Ok who has had a clutchmasters fx300 or fx400 go prematurely bad? any diagnosis?

[beerock]

Ive seen too much failed CM cltuch threads and I wanna try and see what the deal is... I saw a thread about someone taking apart their clutch and the PP side had uneven wear but the flywheel side was even wear.....

please post as much info you can as to what happened with your clutch masters clutch and how much it was to pull the clutch out and get your car working properly

[sweets4style]

It is not a clutchmasters issue at all. Most failures are either oil impregnation, as in leaking rear main seal, or leaking coolant into the bell housings or input shaft seal. The majoprity are however from people not following cut and dry instructions on proper break in procedures and ignoring them. They require a break in of stop and go driving for 500 miles. Not all highway take a trip 500 miles in one gear and not put in and beat on right away.

Further if you dont align the disc and force teh trans on you will more then likely bend the plate and cause damage to the plate and pressure plate.

[Monkey77]

Ive seen too much failed CM cltuch threads and I wanna try and see what the deal is... I saw a thread about someone taking apart their clutch and the PP side had uneven wear but the flywheel side was even wear.....

please post as much info you can as to what happened with your clutch masters clutch and how much it was to pull the clutch out and get your car working properly

Mine has been installed and it has only been 16 months, and I am already starting to get some slipping. Still trying to figure out and see the reason behind it. I am hoping it is just oil leaking down onto the clutch. Will keep you posted when I take it apart and see the deal.

[jibberjive]

Mine has been installed and it has only been 16 months, and I am already starting to get some slipping. Still trying to figure out and see the reason behind it. I am hoping it is just oil leaking down onto the clutch. Will keep you posted when I take it apart and see the deal.

Which clutch do you have exactly (there are a couple variations and generations of the FX400). And on a B5 S4 or the K04 B6 A4 in your info?

[bl0wn3ur0]

I had an FX400 (228mm) on my B6 A4 and that clutch held up great. It had lots of 5000+ rpm launches. The tranny gave up before the clutch did lol

[Tony@EPL]

Ive seen too much failed CM cltuch threads and I wanna try and see what the deal is... I saw a thread about someone taking apart their clutch and the PP side had uneven wear but the flywheel side was even wear.....

please post as much info you can as to what happened with your clutch masters clutch and how much it was to pull the clutch out and get your car working properly

Ive pulled 2 or 3 out of cars (one being mine own personal car) that the disk was only making contact on the outer edge of the friction material.

[beerock]

this is an b5 s4 specific failure with the fx300 and 400. My clutch was installed and there was no coolant or oil leaks it was aligned and broken in properly. it started slipping at 7k it has around 12 on it now and its a joke how much it slips. there are plenty of failures out there I just want a list of failures in this thread. some of the links ive read are indicating the flywheel side having even wear on the fiber disc and pressure plate warping with uneven wear on the fiber disc however this can be related to the clamp load of the springs dying WAY prematurely

[sweets4style]

It also has to do with how you drive. If you are driving a puck clutch like a slippable full faced style you will prematurely wear and heat the clutch up as well. Again more then likely this is an issue with how you drive and not the product. You can try and get a list and try and say because x amoutn of people out of thousands had issues, especially when half of them are guesses as to what is wrong, but thats not going to help you if you slip the clutch at stops often because of driver error, leak fluids onto the discs, and/or dont break it in before use.

This is assuming you install and torque it properly and and cleaned it properly before install as well.

Did you send it back to clutchmasters to have them inspect it. They can tell you right away what happened to so you dont have to make guesses based the wear patterns and whats wrong with it. Or are you unhappy with what they told you and are trying to just run a slander ad?

I mean you can certainly try a spec clutch if you would like and see what kind of shitty service, and over rated torque capacities you find with those poorly designed clutches and service.

The sachs plate those use are used in literally thousands of kits from size retrofits, other vehicles, euro vehicles etc and is an OTS part made by sachs - an oem supplier to probably millions of different clutches/vehicles. The clamp load surely is not the issue unles you got a bum one or a failure. I am not saying its not possible to have a bad one as any manufacturing process will have this happen. You cant make and process materials without some level or failure or defect rate. Its just simple statistics. But again what is your goal here? You either havent had CM look at it and tell you or you did and dont like the reason and are trying to slander? Why not just send it in and find out.

