Mikse´s TiAL S605 Build ..€urostyle..

[Mikse]

Delays after delays, after change of plans and a few setbacks it´s time to start my TiAL 605 build.

If I sould describe shortly this I would say two words: Snowball effect. The plan was to do a basic Turbo swap with necessary mods but ended up upgrading a few extra parts .
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Here´s the part list:
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Engine size: 2.7L
Rods: Rosten
Pistons: Stock
Heads: 2.4 (Slightly ported)
Cams: 2.4/ RS4
Valvetrain: Stock
Intake Valves: Stock
Exhaust Valves: Rosten stainless
Head Gaskets: MTM Compression Dropping ~8.8
Intake Manifold: Ported RS4
Intake: X-0.5 fiberglass
Y-Pipe: Stock
Throttle Body: RS4
Pressure pipes: 63,5mm custom
Diverter Valves: Forge
Turbo kit: TiAL S605 /w Divorced exhaust flanges
MAF: EPL GT MAF
Fuel Rails: RS4
Injectors: Bosch ev14 72 lb
Fuel Pump: Bosch 044 In-Tank
Tune: Remotely By EPL
Water/Meth Injection: Aquamist HFS-3
Clutch: Southbends Stage 5 DXD-B
Flywheel: TTV Racing steel ~8kg
Intercooler(s): ERs w/ Modified stock shrouds
Mounts: 034 track density Motor and 034 street Tranny
Exhaust Manifolds: KKD Motorsport carbon steel tubular
Downpipes: 3" custom for DSM Flange
Exhaust: Custom 3,5" with two silencer. 3,5" Apple racing in the middle and Vibrant 3,5" in the back
Coilovers: H&R
Wheels: 17x8 O.Z Ultraleggera
Miscellaneous: VEMS Wideband with EGT, 25 row oil cooler.

Probably forgot something but I´ll update
..And this is how the journey started..

All packages loaded ready to go

There´s actually quite a few boxes missing from the pictures.

[khj677turbo]

Its like in the first fast and the furious when they build the supra, Unreal!

[Timtheguru]

2.4 heads?

[sherbet]

2.4 heads?

I think they are from a 2.4 V6 that was Europe Only and I've seen pics of them. The intake and exhaust ports, IIRC are larger than those on the 2.7 heads. I'm not sure if they flow better than 2.8 heads though, (doubtful) but maybe the OP got a deal on them..?

[Timtheguru]

I think they are from a 2.4 V6 that was Europe Only and I've seen pics of them. The intake and exhaust ports, IIRC are larger than those on the 2.7 heads. I'm not sure if they flow better than 2.8 heads though, (doubtful) but maybe the OP got a deal on them..?

Oh cool I didn't know there was another option. Learned something new today! :D

[sherbet]

Oh cool I didn't know there was another option. Learned something new today! :D

Yeah, goddamn europeans get all the good stuff :( (although the 2.4 probably wasnt anything special lol)

[Timtheguru]

Yeah, goddamn europeans get all the good stuff :( (although the 2.4 probably wasnt anything special lol)

Haha, you don't seem to like the 2.4 heads with your parentheses comments! :D

[sherbet]

Haha, you don't seem to like the 2.4 heads with your parentheses comments! :D

hahaha to be honest I really dont know that much about them, just seen a few pics being compared to 2.7 heads and 2.8 heads and I think they flow better than 2.7's (So I dont really have anything against them) haha

[Mikse]

Don´t think anyone know the flow difference between 2.4 vs 2.8 but 2.4 are very common here so thats why it was my choise. 2.8 has a littler more aggressive cam profile than 2.4/RS4.
More about the heads here
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ght=comparison.

2.4 "might" have a little bigger intake ports but it depends on what port you are measuring. My head had ~2mm difference between the ports(?!). I´ll post pics later.

[wan2play]

sexsi build

[Mikse]

Here´s pics size differences between the ports of the 2.4 intake.
Largest 2.4

Smallest 2.4



And for a comparison 2.8 head intake port


We ended up porting all intake ports and intake manifold ports so they match perfectly.
Ported RS4 intake

[Mikse]

Couple of pics for you guys to enjoy

[judeisnotobscur]

Wow! looks like a great build, i'm very jealous.

