My BAT Build/Intro Thread... Finally

[Sales@RAI]

^Didn't want to bash them on a forum board they are paying advertisers for...but you did it for me .

Uni advertises here? We've been using Maestro on everything

[Seerlah]

Yeah. They even sponsor the FI section. I also use Eurodyne

[catbed]

because Uni blows and just doesn't feel like changing it. Get Maestro and you can do it yourself. I ran out to 9k rpms on stock cams. Not saying it was efficient at all, but I did it lol

That's what I was thinking. I was planning on getting selling the Uni and getting maestro anyway.

[Seerlah]

You can send a PM to k0mpresd and ask him if he knows how to change the rev limit on the ME7. He's good with messing with the stock ECU.

[catbed]

Spent all of last weekend working on the car. Got it all put back together, here it is on the stand.



Back to the car, got it on the engine hoist, and put the clutch and everything on the motor.



Took some time getting it in the bay, had a tough time with the input shaft. Eventually got it back in though.



Didn't take many pics after this, I just got on a roll and started putting everything back. All buttoned up, primed it with oil, put the front end back on, filled it with coolant, and cranked it over. Started on the 4-5th crank and promptly saw the mass amounts of oil coming out of the oil feed line on the turbo. Shut it off and tightened it back up. Started it back up again and let it idle. Ran great, settled into a nice idle. There was some lifter tap, but that eventually quieted. Backed it out of the driveway and set off to break it in.













The clutch felt GREAT. Much softer pedal than the ACT i had in before it. Drove around town until it came up to temp. Literally a mile from my house, I stopped at a stop sign, turned left, and ran it up to about 3.5k RPM. I then heard a pop, and lots of rattling, and the engine died. Didn't try to crank it, just towed it to my house. This is what greeted me:







This was only the #1 cylinder. The other valves/pistons are FLAWLESS so it didn't jump time. Don't really know what happened, can't pull the cams till next weekend. Plan now is new piston, rings, 2 new exhaust valves, 12 new intake valves, and maybe hone the cylinder. The cylinder walls have marks, but they pass the fingernail test, so hopes are high.

[CCA4]

FUUUUUUUcK! Sorry to see that man. I'm confused about how one cylinder could get trashed that badly and the other three are fine, how does that even happen? Do you think something broke?

[Seerlah]

That sucks bug time, man. What happened?

[Dan[FN]6262]

wow. just wow. If that isn't a kick in the nuts...

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Holy shit man, that's unreal, what the hell happened? Obviously you dropped a valve, but how did the second one get broken and where did it go? Sounds like you're dealing with it better than I would have. I think I'd have lit the car on fire for the insurance money. If it's any consolation though, I left a chunk of silicone coupler in my intake tract when I did my build. Guess what happened to my turbo on startup after 6 weeks of work.... (I'll give you a hint, it cost $650 )

PS: If you need a single AEB piston I may be able to help you out. I have 3 kicking around from a parts engine of mine (one piston was ruined), so I'm not worried about breaking up a full set.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

because Uni blows and just doesn't feel like changing it. Get Maestro and you can do it yourself. I ran out to 9k rpms on stock cams. Not saying it was efficient at all, but I did it lol

Based on people's experiences here I'm starting to get the feeling that what Uni doesn't know could fill a warehouse.

[jaychen]

Holy bajeebas, that is one hell of a mess.

You were making solid progress as well. Sorry to hear

[M-Hood]

That sucks, hopefully the block can be saved. Looks like the valve keepers might have popped off.

[gmx]

Hopefully it's a Piston and a couple of valves

So I talked to Uni about raising my rev limiter on my file, and was told, "Unless you have aftermarket cams, their is no need to raise the limiter, the factory cams are choking the engine after 7500rpm. It's the maximum for oem cams."

Anybody have any input? This doesn't seem right to me.

because Uni blows and just doesn't feel like changing it. Get Maestro and you can do it yourself. I ran out to 9k rpms on stock cams. Not saying it was efficient at all, but I did it lol

Exactly, they are the laziest mob around. Half arsed workmanship, Full arse after-sales support.

^Didn't want to bash them on a forum board they are paying advertisers for...but you did it for me .

Good! Let the members who browse this site see how full of shit they are.

[catbed]

FUUUUUUUcK! Sorry to see that man. I'm confused about how one cylinder could get trashed that badly and the other three are fine, how does that even happen? Do you think something broke?

