BT A4 first time start up help.. STOCK TUNE

[guy022077]

i need to get the car started so i can read the ecu and send the file to eurodyne to get this maestro boat going.

I have AIR
I have spark
I have fuel

i used a combination of http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=2784.0 and http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...GTI-ULEV-Coils to do my conversion. i didnt have an ICM, rather than buy one i decided to do the conversion. I had most parts laying around and got the new harness for 20$ from ECS.

all four coils have 12v power, are grounded, are triggering, are making spark, but i still cant get the car to even begin to fire.

battery is charging and on charger now.
ive replaced the grounds and have continuity on all of them to the battery.
the voltage on the wires that were going to the ICM is a little over 1V when im cranking the car. What is it suppose to be?

i think the spark plug is drowning in fuel and not sparking in the chamber. i do not know what to do about this.....i dont have any other injectors laying around. how can i confirm that is what is happening? or any other ideas would be great.

not sure where to go with this now.

870cc
stock tune
aeromotive fuel pump...


all fuses are intact.

[Seerlah]

You are not able to get stock mapping from the key in the starting/accessory position?

[sweets4style]

So correct me if I am not seeing this. But you are trying to start your car on a stock tune with 870cc injectors??? bingo that is your problem.

At x amoutn of voltage on certain injectors you will see y amount of fuel. When you run the same voltage on larger injectors you will see more or z fuel. You are probably drowning the motor.

[guy022077]

You are not able to get stock mapping from the key in the starting/accessory position?

not on the early AEBs if i had my service manual i could likely sort out a better way to read ecu.

So correct me if I am not seeing this. But you are trying to start your car on a stock tune with 870cc injectors??? bingo that is your problem.

At x amoutn of voltage on certain injectors you will see y amount of fuel. When you run the same voltage on larger injectors you will see more or z fuel. You are probably drowning the motor.

this is my assumption too, i just don't know what if anything to do about it.

[Mr.Audi]

i think your dumping a shit ton to much fuel..

[thenj3]

i dont get why you cant just put the key into acc mode. it makes no sense for the car to have to be running

[guy022077]

i dont get why you cant just put the key into acc mode. it makes no sense for the car to have to be running

when i talked to eurodyne, they said the car has to be running.

when i try to read ecu with the key on acc i get this http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/467081

when i called the response was, you need to have the car running. as a test i hit read while the car was cranking and maestro started reading the ecu. i dont know why but that is the case.

[thenj3]

sucks man. i didnt run into this problem when i read my ecu with maestro. hope you figure it out

[guy022077]

sucks man. i didnt run into this problem when i read my ecu with maestro. hope you figure it out

if i had known i would have held onto the stock injectors. i dont have my bentley manual. I would like to figure out how the car cranking, running or acc power to the ECU are different.

[thenj3]

yea im not sure either. cuz in order in order to scan an ecu for codes it just has to be on acc mode. not sure how that differs

[Nateness]

If all you have to do is get the car to run and idle to get information that Eurodyne needs, why not just re-install the original fuel injectors? That should be just fine for idle only.

[Seerlah]

^He stated that he no longer has them. But brings up a good point to source out used ones from someone parting their vehicle (fourtitude). Or better yet, just ask in the chatterbox to borrow someone's. There are a lot of people on here that went BT and no longer need them, but may still have them.

[Seerlah]

Off topic, do you know Tallahassee means "The God will deliver" in arabic? Interesting stuff I was taught by a Native American female Muslim.

/off topic interesting fact about your city

[dcampana]

I have my stock ones if you need? Lemme know. I can overnight them.

[Turbo Nerd]

I also have stock injectors from a motor I bought. Let me know if I could help.

[bmarshall]

is there a lot of fuel on your plugs when you crank it over?try heat the plugs up a bit with a butane torch. is the firing order correct?

[malanca]

870cc
stock tune

i think your dumping a shit ton to much fuel..

