Want to make some powahhh

[rockersteady]

His throttle body is opening once engine fires, prior to it appears that he has full vac cranking. Disconnect ECU and crank again, watch your vacuum.

The ECU is having a real hard time adjusting AFR.
1. Are you sure your TIP hasnt slipped off the MAF?
2 You did some spirited driving now your car wont run, what DV are you running? youve got massive amount of un-metered air getting to your intake manifold.

[M-Hood]

His throttle body is opening once engine fires, prior to it appears that he has full vac cranking. Disconnect ECU and crank again, watch your vacuum.

The ECU is having a real hard time adjusting AFR.
1. Are you sure your TIP hasnt slipped off the MAF?
2 You did some spirited driving now your car wont run, what DV are you running? youve got massive amount of un-metered air getting to your intake manifold.

Just means the engine is able to suck the air in but cant actually hold the air in the cylinder during the compression stroke.

[jaychen]

I watched the video. Its hard to believe it will even stay running with no vacuum. Do you have to keep your foot on the gas peddle? Pressure test the system. I would bet you have a leak somewhere, PCV, intake manifold, vacuum lines. If you still have the oem cloth cover vacuum lines, get some silicon hose. The oem lines will crack inside the cloth and you won't be able to see it.

Read these:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...st-Leak-Tester
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ng-Boost-Leaks

What you're looking for is not really a boost leak, but a plain leak somewhere after the throttle body. So if you wanted to, you could connect up pressurized air to the throttle body and pressurize just the manifold,head,motor. IIRC, put the engine at #1 TDC when testing. If the boost/vacuum gauge is correctly connected to the intake manifold (most ppl tee into the vacuum line going from the IM to the FPR), you can use this as the gauge while pressurizing the system to determine what pressure it is at (<20psi) and if you are leaking somewhere. Either have someone else watch it or move the gauge under the hood while testing. GL

So you didn't read post #77?

I have done a pressure test..no vac leaks anywhere. I replaced my PCV hoses with a simple block breather adapter just to be sure the old PCV system wasn't the problem.

I will do yet another one today though.

[jaychen]

His throttle body is opening once engine fires, prior to it appears that he has full vac cranking. Disconnect ECU and crank again, watch your vacuum.

The ECU is having a real hard time adjusting AFR.
1. Are you sure your TIP hasnt slipped off the MAF? Yes I am sure.
2 You did some spirited driving now your car wont run, what DV are you running? Hyperboost DV

youve got massive amount of un-metered air getting to your intake manifold.

[jaychen]

Just means the engine is able to suck the air in but cant actually hold the air in the cylinder during the compression stroke.

I honestly think this is the only logical solution as to why my car idles like this now.

There are NO leaks, NO split hoses, NO hoses slipping off maf's, NO stock dv's.

[Crispy222]

So you didn't read post #77?

Yes, I did. Its hard keeping track of everyone's problems. Sorry. I think its time to get out the tools and rip it down. Did you do a leak down test? Maybe something todo with the intake valves? Something is messed up.

[jaychen]

I haven't done a leak down test yet because I don't have one. I was just wanting to get it running, albeit terribly, before I pulled the motor out so I knew it 'would' run when it went back in. Apart from the leak down test I really don't think there is anything else I can do to test the motor while its still in the car.

[aaronamerica]

you need to vag the car and see what new codes your getting.....I wouldnt get so hyped to pull the motor unless for sure its bad...example-**-my car had bad mifires and sounded like a Subaru and had no power and no boost one time back when I was a newbie lol and I changed all plugs, coils, swapped ecu's, and the head lol....come to find out my Ignition control module was bad so swapped it out and dang all was good

so just take your time and troubleshoot, it may be worth it to pay a shop to do a leak down test and etc to be sure unless your just really ready for a built motor and big turbo this would be a good excuse for the wife to allow you to spend the money hahahaha lol

[jaychen]

Haha wife, I'm 22 years old. No wife here buddy, but I am a student so its pretty much the same, no money.

I will swap the ICM out for a new one and check codes but I don't get my hopes up much when it comes to cars.

I plan on going BT soon anyway so rebuilding is just insurance.

[aaronamerica]

I doubt its your ICM unless your getting codes for missfire but worth a try if you have one laying around but b4 swapping sensors i would vag first

[rockersteady]

And my money is on AFR
Do another TBA as soon as you get vagcom

The APR TIP i sold you is notorious for slipping off. It will cause the Idle in your Video if it was off.
Another thing that will do that idle is TB way out. Do that first.
Theres no way you bent valves, and your compression isnt that bad to cause lack of vacuum on over run. The DV valve connects between the manifold and the pressure pipe, if that failed in some way, it could allow lots of un-metered air to your manifold, bypassing the TB. Which would make your idle as it is. Hence my question about your DV.