Either the keepers came off one of the valves or a valve broke idk. We will see

[catbed]

Holy shit man, that's unreal, what the hell happened? Obviously you dropped a valve, but how did the second one get broken and where did it go? Sounds like you're dealing with it better than I would have. I think I'd have lit the car on fire for the insurance money. If it's any consolation though, I left a chunk of silicone coupler in my intake tract when I did my build. Guess what happened to my turbo on startup after 6 weeks of work.... (I'll give you a hint, it cost $650 )

PS: If you need a single AEB piston I may be able to help you out. I have 3 kicking around from a parts engine of mine (one piston was ruined), so I'm not worried about breaking up a full set.

One of the intake valves was in the exhaust manifold. I was real upset about it when it happened but now I just want to fix it and start driving it again.

PM sent.

[catbed]

That sucks, hopefully the block can be saved. Looks like the valve keepers might have popped off.

I confident the block will be alright. I'm just concerned about the con rod bearing. There was literally a mile on the motor. Should I get a new one?

My plan is to get a new piston and rings, try to get only 2 exhaust valves, and maybe put the stock AWM intake valves in. Is it worth putting the stock ones in? Or should I just get supertech SS ones?

Any advice is appreciated.

[M-Hood]

I confident the block will be alright. I'm just concerned about the con rod bearing. There was literally a mile on the motor. Should I get a new one?

My plan is to get a new piston and rings, try to get only 2 exhaust valves, and maybe put the stock AWM intake valves in. Is it worth putting the stock ones in? Or should I just get supertech SS ones?

Any advice is appreciated.

Well I would just start by making sure the cylinder walls can just be honed and aren't damaged to the point that they need to be bored out larger which would mean replacing all 4 pistons.

What valves are in there now and do you feel like something like this wont happen again with those same valves being used? There is nothing wrong with the OEM stock intake valves, plenty people run those when they upgrade the exhaust valves.

[catbed]

Well I would just start by making sure the cylinder walls can just be honed and aren't damaged to the point that they need to be bored out larger which would mean replacing all 4 pistons.

What valves are in there now and do you feel like something like this wont happen again with those same valves being used? There is nothing wrong with the OEM stock intake valves, plenty people run those when they upgrade the exhaust valves.

I used ferrea exhaust valves and stock intake valves. Cat gold valve springs with stock retainers and keepers. The only thing keeping me from putting the AWM intake valves in is the fact that they have 190k on them.

Any input on the bearing?

[Seerlah]

Since you need to take the rod/piston out anyways, inspect the bearing and crank when you take them out. Also, how you intend to clean that stuff up? Shop vac, then dish soap and water on rag?

[M-Hood]

Since you need to take the rod/piston out anyways, inspect the bearing and crank when you take them out. Also, how you intend to clean that stuff up? Shop vac, then dish soap and water on rag?

yeah that is the best thing to do since that piston/rod will have to come out no matter what.

I used ferrea exhaust valves and stock intake valves. Cat gold valve springs with stock retainers and keepers. The only thing keeping me from putting the AWM intake valves in is the fact that they have 190k on them.

Any input on the bearing?

Well the stock intake valves are solid, so it isn't like they need to be replaced after a period of time like the stock exhaust valves which are sodium filled. So if they are still in good shape there shouldn't be a problem using them still. If you would rather have new valves then I would suggest just getting a brand new set of Supertech SS intake valves which come with new keepers.

[catbed]

Since you need to take the rod/piston out anyways, inspect the bearing and crank when you take them out. Also, how you intend to clean that stuff up? Shop vac, then dish soap and water on rag?

That was I was planning on doing. Should I just look for marks on the bearing surface? I was going to plastigauge it again to verify clearance. As for cleaning, I did not give that much thought yet. I'd like to save as many pieces as trophies lol. I'll probably wipe it down with a soapy rag and look for metal pieces in the pan.

[catbed]

Well the stock intake valves are solid, so it isn't like they need to be replaced after a period of time like the stock exhaust valves which are sodium filled. So if they are still in good shape there shouldn't be a problem using them still. If you would rather have new valves then I would suggest just getting a brand new set of Supertech SS intake valves which come with new keepers.

That's what I wanted to hear. I'm gonna try to fix it this weekend, so I'm probably just going to throw the stock valves in. I don't know if the Supertechs will arrive before then. It sucks being 4 hours away from the car during the week.