[BlakMarketKlash]

This build looks like it's going to be rad ! Are you going to be wiring the VEMS in place of your primary 02's and using as a WB aswell?

[Mikse]

Primary O2 will be left to their places and VEMS WB will have its own place.

[Mikse]

2.4 head exhaust side ported


KKD exhaust manifold


TiAL´s turbine housing inlet was much larger than K04 so outlet port is now port matched also. This looks like this now.


Next the turbos need a little adjustment and they are going in.

[Hyphy]

subscribed

[Mikse]

Turbos installed



And 034 engine mounts.

[Turbo1A4]

nice now its time to install and get her running!

[Mikse]

nice now its time to install and get her running!

A lot of work still need to be done before she´s in running condition but hopefully in a next couple of weeks.
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And the pressure plate
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[S4 00 2.7]

Nice! :popcorn:

[Mikse]

Downpipes are ready and just need some heat wrap. 3" with divorced exhaust flanges and v-banded cats.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Wait, these are 605's or 770's?

I didn't even know 605s were available with DSM style flanges

[Mikse]

Wait, these are 605's or 770's?

I didn't even know 605s were available with DSM style flanges

Well now you do it is an option and thought I'd use it.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

that's pretty damn awesome IMO... Tial FTW!

[Max@034]

Excited to see the results! Well rounded build!

My only question; do you feel a single 044 pump in the tank will be sufficient for long pulls?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Excited to see the results! Well rounded build!

My only question; do you feel a single 044 pump in the tank will be sufficient for long pulls?

What does the length of the pull have to do with it?

Either it has enough flow or it doesn't. And if you're on sure, or are going to be riding the edge then one pump isn't enough. I think he'll be fine with one 044 pump on 605's for pump has numbers personally.

[Max@034]

What does the length of the pull have to do with it?

Either it has enough flow or it doesn't. And if you're on sure, or are going to be riding the edge then one pump isn't enough. I think he'll be fine with one 044 pump on 605's for pump has numbers personally.

Length of pull has everything to do with it; the fuel demands of a 6th gear pull is drastically more then a 2nd gear or 3rd gear pull. The devastation of running lean in a 6th gear pull is also much worse then in a lower gear. Typically, we assume that folks in Europe are going to be doing much longer and faster pulls due to the roads and laws compared to here in the USA.

Considering the caliber of the build, such as built heads and RS4 intake componentry and the amount of supporting mods, he's going to be putting down well over 500whp which is nearing the limit of a pump placed 8 feet away from the motor, and running through small stock lines. Pressure isn't the issue here; running 72lb injectors at 8000rpm at 150mph is the issue.

I'm not trying to sell anything here; we and others offer dual surge or single surge options. A single Bosch 044 is indeed enough to flow 605's maxed out; just not from the rear of the car through the stock lines. Just my/our experiences. If the car only sees short bursts of 1 or 2 or 3 gears, no big deal. But a full sustained 6th gear pull for minutes on end... No way. Stick the Bosch 044 right in the engine bay, use -6AN fuel supply lines, and it will flow plenty.

[Mikse]

Excited to see the results! Well rounded build!

My only question; do you feel a single 044 pump in the tank will be sufficient for long pulls?

I´m kind of hoping it won´t be sufficient but it depends to what power level you can run single 044 safely? I´ve been told that level is around 540-550whp or ~650chp as people here in europe likes to put it.? Correct if I´m wrong.


On our local airport we have a standing mile -day twice a year and I´m hoping to get the car tuned (at least partly) before next event in the fall so that is the longest pull the 044 will need to handle.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Length of pull has everything to do with it; the fuel demands of a 6th gear pull is drastically more then a 2nd gear or 3rd gear pull.

Care to quantify that?

I don't see how xxx load in 4th is any less then xxx load in 6th... the supply is the exact same... the only thing that I can see changes is the legth of time you spend in xxx load... you're in there much longer... but again, either the pump is able to supply or it isn't.

