B6 Turbo Build, Questions and Updates

[KFizz]

So tomorrow I pull the trigger on a new turbo. I've been going back and forth for a while between GTRS and Frankenturbo, and I've leaned to both sides from one time to another. Anyhow funds are in place. Car is running like total shit and the weather is getting worse every day, so it's time to do something.

The current situation is this; ko3 is shot to hell, leaking oil into both the exhaust and the intake. It needs to go, obviously. My installed mods are listed in my sig. These are my options:
Frankenturbo kit, we're all familiar with it and what it comes with. $1,528.00 to my door with all the hardware needed (Franken kit, install kit ($210))
GTRS Eliminator, to my door for $1498.00, basically just the turbo and gaskets. Again I think most people know what is included with this.

So here is my dilemma. GTRS is actually slightly cheaper, making it very appealing. However my software isn't exactly optimal for it. Is a GTRS on Uni 2+ going to develop more power than a Franken? Software updating likely won't be in the budget until summer. Should the fact that I'm not getting the high flow manifold concern me?

I'd like everyone's thoughts. I'm very torn at the moment. Last night I was planning on buying the Franken, but after seeing the duty and brokerage charges on it, I'm having second thoughts.

Cast your vote.

I'll turn this in to my build documentary when I receive the turbo. I have a couple other projects planned I'll be including as well.

[Antoinebourdeau]

My vote would go to the GTRS with stock (ported) manifold. You can upgrade from there down the line.
you should be able to simply upgrade your 2+ to stg 3 and only pay the difference no?

[MmmBoost]

Point #1 don't ship via courier and you won't have to pay brokerage or duty. You will still have to pay GST though.

Point #2 We don't know what your goals/plans are.....so we can't help you decide what turbo.

Point #3 You're going to need a proper stage 3 tune if you're going to run a GTRS. You're probably going to need larger fuel injectors for both setups......which means you'll need a different tune for the FT as well.

[viceprp]

Uni 2+ will be fine for the FT but I believe you need to upgrade to 415cc inj anyhow. With that being said, those are the same Inj that you would run on the GTRS elim.

As for software, I believe this is how it goes:
You bought the Uni 2+ $500
Uni 3 is $850
_________
You pay the difference of $350 for the upgrade.

These setups are night and day for you. FT will be an instant spool ~230whp car. It will be a fun/quick ride. The GTRS is a slightly more powerful setup that can easily break 280whp with the right mods. It's a M3 eater.

[KFizz]

Well I dont really have any lofty HP goals so much. As far as engine performance parts go. I will be installing an exhaust system and intercooler (intercooler will be chosen to meet the needs of the turbo I go with) I would potentially run W/M in the future as well. Thats pretty well it for engine performance plans. I'll be replacing the coils with the 2.0FSI ones with the spacers Issam was selling. <**- This will be happening in the following weeks.

As far as software goes. The change from Uni 2+ to BT is "simple", but a $650 cost. I was also under the impression that 2+ was sufficient for the franken. I do currently run the TT225 injectors.

[Staz]

this + send it out to forced performance and have it converted into a HTA or just put a new compressor wheel in it and call it a day .. happy times !

[MmmBoost]

Except then he'd need a manifold

[Staz]

Except then he'd need a manifold

true. i think for the price of the manifold + turbo + converting it, itll come out to about the same and hell be putting down more power :)

[M-Hood]

true. i think for the price of the manifold + turbo + converting it, itll come out to about the same and hell be putting down more power :)

If he sends it to FP to have a HTA wheel put on that turbo it will end up coming back with a 3" inlet .60 a/r compressor housing. So they actually swap out the wheel and the compressor housing.

[A4SoftWalker]

Then he will need rods to prevent in the future

[Charles.waite]

I'm pretty sure you guys aren't helping the OP at all...

Do you want instant spool for very useable but modest HP? Get the Franken.

Do want bigger hp with a stronger pull up top? I think thats GTRS territory.

I'm no turbo expert though. Hell I'm only stage 1 and will likely never step up above a K04. So take my advice however you will.

[doublezero30]

you could always buy my car, already stage 3 GTRS with IE Rods. ill give you a great price on it too

[KFizz]

Staz - I've looked at your items in the classified a few times. I guess there are 2 reasons I dont really want to go that route. 1st is having to install a different exhaust manifold. This is actually one of the reasons I'm leaning away from the Franken. The second is I need a working turbo right away, yesterday. I dont have the schedule room to send it away.

I know the franken spools really quick, but I didn't think the GTRS was the polar opposite by any means. My understanding is the GTRS spools only slightly later than the franken would and this is acceptable to me.

Rods and that are the other issue. I do not currently want to re-build my engine. So I'm really not shooting for absolute hp goals. I think I would be more than happy at around 300. Again, supporting mods are not in place yet for this.

[MmmBoost]

Go with the GTRS on the stock mani. You'll wish you had once you install the FT and go...."that's it?"

KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid


It's a proven setup and has put a lot of smiles on a lot of faces.

[Staz]

ive been driving on a blown turbo for id say about 2 months now 1.8 NA FTMFW !

[MmmBoost]

Just do this and call it a day...

[KFizz]

Just do this and call it a day...

Neat-O! Is this your setup Chris? loud I bet

[Charles.waite]

Just do this and call it a day...

Is that plate so squirrels don't get into it?

[BerNur]

i have a frankenturbo for sale... only had it for 2 oil changes 6 months less then 3k miles... my car sits a lot dough..

[9744RR]

GTRS!

[Turbavanttro]

Go with the GTRS on the stock mani. You'll wish you had once you install the FT and go...."that's it?"

KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid


It's a proven setup and has put a lot of smiles on a lot of faces.

this would be my suggestion as well. dont overthink it, you'll enjoy the power based on your stated goals.

[EBG 18T]

Just get the franken. You will be able to run your current software and injectors for now. you will still need exhaust and FMIC over th winter, but it will l,it you out of pocket right now.

[dougyfresh]

Then he will need rods to prevent in the future

No you don't. You can run a GTRS safely with 300awhp on a stock motor. People who blow motors with a GT28RS/GTRS are greedy. Set it to 21psi of boost and leave it alone. Plenty of power to enjoy driving the car for what it costs to get there.

[dougyfresh]

Go with the GTRS on the stock mani. You'll wish you had once you install the FT and go...."that's it?"

KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid


It's a proven setup and has put a lot of smiles on a lot of faces.

/\

THIS.

9 out of 10 people who do something smaller than a GTRS ultimately go to a GTRS and are then happy.

[vinny.dtw]

I also vote GTRS. The spool characteristics differences are minimal, why spend all that money for a k04 variant that will fall flat on its face before 5k rpms...The area under the curve for a GTRS is better imo for an enthusiast unless you auto-x and stay in 1-2 gears...

[misterjj2u]

GTRS

[kneel]

GTRS

I've done the KO4 & FT - not worth it in the long run!

[KFizz]

Alright polls are closed. Overwhelming win for the GTRS. And not that I'm basing my purchase on the votes entirely, that isn't the case. More importantly the handful of people I consider to be the foremost authorities on this forum have unanimously stated GTRS. So that's basically it, parts have been ordered. Should have the turbo and a few other little goodies showing up in the next 10 days or so.

Thanks to everyone who posted. I value all of your opinions a great deal.

I'll update later with my gameplan for the next couple months.

[MmmBoost]

WIN!

[DBM]

I just learned...so much.

The way most people talk on here makes it seem like a FT is the only turbo to go with if you don't want to have to do rods, which was exactly the impression I was under.

Great thread, great info

[KFizz]

Yes. I agree. Which was sort of the impression I was under. Hense why I was leaning FT earlier. The only reason i reconsidered the GTRS was because its available really cheap right near where I live. Which put the 2 very close cost wise. Im glad I went the route I did. And again im really thankful for everyones input. The people who seem to know the most about our vehicles all said GTRS. For me that says something.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

A word of advice though. Unless you have the proper supporting mods in place like a 3 in exhaust, FMIC, etc... You're not going to see anywhere near what the elim is fully capable of. If you only have a total of $1600 ish to sink into this, get the Frankenturbo. I've ran a K03. K04-015, K04 Hybrid that was just like a F4L, GTRS elim and now a 60-1. The Frankenturbo kit comes with pretty much everything you need and it'll run fine on your 2+ tune. If you go with the elim, you'll be dumping in an extra $1000 by the time it's all over just to get it running right. You'll probably need to spend more to get the max potential out of it.

I don't work for Frankenturbo, I don't work for ATP and I'm not going to loose any sleep over what you decide. The extent of my caring about it is pretty much limited to this post. But take my advice for what it's worth. I just want to let you know what you're getting into.

Oh, and by the way, if you do something stupid like leaving a chunk of silicone coupler in your intake and trash the turbo on startup (like I did to my 60-1) Slappy will send you another CHRA overnight for $125. With the elim, you'll be looking at a month and $400-500 to replace the CHRA if Garrett decides it's rebuildable, if not, then you're SOL and paying $800 for a new 2860 CHRA.

[KFizz]

THE PLAN

Step 1 - Turbo Swap
-Install Turbo
-Drop and Replace Oil and Coolant
-New Valve Cover Gasket
-New Plugs (BKR7E)

So as mentioned earlier, getting the turbo installed in the car is top priority. The K04 is going to explode any day now. I’ll put new plugs in, I’m sure all the oil by car has been sucking in has ruined them. Last time I pulled my coilpacks out I noticed there is some oil leaking onto the plugs via the valve cover gasket. I’ll be replacing that now while I’m in the area. I’m sure new oil and coolant are recommended with a turbo install. Even if it’s not necessary my oil and coolant have been mixing slightly, so they need replacing. I have a fuel filter sitting in my trunk that I plan to install, it’s overdue.


