FlyboyS4 shifting gears: TiAL 605 -> FrankenTurbo F4H

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Also MAF values are rarely comparable because they can be scaled completely different from one tune to another. Unless of choose you know for a fact that everything is identical between the two hardware and software wise

Sent from my phone via the interwebs

[FlyboyS4]

Also MAF values are rarely comparable because they can be scaled completely different from one tune to another. Unless of choose you know for a fact that everything is identical between the two hardware and software wise

Sent from my phone via the interwebs

I am assuming that the MAF values are comparable since EPL was/is adjusting the tuning, and both setups are using the exact same Hitachi sensor, and both use(d) the EPL 85mm MAF housing. I also run a calculated MAF value based on IAT, MAP, and RPM, and that shows the same airflow difference that the MAF sensor is recording.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

ahh makes sense then...

how's the car running now? still doing revisions?

[FlyboyS4]

Continuing the tuning with EPL on these FT's. I made a couple of pulls to see how the Frankenturbo's would do in colder weather. Boost was up a bit with the denser air and AFR slightly leaner as a result. Second pull may have had the clutch slip around 3500 rpm.

[TweetsS4Estate]

That's an awesome pull! FTs really get, as will smith would say, jiggy with it! .60gs is no joke! I wish you would hold the boost in your tune though... What clutch are you running?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Very impressive! Good work EPL!

[Cadiburns]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you're pretty happy with your decision to go with FTs. They certainly look to be doing well! Great log there. How were the CFs on that run? Looks great.

[99ebpsi24]

Damn! The car looks like it moves really well, that's an impressive FATS run. I'm assuming this is still running with no meth just boost correct.

[FlyboyS4]

What clutch are you running?

A Southbend that I had installed three years ago when I had an APR Stg3 kit and the RS4 clutch I had failed. I don't know which clutch specifically because I had a shop install the clutch and I just needed something good enough for that power level. I should know soon enough if it is a clutch problem. The thing is that it held up with the 605's on race gas, which was around 470 ft-lbs.

How were the CFs on that run? Looks great.

Single digits.

I'm assuming this is still running with no meth just boost correct.

Correct, I won't be using W/M injection with this tune. The cold air temps are helping quite a bit. Should be interesting once it gets down to freezing.

[michael66899]

Very impressive, that thing is really moving especially considering its not even on meth. Would you care to put a log from when you had 605s in the compare graphs, I'm contemplating picking up a set of 605s for my daily and am trying to decide if I want to deal with the slower response.

[Hyphy]

What made you stick with the 72's versus the 60lb ev14's?
Why does the boost taper more in the higher rpm's?

[FlyboyS4]

What made you stick with the 72's versus the 60lb ev14's?
Why does the boost taper more in the higher rpm's?

When I tried to recoup some of my losses from dealing with VAST I sold the fueling kit, so the injectors went with it. I was intending to have EPL also make an E85 tune so I wanted to have large enough fuel injectors to allow that to be done. I may not have gone large enough, but that remains to be seen.

I asked Doug about the boost at the upper end rpm's and it boiled down to me pushing the boundary in terms of the known capacity of the turbo's. I had a few pulls where the turbo's were making around 25 psi @ 7000 rpm. I wasn't enthusiastic about staying out on the edge, so I dialed it down to a boost level that was an aggressive upper limit. Even there it is higher than I need, most of my driving never touches 6000+ rpm, so holding 24+ psi isn't that important to me.

Very impressive, that thing is really moving especially considering its not even on meth. Would you care to put a log from when you had 605s in the compare graphs, I'm contemplating picking up a set of 605s for my daily and am trying to decide if I want to deal with the slower response.

FT's compared to 605

The thing that is really nice about the Frankenturbo's is to be driving around in a traffic friendly sedate manner and with just a slightly additional press on the pedal be into bat out of hell acceleration.

[judeisnotobscur]

man that thing is looking good.

[jibberjive]

The thing that is really nice about the Frankenturbo's is to be driving around in a traffic friendly sedate manner and with just a slightly additional press on the pedal be into bat out of hell acceleration.

So, you would say that part-throttle transient response of the FT's are noticeably faster than the 605's?

[FlyboyS4]

So, you would say that part-throttle transient response of the FT's are noticeably faster than the 605's?

Given the way that I am typically driving, which is rpm's somewhere between 2000-3000, getting on the throttle in that range with the FT's does result in a noticeably stronger response. At 3100-3200 rpm the FT's are at 20+ psi and the 605's at 8-10 psi.

[jibberjive]

At 3100-3200 rpm the FT's are at 20+ psi and the 605's at 8-10 psi.

