Are new exhaust manifolds worth the money for tial 605s??

[undroath73]

I'm doing a 605 build soon and can't decide if I should get new manifolds or not. I was looking into the log style ones from Vast and they are around $1000. I'm already like 8 grand deep in parts and I'm not sure if it's worth it to drop another g on these. Or is it? Are there significant power gains from these manifolds or should I just run the stock ones?

[BlkdoutS4]

No, just stick with the stock ones.

[jamestown478]

would it be worth having the stock ones ceramic coated?

[undroath73]

^ thought about just doing that too

[AudiForeman]

if ur slapping your face over 8k then hell no but if is pocket change for 1k manifolds then do it. they sounds amazing so i have been told but stocks will flow 500+ whp. your call. where can we ger crematic coated?

[sektor M7]

I would do Wagners over Vast

[Evilevo]

Why waste money on some thing VAST made when AMD has proven that the stock manifolds will flow to over 700whp.

[S4 00 2.7]

Why waste money on some thing VAST made when AMD has proven that the stock manifolds will flow to over 700whp.

My thoughts exactly.

[sektor M7]

Instead of manifolds built the bottom end, not much more if you can do the labor and far more beneficial .

[mjacksons4]

x2 on AMD proving the stock manifolds work. Why waste the money, especially with V@ST.....

[zillarob]

Dayumm, that thing is going to be nasty!
Personally, I think I would swaintech the stock manis, downpipes, and maybe even the hotsides. Have a used set of coated autospeed headers if you want to swing by and take a look (iirc dude wants like 6 bills).

You doing the work yourself? I just did a 605 kit a few weeks ago, let me know if you need a hand.

What clutch you gonna run?

[Mikse]

A quota from a guy whos running roughly ~600bhp level:

When I fitted the KKD manifold's on top speed runs my EGT's were over 50'C cooler than on stock manifolds. When I fitted the manifolds I reverted back to my 30 PSI map, on the standard manifolds it had peak boost of 23 psi and the EGT's still got up to over 980"c in the higher gears at VMAX.

So its not how much power you can get but how you get it. For example there are 500bhp cars with single 2.5" downpipes and here are people going from dual 2.5" Dps to 3" because they think the smaller DPs wound flow enough...
If you do only 3rd or 4th gear quick pulls the tubular manifolds are not "needed" to get 500whp but its totally different thing if you're doing 6th gear pulls on a highway when stuff is getting really hot.

Same thing basically with turbos, DPs, intake parts, etc etc. Bigger will do it easier..

[undroath73]

Dayumm, that thing is going to be nasty!
Personally, I think I would swaintech the stock manis, downpipes, and maybe even the hotsides. Have a used set of coated autospeed headers if you want to swing by and take a look (iirc dude wants like 6 bills).

You doing the work yourself? I just did a 605 kit a few weeks ago, let me know if you need a hand.

What clutch you gonna run?

I went with a Spec stage 3+ kit. And yea me and my good friend that's an Audi/vw tech are gonna do the work. Are you by chance the rob that I bought a vag-com off of last year at a car show in Morgantown?

[zillarob]

Lol, yeah thats me.
Spec3+ is what we used also, nice driving clutch. One of the guys that was with you that day?

[Austonwerner4]

I think you need these!!!!

[Aggv]

^ Those look sick, but i like these better with NO WELDS to crack



I'm sure the stock manifolds do fine with a couple dyno pulls that prove they will make good power, but it doesnt take a physicist to see the differences and how something like above would be better than stock. I would get those Wagner manifolds after rods tho.

[undroath73]

^ those are beautiful

[undroath73]

Lol, yeah thats me.
Spec3+ is what we used also, nice driving clutch. One of the guys that was with you that day?

No it's neither of them, he lives in AZ so I'm gonna be flying him home in the next couple weeks hopefully so we can knock this out. Do you think the build can be done in 4 days with two guys, a lift, and a garage full of tools?

[DanS4]

No it's neither of them, he lives in AZ so I'm gonna be flying him home in the next couple weeks hopefully so we can knock this out. Do you think the build can be done in 4 days with two guys, a lift, and a garage full of tools?

Send me a PM when you are done, I would like to see a 605 pull.

[Max@034]

Stock manifolds MAY be able to flow 700whp Adam, but that doesn't mean there isn't huge room for improvement. We've seen over 20whp gains with manifolds on just K04's; image what that is for 770s or 605s? That being said...I personally would recommend just going with your stock manifolds. They may not be perfect but yes there are plenty of cars running around with 500+whp on the stock manifold sizes.

I'm running ported and ceramic coated stockers on my build at the moment. I'd save your money for better things. You'll see similar gains, if not more, going with RS4 upper intake components.