[martin0079]

Interested to find out what the deal is I am about to order an fx400 and cm steel flywheel. I hope I am not making a mistake

[beerock]

Listen sweetstyle, I understand all the factors involved. I daily drive my car and get more clutch life then most do. Its not driver error when it comes to me OR installation error. IM not assuming anything, you are assuming... Im trying to get a list of posts to get to the bottom of it. I dont need Cm to inspect the clutch when I can make my own diagnosis... its one of 3 things, disc fiber wore REDICULOUSLY fast, clamp load deteriorated or pressure plate warped. when there are multiple failures of a product it points at the product. this is common sense. trying to point fingers at driver error or install error is an assumption and makes assume you have some sort o tie with Cm or you have their clutch in your car... so far all you have talked about is all the other reasons the clutch could die EXCEPT product issue.

further roe, d you know what your talking about at all??? SACHS is not in a CM clutch, nor do i think its in a spec. I also dont want or ned to send my clutch to Cm and for them to tell me what may BE BS to cover up the issue.... I'm more then capable of checking clamp load and warped pp's, disc fiber thickness and flywheels

my clutch was out of my car at 7k and held fine we swapped it to a new stg3 setup and i replaced the throwout bearing and aligned it with the tool and installed it. around 10k it started slipping.. Some are saying the fiber wears fast, however I had dragged my car at 3k on the clutch and did 4 passes and i was only launching at 2-3k because i wanted to take it easy and not blow anything up. when we took out the fiber it looked new at 7k 4-5k later with no launches and its toast? NOPE sorry doesnt add up... And others have been in the same position and because its a clutch its not a waranty item..

@tony, only on the outer edge of the PP or the flywheel? also was the wear even all around the worn area or was it angled?

[*Blue-Angel*]

Lol your sitting there telling someone not to assume yet thats all your post is. A big assumption. I laugh every time I come across a thread like this on forums about clutches slipping and clutch issues and every single person like you that makes these assumptions hasnt even taken their car apart to diagnose the issue. Why dont you start with that before all the assumptions.

CM uses a SACHs cover for their kit sold on a B5 S4 FYI since you obviously didnt understand what the previous forum member was talking about

[beerock]

I'm not assuming im trying to get information to see if there is a issue with one of the particular parts. Im leaning toward the pressure plate or clamp load like i said. The car will come apart to be diagnosed however like i said, the car was apart 3-4k ago and the clutch was fine after install. plenty o people have had cm clutches fail at 10-15k and thats BS

theres no SACHS on the cm I know what the SACHS is unless cm has a different adjustment but i think theres no SACHS, the rs4 has it though. if im wrong then fine big deal.

[*Blue-Angel*]

dude seriously.

SACHS is a company...
SACs is self adjusting clutch.

And yes you are making assumptions. "Im leaning toward the pressure plate or clamp load like i said."
Save all the hype until you actually get your car apart

[beerock]

ok communication was off on that yes the sacs mechanism. Im not assuming, I have seen links about the pressure plate wear being uneven but flywheel side is even.. thats from a warped PP... this can be cause just by the metal warping OR form the clamp load deteriorating and allowing the PP to slip a little more then normal and prematurely wearing out the other components. If i was assuming I owuld be pointing the finger at a specific issue and assuming that is the problem.... I am weighing the issues and will make the logical decision when all comes to light. so relax, ok thank you.

[beerock]

i posted this for answers not a freaking argument... thats what the thread started as... post your cm clutch, if you still have it, what was the issue. plain and freaking simple.

[Brendon1098]

I've put a large number of clutch masters clutches in cars, from turbo'd R32's with 500AWHP to tial 605 car's etc. I've had TWO issues with them, one was the thread's in their aluminum flywheel were shit and that was with a 1.8T transverse application. This could have been from my over torquing it, but they did not specify a lower than factory torque spec.

The second issue was with a pressure plate cracking around the outer edge and it was slipping, this was on a R32 with a good amount of abuse. It was within the warranty period and they refused to do anything to help even when confronted at Waterfest.

I will say, I still use them, so does that particular R32 owner mentioned above. The replacement clutch is still in that car two years later holding great.

Out of the two spec clutches I remember, one in a K03S Avant, it was a stage 3 clutch that failed within 6 months and I remember one slipping in a mild turbo R32. I do remember one in a 1.8T transverse that felt good but I did not install it nor do I know if it failed or not.

