands on a vag-com so there is actual empirical data for it.

It is a forum and people are giving their opinion/experience in the matter.

[boostedAvant]

It is a forum and people are giving their opinion/experience in the matter.

This. I see your join date was over a year ago. You should have realized by this time the B6 forum is fairly cut throat when it comes to threads like this. People are going to be honest, sometimes it may seem a little brutal. We've all been flamed before man.

[waldo1324]

. We've all been flamed before man.

i have some classic hiroshima threads if youd like to see the carnage....

anyway - im currently asking an even cheaper ebay supplier ( shocker , right ) if i can just get the pipes so i can use my "Fisher Price My First Intercooler"(JDM ebay) core without taking a class in piping welding.

[vteckiller2000]

I don't mind flames, I am used to it. Just trying to keep bias out.

[waldo1324]

I don't mind flames, I am used to it. Just trying to keep bias out.

well im pulling for you on this one as im practically sponsored by Ebay

[heywier427]

You can easily cut that ac line away from the core and out of the way so that the ic can sit further in.

sorry to thread jack, but please explain how this can be done. i cant see where cutting will gain anything.

but now that youve got me thinking, why not just move the entire condenser down?

please photo shop what you would cut and move/bend.

thanks.

[1NaudiA4]

I call BS on this.

Its winter and your in the middle of Iowa.... IOWA!! Do you honestly expect us to believe your experiencing that huge of a difference from installing a FMIC? I'm sure the stock intercooler is sufficient enough in winter that your not having your timing retarded enough to notice a difference.

[vteckiller2000]

I call BS on this.

Its winter and your in the middle of Iowa.... IOWA!! Do you honestly expect us to believe your experiencing that huge of a difference from installing a FMIC? I'm sure the stock intercooler is sufficient enough in winter that your not having your timing retarded enough to notice a difference.

I used to tune my own vehicle when I owned prior GM/Ford muscle cars with superchargers, big cams, etc. I would say I have a decently tuned butt dyno from experience. I can FEEL an increase in the robustness of the torque peak and mid range. Not 50 lb/ft or anything retarded, maybe a 15-20 lb/ft improvement at peak, though the area of the curve feels much larger. I am not saying it is an instant race car, it is an improvement.

[M-Hood]

I used to tune my own vehicle when I owned prior GM/Ford muscle cars with superchargers, big cams, etc. I would say I have a decently tuned butt dyno from experience. I can FEEL an increase in the robustness of the torque peak and mid range. Not 50 lb/ft or anything retarded, maybe a 15-20 lb/ft improvement at peak, though the area of the curve feels much larger. I am not saying it is an instant race car, it is an improvement.

Sorry but a slight decrease in IAT's is not going to net 15-20 tq on a K03, it might gain a little with some changes to the tune.

[vteckiller2000]

Sorry but a slight decrease in IAT's is not going to net 15-20 tq on a K03, it might gain a little with some changes to the tune.

I mean crank TQ, and I was getting audible ping when boosting repeatedly. I would not pin it as something impossible. Plus, isn't this Bosch ecu super-mega-hyper-adaptable and smart?

[vteckiller2000]

Sorry but a slight decrease in IAT's is not going to net 15-20 tq on a K03, it might gain a little with some changes to the tune.

Say for the sake of argument, based on Clint's data I see a decrease of IAT from 150*F to 60*F under the worst circumstances with 30* ambient (Clint's data showed a ~30*F increase in charge temp from ambient at 95*F and a ~7*F increase at 65*F ambient after a run). How much TQ would said 90*F be worth at the crank? Based on this thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...orth-the-money, there would be ~7% increase of lost power per 20* decrease in charge temp. If I apply that to crank torque (275lb/ft as advertised for a basic 2+ car) I come up with ~86 lb/ft recovered which was previously lost due to heat soak of the stock IC. That WOULD be felt by anyone.




(I am making up these figures based on 30* ambient currently, and an estimate of 200*F charge temps on a stage 2+ car on the stock SMIC as read on here in posts about FMICs)

[p8nt]

What I get from this thread is a comparison of the OEM intercooler(no bigger than the lid of a shoe box) vs this cheap option for an upgraded core and the chance to build off of this eBay FMIC. People stop threadjacking this man's post, he's not saying his FMIC is better than the units you spend $1,200 for, he's trying to review this CHEAP eBay kit for the budget minded people who hate the factory heat soaked side mount. (yes heat soak does occur on the factory ko3)

This

So far in this thread: A guy buys a cheap intercooler, installs said intercooler and has a positive report on it. For his efforts he is berated and told he doesn't know what hes talking about and the product is crap by others WHO HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH SAID PRODUCT. Amazing.

