Naudlee's Nogaro Blue 2.8L Precision/Garrett Hybrid GT Build up

[atnek1020]

Siiick.

[shorterthanrich]

Cool, man! Nice solution for the coolant line delete. I was wondering what you would do for the oil-cooled only turbos.

[naudlee]

Cool, man! Nice solution for the coolant line delete. I was wondering what you would do for the oil-cooled only turbos.

Thanks, it seemed to be the only safe solution. I'd really rather not have a looped line flapping around, unless someone can turn me onto some ~3/8" ID caps that are high temp and fluid safe... I was going to bust out the mig and close them up, but who knows the future turbo options, you know...

Were the 2560's oil only? I didnt think so, I'm just curious.

[shorterthanrich]

Thanks, it seemed to be the only safe solution. I'd really rather not have a looped line flapping around, unless someone can turn me onto some ~3/8" ID caps that are high temp and fluid safe... I was going to bust out the mig and close them up, but who knows the future turbo options, you know...

Were the 2560's oil only? I didnt think so, I'm just curious.

Yeah, I wouldn't weld them...and I don't know of any caps. Might as well just loop it as long as its on there nice and tight.

The 2560s are oil and water cooled. It's the Precision CHRA that's oil only, if my understanding is correct.

Put up some turbo pictures!!

[naudlee]

Yeah, I wouldn't weld them...and I don't know of any caps. Might as well just loop it as long as its on there nice and tight.

The 2560s are oil and water cooled. It's the Precision CHRA that's oil only, if my understanding is correct.

Put up some turbo pictures!!

Yeah, I decided to stick with the loop for now... still on the hunt for some nice caps but doubtful they exist for the purpose I need.

Progress has been slow, after finding my gas & electric bills I've been looking for for a month/two now in my bushes I'm a tad broke... an apt and a house, 2 months worth sitting in a bush, not to friendly on the wallet... (THANKS MAILMAN!) I've been pretty broke, but today I hammered out some work...

First and foremost, the junk wheel bearings are out! Impact Hammer on the bolts pushed them right out of the hub! Now off to the machine shop to get my front rotors cut and new bearings and hubs pressed!


Next on the list was installing the exhaust manifolds. I purchased new nuts for the job and were happy to see they are no longer the copper ones that seem to get loose over time... I still used some RED loctite on them anyways. Albeit they are 13mm head vs the old 12mm nuts. I modded some extensions/sockets to make the job easier...


I know you guys have been waiting for some turbo pics... Here they are side by side... .70 Coldside/.48 Hotside Garrett/Precision Hybrids. Interesting...


Rear shot... it's a SUPER tight fit.



Stock return lines are modded with AN fittings... tight squeeze!


And this is how she sits, no risk of debris getting in there... I'm pretty anal about my builds I'm sure you can tell by now


It was a little interesting fitting them up, they both needed to be clocked and played with to get the fitment down. I like the lack of coolant lines, I often wonder if somebody could fit some of the oilless sealed cartridge COMP turbos to the B5... less lines, less mess, less headaches... maybe I'll tackle that one someday. Overall, things went together well, time to order some misc o-rings/gaskets. Enjoy...

[Max@034]

So you are doing oil only? That is what I am running on my single turbo, but I'd be a bit worried about where the turbos sit stock and their lack of airflow already. I guess without the afterrun pump there isn't as much of a reason.

[naudlee]

So you are doing oil only? That is what I am running on my single turbo, but I'd be a bit worried about where the turbos sit stock and their lack of airflow already. I guess without the afterrun pump there isn't as much of a reason.

Oil only for sure!

Airflow, eh not too worried. I havent mocked up the inlets but they should do the job. They're larger than stock sized to feed these monsters. I'd love to run dual intakes and no Y-Pipe (one member tried this w/ little success though), but it's too hot in our bay and no where for that nasty air to escape. I love the hood (looks to do a great job venting!) on the 034 Noggy, something I may have to invest in in the future.

I still havent forgot about the order man, I feel bad I kept having you shoot me invoices.. the mailman fucked me over this week (as described above) haha!

