MikeyB3's S4-770R Build

[Alex818]

Congrats man, can't wait to see it in person.

[MikeyB3]

Congrats man, can't wait to see it in person.

You and me both dude. We'll have to get everyone together.

[S4 00 2.7]

Yep, nice and smooth.

[MikeyB3]

Yep, nice and smooth.

Kinda. Before the car went down, I was having problems with misfiring on cyls 4,5,6. After some testing and diagnosing, couldn't figure it out. So, it was running fine, just the occasional misfire.
In the video, when they come around the back, you can hear the idle get a little rough. Discovered that it was a Cam Tensioner. HA! Took a build to figure it out. Thankfully, one is on the way and should be here tomorrow and we'll be on track once again later this week.

Then there's some break-in miles that'll happen, and then she goes down to EPL for some EPLove. I'll post pics/vids as I get them, as well as logs. I'll keep the EPL locals posted and maybe you guys can swing by and take some pics, vids for me. ... since I'm about the furthest person from my car.

[613B6]

badass build, GL with the rest!

[shorterthanrich]

Kinda. Before the car went down, I was having problems with misfiring on cyls 4,5,6. After some testing and diagnosing, couldn't figure it out. So, it was running fine, just the occasional misfire.
In the video, when they come around the back, you can hear the idle get a little rough. Discovered that it was a Cam Tensioner. HA! Took a build to figure it out. Thankfully, one is on the way and should be here tomorrow and we'll be on track once again later this week.

Then there's some break-in miles that'll happen, and then she goes down to EPL for some EPLove. I'll post pics/vids as I get them, as well as logs. I'll keep the EPL locals posted and maybe you guys can swing by and take some pics, vids for me. ... since I'm about the furthest person from my car.

Wow! Damn B5s, man, haha. Seriously, so much stuff is being cleaned up with the build! Jealousy!

[MikeyB3]

Update:

Car is still misfiring on bank 2. There's skepticism as to what's causing it. I havent seen the car in so long, I honestly have no clue. But I know The Marks are working hard to get it right. Misfiring at idle, seems to go away a little under load, but still is not firing perfectly. They're wondering if the chain might have stretched some, because when they log it, they can see the misfires.

Also, does anyone know if there's 2 types of 2.8 cams? We're trying to rule everything out, and swap out parts to get her back on track.

Wind was taken from my sails this morning. Was supposed to go to EPL today. *sigh* Someone please tell me that it's going to be okay. I'm reaching the end of my patience-rope here.

[MCFLYYY]

This thread was a very entertaining detour at work...all up until that last post. Now I'm depressed

[wdbdy2000s4]

Update:

Car is still misfiring on bank 2. There's skepticism as to what's causing it. I havent seen the car in so long, I honestly have no clue. But I know The Marks are working hard to get it right. Misfiring at idle, seems to go away a little under load, but still is not firing perfectly. They're wondering if the chain might have stretched some, because when they log it, they can see the misfires.

Also, does anyone know if there's 2 types of 2.8 cams? We're trying to rule everything out, and swap out parts to get her back on track.

Wind was taken from my sails this morning. Was supposed to go to EPL today. *sigh* Someone please tell me that it's going to be okay. I'm reaching the end of my patience-rope here.

The entire bank or a few cyllinders? Any cam position codes? Have them swap ICMs quickly and see what happens. Give me a call if you still have my number, it can only be a handful of things.

[GURUMAN]

The entire bank or a few cyllinders? Any cam position codes? Have them swap ICMs quickly and see what happens. Give me a call if you still have my number, it can only be a handful of things.

or wrong intake cam in head

[MikeyB3]

The entire bank or a few cyllinders? Any cam position codes? Have them swap ICMs quickly and see what happens. Give me a call if you still have my number, it can only be a handful of things.

I dont think I ever had your number :P PM it to me.

@Guru, we were thinking the same thing. Though I think that they were having problems finding part numbers or something because the cam doesnt have a number on it, iirc. Oddly though, if it's the wrong cam, then why's it working on Bank 1 without issue?