[99blueb5]

i dont have an issue with mine, i have the fx400 240mm 6-puck kit with LWFW. broke it in nice and easy for about 600-650miles im at around 10k on it and its a great clutch, launched it prob a good 20 times at ~4k held up great, tranny didnt my first gear is starting to make some noise...lol

i realize this is a thread to post your problems thread but id like to share my experience. many people told me about bad chatter but ive never had chatter more than two times and that was when the clutch was cold and a/c was on other than that never heard any chatter even with my LWFW

to note when i replaced my clutch componets i replaced my rear main while i was there. im sure there has been people who didnt replace leaking oil seals and oil has gotten on the disc and really messed things up

[beerock]

thanks for the info brendon, those clutches are on different cars though. I'm loooking for specific b5 s4 failures. however... the r32 sounds like it happened from too much heat and the heat caused to to crack, who knows what the owner did when it started slipping though... how was the fiber disc on it?

[beerock]

thanks 99blueb5, looks like that clutch is in your a4, whats in the s4? this is a b5 s4 specific problem im trying to get to the bottom of with clutch masters

[sweets4style]

What you did is just proved me right. You dont have a freaken clue what the issue is as you have yet to have done any inspection or even so much as take a look at the clutch. Instead you are looking for people to give you reasons to complain instead of actually seeing what the issue is. If you read your own post you are the only one making assumtions. I am mearly pointing out potential issues as the clutches are proven. CM has sold thousands.

With that said your assumption is clearly that the product caused the issue not your own installation, your own driving habits, or your own cars potential spillage. With that said you can tell me I am wrong because you clearly havent taken apart the car to even remotely have any inkling of idea or though process. Nor do you demonstrate to me a sufficient knowledge of automotive skills relative to this car as you cant differentiate between Sachs, the company, and SAC the sel adjusting mechanism.

I am not trying to argue with you but its annoying to see people like you jump to it always being someone else's fault before actually finding out the issue. Have joe smoe like yourself diagnose a clutch failure and post it here like they even remotely know for sure that is an issue is absolutely stupid and doesnt help anyone unless your trying to just slander a company or particular product without any evidence.

Do yourself a favor and be intelligent about this. Take your damn car apart to see whats wrong with it before you want to find out about very few and far between clutch issues. Lets make this clear so you get it. There is no repeatable pattern of issues with the b5 s4 CM clutches. There are indeed isolated instances. Many of which are from the errors posted above, and several of which are just material failures. I am not saying the clutch is not to blame but at this point you have zero legs to even begine questioning or telling people what you think does or not does wrong with their or your own clutch. As you clearly are not experienced enough to even make that assertation.

[*Blue-Angel*]

^ Glad someone sees it exactly as I do.

Hell I just received a clutch from a customer from the Mazda world and he explained hard shifts. Of course its never the installer error however I found three things right off the bat that he did not do or did incorrectly and was just like this guy on this thread that is so quick to judge and make assumptions that its the manufacturer. All that does is create issues for the rest of us who actually know what we are talking about were we have to go into these threads and clean them up of all the bs assumptions and non sense from people talking out their ass about things they have no clue about.

Once again nice to see someone that sees it like I do.

[beerock]

what you dont see is, I have said my clutch will be taken out at some point soon, I HAVE AN IDEA what the issue is. clearly you didnt read that I had the clutch inspected at 7k when me and 2 other guys did the stg3 turbo install in my second avant. (In 48 hours mind you) the clutch looked brand new still... 3-4k later its slipping? I have done this to gather as much info as I can about the failures because its BS that a cltuch will wear out that fast under DD use. You dont need to know why I am doing this but believe me the fellas that have been screwed by CM and had to pay for another costly clutch job(labor(averaged about $900 just for labor) will thank me. Ive had two s4's and have read failures with the cm clutches WAY BEFORE either of you were members on AZ. I am not slandering anyone I'm speaking the truth and its for the good of fellow enthusiasts. there have been CM fx300-400 failures on the b5 s4 and most of them were 10k averaged. I laugh at both of you for trying to belittle me because what I thought was the sacs mechanism i spelled as Sachs the clutch cover and I clearly stated that was a miscommunication. Frankly, Ive forgotten more about cars boats and motorcycles then most people will ever learn. I'm confident enough to say that I can run circles around most people who work on cars, boats and motorcycles. you dont know me and your making HUGE assumptions about me.

I can do and say what I want mr sweetswhatever I can question it because I know the history surrounding the failures... And there were a STRING of them back in the day... it was right around the time where the tuners were starting to get more HP form ko4's then the rs4 clutch could handle so people were going with other clutches...