[sfored]

I know you guys have been waiting for some turbo pics... Here they are side by side... .70 Coldside/.48 Hotside Garrett/Precision Hybrids. Interesting...
are those T3 flanges ? .48 hot side on T3s ?

I often wonder if somebody could fit some of the oilless sealed cartridge COMP turbos to the B5... less lines, less mess, less headaches... maybe I'll tackle that one someday.

BAH - I had the oilless - unless desperate; no reason to...lagged .. (granted my wheels were a bit too big-so they said but in return they changed me back to oiled smaller NOT to another oilless smaller...draw your own conclusions..

are those T3 flanges ? .48 hot side on T3s ?
what is the size of the turbo in relative GT series etc ? is the .70 ind/exducer ? - isnt that up there (bigger than a GT30?)

[Max@034]

BAH - I had the oilless - unless desperate; no reason to...lagged .. (granted my wheels were a bit too big-so they said but in return they changed me back to oiled smaller NOT to another oilless smaller...draw your own conclusions..

are those T3 flanges ? .48 hot side on T3s ?
what is the size of the turbo in relative GT series etc ? is the .70 ind/exducer ? - isnt that up there (bigger than a GT30?)

Those look like T3 most definitely, and that cold side does indeed look like its around a 30R size.

What size exhaust wheel do they have? I'll be very curious to see how these run, and imagine you are going to be revving it out pretty good?

I still havent forgot about the order man, I feel bad I kept having you shoot me invoices.. the mailman fucked me over this week (as described above) haha!

No worries! I know how it goes. Keep me updated and I'll watch your thread.

2012 is going to be a crazy year for the B5 S4.

[naudlee]

Those look like T3 most definitely, and that cold side does indeed look like its around a 30R size.

What size exhaust wheel do they have? I'll be very curious to see how these run, and imagine you are going to be revving it out pretty good?



No worries! I know how it goes. Keep me updated and I'll watch your thread.

2012 is going to be a crazy year for the B5 S4.

They are indeed True T3 housings, and I understand your worry. This is basically the revised gt600 kit that Vast produced, which used a huge T3 housing with a TINY exhaust wheel (not many floating out there but Shorterthanrich ran this setup with issues)... as you can see this wheel is a bit larger and the exhaust housing is honestly smaller/albeit it having a bigger wheel than their old gt600 turbo setup.

Here is a pic of MY turbos next to an RS6 OEM BW turbo... Im supposed to keep some info on the turbos under wraps, so I edited the pic and kept the others to myself.

These are the old GT600 kit turbos, Rich ran them, they didn't really perform...





I, too, have my concerns with it performing down low but it is much improved over the old setup, the turbos look much better, we will see. I'm somewhat testing this new setup out. I really hope it performs. Im porting everything I can, chopping my intake manifold up with my own design for more volume, and trying to pull out all the stops to make sure this 2.8liter performs... I really do NOT want to be disappointed.

with that being said...
I had a busy day today but squeezed in a half hour of garage time to fit the inlet pipes... hmnn

Passenger side inlets mounted... I definitely need to bead the ends of these pipes, I DONT want a leak when I put this together


Pass side, so close to that exhaust manifold, eh I need to ceramic coat or wrap these I think... more $ to spend
Also you can see how it hits the engine block mount, not sure if thats an issue or not, I hope not, everything is so tight... eh



Now, onto the drivers side... these fit iffy. I expected them to hug close to the block area like the passenger side did... anything look off Also need to be beaded. and look... rubbing engine block mount





SO... I want to hear your opinions on the inlets... I've dealt with k04 inlets and stockers, wish these had mounting tabs to help secure them and beaded ends... I need to sell the MIG and invest in a nice TIG setup... haha

[Max@034]

That is going to rattle like crazy. I'd trim down the length of the driverside, maybe grind down the passenger side and ding the pipe? They are inlet pipes so they will be under vacuum so they don't need to be beaded. But you better bead the heck out of your outlet pipes!!!!!!!

I ceramic coated my manifolds and wrapped them in ti heat wrap, as well as wrapping my inlet pipes with the ti heat wrap. I can touch the inlet pipes no problem after some runs, but I'm running 2.25" stainless so there is a bit more room then yours.