@MCFLYYY: Thanks man. It's been a really good road, but the time taken and the hiccups right now are now delaying my driving it.

[S4James]

i dont think they swapped intake cams guru... my moron mechanic did that to me, and it was piston kissing the valves... car was completly knackered. not a few misfire

[S4 00 2.7]

Say it aint so. Hope shes running soon.

[Max@034]

The difference from the 2.8L to 2.7L intake cam isn't something thats going to be distinguishable without some very careful profile measurements. The other issue is that cams get worn too, and yes there are no part numbers on the cams, only casting numbers.

Where did you get the cams? Is there a chance they could be swapped, so you have a 2.7L intake cam in one head and a 2.8L intake cam in the other? Mismatched cams like that would be misfiring the whole bank like you are experiencing.

However, there are still things like the ignition system, that part of the wiring loom, etc. Hope you get things figured out soon, but if you are getting consistent misfires in that bank, it definitely does sound head related.

Who did the install? Sure everything got timed correctly between the cams? Can you have them take a photo of the links?

[MikeyB3]

The difference from the 2.8L to 2.7L intake cam isn't something thats going to be distinguishable without some very careful profile measurements. The other issue is that cams get worn too, and yes there are no part numbers on the cams, only casting numbers.

Where did you get the cams? Is there a chance they could be swapped, so you have a 2.7L intake cam in one head and a 2.8L intake cam in the other? Mismatched cams like that would be misfiring the whole bank like you are experiencing.

However, there are still things like the ignition system, that part of the wiring loom, etc. Hope you get things figured out soon, but if you are getting consistent misfires in that bank, it definitely does sound head related.

Who did the install? Sure everything got timed correctly between the cams? Can you have them take a photo of the links?

I got the heads from a friend, and while I feel it's unlikely, I cant rule out that one of the cams might be different. East Coast European did the install, and they've taken extra care making sure everything is working properly. I think we're close.

I mentioned before that there's the possibility that the cam chain might be stretched some, as this problem was semi-prevalent when the car had the OEM 2.7 heads on it. They were in the car when I called. I should hear something by EOD today. There's a slew of things that could be causing, like you said. Just gotta rule out one at a time.

[MikeyB3]

Apologies for not having a whole lot of info coming in at the moment. The car is still misfiring. After ruling out a number of things, including mechanical, and electrical, including speculation of a bad driver on the ECU, we think we've got it down to a bad CCT, again. So, we're replacing the brand new one, and seeing what's what.

[shorterthanrich]

Apologies for not having a whole lot of info coming in at the moment. The car is still misfiring. After ruling out a number of things, including mechanical, and electrical, including speculation of a bad driver on the ECU, we think we've got it down to a bad CCT, again. So, we're replacing the brand new one, and seeing what's what.

Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhh

Damn cam chain tensioner...

[MikeyB3]

Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhh

Damn cam chain tensioner...

Well, there's also another, more complex potential issue. We're going to try out the CCT when that comes in today. But, the brilliant minds trying to figure this out have thought that there might be a leak in the actual block, preventing the CCT from actuating properly. Which might explain why it was misfiring before. HOPEFULLY, the CCT is the culprit, because right now, having them rip the heads off and dive in again isnt something I want to happen. *sigh*

[Max@034]

Well, there's also another, more complex potential issue. We're going to try out the CCT when that comes in today. But, the brilliant minds trying to figure this out have thought that there might be a leak in the actual block, preventing the CCT from actuating properly. Which might explain why it was misfiring before. HOPEFULLY, the CCT is the culprit, because right now, having them rip the heads off and dive in again isnt something I want to happen. *sigh*

Unfortunately this sounds like a fairly standard S4 build. =(

However, CCT are a really basic contraption; they just use oil pressure and have a simple solenoid that adjusts that. When they go bad, either the seals have worn enough/distorted that it cannot build pressure, or the solenoid goes bad (much more rare, since its a basic solenoid). Beyond that, there are only about 8 actual components of the CCT.