The old AWM head will probably be put to use now that the AEB head is trashed. My buddy has an AEB with a few bent valves, but I don't feel like dealing with valve guides right now. So AWM head it is, and I'll probably open up the ports a little bit.

[Seerlah]

Do that, and invest in a magnetic drain plug (I use the 034 one). The ECS one has been known to fall apart on people. Just look for scoring (scratches and scuffs) on both the bearing and crank. And yes, plasti-gauge. The shop vac may be the better option for cleaning, due to the force of the vacuum able to just suck up as many metal peices as possible. After that, just dig out the peices from the shop vac you want to keep (clean shop vac means you can keep all the pieces). Then wipe down the walls before and after you pull the piston with a rag and soap. Little peices will still scrape the cylinder walls when you pull the piston, but a rehone should clean that up.

[catbed]

Do that, and invest in a magnetic drain plug (I use the 034 one). The ECS one has been known to fall apart on people. Just look for scoring (scratches and scuffs) on both the bearing and crank. And yes, plasti-gauge. The shop vac may be the better option for cleaning, due to the force of the vacuum able to just suck up as many metal peices as possible. After that, just dig out the peices from the shop vac you want to keep (clean shop vac means you can keep all the pieces). Then wipe down the walls before and after you pull the piston with a rag and soap. Little peices will still scrape the cylinder walls when you pull the piston, but a rehone should clean that up.

Sounds good. I'll probably end up using a shop vac to clean it all out. How do you feel about re-using the rings on that piston? Not worth the risk? Granted piston rings are only ~$30 but I need it here by this weekend.

[Seerlah]

Since you will be rehoning, you will want new rings.

[M-Hood]

That's what I wanted to hear. I'm gonna try to fix it this weekend, so I'm probably just going to throw the stock valves in. I don't know if the Supertechs will arrive before then. It sucks being 4 hours away from the car during the week.

The old AWM head will probably be put to use now that the AEB head is trashed. My buddy has an AEB with a few bent valves, but I don't feel like dealing with valve guides right now. So AWM head it is, and I'll probably open up the ports a little bit.

Well the Supertech valves could be ordered today and shipped today, can always go with quicker shipping if they wouldn't get to you by Friday going ground.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Do that, and invest in a magnetic drain plug (I use the 034 one). The ECS one has been known to fall apart on people. Just look for scoring (scratches and scuffs) on both the bearing and crank. And yes, plasti-gauge. The shop vac may be the better option for cleaning, due to the force of the vacuum able to just suck up as many metal peices as possible. After that, just dig out the peices from the shop vac you want to keep (clean shop vac means you can keep all the pieces). Then wipe down the walls before and after you pull the piston with a rag and soap. Little peices will still scrape the cylinder walls when you pull the piston, but a rehone should clean that up.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the drain plugs "fall apart" most of the people who have had problems are over torquing it and it snaps. There hasn't been a case where its caused catastrophic engine failure. More or less they snap off reinstalling them and they need to be extracted and replaced with a new one - which of course if that happens we'll take care of it.

I've had mine in my car for long before I was employed by ECS and its been perfect. It did leak a bit at one point only because I forgot to replace the crush washer. New crush washer = worked flawlessly.

Jason

[bmarshall]

Did you have the old lifters out of the head before you assembled it? The lifters my not have been bleed down.

[Dan[FN]6262]

only takes about 30 minutes for the lifters to bleed, and seeing that he had to put the engine back in the car, I seriously doubt it was because of pumped up lifters.

this is just very strange, especially for only revving to ~3.5k rpms. It could have been a manufacturing defect in the Ferrea valve, who knows

[M-Hood]

only takes about 30 minutes for the lifters to bleed, and seeing that he had to put the engine back in the car, I seriously doubt it was because of pumped up lifters.

this is just very strange, especially for only revving to ~3.5k rpms. It could have been a manufacturing defect in the Ferrea valve, who knows

But did the actual valves break or did they just drop right down into the cylinder? Seeing how it happened so soon after starting the engine, it just seems like the keepers must have came off. 1 of the reasons I like the Supertech valves since they actually come with the keepers while the Ferrea valves do not.

[Dan[FN]6262]

But did the actual valves break or did they just drop right down into the cylinder?

I don't think we'll ever be able to determine that.

Seeing how it happened so soon after starting the engine, it just seems like the keepers must have came off. 1 of the reasons I like the Supertech valves since they actually come with the keepers while the Ferrea valves do not.