Yes, overfuelling should be your problem. I assume that you smell an awful fuel odour while cranking it up?

[guy022077]

Yes, overfuelling should be your problem. I assume that you smell an awful fuel odour while cranking it up?

yeah it is pretty bad

is there a lot of fuel on your plugs when you crank it over?try heat the plugs up a bit with a butane torch. is the firing order correct?

yeah, plugs are soaked. i double checked my coilpacks they are wired correctly.

dcampana

pm sent

[chris164935]

I have some stock injectors if you still want them and can make the trip to Jacksonville...

Also, you might have to wash out your cylinders with oil now since you've most likely flooded them with fuel. You should check your oil to make sure fuel did not get into it as well.

[bmarshall]

I have some stock injectors if you still want them and can make the trip to Jacksonville...

Also, you might have to wash out your cylinders with oil now since you've most likely flooded them with fuel. You should check your oil to make sure fuel did not get into it as well.

Just crank it over for a bit with injectors disconnected.

[guy022077]

turns out they can make me a file without it, thanks for the help guys.......

i am findign people with the same problems but no answers. little odd.

[guy022077]

ok, update

i got the 830 file (im running 870s) and i figured the car would start now. still nothing. I had some ecu problems maybe, i got the flash lic file to load no problem but i cant flash the modified file.
i wish i had read more about this, i would have sent my ecu to whomever to have them do this. The car is done and i still cant start it because of some license nonsense.

however...eurodyne has been very accessible...i just dont know what is wrong with me ecu, if anything.


and one more thing, i switched my fuel pump and i cant hear the priming anymore. not sure if its so quiet i cant hear it or i did something wrong. but since the injectors are drowing the plugs im assuming i did it right.... codes pulled from car




Address 01: Engine Labels: 058-907-55x-AEBN.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8D0 907 557 R
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT MOTR HS D05
Software Coding: 06201
Work Shop Code: WSC 06335
VCID: 3F86FC1C3D669DB
4 Faults Found:

18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 35-10 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
17972 - Throttle Actuator (J338)
P1564 - 35-10 - Under-Voltage during Basic Setting - Intermittent
17967 - Throttle Body (J338)
P1559 - 35-10 - Fault in basic settings - Intermittent
17956 - Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75)
P1548 - 35-00 - Open Circuit

Readiness: 0110 0101

Tuesday,31,January,2012,18:15:45:57946
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.2
Data version: 20120126


Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77

Mileage: 258850km/160841miles
************************************************** ****************************-
Address 01: Engine Labels: 058-907-55x-AEBN.lbl
Part No: 8D0 907 557 R
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT MOTR HS D05
Coding: 06201
Shop #: WSC 06335
VCID: 3F86FC1C3D669DB

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 0101

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8D0-820-043-1D.lbl
Part No: 8D0 820 043 P
Component: A4 KLIMAAUTOMAT D57
Coding: 00160
Shop #: WSC 06325
VCID: 2D5AB654E70A1FB

6 Faults Found:
00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
00792 - A/C Pressure Switch (F129)
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground
01273 - Fresh Air Blower (V2)
17-10 - Control Difference - Intermittent
00797 - Sunlight Photo Sensor (G107)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01582 - Signal for Coolant Temperature
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 15: Airbags Labels: None
Part No: 8D0 959 655 D
Component: Airbag 7 Audi 0302
Coding: 00104
Shop #: WSC 06335
VCID: 3776943C1556A5B

3 Faults Found:
00588 - Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N95)
32-00 - Resistance too High
01217 - Side Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N199)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent
01218 - Side Airbag Igniter; Passenger Side (N200)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8D0-919-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 8D0 919 910 J
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR.UN4 D01
Coding: 02242
Shop #: WSC 40540
VCID: 336EA02C012E49B

Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: AUZ8Z0V7050130
IMMO-IDENTNR: AUZ8Z0V7050130

No fault code found.