How oh how does it create ISSUES for YOU? if i bring up CM failures and I know the history of people having problems with them......... TONY from EPL has personally taken 3 out.... thats not ISOLATED...

I understand there can be a main seal leak or coolant on the clutch as well. If thats happeneing to mine SO BE it... all im trying to do is gather info about who had failures and what the problem was.... if my failure is due to oil or coolant then I got nothing to stand on, but my car is not leaking coolant or oil anywhere.. this is a preemptive task to gather info.... thats it

you to must be dealers for CM or have the clutches in your car or are just trying to control a situation THAT YOU CANT. you will not tell me what I can do or not do, nobody tells me what to do unless im employed by them or its my girl asking for me to go down on her.

why dont you two get a room and both be glad that you both see it the same way.... you dont see my side even after I have told you. It makes no difference if my clutch is out or not right now.

Fvck me this forum is for the birds

[sweets4style]

You can think we are sucking clutchmasters dick but thats not the case. You clearly do not demonstrate a thorough automotive knowledge and believe me sir you come nowhere near what I have done with the s4 and a4 or probably any car for the matter short of big block chevys and old fords. So you again sir are again making assumptions and then claiming others are instead.

The bottom line is there will be failures. Trying to slander something when you clearly dont even know whats wrong with yours is stupid. Either you are trying to get answers to a question you dont even know to ask yet, since you have not even taken your clutch out, or you are trying just to start a fuss about a product. I think I have been very clear as to the causes and issues and have no sided with CM or you for that matter. But your line or reasoning and assertations are stupid and you show it in the way you speak and elaborate on your issue.

Tony highly recomends spec to which I have seen 6-10 times more failures then CM. Hence why he was removing them most likely, to install new spec units he sold. This may not be the case but probably is. Any clutch can fail but their is no string like you put it of repeatable issues with CM clutches of any kind. Period. You can cry and whine all you want but its just not there. There are certainly isolated incidents and if you are going to cry about them and their various reasons of failure then you clearly dont even understand manufacturing principles let alone a car and clutch failures.

Understand that I dont see your side because you have no evidence to even remotely begin a case for your side. Just guesses and hopes and dreams. And if that is evidence to you your an idiot.,

[martin0079]

Op what clutch do you have? You never said. Is it an fx300 or 400 and is it a 228mm or 240mm?

[jibberjive]

There was a string back in the day, but it was with the Stage 3/4 segmented disk CM clutches that used the OEM flywheel. They've since altered their stuff, and I personally haven't heard of anything more than what would appear to be isolated failures since. Tracking, since I have FX400 6-disc (love it so far).

[sweets4style]

see that is an objective statement with some supporting information related to fact.

What the op has dont is nothing even remotely similar.

"hey I have the vague product descriptuion Id like to share and to let everyone know its slipping but I have no idea why because I havent even looked at it. For all I know it could be a shattered flywheel friction ring or leaky rear diff or my own shitty driving. But lets try and get everyone to speculate and guess and start garbage for no reason" sound about right OP?

There was a string back in the day, but it was with the Stage 3/4 segmented disk CM clutches that used the OEM flywheel. They've since altered their stuff, and I personally haven't heard of anything more than what would appear to be isolated failures since. Tracking, since I have FX400 6-disc (love it so far).

[beerock]

wow sweetwhatever, your making me laugh, your talking about yourself in that last post and dont even realize it. and assuming again.. WOW lol, dude I said I can run circles around most people, I didnt say you and im not gonna make it personal LIKE YOU ARE. I could def make you take it personal since i see how this is going.. but I wont.. this is no fvcing piss match how old are you? I will however be pointing out your assumptions of what I have done when it comes to cars or anything else with an engine, you dont know what I have done and I find it HIGHLY interesting that you can assume that from your assumptions that are based on What I did or didnt say or how I said it wrong LOL.... sacs sachs whoopie... and this is the third time ive told you again Im trying to gather info on the failures. YOUR being an idiot get a grip man.

if you must why dont you just tell me your explicit list of things you have done with all the cars youve ever owned with detail of all the mods and who performed them! I dont need to prove sh!t to you and dont need to tell you all the shit ive done, but please once again prove to me your that much better at working on cars and how extensive your modding history is and how vast your knowledge is. should i get on my kneees now and praise you SIR lol..