Considering yours appear to be aluminum, you DEFINITELY got to do something!

I think your concerns are valid but tuning is going to be one of the biggest factors in regards to how the turbos run. It is amazing what some good tuning can do for a slow spooling setup. Obviously hardware is your primary dependent but.... With a full valvetrain and revving above 8000rpm, I could see you still extracting some good powerband, especially with all your work you are doing to open up the ports, which will shine up top.

I would consider moving to an RS4 manifold though. You can port the stocker to come close to big ports, add plenum volume, but you aren't increasing the runner size which is the main hindrance (IMO) on the stock setup. It will also allow you to use a larger throttle body, which with your huge turbos, is going to be a good idea.

[naudlee]

That is going to rattle like crazy. I'd trim down the length of the driverside, maybe grind down the passenger side and ding the pipe? They are inlet pipes so they will be under vacuum so they don't need to be beaded. But you better bead the heck out of your outlet pipes!!!!!!!

I ceramic coated my manifolds and wrapped them in ti heat wrap, as well as wrapping my inlet pipes with the ti heat wrap. I can touch the inlet pipes no problem after some runs, but I'm running 2.25" stainless so there is a bit more room then yours.

Considering yours appear to be aluminum, you DEFINITELY got to do something!

I think your concerns are valid but tuning is going to be one of the biggest factors in regards to how the turbos run. It is amazing what some good tuning can do for a slow spooling setup. Obviously hardware is your primary dependent but.... With a full valvetrain and revving above 8000rpm, I could see you still extracting some good powerband, especially with all your work you are doing to open up the ports, which will shine up top.

I would consider moving to an RS4 manifold though. You can port the stocker to come close to big ports, add plenum volume, but you aren't increasing the runner size which is the main hindrance (IMO) on the stock setup. It will also allow you to use a larger throttle body, which with your huge turbos, is going to be a good idea.

I figured I'd have to trim the DS inlet a bit (waiting on a Y-pipe so I can really mock it all up/final tightening) I will def be beading them anyways, I know its under vac but a leak is a leak and turbos do not take kindly to longtime leaks of sorts regardless. Just preventative measures. And def will be beading the chargepipes, I'm modding a JHM pipe kit w/ my FMIC setup.

Ceramic coating the inlets may have to happen as well as heat wrap... or maybe some gold DEI foil, but I have my doubts on the stuff. Something will be done though, most definitely.

Intake mani is a 2000 OEM mani, cut up and the trumpets smoothed out, volume added, and will be running an RS4/W8 or even a Hemi TB. I plan to coat it as well, and run the Phenolic Spacers for the hell of it.

Rev-band... I think 8k rpm MAXX, so I'm hoping these extra mods/porting and some QUALITY tuning help me. I also am considering getting rid of the Turbosmart wastegates in favor of some 44mm tial's (I've always run tial products and I KNOW it works) where-as its all mixed reviews on the turbosmart stuff. I think Rich had spool issues somewhat related to the WG's/WG spring stiffness (I will bench test them, to see when they crack with the air compressor and regulator)

the main scare... what do you think of the turbos??? I tried to get up some good pics and dug up some of RICH's gt2560's (gt600 vast kit) Mine are supposed to be new and improved, albeit they are totally different (a good thing IMHO)

I'm always up for discussion, all insight is appreciated, please anyone share thoughts/experiences. THANKS!

[Evilevo]

So just speaking from experience here, but you need to ditch the FMIC. If your goal is anywhere close to 600awhp, which I would assume it is with turbos like that, the FMIC is going to be a bottleneck.

I ran the FMIC on my car for probably 25k miles on my GTs. That along with my tuning from VAST and my car never really made the power it should have. When my car was at EPL for tuning, I decided that I needed to swap from the FMIC to the ER SMICS. My car would have picked up 40whp had it not gone stupid retarded rich after the change. I also gained about 300rpm of spool with the ERs compared to the FMIC.

EPL has also had a bunch of big turbo cars with the FMIC and none of them have made the power that they should have. RusS4 couldn't make more than like 425whp on 605s with the FMIC. There were also a bunch of other 605 cars that made similar power on the FMIC.