I just tried my car on cranking and it doesnt pull vacuum with DBW TB control connection disconnected so thats nulled my suggestion of pulling vacuum at cranking speed.

[bmarshall]

Is the chip soldered in or socket? I have had bad idle, cutting out, bad running engine before from a poor contact of the aftermarket chip in its socket!

[rockersteady]

You said the car started to run bad the night you were out driving spiritedly
If the DV line came off (wont show up under Boost leak/ vaccum leak test) you could get your car home running poorly.
When you try to start cold it wont run because fuel mixture too weak, then it fires and runs like a bitch cause the O2 not giving feed back cold.
Your combo gauge will show low vacuum because of the air leak.
What was the battery voltage when you did your compression test? Weak battery would give low dry and higher wet test results. All your figures are across the board.

[rockersteady]

Its a socketed chip, hes returning the Nuespeed chip because it didnt run right on the night his car went tits up, he tried the stock chip back in but it didnt run, then I sent him a picture of correct orientation and he put it in the right way, now it starts but runs like shit,I agree Ben, that can also do it.
He will have access to another ECU Saturday that he can test that theory out with.

[M-Hood]

You said the car started to run bad the night you were out driving spiritedly
If the DV line came off (wont show up under Boost leak/ vaccum leak test) you could get your car home running poorly.
When you try to start cold it wont run because fuel mixture too weak, then it fires and runs like a bitch cause the O2 not giving feed back cold.
Your combo gauge will show low vacuum because of the air leak.
What was the battery voltage when you did your compression test? Weak battery would give low dry and higher wet test results. All your figures are across the board.

None of what you just said makes any sense.

First off the DV line connects to the IM and a pressure test is testing everything that is connected to the IM for leaks.

O2 sensor is giving feed back all the time, it isn't like the 02 sensor needs time to heat up from the exhaust.

It would have to be a HUGE leak to make the gauge sit at zero during idle.

A low battery will cause a low reading, but it isn't going to cause the numbers to go up when doing a wet test on a good motor. When the numbers go up on a wet test means that the rings are not sealing during the compression stroke.

[rockersteady]

I just tested both my AEBs with DV line disconected at IM. they both ran fine, There goes that theory ruled out by elimination
Yes with low cranking speed, losses occur at a rate faster than can be overcome by cranking. when the cylinder is wet with low cranking speed the numbers will go up vs Dry. Thats what he has, and untill he rules out that his battery is not weak, I would call it a more plausible cause for low number reading across the board, suddenly.
My mistake I guess, I thought the narrowband 02 sensor doesnt put out voltage untill warm. Looking at some logs it takes about 30 seconds before my 02 sensor state switches from off to on and then a minute more to follow the AFR
Yes a huge leak, or the vac gauge isnt reading right.

[jaychen]

Vac gauge is working correctly, its brand new, it was working perfectly that night and still is now. I tested it by putting a line to the sender and it read 20psi like my compressor was putting out. It had been ruled out a long time ago.

I didn't say this problem occurred the night I was driving, the car definitely was heat soaking or something because I was pulled on easily by a b5 with a stg1 APR chip and 3'' turbo back. The real 'problems' occurred the next day when I went to start the car and it was only pulling -10 vac and would only boost to 5psi.

[M-Hood]

I just tested both my AEBs with DV line disconected at IM. they both ran fine, There goes that theory ruled out by elimination
Yes with low cranking speed, losses occur at a rate faster than can be overcome by cranking. when the cylinder is wet with low cranking speed the numbers will go up vs Dry. Thats what he has, and untill he rules out that his battery is not weak, I would call it a more plausible cause for low number reading across the board, suddenly.
My mistake I guess, I thought the narrowband 02 sensor doesnt put out voltage untill warm. Looking at some logs it takes about 30 seconds before my 02 sensor state switches from off to on and then a minute more to follow the AFR
Yes a huge leak, or the vac gauge isnt reading right.

One problem with your dry vs wet. If the battery was low during dry test then it would have been even lower by the time he did the wet test. Just look at his dry readings, the 1st cylinder is actually lower then the 4th. So if the battery was in fact low the 1st cylinder would have been the highest and the reading of each cylinder after it would have decreased. Same thing would have happen during the wet test.

[bmarshall]

The ecu will not go into closed loop till the O2 is at operating temperature. That's why all new 4 and 5 wire sensors have a heater inside to speed the process up from the old days of single wire sensors. The internal resistance is very high until it reaches operating temp.