^ Those look sick, but i like these better with NO WELDS to crack



I'm sure the stock manifolds do fine with a couple dyno pulls that prove they will make good power, but it doesnt take a physicist to see the differences and how something like above would be better than stock. I would get those Wagner manifolds after rods tho.

Wagner is currently redesigning their manifolds to accommodate larger turbos; it will be a very nice product once that is complete.

[undroath73]

Thanks for the input max!

[joemomma]

IMO if you want to get the most flow and efficiency do either tubular manifolds or some type of manifold with larger ports like the one Wagner ones. Theres a reason NO other turbo car sticks with stock manifolds or any modded car for that matter.

[joemomma]

Why waste money on some thing VAST made when AMD has proven that the stock manifolds will flow to over 700whp.

Wasnt that 700whp on asp manifolds??

[shorterthanrich]

Vendor bashing aside...

You'll be fine on the stockers. The VAST manifolds are well made, but I doubt you'll see much improvement. Plus, they have the stock flange...IMO, the benefit of the VAST manis is getting whatever flange you want on it (such as for GTs).

Ceramic coat the stockers if you want - its cheap!

[undroath73]

^ lol ... I've heard that the most of the tubular style manifolds are made from 304 stainless which doesn't hold up well to the heat and the weight of the turbos...

[Burningcoals]

Dave made 712WHP on stock manifolds. I am hoping to make 700WHP on stock manifolds in the next couple weeks. You will not see gains on VAST manifolds over stock IMO.

IMO Save $$$ do 3L instead. If you do get Mani's get the wagners obviously.

[fshowcars]

I would only run manifolds if you are running something that needs them for placement or flanges...

[DarkSideGTI]

It's very easy to brace a turbo.. there's plenty of 4 bangers out there with 42R++ sized turbos hanging off of manifolds.. You can use schedule 10 to make a manifold, it will be plenty strong.


That said, I would personally spend my money elsewhere than get the vast log manifolds for those dial turbos..

I am a little wary of manifolds built with weld el's and tee's. There is not a lot of room for thermal expansion and they have been known to fail more than other manifolds. I speak from experience as I had one on my old GTI.

[zillarob]

No it's neither of them, he lives in AZ so I'm gonna be flying him home in the next couple weeks hopefully so we can knock this out. Do you think the build can be done in 4 days with two guys, a lift, and a garage full of tools?

Id say 4 days is doable if you guys are on it and all goes well. The killer is all the stupid bs you run into while you are in there. Make sure you have all the gaskets/seals you can think of beforehand, vision doesnt stock many of them.

When you plan on doing it?

[undroath73]

Id say 4 days is doable if you guys are on it and all goes well. The killer is all the stupid bs you run into while you are in there. Make sure you have all the gaskets/seals you can think of beforehand, vision doesnt stock many of them.

When you plan on doing it?

Just booked the plane tickets today acually, he's flying in feb. 17th to the 22nd so that's when it's going down. As for seals/gaskets, I know the kit doesn't come with new manifold to turbo and turbo to DP gaskets so I'm gonna order those before hand, are there any other ones you think I need or should have handy?

[andream88]

Stock manifolds MAY be able to flow 700whp Adam, but that doesn't mean there isn't huge room for improvement. We've seen over 20whp gains with manifolds on just K04's; image what that is for 770s or 605s? That being said...I personally would recommend just going with your stock manifolds. They may not be perfect but yes there are plenty of cars running around with 500+whp on the stock manifold sizes.

I'm running ported and ceramic coated stockers on my build at the moment. I'd save your money for better things. You'll see similar gains, if not more, going with RS4 upper intake components.



Wagner is currently redesigning their manifolds to accommodate larger turbos; it will be a very nice product once that is complete.

Are you sure about that?
I've recently bought a set of those manis and Carsten told me he was thinking about stopping the production as it was too expensive and not worth it.
What do you mean with "to accomodate larger turbos"? Bigger ports?

[undroath73]

Nick, don't order anything. Put a list together and I can get it all and save $$$. I was thinking about putting a little kit together of all coolant an oil line seals tO bring with in case EPL forgot something. I'm gonna order a spider hosed or mine too I should prolly get you one too... And you should prolly make a decision on the manifolds soon cause if I come to PA and you don't have manifolds, I'm taking your turbos and wallet back to az with me

I lol'd

Are you sure about that?
I've recently bought a set of those manis and Carsten told me he was thinking about stopping the production as it was too expensive and not worth it.
What do you mean with "to accomodate larger turbos"? Bigger ports?

How do you like them?

[2380S4]

i thought this post was about manifolds?

Umm I'm think I'd got off the tracks a bit!