So in short, ditch the FMIC if you want to make power. NONE of the big power S4s run the FMIC. All either run ERs, AMDs, or Wagners.

[naudlee]

So just speaking from experience here, but you need to ditch the FMIC. If your goal is anywhere close to 600awhp, which I would assume it is with turbos like that, the FMIC is going to be a bottleneck.

I ran the FMIC on my car for probably 25k miles on my GTs. That along with my tuning from VAST and my car never really made the power it should have. When my car was at EPL for tuning, I decided that I needed to swap from the FMIC to the ER SMICS. My car would have picked up 40whp had it not gone stupid retarded rich after the change. I also gained about 300rpm of spool with the ERs compared to the FMIC.

EPL has also had a bunch of big turbo cars with the FMIC and none of them have made the power that they should have. RusS4 couldn't make more than like 425whp on 605s with the FMIC. There were also a bunch of other 605 cars that made similar power on the FMIC.

So in short, ditch the FMIC if you want to make power. NONE of the big power S4s run the FMIC. All either run ERs, AMDs, or Wagners.

I'm not a non-believer in what your saying, as Ive followed your build up and it's quite impressive and you've got the power to back it... but

WHY?!
Why does the fmic not work on these big power setups?
-are these cheap china cores leaking at high PSI,
-the extra length of piping needed (in comparison to running SMIC's) making spool that much slower (makes some sense)
-the extra volume in comparison to SMIC's?
-Heatsoaking? (Logs of IAT's seem to prove otherwise, but I guess there's not many logs on BIG turbo cars)

It just makes no sense when nearly EVERY other "tuner" platform runs huge FMIC cores on their crazy big HP builds. I know the 2.7tt is finicky to begin with, but dont we ask why it works for the rest of the world and not us?

...in for the discussion!

What do you think of the turbos, with comparo pics posted, etc. I wanted 770's but this fell into my lap and why not...

I'm a thinker, I like being creative with my builds as well as cost effective. I sold my bnib AWE's for $1050 and pieced together the FMIC kit w/ jhm piping (to be modded myself anyways) for well under $300. The rest of funds funded BBK, Alcantara seats, etc... I just want to hear some real specific reasoning as to why these FMIC's are NOT working.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, much appreciated!

[Evilevo]

I'm not a non-believer in what your saying, as Ive followed your build up and it's quite impressive and you've got the power to back it... but

WHY?!
Why does the fmic not work on these big power setups?
-are these cheap china cores leaking at high PSI,
-the extra length of piping needed (in comparison to running SMIC's) making spool that much slower (makes some sense)
-the extra volume in comparison to SMIC's?

It just makes no sense when nearly EVERY other "tuner" platform runs huge FMIC cores on their crazy big HP builds. I know the 2.7tt is finicky to begin with, but dont we ask why it works for the rest of the world and not us?

...in for the discussion!

What do you think of the turbos, with comparo pics posted, etc. I wanted 770's but this fell into my lap and why not...

I'm a thinker, I like being creative with my builds as well as cost effective. I sold my bnib AWE's for $1050 and pieced together the FMIC kit w/ jhm piping (to be modded myself anyways) for well under $300. The rest of funds funded BBK, Alcantara seats, etc... I just want to hear some real specific reasoning as to why these FMIC's are NOT working.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, much appreciated!

I believe that it does not support the power or flow for various reasons.

1. It is not a high quality core. It is cheap eBay crap that does not flow very well. JHM lists the core as flowing less than 700CFM. Taken from this thread, that flow rating works out to about 480hp max. Now this is a very rough guestimate from other people's research, but it is actually very in line with the most amount of power I have ever seen out of the FMIC. Now of course there are glory runs and peak HP that are higher. Like my 540whp on a dynojet, but I noticed I had TERRIBLE heatsoak issues with the FMIC, even with 1000cc of Water/Meth.

2. The core is not separated in the center and your two charge pipes are flowing in opposite directions on the top and bottom. This by itself is a terrible design and will cause turbulence. The long charge pipes also cause excessive lag. You are already going to have issues with lag due to your T3 hotside, why increase the lag even more? The overall Cubic Inches is about the same between the ERs and the FMIC at around ~720.