[jaychen]

So todays findings are as follows:

Do a VAG-COM , it returns no codes.

Car starts and runs very rough with vacuum no higher than between -5 and 0 like the video I posted.

My buddy gets here, notices a sneaky little vac tube that was from the PCV system that was unplugged, plugs it with his thumb, idle return to a solid, smooth state although vacuum never reached above -10 on my boost gauge.

We shut the car off to do a VAG-COM scan, camshaft position sensor code is back.

Try to restart the car, car won't start. Pull the plugs, they are fouled and reek of fuel. Give them a clean and get a good contact back and try to start the car again but it wont go.

I swap my 4BAR FPR (stock) back in place of my 5BAR one. It has no effect.

We shoot up to the nearest car parts shop and grab some BKR6E plugs, hoping that the hotter plug will get the car started.

No dice again. Take out cylinder 1's plug and there is smoke coming out of the spark plug hole and it smells so strongly of fuel. The plug itself wasn't too bad but definitely smelt like fuel.

At this point we are thinking that the injectors are the ONLY things left to check. At 5BAR the stock injectors may have been locked open causing too much fuel with coincides with our theory that when the vac line was unplugged it would run due to letting more air in to compensate for the extremely rich mixture and then when blogged there was too little air, too much fuel although for that theory to be proven.. the car 'should' have started with the vac line unplugged again..which it did NOT.

So, back to square 1.

[M-Hood]

The ecu will not go into closed loop till the O2 is at operating temperature. That's why all new 4 and 5 wire sensors have a heater inside to speed the process up from the old days of single wire sensors. The internal resistance is very high until it reaches operating temp.

Takes about 15 seconds for LM-1 wide band 02 sensor to completely heat up, I actually burned my fingers on it the last time I put a new one in and did the calibration with it sitting in the engine bay. Our EGT's rise pretty quickly once the engine is started up, temps can reach 1000+ degs in a matter of seconds.

[walky_talky20]

Firstly, take care of that "sneaky vac tube". Vac leaks are not your friend right now.

Have you tried cranking in "clear flood mode"? I think you probably have everything flooded to crap. Pull the plugs, clean with brake cleaner and dry them with compressed air. Leave the plugs out, hold accel pedal to WOT and crank for 5 seconds, wait, then again for 5 seconds. Put clean, dry or fresh new plugs in. Hold accel pedal to WOT and crank for 5 seconds. May try to fire, just keep holding. Wait, then again for 5 more seconds. Wait, then release accel pedal and try to start as normal and see where you get. This is just something I would try on a car that's been messed with a lot recently.

[rockersteady]

What ever the Vac tube (that was always connected, I have no VAC leaks !!) to what ever PCV system you have, by plugging it with your buddies finger has now flooded your car with oil and crap) like Walky says, and wont run anymore.
You fix that vac leak, clean all the crap from your throttle body, DO A TBA, de-flood like walky said.
And go for a nice drive. :)

[bmarshall]

Have you checked the cts, can cause rich start up. You can pull the fuel rail off with injectors on still and turn each one on at a time through vag-com to see if your theory is correct. You can check the cam sensor with a multimeter buy taking it off and watch the trigger wire go from 5volt to 0volt as you pass a flathead screwdriver past it.

[jaychen]

Firstly, take care of that "sneaky vac tube". Vac leaks are not your friend right now.

Have you tried cranking in "clear flood mode"? I think you probably have everything flooded to crap. Pull the plugs, clean with brake cleaner and dry them with compressed air. Leave the plugs out, hold accel pedal to WOT and crank for 5 seconds, wait, then again for 5 seconds. Put clean, dry or fresh new plugs in. Hold accel pedal to WOT and crank for 5 seconds. May try to fire, just keep holding. Wait, then again for 5 more seconds. Wait, then release accel pedal and try to start as normal and see where you get. This is just something I would try on a car that's been messed with a lot recently.

Did this, it had no effect what so ever..

[jaychen]

What ever the Vac tube (that was always connected, I have no VAC leaks !!) to what ever PCV system you have, by plugging it with your buddies finger has now flooded your car with oil and crap) like Walky says, and wont run anymore.
You fix that vac leak, clean all the crap from your throttle body, DO A TBA, de-flood like walky said.
And go for a nice drive. :)

I have done this all 3 times now bar the throttle body alignment since I do not have a VAG-COM.

Is it possible that this is the reason the car won't start?

"May try to fire, just keep holding." It does seem like it will fire, but I keep holding, then when I proceed to start the car with my foot off the accelerator pedal it just does nothing. I take out the plugs again and they smell like fuel all over. Re-clean them, dry them, put them back in, rinse and repeat and still it wont fire.