Although kinda off interesting, but pretty typical AZ.

[NYCVR6]

They erased my reply regarding the manifolds.. I said i wouldn't bother with those smaller tial turbos, especially if you don't have cash burning a hole in your pocket. It can be spent more wisely somewhere else Im sure. You will see minimal gains if any with those turbos I would think.. Personally If I were going to do manifolds for it, I would do some nice custom ones.. But that kind of defeats the purpose of the "eliminator" style of the tials.. Let's say that I would guess that if you had a nice tune and did a pull in the car, swapped in aftermarket manifolds, and did another pull, you would probably be questioning in your head if they did anything at all.. Meaning the gains aren't going to have a WOW factor by any means.

[mjacksons4]

They erased my reply regarding the manifolds.. I said i wouldn't bother with those smaller tial turbos, especially if you don't have cash burning a hole in your pocket. It can be spent more wisely somewhere else Im sure. You will see minimal gains if any with those turbos I would think.. Personally If I were going to do manifolds for it, I would do some nice custom ones.. But that kind of defeats the purpose of the "eliminator" style of the tials.. Let's say that I would guess that if you had a nice tune and did a pull in the car, swapped in aftermarket manifolds, and did another pull, you would probably be questioning in your head if they did anything at all.. Meaning the gains aren't going to have a WOW factor by any means.

Although we don't see eye to eye on most posts, I agree. 605's are just fine on stock manifolds....its proven. /drama

[AwdOwns]

KKD also offers nice manifolds that have been previously mentioned in this thread. Don't overlook them as a option as well.

[zillarob]

Just booked the plane tickets today acually, he's flying in feb. 17th to the 22nd so that's when it's going down. As for seals/gaskets, I know the kit doesn't come with new manifold to turbo and turbo to DP gaskets so I'm gonna order those before hand, are there any other ones you think I need or should have handy?

Those metal rings are a good start. How much more you need depends on how much preventative maint stuff you will be doing while you are in there.
Id say, at the very least, the 5 death valley coolant orings and oil return gaskets/orings.
I usually do int/exh gaskets too. Flywheel bolts if you take it off.
Guessing you will be doing tbelt and vc/tensioner gaskets so ALL the stuff for that. If water pump comes with the plain paper gasket, toss it. Get the waxy green one from vision.
I like to clean/reseal the oil sump. No gasket on the upper and a metal one on the lower.
Some say front/rear mains. Rear is easy, front a bit more work. New big ass bolt if you do the front.
Do the plastic socket on the shift linkage while its out.
The vc and lower sump always look ratty so I like to paint them with vht wrinkle+. Upper sump and intake too? Dont worry about too much color, cant really see any of it with the plastic engine covers on.

Clean the engine/bay till you can eat off it, simple green and hot water work well. Run a hose out from the washing machine if you have to, lol, hot water melts the grime away. Will save some time getting the motor clean enough to start taking things apart and also on the bay before it goes back in.

I have the asp headers or set of stockers if you want me to look into sending those out mon, Should be plenty of lead time.

[PearlS4]

I'll chime in here with some experience. I had the ASP tubulars on my old KO4 setup and they sounded great. Did they add more power? Debatable, but the car was one of the higher HP KO4 cars in my area. They ended up failing with stress cracks at the welds in about two years. For the price of most of the tubular manifolds, and my experience, I would say skip. I'm on stock manifolds now with 770's and couldn't be happier. The only aftermarket manifold I would ever consider are the cast Wagners. They are crazy expensive, but will not fail like welded pipes. Until you are looking to squeeze the last available HP out of your engine aftermarket manis are not really needed. As the others have said in the post, use that money for other things.

[NYCVR6]

KKD also offers nice manifolds that have been previously mentioned in this thread. Don't overlook them as a option as well.

They look pretty decent too, a little under 1000 euro for the pair.. I saw Satans Child mention he has them on his motor, not sure if that's the drag sled though, may be another car he owns..

[Mikse]

The only aftermarket manifold I would ever consider are the cast Wagners. They are crazy expensive, but will not fail like welded pipes. Until you are looking to squeeze the last available HP out of your engine aftermarket manis are not really needed. As the others have said in the post, use that money for other things.

KKD's are made from carbon steel because its much more durable than stainless. A lot of people was questioning why these are made from carbon over SS and this was the answers from KKD:

Short SS manifold not withstand thermal expansion and that rips series broken. Thats why carbon steel is much better.

They look pretty decent too, a little under 1000 euro for the pair.. I saw Satans Child mention he has them on his motor, not sure if that's the drag sled though, may be another car he owns..

KKD's retail 935€ but how much you would have to pay import duties to that?