But as you most likely know from other builds, there is a big difference in core quality between ebay and something like Bell or Garrett. IIRC ER uses Bell cores for their SMICs.

And I've lost my train of thought now. Hopefully that was helpful.

[naudlee]

I believe that it does not support the power or flow for various reasons.

1. It is not a high quality core. It is cheap eBay crap that does not flow very well. JHM lists the core as flowing less than 700CFM. Taken from this thread, that flow rating works out to about 480hp max. Now this is a very rough guestimate from other people's research, but it is actually very in line with the most amount of power I have ever seen out of the FMIC. Now of course there are glory runs and peak HP that are higher. Like my 540whp on a dynojet, but I noticed I had TERRIBLE heatsoak issues with the FMIC, even with 1000cc of Water/Meth.

2. The core is not separated in the center and your two charge pipes are flowing in opposite directions on the top and bottom. This by itself is a terrible design and will cause turbulence. The long charge pipes also cause excessive lag. You are already going to have issues with lag due to your T3 hotside, why increase the lag even more? The overall Cubic Inches is about the same between the ERs and the FMIC at around ~720.


But as you most likely know from other builds, there is a big difference in core quality between ebay and something like Bell or Garrett. IIRC ER uses Bell cores for their SMICs.

And I've lost my train of thought now. Hopefully that was helpful.

touche'

-I know these are cheap-o cores and I seem to let that slip my mind... while proven on k03/k04 cars to an extent it makes perfect sense.
-I noted the inlets/outlets on the core, lots of turbulence likely going on there, lots of inefficiency likely and obviously.

I'll be running the FMIC for atleast a little while anyways, need funds to finish the rest of the build as it is, it'll get the motor broken in and we'll at least see how it performs.

Thanks for the insight, i appreciate it!

[Evilevo]

touche'

-I know these are cheap-o cores and I seem to let that slip my mind... while proven on k03/k04 cars to an extent it makes perfect sense.
-I noted the inlets/outlets on the core, lots of turbulence likely going on there, lots of inefficiency likely and obviously.

I'll be running the FMIC for atleast a little while anyways, need funds to finish the rest of the build as it is, it'll get the motor broken in and we'll at least see how it performs.

Thanks for the insight, i appreciate it!

No problem man. Good luck with the build.

[Max@034]

I'll be running the FMIC for atleast a little while anyways, need funds to finish the rest of the build as it is, it'll get the motor broken in and we'll at least see how it performs.

There ya go; it'll be better then stock intercoolers and more then enough for you to run around on a break in tune and milder tune. But yeah, once you stretch those turbos out, especially with their size and the likelihood of them being a high up powerband turbo, the generic FMIC won't cut it and also is going to block air flow to your radiator and engine (something to consider with your oil less turbos.

Are they journal bearing centers or the air cooled ball bearing?

[naudlee]

There ya go; it'll be better then stock intercoolers and more then enough for you to run around on a break in tune and milder tune. But yeah, once you stretch those turbos out, especially with their size and the likelihood of them being a high up powerband turbo, the generic FMIC won't cut it and also is going to block air flow to your radiator and engine (something to consider with your oil less turbos.

Are they journal bearing centers or the air cooled ball bearing?

I'll find all the restrictions in this setup believe me... I'm shooting for Max efficiency with these monsters, if they do not have the good low end I want there will be hell to pay (I'm not expecting k03 spool obv.)! I'm somewhat confident as they are totally new, nobody has them running right now, and they're a big improvement from the junk T3 2560's. The downfall was the huge exhaust side and relatively TINY inducer/exducer in comparison IMHO

Im piecing together my own EFK kit for it as well, no mechanical clutch fan, no AC, it's going to be a daily driven full interior street car but bare bones aside from that.

Good old journal bearing

Anyone have any experience with the 2560's (gt600) and see my above post with the comparison pics of my turbos care to chime in...