Are you sure the correct one was installed? They can be installed improperly, pushing up rather then down if put in the incorrect head. Doublecheck part numbers.

I know it seems very unlikely but...cams are so easy to get confused. You are having the exact same issues as someone would have with the wrong cam; misfires at idle low load.

I did my GT build with 2.8L heads but stock lower block. Finally got everything back together after months and months, only to find that one of my piston rings had gone bad after everything was put together. Had to to then build the whole motor; another 6-7 months later. It is rare to have a build with no hangups. Just keep the positivity going. I hadn't driven mine in 12+ months after thousands and thousands of dollars.

-Max

PS. Have you done a leakdown test yet?!?! Any actual leak/issue in the block should show up with a leakdown (Not compression test, leakdown test).

[MikeyB3]

Unfortunately this sounds like a fairly standard S4 build. =(

However, CCT are a really basic contraption; they just use oil pressure and have a simple solenoid that adjusts that. When they go bad, either the seals have worn enough/distorted that it cannot build pressure, or the solenoid goes bad (much more rare, since its a basic solenoid). Beyond that, there are only about 8 actual components of the CCT.

Are you sure the correct one was installed? They can be installed improperly, pushing up rather then down if put in the incorrect head. Doublecheck part numbers.

I know it seems very unlikely but...cams are so easy to get confused. You are having the exact same issues as someone would have with the wrong cam; misfires at idle low load.

I did my GT build with 2.8L heads but stock lower block. Finally got everything back together after months and months, only to find that one of my piston rings had gone bad after everything was put together. Had to to then build the whole motor; another 6-7 months later. It is rare to have a build with no hangups. Just keep the positivity going. I hadn't driven mine in 12+ months after thousands and thousands of dollars.

-Max

PS. Have you done a leakdown test yet?!?! Any actual leak/issue in the block should show up with a leakdown (Not compression test, leakdown test).

Cams have been verified, everything is solid there (thank God)
Leakdown test been done twice, all within specs.
CCT is the correct part, but they think it could've failed, even though it was brand new.

I'm not there. I'm in Los Angeles, car is in NH. It's frustrating. Not because of anyone, just that, yeah, this is the way it goes. But I think we're close. I'll know more tomorrow, I hope.
Would a bad Bank 1 tensioner, even though it's working correctly, be causing Bank 2 misfires? I dunno, I'm spitballing, but I have to at least entertain that there could be little demon-spawns in the engine somewhere

Any other thoughts?

[nefkntym]

I hope things get worked out. Subscribed.

[MikeyB3]

Update:

Just talked to The Marks. Apparently it IS possible to get a bad, brand new, cam chain tensioner. This is something that I've been sweating for about 36 hrs now. They replaced the tensioner with another brand new one and the car runs flawlessly. Everyone, thanks for all the suggestions, because we all definitely went through nearly every possible scenario that could've caused this. Oi. Huge weights been lifted.

Moving forward: Car gets some miles on it and then goes to EPL for tune-age. I SHOULD have a movie of it driving tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll have it here as soon as I get it.

[Max@034]

Anything is possible! I think you lucked out pretty good!

[nefkntym]

Update:

Just talked to The Marks. Apparently it IS possible to get a bad, brand new, cam chain tensioner. This is something that I've been sweating for about 36 hrs now. They replaced the tensioner with another brand new one and the car runs flawlessly. Everyone, thanks for all the suggestions, because we all definitely went through nearly every possible scenario that could've caused this. Oi. Huge weights been lifted.

Moving forward: Car gets some miles on it and then goes to EPL for tune-age. I SHOULD have a movie of it driving tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll have it here as soon as I get it.

The same thing happened to Mike (Gearhead) during his 770 build. He replaced it due to issues, then had more problems due to a bad solenoid on a brand new tensioner. He swapped the new solenoid for the old and problems went away. I'm glad that it was nothing major. When you drive it back, are you going through Colorado?