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.lbl
Part No: 8LO 862 257 B
Component: CV-Pump, Alarm, RC D03
Coding: 12268
Shop #: WSC 65535
VCID: 53AEC0ACA1EE69B

10 Faults Found:
01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak)
35-00 - -
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
35-00 - -
01372 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Rear Passenger Side
35-00 - -
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
35-00 - -
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -
01369 - Alarm triggered by Hood Switch
35-00 - -
01368 - Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch
35-00 - -
01373 - Alarm triggered by Radio Ground Contact
35-00 - -
01361 - Switch for Anti-Theft Alarm; Close
29-00 - Short to Ground
01360 - Switch for Anti-Theft Alarm; Open
29-00 - Short to Ground

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
Part No: 4B0 951 173
Component: Innenraumueberw. D02
Coding: 00101
Shop #: WSC 06335
VCID: E0C49F606058023

3 Faults Found:
01380 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Rear Left
35-00 - -
01382 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Front Left
35-00 - -
01383 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Front Right
35-00 - -

End ************************************************** ******************-

[thenj3]

damn dude that sucks. not sure whats going on there. just wondering how long it took for you to get your base file though? ive been waiting about two weeks for mine to come back

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Make sure that your battery is fully charged, and try disconnecting the stereo. Sometimes the K line can give you issues with Maestro, especially if you have an aftermarket one. (can't remember if you were the one I gave this advice to a month back or not).

If you have an AEB you may also want to try and read your codes before flashing. Reason being is that it forces the controller into the right KYP protocol. It's different for ME7 and ME5 and the dongle seems to be pre-set for ME7. Finally, go into the option bar and select "skip fast initialization".

[guy022077]

read doesnt work without the car running, i cant get the car running because of the 870s on stock tune. if i had my bentley i would like to figure out how to fool the ecu into thinking the car is running for the purpose of flashing....

this process seems stupid...but im only saying that because im having trouble. but how can you expect someone to have the car running before they scan it to get their tune flashed?

if only more than 2 people had complained, i would have done that wideband conversion when the car looked like this to avoid all of this.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

You should be able to do an initial read and re-flash with it not running. I did mine without the car running. However it seems to be really hit or miss, it's frustrating, I know.

As I said earlier, part of it seems to be getting the controller to wake up in the right mode. If it stays in KYP2000 protocol it won't read. however if it goes to the other mode (five baud init. 9600 or something to that effect) then it should work.

[rockersteady]

Although Chris swears it has nothing to do with him, many (if not all) AEB owners do not have pump prime at key on anymore after flashing (I only noticed after loading the base file but you only have the ECU lic loaded.)

I cant see how you can have the AEB car running while flashing, First thing Maestro does is erase the EEprom before loading.
There is another way to load the file, on the bench, Buy some alligator clip test leads and connect
this way.
With your ECU removed, look carefully at the pins and you will see the numbering
same with the Power tap pins.
ECU pins to Power tapp pins
1 ecu switched 12v
2. ecu and 14. tapp battery ground
battery 12v to 3, ecu and 16. tapp
19. ecu to 7. tapp
ecu 43. to 13. tapp.
switch on (power to ecu 1. ) and immediately initiate flashing

contary to popular opinion, OBD2 pin 13 is L-line not 15

[guy022077]

Although Chris swears it has nothing to do with him, many (if not all) AEB owners do not have pump prime at key on anymore after flashing (I only noticed after loading the base file but you only have the ECU lic loaded.)

I cant see how you can have the AEB car running while flashing, First thing Maestro does is erase the EEprom before loading.
There is another way to load the file, on the bench, Buy some alligator clip test leads and connect
this way.
With your ECU removed, look carefully at the pins and you will see the numbering
same with the Power tap pins.
ECU pins to Power tapp pins
1 ecu switched 12v
2. ecu and 14. tapp battery ground
battery 12v to 3, ecu and 16. tapp
19. ecu to 7. tapp
ecu 43. to 13. tapp.
switch on (power to ecu 1. ) and immediately initiate flashing

contary to popular opinion, OBD2 pin 13 is L-line not 15

awesome, ill try this tomorrow

You should be able to do an initial read and re-flash with it not running. I did mine without the car running. However it seems to be really hit or miss, it's frustrating, I know.