[DxC]

regarding the inlets hitting the motor mount, just grind down the metal mount like the tial turbo install instructions tell you to .. no big deal.

also, like max said, the inlet pipes dont need beads or mounting tabs since its under vacuum

we got the TIG plugged in at the shop if u want to dick around with it. only have aluminum filler rod right now though, so feel free to buy some stainless rod and bring it :)

also, as for predictions on the turbos ... its a BIG turbo, and i think you need a lot more displacement to spool them. granted, it is a bigger turbine wheel and compressor wheel so it may do a bit better than the ATP housing GT2560 kit but ... tial 770s really are optimal. tight A/R, nice compressor wheel ... cant be beat. it may be a high HP monster, but its going to have nothing down low at all. consider some nitrous to spool those babies up

[jibberjive]

After you shave down the mount, if you're still worried about the inlets rattling on them, you can try what I did. I got some high temp silicone hose that I was using for vacuum line, and cut a 3" section. I sliced it down the middle, and flayed it over the edge where they were touching, so it made a nicer rubber barrier for them.

And as was said, those inlets aren't under pressure, so no need to bead roll.

[naudlee]

I figured Id be grinding the mount... I just dont get why while these were mocked up before they were shipped to me they did not test fit/grind before they powdercoated the block mounts... kind of defeats the purpose IMHO. I dont care as it will not be seen, but its the little things you know...

Dave, I will have to try out the tig one of these days, it's definitely something I'd like to invest in, in the future.
and I really hope I dont need some n20 to get these guys spooling, haha. The motor will be back out and a new setup would be going in if it were that bad... time will tell
see you Friday morning

I know they're not under pressure, its just the silicone couplers are almost a tad too large for the OD of the pipes, they really need to be squeezed down to get a good clamp/seal, I'd just feel better if I knew they were more secure so I'll bead em'

[jibberjive]

I just dont get why while these were mocked up before they were shipped to me they did not test fit/grind before they powdercoated the block mounts... kind of defeats the purpose IMHO. I dont care as it will not be seen, but its the little things you know...

Welcome to the bane of my Audi aftermarket experience. There has literally been like one or two things that I've bought that weren't a headache/disappointment. Gotta do what you gotta do to get it running though.

BTW, I wouldn't go with the 44mm wastegates, stick with the 38mm Tial MVS', they flow well more than enough.

[shorterthanrich]

Nick, in my opinion, these turbos are not going to have very much down low. That just doesn't happen with turbos these large. Look at Adam, for example. These turbos are more along the size of his. Granted that the turbine housing, turbine, and compressor are much better matched than the GT600 setup, but you can't expect a miracle. The mid-range should be pretty fun, and the top end should be pretty absurd.

That said, I have a feeling these will spool similarly to the GT600 setup, (given that they're larger, but are better matched) but will be moving a LOT more air per PSI, so you're acceleration curve should be substantially better than mine was, even if your boost profile ends up being similar.

Also, you're a 2.8L and that should help, for what its worth. But just look at the sheer size of these turbos. That turbine wheel is huuuge. I guess one more favorable factor is the compressor inducer to exducer ratio is pretty giant. A smaller inducer relative to the exducer does improve spool at the sacrifice of some top end, and the ratio on these turbos looks pretty huge to me.

[naudlee]

Welcome to the bane of my Audi aftermarket experience. There has literally been like one or two things that I've bought that weren't a headache/disappointment. Gotta do what you gotta do to get it running though.

BTW, I wouldn't go with the 44mm wastegates, stick with the 38mm Tial MVS', they flow well more than enough.

Seriously! I feel if I, myself, did the R&D and fab work this wouldn't be of issue. Why do the big guys get away with it at times. Who knows, there's lots of variables I guess... I'm just more used to the DIY scene with my builds, I feel the B5 platform could benefit from some people thinking outside the box and trying various different options.

I need to see what flange mine are for, always used the 44mm Tials in the past I haven't much experience with their newer 38mm Vband MVS options... same flange I'm guessing?

[Evilevo]

Seriously! I feel if I, myself, did the R&D and fab work this wouldn't be of issue. Why do the big guys get away with it at times. Who knows, there's lots of variables I guess... I'm just more used to the DIY scene with my builds, I feel the B5 platform could benefit from some people thinking outside the box and trying various different options.