When under full load from an earlier RPM. If you stomped on it from 3000RPM it would take a second for the boost to ramp up to those levels on the graph (and that's the transient response that I'm asking about), and the curve would look different than that graph. I'm stating the obvious that you already know, and your reply did answer my question though. Yeah, I suspected that the transient, part-throttle 'spool' would be where the daily driving differences are probably felt.

[Evilevo]

When under full load from an earlier RPM. If you stomped on it from 3000RPM it would take a second for the boost to ramp up to those levels on the graph (and that's the transient response that I'm asking about), and the curve would look different than that graph. I'm stating the obvious that you already know, and your reply did answer my question though. Yeah, I suspected that the transient, part-throttle 'spool' would be where the daily driving differences are probably felt.

I feel like the transient response at say 4k rpm or 5k rpm would be the same for both turbos. IE the 605s are just as fast as the FTs. I know on my setup if I am at 5k and floor it, it is only like 200rpm before I am at full boost.

[FlyboyS4]

I feel like the transient response at say 4k rpm or 5k rpm would be the same for both turbos. IE the 605s are just as fast as the FTs. I know on my setup if I am at 5k and floor it, it is only like 200rpm before I am at full boost.

It will probably be close enough as to not be very meaningful. I don't have any logs where I'm at 4000-5000 rpm and then flooring it.

[AudiA4_20T]

That last graph really says a lot

[julex]

I'd be FAR more interested in MAF flow graph or g/s graph for both turbos.

[FlyboyS4]

[70 eliminator]

cool!!

[FlyboyS4]

Been trying out some different boost levels. Still have not completed fine tuning the AFR.

Complete logs

[PearlS4]

FT's compared to 605

Nice case study, very well written. for taking the time to do it.

[foxhound720]

School me. explain this graph to me please. maf graph ?

[naudlee]

It will probably be close enough as to not be very meaningful. I don't have any logs where I'm at 4000-5000 rpm and then flooring it.

nice info... nearly exactly 1000rpms difference in full spool, top end the 605's shine but I like the FT's for budget friendly power

[FlyboyS4]

Some results comparing boost in cold (37F) and hot (95F) ambient temperatures with a fixed N75 duty cycle.

[FlyboyS4]

Sadly my build thread has to include these type of detours since my car's progress is a result of how VAST Performance conducts business.

VAST seems to be prepared to deflect all responsibility for the products and services they sell based on what the product is, what services they provide, and the specific vehicles that they are providing the products and services for.

Even more, unless you buy directly from them, not your local shop that is a distributor for VAST, you should not be surprised to find that they don't stand behind the things they sell. It seems their retail partners are on the hook when VAST chooses to be more interested in their customers money than customer service.

[jordon]

Wow..... Just, wow.....
All VAST distributors should be very concerned about this...

[A62TURBO]

Vast has Passed.

[naudlee]

I cant wait until the day VAST closes it's doors (due to lack of interest/no business hopefully)... I had a 25k nightmare via. them as well as many others. /Wouldfeelgreat

[AWDLAUNCH]

F- VAST!

[Vinchenzo51]

Wow..... Just, wow.....
All VAST distributors should be very concerned about this...

This is what I was thinking too. Basically VAST is pawning off ALL issues they cause onto their venders! Thats a kick in the face right there.

I cant wait until the day VAST closes it's doors (due to lack of interest/no business hopefully)... I had a 25k nightmare via. them as well as many others. /Wouldfeelgreat

Hopefully your still an active member of some of your old BMW and M5 forums in case they jump on there as a vender, you can point those fine BMW folks over to threads like this and yours.

[naudlee]

This is what I was thinking too. Basically VAST is pawning off ALL issues they cause onto their venders! Thats a kick in the face right there.



Hopefully your still an active member of some of your old BMW and M5 forums in case they jump on there as a vender, you can point those fine BMW folks over to threads like this and yours.

Seeing as they have my old e39 m5, that after all said and done I truly got screwed for in a $25,000 trade... I wouldn't doubt them trying to shift their business onto another platform. If I see any BS, I'll be the first to put them on blast, don't worry!
-They are seriously lucky Im a very reasonable & capable guy and turned a 25k nightmare into a serious project that worked out great in the end (with 20K of my own funds+++)... I should have went after them, and should have taken them for every penny I could!

lies lies lies andy is a douche lies lies lies is all I got from them...

[FlyboyS4]

Capturing the picture with humor, write up's not my idea, but damn funny. VAST Press Release

[jibberjive]

Actually not very funny.

[naudlee]

actually; spot on, dead on, absolutely positively.... TRUE
-I never took you for one to have the wool pulled over their eyes...lol

[Matt Danger]

I think he was just saying it wasn't funny. Not that he's a supporter.

[jibberjive]

Yeah, I was saying the cute little writeups aren't funny, not that VAST isn't in the wrong.

[ilyafil]

Capturing the picture with humor, write up's not my idea, but damn funny. VAST Press Release

LOL!