I just don't see how that could have happened unless the lifter somehow got stuck down, holding open the valve and then the piston came up, and pushed the valve and lifter into the cam when it was on its back around.... if you get what I'm saying. Kinda like valve float, but it was stuck in the open position. Yes, I have to agree that I like that SuperTechs come with new keepers.

[M-Hood]

I don't think we'll ever be able to determine that.




I just don't see how that could have happened unless the lifter somehow got stuck down, holding open the valve and then the piston came up, and pushed the valve and lifter into the cam when it was on its back around.... if you get what I'm saying. Kinda like valve float, but it was stuck in the open position. Yes, I have to agree that I like that SuperTechs come with new keepers.

Well he just has to try and find the keepers and see if they are damaged or if they are just sitting up there.

BTW just talked to IE, the Supertech triple groove valves do not come with new keepers while the single groove do.

[catbed]

So I tore apart the engine last week and disassembled the head. The keepers were set correctly on the valve that broke



I removed the retainer and spring and had a look at the remaining stem.



it broke right at the base of the grooves. The only way this could have happened is a manufacturing defect from ferrea or the valve was side-loaded.

After the spring was removed, I noticed this


You can see where the spring wasnt seated correctly. It was indeed my fault, and I should have noticed it before but what can you do.

Picture of the offending exhaust valve.



And here's my workspace as I swapped heads.

[catbed]

Fast forward the next day, I try to find an AEB piston to replace my FUBARd one. Drove and hour and a half to pick one up but it turns out they didn't have one after waiting ~30 mins. So I wasted a whole day where I could have been working on the car.

I decided to hit up a local junkyard where I know they had a few facelift a4s. Looked all around and there were no pre facelifts. I finally found a 98 passat in the very last row, with a complete engine!! I got to work right away, pulled the head and unbolted the trans. Got my piston out and left the junkyard 3 hours after I got there. Walked out with an AEB head with cams and a piston for $125. What a steal.

Don't have any pictures of the new head, but I got two new exhaust valves and assembled it all. Installed the head and piston in the car and buttoned it all up. I'll be home this weekend to start it up and break it in. I'll post updates when I do.

[Dan[FN]6262]

fucking sweet man.

[catbed]

Another thing, I couldn't get a full 1/4 turn on my ARP crank bolt. It was a little more than an 1/8 turn. I got the 78 ft-lbs but broke an extension trying to get the last 1/4. I red loctited it and I think it may have dried before final torque. Should I break it free and torque it again? It's dowel pinned as well.

[M-Hood]

Fast forward the next day, I try to find an AEB piston to replace my FUBARd one. Drove and hour and a half to pick one up but it turns out they didn't have one after waiting ~30 mins. So I wasted a whole day where I could have been working on the car.

I decided to hit up a local junkyard where I know they had a few facelift a4s. Looked all around and there were no pre facelifts. I finally found a 98 passat in the very last row, with a complete engine!! I got to work right away, pulled the head and unbolted the trans. Got my piston out and left the junkyard 3 hours after I got there. Walked out with an AEB head with cams and a piston for $125. What a steal.

Don't have any pictures of the new head, but I got two new exhaust valves and assembled it all. Installed the head and piston in the car and buttoned it all up. I'll be home this weekend to start it up and break it in. I'll post updates when I do.

If you were just looking for a piston you could have also included a face lift 2000 A4 since it has the same pistons as the AEB.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So, what would cause a spring to not seat right? I'm going to tear into my head to replace the valve springs over the weekend and don't want to encounter the same problems.

[catbed]

So, what would cause a spring to not seat right? I'm going to tear into my head to replace the valve springs over the weekend and don't want to encounter the same problems.

I guess when I put dropped the spring in, it just landed on the side and I didn't notice. Stupid mistake.

BTW, I picked up this valve spring compressor this time around. It is real easy to do the valves with this. I screwed a 2x4 across the top of the head to a 3x3ft piece of wood. Then I clamped that to the table I was working on. Put a 3/8" breaker bar on the spring compressor and have at it. I did need to make a spacer to have enough room to work on the intake valves.

[catbed]

After the valve dropped and I replaced the piston, I fired it up and was greeted by a loud tapping noise. It was too loud to be a lifter and it sounded like it was coming from the bottom end. I couldn't do much at this point so I parked the car two weeks until my spring break, which was the second week of March.