[udcc11]

When it gets done are you going to drive it to L.A. or have it shipped?

[MikeyB3]

When it gets done are you going to drive it to L.A. or have it shipped?

I will be definitely driving it back. I want to have the chance to relearn to drive the car. Also, it'll get some cruising miles on it, giving me an idea of mileage (not that I really care)

I'll be taking what I'll call the "mid-route", through southwest Ohio, Mobilhoma, Texas, and west. With the weather being the way it is, and on summer-only tires, I'm not risking getting caught up in Colorado in the snow. I'll be making updates here, and twatting along the way (@SpoolinB). Should be a great trip. My mom is going to get a chance at the helm, in her first >350hp car experience. She's scared.

[MikeyB3]

Anything is possible! I think you lucked out pretty good!

Agreed. The next step was a near-disassemble of the engine to find some potential oil leak that might've cause it. Ugh... I'd have probably lost my sh!t something fierce.

[shorterthanrich]

Update:

Just talked to The Marks. Apparently it IS possible to get a bad, brand new, cam chain tensioner. This is something that I've been sweating for about 36 hrs now. They replaced the tensioner with another brand new one and the car runs flawlessly. Everyone, thanks for all the suggestions, because we all definitely went through nearly every possible scenario that could've caused this. Oi. Huge weights been lifted.

Moving forward: Car gets some miles on it and then goes to EPL for tune-age. I SHOULD have a movie of it driving tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll have it here as soon as I get it.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! This on the same day that my new turbo kit arrived :-D

So glad to hear this Mike. I might have to get in touch with the shop and go up to see the car running. I'm not too far from it - it'd be worth it!

Now its a race to the finish. I'm pulling my motor next week to put the new setup in! I wonder who'll be driving their car first... (I hope its you, actually)

[MikeyB3]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS! This on the same day that my new turbo kit arrived :-D
So glad to hear this Mike. I might have to get in touch with the shop and go up to see the car running. I'm not too far from it - it'd be worth it!
Now its a race to the finish. I'm pulling my motor next week to put the new setup in! I wonder who'll be driving their car first... (I hope its you, actually)

You should. I wanna see some pics and movies from you, if you do. Please. Pretty please. ... A race to the finish, it is. I do hope I'm first, but barring anything else that comes up and makes me wanna superman-punch a child, it might be a little longer. I feel like I'm a few weeks out. [I've been telling myself this for months. Now I actually believe my own BS] I need to have the car back. This game ships in October, and we're already busy. O.o

[wezzy785]

wow!! it's all coming together !!!! thank god you found out what the miss was man :)

[S4 00 2.7]

Getting closer and closer.

[MikeyB3]

Appreciate the kind words, guys. I really do.
I'm happy that that part [no pun intended] is over, but now it's going to EPL for the meth kit, fuel pumps, and dyno tune. Home stretch, but dammit, still feels like a long tunnel. Again, hoping to have some pics and a video tomorrow. So close... So close...

[DarkSideGTI]

Can't wait to see some numbers.

[TLO03]

You gonna run a balls out dd tune or a toned down version? I really looking forward to your results, cuz when my s4 grows up it wants to be just like yours..

[MikeyB3]

You gonna run a balls out dd tune or a toned down version? I really looking forward to your results, cuz when my s4 grows up it wants to be just like yours..

Reliability is my number one concern. I'm leaving the numbers up to Tony. Though, I have an idea where I hope it'll land. ... To answer your question, it'll probably be a balls-out DD tune

[MikeyB3]

I'm just going to leave this here:


http://www.motorsported.com/770R-S4/FirstGearPull.mp4
According to them, it was a light first gear pull. I've watched this at least 100 times already.

[wezzy785]

it sounds good !!

[S4 00 2.7]

Nice!

[shorterthanrich]

Mike, this is AWESOME!

What a tease, haha. It sounds so good...

[crumbta]

nice!