I need to see what flange mine are for, always used the 44mm Tials in the past I haven't much experience with their newer 38mm Vband MVS options... same flange I'm guessing?

The MVS is a vbanded gate. They are what I run.

[NogaroWonda00]

The MVS is a vbanded gate. They are what I run.

38's are cute. :)

If I ever do a DD S4 again, I'm still going to go single, there is just entirely too much stuff in these engine bays... Talk about FMIC's sucking, well I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact inlets run right next to exhaust manifolds... Or that it circulates around the engine bay 2 times! Lmao

Btw if you do go FMIC, buy a precision core, build your own end tanks. Problem solved.

[Evilevo]

38's are cute. :)

If I ever do a DD S4 again, I'm still going to go single, there is just entirely too much stuff in these engine bays... Talk about FMIC's sucking, well I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact inlets run right next to exhaust manifolds... Or that it circulates around the engine bay 2 times! Lmao

Btw if you do go FMIC, buy a precision core, build your own end tanks. Problem solved.

Right, I am not saying that all FMICs suck. Just that the ebay/JHM one "designed" for the S4 sucks. I am sure it is very possible to make a proper FMIC with a good core and have it be efficient. But it is just easier to get ERs and be done with it. You also don't have all that bullshit up in the bumper and blocking your radiator. You can mount an oil cooler up front where it will get a lot of airflow also.

[nefkntym]

I couldn't agree more with the statements about the Tial MVS, absolutely an amazing wastegate for the size and price. I had one on my stroked 2.3 Talon with an FP Red (60-1), I never had any problems with boost control. I had one on my VR6 project but I decided move to a different motor before I got to get any good use out of it.

I would also say if you get a TIG, I would keep the MIG as well. The MIGs come in very handy when you just need tack something but need to use a hand to hold something. You can then transfer to a TIG setup with a vice or whatever. I have a Forney MIG and Miller Diversion 180 TIG at home. That diversion 180 has been great for home use and it has the ability to use 115 or 220 by just swapping plugs and not having to make any strapping changes.

[NogaroWonda00]

Right, I am not saying that all FMICs suck. Just that the ebay/JHM one "designed" for the S4 sucks. I am sure it is very possible to make a proper FMIC with a good core and have it be efficient. But it is just easier to get ERs and be done with it. You also don't have all that bullshit up in the bumper and blocking your radiator. You can mount an oil cooler up front where it will get a lot of airflow also.

airflow shouldnt be an issue, i mean you should try and leave as much space in between the radiator and the fmic for obvious reasons other than air flow.. but id also venture to guess that the non china cores flow more air through and around the IC anyways. besides oil coolers are fairly easy to mount where the smics would go.

you are right though, that core from ebay is the same one they sell for 300zx's, so its not designed for our cars, but im guessing thats what point you are trying to make. lol

[Max@034]

Highly recommend the Tial MVS 38mm, it is incredibly compact compared to other WG. I am using the Tial MVR 44mm on my single build, can't believe how much smaller it is then a normal style. They are just the most proven WG out there, and the only thing we will use on our race cars.

[naudlee]

Highly recommend the Tial MVS 38mm, it is incredibly compact compared to other WG. I am using the Tial MVR 44mm on my single build, can't believe how much smaller it is then a normal style. They are just the most proven WG out there, and the only thing we will use on our race cars.

I just was not 100% on the fact the 44mm and the 38mm MVS gate used the same sized vband flange... guess they do! I'm definitely doing to bench test these Turbosmart 40mm gates I have in my posession for the hell of it and see what I find, they look like a bitch to install compared to the Tials... I like simplicity

I will post some new updates tonight... spent some QT with the S4 today

[shorterthanrich]

I just was not 100% on the fact the 44mm and the 38mm MVS gate used the same sized vband flange... guess they do! I'm definitely doing to bench test these Turbosmart 40mm gates I have in my posession for the hell of it and see what I find, they look like a bitch to install compared to the Tials... I like simplicity

I will post some new updates tonight... spent some QT with the S4 today

Why do the tial gates seem easier to install than the Turbosmart? Just size, or is there another difference?