[highspeeds4]

Care to quantify that?

I don't see how xxx load in 4th is any less then xxx load in 6th... the supply is the exact same... the only thing that I can see changes is the legth of time you spend in xxx load... you're in there much longer... but again, either the pump is able to supply or it isn't.

I would like to know this too.

My guess would be like comparing this to an air compressor that has the capability to support 1000 lb/ft of torque but not for long because the compressor can't keep the pressure up.

Or maybe even trying to blow a golf ball through a water hose.

So unless the fuel lines are the right size, only short bursts are recommended?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I would like to know this too.

My guess would be like comparing this to an air compressor that has the capability to support 1000 lb/ft of torque but not for long because the compressor can't keep the pressure up.

Or maybe even trying to blow a golf ball through a water hose.

So unless the fuel lines are the right size, only short bursts are recommended?

The air compressor is a completely different situation. It pre-compresses the air, so obviously you only have so much in reserve...

A fuel pump will either flow @ a rated pressure or it won't. There is no reduction of flow just because you're asking for a certain volume for a longer period of time.

[Max@034]

Care to quantify that?

I don't see how xxx load in 4th is any less then xxx load in 6th... the supply is the exact same... the only thing that I can see changes is the legth of time you spend in xxx load... you're in there much longer... but again, either the pump is able to supply or it isn't.

You are correct, I am basing this on length of time with the load, and not the actual physical load the motor is seeing; I should have clarified. I just don't like the wording of your statement "either the pump is able to supply or it isn't", because I feel it gives the impression that if you go do a few highway pulls and your car doesn't blow up, that it will always be that way... Even though the air compressor analogy doesn't work (although it does for a surge tank sorta) because fuel pumps don't work that way, in reality I've seen pressure maintained under huge 6th gear pulls, but fuel flow diminish. I know this goes against the physics on paper...

PS. Sorry Mikse; don't mean to crowd your thread...

[Mikse]

PS. Sorry Mikse; don't mean to crowd your thread...

Not at all. Its nice to have some conversation here. To get back to the adequacy of the 044. What is the max power level you can run safely with a single 044?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

You are correct, I am basing this on length of time with the load, and not the actual physical load the motor is seeing; I should have clarified. I just don't like the wording of your statement "either the pump is able to supply or it isn't", because I feel it gives the impression that if you go do a few highway pulls and your car doesn't blow up, that it will always be that way... Even though the air compressor analogy doesn't work (although it does for a surge tank sorta) because fuel pumps don't work that way, in reality I've seen pressure maintained under huge 6th gear pulls, but fuel flow diminish. I know this goes against the physics on paper...

PS. Sorry Mikse; don't mean to crowd your thread...

Then I would say what you saw was an issue with supply to the pump... I don't see how that is possible... especially with no pressure drop.

How was the fuel flow you saw diminished measured?

It could have possibly been a situation where the feed hose was actually just too small for the application maybe.

[Mikse]

Sorry for lack of updates. Here´s a few pics of inlet pipes. Decided to cut them and I´m glad we did. Passenger side cam chain tensioner bolt was broken and was leaking a lot of oil. It was much easier to take the valve cover off and work without the inlet pipe.




And a custom made pressure pipes

[Max@034]

Glad to see progress is continuing!

What diameter did you go for on the bi-pipes?

[BlakMarketKlash]

Nice. How did the meth install come along?

[Mikse]

Glad to see progress is continuing!

What diameter did you go for on the bi-pipes?

Pipes are 63,5mm. The RS4 tbb inlet was a little different size but can´t remember at this point what it was but the tbb end of the pressure pipe had to be made from a different size.

Nice. How did the meth install come along?

I think we solved the HFS-3 wiring issue after we got the right wiring diagram from ELSA (bentley manual had a different diagram). Heven´t replied to you yet because I haven´t got a chance to test it. I´m Having other issues with flash loader and immobilizer..

[Mikse]

Picture where you can see the size difference compared to stock pipe. Original S-bend went bearly onto the new pipe but it propably wouldn´t last very long with the extra stretch.



I had 63-51mm silicone reducer bends to mate with ERs