Only on the internet...

[M-Hood]

I mean crank TQ, and I was getting audible ping when boosting repeatedly. I would not pin it as something impossible. Plus, isn't this Bosch ecu super-mega-hyper-adaptable and smart?

I was too. The ECU pulls timing back, it doesn't actually add timing on top of what it is already programmed for. So it isn't like the ECU keeps adding more adv timing till it has to pull the timing back.

[vteckiller2000]

I was too. The ECU pulls timing back, it doesn't actually add timing on top of what it is already programmed for. So it isn't like the ECU keeps adding more adv timing till it has to pull the timing back.

You sure about that? Most of the high octane-dependent ecus I have dug into pushes the timing (to a preselected reasonable point of course) until the knock sensor says no, dithering just like the fuel system. I was under the impression the Bosch system specifically was pretty adaptable in that respect.

[M-Hood]

You sure about that? Most of the high octane-dependent ecus I have dug into pushes the timing (to a preselected reasonable point of course) until the knock sensor says no, dithering just like the fuel system. I was under the impression the Bosch system specifically was pretty adaptable in that respect.

Yes to what the tuner has programmed the tune for. But that limit is what the ecu is always trying to run based on what it is reading from some of the sensors like the MAF and IAT sensor. If you run 100 octane fuel on a 93 tune your car runs worse not better.

[vteckiller2000]

Yes to what the tuner has programmed the tune for. But that limit is what the ecu is always trying to run based on what it is reading from some of the sensors like the MAF and IAT sensor. If you run 100 octane fuel on a 93 tune your car runs worse not better.

Right, closer to detonation is better for power, I get that.

[AutoUnionLov3r]

Wow, that was quick to get flamed..

[vteckiller2000]

Wow, that was quick to get flamed..

You say that like you are surprised.

[heywier427]

still waiting on android3000, or anybody to reply to post 53 and 63.

id like to learn something amongst all this flaming.

[vteckiller2000]

Some people have said they have had some success moving the condenser lower. The problem is that at the lowest mounting position of the supplied "brackets" (I use that term loosely) the outlet of the IC is even with the outlet block where the hose connects in the second pic you posted. It interferes and limits how close you can mount the core to the condenser. If you were to make some small straps (much like the "brackets" supplied for the IC core) to screw into the radiator support, you could attach the condenser to those and lower it.

[heywier427]

yea, i plan on making my own mounting out of flat aluminum stock from home depot, lowes, ect.

im thinking of running a piece straight aluminum from the ac condenser mounting points, and then mount the condenser to that but lower. then take a piece of 90 degree or L, aluminum and running it accross the top ic mounts to my new condenser mounts.

its a bit ugly. use your imagination!

red- stock condenser mounts

green- new condenser mounting holes

grey- condenser in stock location

black- lowered condenser

blue- new aluminum brackets

purple- lipstick intercooler. probably as useless as the ones on honda's with no piping going to them! well maybe a little better :)

[EBG 18T]

You specifically said "If you guys are going to trim the plastic atleast finish the plastic edges so it looks smoother". <<- I copypasta'd that directly from your post.

Also, how can you tell if it is high or low density core? Honestly the pics I posted are shit from my phone. I am not saying it is a nice core by any means, but it is probably higher density (in regard to fin density) than you think.

EDIT: I just went out and measured, the core has 14 fins per inch and it should be noted that the fins are staggered in rows which from what I remember is one of the hallmarks of the nicer big name cores.

Someone is overly sensative.

I have seen the kit in person when I helped a friend install it. I appreciate your insinuatons that no one knows what they are talking about. Your responces are as if your reinvented the wheel, unfortunatly you did not.

You mention you were around or tuning sc'd/turbo'd mustangs, yet you didn't know the refernce to core density.

As long as your are happy and you are getting the IAT's you want during winter that is great. Post back in 6 months with results.

Good luck, and keep reinventing the wheel. We need people to move us forward.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Yeah, most definitely. I just pulled some metrics from the GPS Gtech:

I didn't launch the car due to the new clutch.

60ft - 1.977
0-60mph - 5.911
1/8th Mile - 9.176@76.01
1/4 Mile 14.448@93.75

Seems pretty stout to me.

If you bring it to the track you will be dissapointed by these "estimated" times... trust me

as for feeling the difference over stock i think its just in your head... I had the ER Sport FMIC on my turbo back K03 Revo stage 2 225injector setup and felt no difference what so ever, turbo and manifold didnt glow red as often tho.