[jaychen]

What ever the Vac tube (that was always connected, I have no VAC leaks !!) to what ever PCV system you have, by plugging it with your buddies finger has now flooded your car with oil and crap) like Walky says, and wont run anymore.
You fix that vac leak, clean all the crap from your throttle body, DO A TBA, de-flood like walky said.
And go for a nice drive. :)

I understand that was a big mistake on my part. But, the car ran even when it did have a vac leak. started numerous times, and ran , albeit terribly. The other thing was when he plugged the vac line, the vac reading still only returned to -10, if that was the 'massive' vac leak you have been referring to it would have shot back to -20 like it was previously.. which it did not.

[jaychen]

:)

This car had me near ready to rip out my hair for the past few weeks.

It seems now everything is back and operating normally except for excessive smoke from my exhaust (rings?), low vacuum reading (rings?) and compression test results (rings?).

I did the de-flood as walky said to, it didn't work. So it got me think about what bmarshall said. I removed the fuel rail with injectors still attached to check firing sequence. Everything looked normal, so i though what the hell, i'll crank it with these out and pull the fuse for the fuel pump so it just burns off any excess fuel in the chamber. It fires first go and runs until the fuel obviously burnt out. I stick the fuel rail back in, put the fuse back in, let the pump prime and tb do its thing, it fires first go. Straight off the bat the idle is smooth and solid.

I let it warm up for a bit, then attempt to drive. I blew my throttle body hose off straight away trying to reverse so I jumped out put it back on then tried to start again but it wouldn't go.

I then removed the fuel rail again, pulled #28 fuse and started it to let the fuel burn off which this time only last for about 2 seconds compared to the 10-15 before. I re-installed the fuel rail, started it up and let it warm up a bit longer. Jumped in drove down and went for a quick drive and everything was ok it terms of idle and fuel injection although my vac reading is still -10 and there was a lot of smoke pumping out of the exhaust.

Decided to do one last compression test since the motor was hot , results were:

Cylinder 1: 92
Cylinder 2: 110
Cylinder 3: 140
Cylinder 4: 127

Maybe the motor wasn't at operating temp the first time, maybe I didn't crank for long enough.. Not really sure but these results sound more realistic.

Here are some videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybH5KLl4B4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2N-hQVi8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nC3nTQCkFc

[Turbo Nerd]

Do you have a cylinder leak down tester?

Edit: I would offer to send you mine but since your in Australia I don't think that would be too smart lol.

[jaychen]

No I don't but am going to buy one tonight. Final step before pulling the motor.

I was seriously going to lose my shit if I didn't figure this all out soon

[Turbo Nerd]

See what the results of the leakdown test is and go from there. Hopefully you won't have to pull the motor, doesn't take that long to remove the head if you have valvetrain problems.

[jaychen]

I want to go drop in rods, can't imagine that would be easy with the motor in the car ?

[Turbo Nerd]

Oh, lol never mind... I didn't know you wanted to throw rods in there. Carry on.

[jaychen]

Haha yeh well I want to make 300-350whp so I think now is the best time to go rods.

We will see, im only a student and that means my bankroll is not infinite like some of you other guys. I finish my semester in 6 weeks and I will be back into full time work so I will just chip away at it until then and see where I have gotten to.

[Turbo Nerd]

Shit, I'm 23 and I buy parts paycheck to paycheck. Plus you save a bunch getting discounts on parts and doing the work yourself. I just can't wait till the motor is done so I can stop spending money and save for a couple months to buy a built AEB head, tubular mani, and BAT.

[jaychen]

Yeh definitely , trade price is always good. As is having certain people to get gear through , shipping is the killer for AUS.. not the prices themselves.

Is it not cheaper to build your head now or is it not AEB?

[Turbo Nerd]

No it's a small port head with supertech valve springs and retainers, stock valves stock cams. I'll probably just end up buying the already built head from IE with thier cams.

[bmarshall]

You might want to change the oil too after all that fuel in the cylinders.

[jaychen]

Leak down test results are in, looks like its rings..

Cylinder 1 - 85psi/100psi : Coming through PCV block breather with a piece of hose
Cylinder 2 - 95psi/100psi : No noticeable leaks from intake/exhaust/PCV.
Cylinder 3 - 95psi/100psi : No noticeable leaks from intake/exhaust/PCV.
Cylinder 4 - 78psi/100psi : Coming through PCV block breather with a piece of hose

[M-Hood]

With the Compression test readings you got I would expected leaking from all 4 cylinders.