If I had the dough I'd upgrade to the Tial for peace of mind, but then again there are plenty of people out there who like the turbosmart.

[naudlee]

They were always super easy to clamp and mount in my past experiences, nothing compared to your experiences with the TS gates... I dont know why

Why do the tial gates seem easier to install than the Turbosmart? Just size, or is there another difference?

If I had the dough I'd upgrade to the Tial for peace of mind, but then again there are plenty of people out there who like the turbosmart.

[jibberjive]

38's are cute. :)

Says the guy with a turbo outlet connected directly to his intake manifold

[AudiSportB5S4]

I love those Grey valve covers... Same they had on the Project IX car.. I loved driving that thing around Detroit MAN was that fun.

[naudlee]

Looks like not so much, but this was a full days worth of work...

P/S block mount met mr. grinder...


P/S inlet also met mr. hammer, clearance needed...


Success, clearance looks good, still want to weld a tab to the factory inlet mount for added peace of mind...


D/S inlet was chopped and dented also, fits much better...


Dropped my 332mm Stoptech rotors and new hubs/wheel bearings at my local machine shop for some love. Mannn... I cant wait to get the calipers done, I love me some brakes!


Spent a couple hours with degreaser, a scrub brush, soap, scouring pads... all wheel wells got the treatment but its still not what I'd hoped. Much better than before, can't expect perfection on a car that was a DD for years...


Wheelbearings/hubs on and rotors just mocked...



brand new RavenMS studs have been installed as well, spent today pressure-testing my brothers S4 to find the usual torn TBB, gave him my spare and all is well...

[naudlee]

some new...

ravenMS studs installed all around, and had to mock up my BBK... ignore the ugly, thats next...


Spent a good bit of time cleaning parts for the longblock this was the PS pump/pulley/hdwe


Intake manifold met the angle grinder... I will be porting this (hopefully get ahold of some quality carbide bits tomorrow) /cleaning up the horrible OEM casting flaws, and my own sheet aluminum plenum design Tig welded up



Highlighted in red is one of the trumpets that blocks flow directly in front of the throttle body, this has to be some sort of a restriction if I have ever seen one...


hopefully tomorrow I can keep up the progress, I've been spending long hours in the garage mainly due to how greasy/grimy all the parts have been that need to be swapped over to my longblock...

[naudlee]

Spent today exchanging my Craftsman compressor at sears, already died on me after maybe 6 uses... new ones good for now... Also purchased some carbide bits for my air grinder to port the IM with.

Hours of cleaning led to a clean starter, trans spacer, Tb, and the Alternator... as installed here


Coolant hardpipe fittted (new o-rings and some lube), aux delete hose, and new green coolant temp sensor fitted...


It's starting to look more and more like a motor thats capable of running... once the intake manifold is done and on there, it'll start to really come together. So much time spent cleaning grease/grit off old parts, I want to be able to see where/if any leaks on the fresh build...

[naudlee]

another day another chance to get the S4 closer to being done...

started out with the turbosmart 40mm wastegates, as I'm pretty skeptical about other gates that Tial's (past experiences), I made sure to bench test them


diy tester I made, regulated @ the tank...


Wastegate shut


Wastegates BOTH began to crack around 18-20psi, gives me a little peace of mind... RICH, you ever test yours out? just curious


Loose-fit to their flanges on the exhaust manifolds for now... still need to figure out perfect orientation/source some new plumbing/fittings for them as I only got enough for 1 WG...


Cardboard mock-up or my sheet aluminum plenum design... ASP spent quite some time testing/researching their's and this is modeled after it. Theres has a 1" rise, mine being 1.5" (I dont have an AUX pump to clear, albeit it still should clear with one installed) hoping a little extra room for an 80mm TB to breathe...



This is what an hour and a half worth of porting gets you... not much, I think I'll dedicate a full day to the IM as it makes a HUGE mess, and I dont want to have to keep cleaning up aluminum shavings... My plans are not to go crazy, just clean it up, polish the trumpets out, no burs, no cast flaws, just smooth!


any thoughts/insight is always appreciated...