As I said earlier, part of it seems to be getting the controller to wake up in the right mode. If it stays in KYP2000 protocol it won't read. however if it goes to the other mode (five baud init. 9600 or something to that effect) then it should work.

i did try this, and that is how i got the lic file to work. but when i go to flash the tune i get

"Licenese not valid for this vehicle please use the license new vehicle option under the flash cable menu to add licenses
this doesnt seem like a communication problem, more a lic file problem.

if i try to flash the lic file again i get the error "ERROR WHILE DECRYPTING PADDing is invalid and cannot be removed"

also, i never receive the VIN, is that normal on an AEB?

[guy022077]

thanks for the help, but still no dice. i got a power supply and using that pinout tried to flash ecu out of the car. I get the exact same failure, the exact same way. VAGCOM scans no problem and reports no issues. does any AEB owner recall being able to pull the VIN from the ecu with eurodyne? I should consider that maybe this ecu doesnt work. i got it in a trade and dont remember if it came out of a running car.

and still no VIN retrieval. ill have to source another AEB ecu and see if i can read it, in or out of my car. i cant believe the hardest part of this build is this software.... im moving shortly and would like to get this car running. i get the feeling if i find my ECU is good...this 7 is hitting the trash and ill go do some other tune. i bought this because i plan on making changes throughout the project, if im going to go through this nonsense everytime....id rather go with something else that wont be such a hassle.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Have you checked to see if the ECU you have was a stock tune? Reason being is that if it was re-programmed by means of physically replacing the chip, then the tuner most likely used an encrypted chip. This will prevent you from re-flashing it.

[rockersteady]

If you open the ecu and look at the eeprom, it should be AMD chip AM29F200xx or AM29F400xx there is one other earlier eeprom AMD again but just this ID B 58601m- this should be compatable with the first 2.
If it sits alone on the board (ie factory soldered directly to it) then it "should" be flashable, any encryption would be with a second chip on a board with the above.

The ECU does not return a VIN (hence we can swap Maestro AEB ecus between cars) but if the flash sequence doesnt start with returning the serial number of the ECU then you are not yet in the right mode for flashing (opposite mode that vag com and Maestro logging uses.)
You know it will flash when it returns the serial number.
Try disable fast init, and wait a few secs before power on ECU after pressing enter after selecting the tapp file (base) you want to load to make sure it wakes up the ECU in the right mode.

I have to try several times to get it to work while bench flash. (obd2 port flash not possible in Euro/ Aussie cars)

excert of a email from Chris when I started flashing mine.

"The older AEB ecu’s can wake up in two different modes, KWP 1281, or KWP2000.

The measuring blocks, fault code reading, and ecu reading are done using KWP1281,
The flashing can only be done in KWP2000 mode.

When the car is running, the ecu will only communicate in 1281 mode.
With the key on and engine off, the ecu will wake up in KWP 2000 mode if communications are initialised within 5-10 seconds. If you wait longer than that, the ecu will probably wake up in KWP1281 mode. You will know if the ecu is in KWP2000 mode because it will return the hardware and software numbers with the ecu info. In 1281 mode, it will return only the actual ecu part number. In your e-mail, the ecu is waking up in 1281 mode (no hardware or software numbers, only the ecu part number)

So, for the reflash, turn the key on, leave the engine off, and immediately initiate the flash.
The ecu should return the hardware, software and ecu part numbers, then the check engine light will go out and the flash should start."

as an after thought, leave 19. ecu to 7. cable off. then maybe it cant wake up in 1281 mode (k -line)

Good luck

[Urtorsen]

If you open the ecu and look at the eeprom, it should be AMD chip AM29F200xx or AM29F400xx there is one other earlier eeprom AMD again but just this ID B 58601m- this should be compatable with the first 2.
If it sits alone on the board (ie factory soldered directly to it) then it "should" be flashable, any encryption would be with a second chip on a board with the above.