[beerock]

Op what clutch do you have? You never said. Is it an fx300 or 400 and is it a 228mm or 240mm?

i have a fx300 with a 295 thousandths kevalr fiber dont know the mm of the assembly they made two diameters? also have a fidanza lwfw

[Grooner]

Beerock, pay no mind to this common day thief. I wouldn't hold any credence to anything spewing out his forked tongue mouth. The only automotive knowledge he has is ripping people off....isn't that right Patrick!

[beerock]

ooooo the truth hurts, Ya know I use to argue my points when I was helping people in the atv racing world forums, because I raced, owned and ran a atv racing company, with sponsored riders etc. and there were so many people that would screw up threads and post such BS and try to tear apart my credibility and I would fight tooth and nail over it. Im older now and ive learned I dont have to fight tooth and nail because it does no good and is a waste of time. I told this dude 3 times I want info on the failures and hes thinking im trying to diagnose my failure from others failures LOL hes stalking me on quatrro world too now LOL and the truth comes out, I gave him the benefit of the doubt(HENCE NO ASSUMING) thinking he may know what he does. its obvious he doesnt get it

[sweets4style]

So you dont need it to diagnose your issue because you telepathic and can do that without even pulling it its amazing. So please please enlighten myself and everyone else:

Why do you need to have people post up their failures exactly when they would be completely unrelated and uncorrelatable to your particular mystery issue you dont even know about yet?

Please by all means share your intentions...... I would love to understand why.

good try, little off, but good waste of time: my feedback


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t=sweets4style
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[MDJ]

This thread is so retarded.

[foxhound720]

People are so funny around here. They admit they can not stand other peoples opinions around here but yet they still ask.

Every part with every company has problems and you cant get away from it. Sometimes a batch comes out worse then another batch. Grooner if you have a problem with Sweetsytle talk to him on your own thread. Nobody cares. Everyone needs to grow up here.

Jibberjive is a straight up dude on this forum, take lessons. Na zdrowie

[GramCracker]

This thread is so retarded.

Yea, I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself from another thread.

I really hate to say this but... Audizine has officially become the home to retarded car enthusiasts.

[Grooner]

"Grooner if you have a problem with Sweetsytle talk to him on your own thread. Nobody cares. Everyone needs to grow up here"

Obviously you do?...preciate the parental lesson. Just stating for the record/search that sweets4style is formally pzp107 who was/is banned from this forum. He has ripped numerous people off from QW myself included. So for any of his future victims, you now know who he is. I'm done, I'm going to go grow up now.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ss-with-pzp107

[hellrot98m3]

my cm fx400 6 puck with vast lwfw (kevlar i believe) 1000k mile city break in miles has about 15k miles on it and for about 13k of those miles it has been fantastic. the last 2k miles some slipping has been occurring. i am very upset about this as i have had nothing but good things to say about this clutch and have recommended it to countless amounts of people. im pulling the motor to swap k04s in and sell the 2560s within a month or so we shall see what everything looks like. i dont have any spare cash for a new clutch right now but while its all out i would like to put a new one in. i wont say i am exactly easy on it but i feel like it should have lasted a lot longer then the mileage i got out of it. friend of mine just became a vendor for cm so im going to see what he says about it.

edit- just fyi the clutch has been in the car since oct 2010

[beerock]

hellrot, make sure you dont throw the clutch away after inspection.. post here when you get the diagnosis

[Scotty@Advanced]

my cm fx400 6 puck with vast lwfw (kevlar i believe) 1000k mile city break in miles has about 15k miles on it and for about 13k of those miles it has been fantastic. the last 2k miles some slipping has been occurring. i am very upset about this as i have had nothing but good things to say about this clutch and have recommended it to countless amounts of people. im pulling the motor to swap k04s in and sell the 2560s within a month or so we shall see what everything looks like. i dont have any spare cash for a new clutch right now but while its all out i would like to put a new one in. i wont say i am exactly easy on it but i feel like it should have lasted a lot longer then the mileage i got out of it. friend of mine just became a vendor for cm so im going to see what he says about it.

edit- just fyi the clutch has been in the car since oct 2010

I'd say 15,000 miles on a puck clutch is a decent life. Puck style clutches generally don't last very long compared to full faced clutches. An as always the more you use/abuse the clutch the less life it will have.

[aysix]

I'd say 15,000 miles on a puck clutch is a decent life. Puck style clutches generally don't last very long compared to full faced clutches. An as always the more you use/abuse the clutch the less life it will have.

Is this with normal driving?

[Scotty@Advanced]

Is this with normal driving?

Define normal.