Step 2 - Ignition
-New Coilpacks (2.0T FSI, red top)
-Coilpack Adapters from INA
-034 Carbon Coil Cover

This is another area that just needs replacing, coilpacks are looking a little rough. Seems like most people have been happy with the results of the 2.0T coilpacks so I’ll give them a whirl. I think this setup looks pretty awesome too. I’ll be shooting to get this done within a couple weeks of the turbo swap.


Step 3 - Fueling
-440cc Injectors
-Unitronic BT File
-Fuel Pump (Walbro?)
-034 PCV Replacement Kit

Pretty straight forward. This is where I try and get some more power out of the turbo. I already run a Uni file so it makes sense to stick with them. Fuel pump I’m not too sure on. I could use some input on this one. PCV kit is just one of those things that I know is going to fail, I may as well get it done sooner rather than later.


Misc
-Exhaust
-Intercooler
-TIP
-Methanol Injection

I know that these are “necessary” parts. I understand the importance of having them in place. Maybe not so much the meth, I just want it. I’ll probably just keep my eyes peeled for these items to pop up in the classifieds or wait for group buys. I’ll pick them up as they become available, but they are the lower priority at the moment.


I know this isn't the most exciting build, not by a long stretch. I'm going to try and document it as best I can regardless. I’ll photograph as much as I can. Progress won’t be overly quick. I have a budget to maintain, limited access to a proper garage and the weather here is not great for this type of work. It is what it is. More or less I just want to keep all my questions and posts contained to the one thread, lest I pollute our forum… I’m going to have a lot of questions and probably a hand full of issues. I’ll be reading lots of the other build threads over the next week. Feel free to comment as you wish. I enjoy everyone’s input.

[EBG 18T]

I would move the misc stuff & Step 3 items up in priority. I am not sure i would run the GTRS with the Uni S2 file. I have this feeling you will be running things lean without the proper fueling and file. Again this isn't my motor, just looking out so you don't run into other issues.

[M-Hood]

I would move the misc stuff & Step 3 items up in priority. I am not sure i would run the GTRS with the Uni S2 file. I have this feeling you will be running things lean without the proper fueling and file. Again this isn't my motor, just looking out so you don't run into other issues.

Should be moved up into #1 since the injectors/tuning should be done at the same time the turbo is put in.

[613B6]

GTRS vote here!!

[KFizz]

I would move the misc stuff & Step 3 items up in priority. I am not sure i would run the GTRS with the Uni S2 file. I have this feeling you will be running things lean without the proper fueling and file. Again this isn't my motor, just looking out so you don't run into other issues.

I was told by the turbo supplier that running it on the Uni S2 file would be fine for the time being. The turbo will just supply the boost requested by the file right? I dont run a MBC, so I won't be cranking the boost up anything. But the major reason for not doing it right away is cost honestly. I don't have the funds ready to reflash at the moment. I still hope to get this all done in the next couple months. It couldn't hurt to let the turbo break-in for a month at low boost anyhow. Plus its cold as balls and I don't want it over stressed.

[vinny.dtw]

To simply put it...your turbo supplier is a retard.

Can you do it? Possibly. Should you do it? Probably not. If your process is only a few days, then I'd say you are more or so Ok...few weeks of daily driving? Not such a good idea.

In laymen terms your tune is requesting for an xx amount of air at xx psi. Your GTRS will provide A LOT more air at xx psi then your k03 will. More air + not enough injectors for fuel to compensate for the air = running lean. Running lean for too long = engine kaboom.

But like I said...it's a recommendation. Good luck buddy, hope that helps.

[Antoinebourdeau]

I would group as following.. the injectors and file is more important then spark plugs and fsi coils
at that point, the order for step 2-3 isn't as important. I would however do fmic and exhaust before doing meth, fuel pump etc

Step 1
-gtrs
-Drop and Replace Oil and Coolant
-New Valve Cover Gasket
-440cc Injectors
-Unitronic BT File

Step 2
-New Coilpacks (2.0T FSI, red top)
-Coilpack Adapters from INA
-034 Carbon Coil Cover
-New Plugs (BKR7E)

Step 3
-Fuel Pump (Walbro?)
-034 PCV Replacement Kit

[KFizz]

Damn I'm becoming worried now. I was under the impression the file would still keep the turbo in check, mistakenly aparently. What if I did run a MBC and just kept the boost down? Would this eliminate, or at least lessen the chances of running lean? I suppose I could just unplug the N75 as well, if it came to that. Until I could get the file and injectors.

Well it's good this is comming up now. I want to make sure I'm as ready as possible when this thing arrives. Alright well I guess I'll try to accelerate the injectors and reflash then. Put the coilpacks on hold. I was thinking the feul pump was more of a requirement. If not then I'll backburner that aswell.

Alright thanks guys. I'll proceed on a slightly different route then.