The ECU does not return a VIN (hence we can swap Maestro AEB ecus between cars) but if the flash sequence doesnt start with returning the serial number of the ECU then you are not yet in the right mode for flashing (opposite mode that vag com and Maestro logging uses.)
You know it will flash when it returns the serial number.
Try disable fast init, and wait a few secs before power on ECU after pressing enter after selecting the tapp file (base) you want to load to make sure it wakes up the ECU in the right mode.

I have to try several times to get it to work while bench flash. (obd2 port flash not possible in Euro/ Aussie cars)

excert of a email from Chris when I started flashing mine.

"The older AEB ecu’s can wake up in two different modes, KWP 1281, or KWP2000.

The measuring blocks, fault code reading, and ecu reading are done using KWP1281,
The flashing can only be done in KWP2000 mode.

When the car is running, the ecu will only communicate in 1281 mode.
With the key on and engine off, the ecu will wake up in KWP 2000 mode if communications are initialised within 5-10 seconds. If you wait longer than that, the ecu will probably wake up in KWP1281 mode. You will know if the ecu is in KWP2000 mode because it will return the hardware and software numbers with the ecu info. In 1281 mode, it will return only the actual ecu part number. In your e-mail, the ecu is waking up in 1281 mode (no hardware or software numbers, only the ecu part number)

So, for the reflash, turn the key on, leave the engine off, and immediately initiate the flash.
The ecu should return the hardware, software and ecu part numbers, then the check engine light will go out and the flash should start."

as an after thought, leave 19. ecu to 7. cable off. then maybe it cant wake up in 1281 mode (k -line)

Good luck

this should be part of a thread on AEB/nonDBW specific maestro info, with a load of other do's and don't s,would be nice to have a thread without all the comments and just facts and help.

[guy022077]

not sure if this is good or not, i put the ECU back on the bench to try this flashing...with the idea that the ecu might not be in the right mode.


now i am getting different behavior


the software never reports the kwp2000 it just returns the ECU and prt number. i select the flash file and the software reports Beginning ECU flash


but nothing happens. i also get a window "ecu selector" which ive never seen before. i select my ecu type....the flash claims to happen, but nothing happens.

i think ill do this process with quickly hitting flash right as i turn the key in the car instead of the bench...

[guy022077]

i put the ecu back in the car and changed how i was flashing....and i noticed something odd.


If i had the eurodyne flasher plugged into the car before i turned the key to on, the CEL would not come on and it was always 1281.

if i turned the car on then plugged the flasher in, it was kwp2000 until i started reading etc and the CEL was on.

how fast you hit flash after choosing file and turning the key on did make a difference but pay attention to the CEL when you try this.


using these methods i did manage to get a good read file to send to Eurodyne. i hope the licensing crap will be solved now that they will have a good read file from me.

[rockersteady]

how fast you hit flash after choosing file and turning the key on did make a difference but pay attention to the CEL when you try this.

Now try on a Euro car with no CEL indicator and immobizer interrupting the flash half way thru- once you actually get it to start!

[guy022077]

well i got a successful flash

If i had the eurodyne flasher plugged into the car before i turned the key to on, the CEL would not come on and it was always 1281.

if i turned the car on then plugged the flasher in, it was kwp2000 until i started reading etc and the CEL was on.

using this i just loaded the 830 file...tomorrow i try and start it again....

[guy022077]

boom, started first try with no hesitation.

now to google to search for my new problems. idle is very smooth but the car conks out if i touch the gas.

i tried to let it get to temperature but it conked out again on its own after about 3 minutes.

ill have to scan it again and see if there are any codes now that it is running.