FlyboyS4 shifting gears: TiAL 605 -> FrankenTurbo F4H

[Evilevo]

Does EPL go with their big MAF for K04 setups now, or do they use the Hitachi MAF element in a bigger housing?

I know Tony was talking about that because of how much better and more precise that MAF is, but I don't think he is doing it yet.

[Jason:addict]

Does EPL go with their big MAF for K04 setups now, or do they use the Hitachi MAF element in a bigger housing?

K04's are incapable of maxing out the drop-in Hitachi sensor housing, so it's highly unlikely anything but the standard EPL housing will be used on any build that's 500whp or less.

[FlyboyS4]

72lb injectors installed, new base file loaded and running.

[jibberjive]

K04's are incapable of maxing out the drop-in Hitachi sensor housing, so it's highly unlikely anything but the standard EPL housing will be used on any build that's 500whp or less.

I know, I was thinking maybe for ease of having a single universal sensor that they use on everything, but it makes sense that they wouldn't throw in an extra couple hundred bucks for a sensor that's not necessarily needed.

[FlyboyS4]

Have the boost pretty well set, now turning to cleaning up the AFR.

[TweetsS4Estate]

Have the boost pretty well set, now turning to cleaning up the AFR.

Finally someone wants to see how much power these turbos can make! Can you post wg duty cycle

[FlyboyS4]

Finally someone wants to see how much power these turbos can make! Can you post wg duty cycle

It's a fixed WGDC at ~72%.

[jordon]

Have the boost pretty well set, now turning to cleaning up the AFR.

Sweet Jesus!!!

[FlyboyS4]

Smoothing the boost curve a little more. Going to bring that top end boost down. Doug says 24 psi or 400 g/s at red-line, but not both, I think I'm past that point now.

[FlyboyS4]

Smoothing the boost curve a little more. Going to bring that top end boost down. Doug says 24 psi or 400 g/s at red-line, but not both, I think I'm past that point now.

[RusS4]

Nice to see it getting all dialed in man.

[FlyboyS4]

Nice to see it getting all dialed in man.

It's coming along nicely. When are we going to take your car out for another session?

[TweetsS4Estate]

Do you have any F.A.T.S logs or anyspeed?

[AudiSportB5S4]

Jeff what kind of tool are you using to see boost that high? Zeitronix?

Looks good and damn that's a lot of boost! We have my buddy's set running a 24ish spike, then taper. That's of course because of a high IAT rise and no secondary cooling on the car like W/M.

Do you have any F.A.T.S logs or anyspeed?

I think anytime FATs or anyspeed are used as a measurement the acceleration chart should be with it..

[TweetsS4Estate]

Not sure what you're getting at.. But I was asking for the whole "shebang", if you will. Just to see what those boost levels are yielding.

Jeff what kind of tool are you using to see boost that high? Zeitronix?

Looks good and damn that's a lot of boost! We have my buddy's set running a 24ish spike, then taper. That's of course because of a high IAT rise and no secondary cooling on the car like W/M.



I think anytime FATs or anyspeed are used as a measurement the acceleration chart should be with it..

[FlyboyS4]

Do you have any F.A.T.S logs or anyspeed?

I'm doing a lot of experimenting right now, just to see what boost level is worth trying for and what profile works well. I've got a bunch of FATS runs, but they're all a byproduct of trying to collect some useful info to tune with. The tune is still a work in progress so I'd rather not start putting out numbers that may not be representative of the final tune. When it is done I'll be happy to share the trends I've seen and numbers I recorded. At this point it would seem that making more boost than what I'm comfortable with is easily within reach. I swapped out my 2.25" dual exhaust for a single 3.5" and boost went back up over 27 psi with the same DC that was making a more comfortable 26 psi with the dual.



I'm using a Zeitronix to record boost pressure.

[Mantis]

I am in for results, thanks for posting this up, it will make dialing in my FT tune easier

[AudiSportB5S4]

Not sure what you're getting at.. But I was asking for the whole "shebang", if you will. Just to see what those boost levels are yielding.

All I'm getting at is you were asking for FATs or anyspeed runs and I added that I personally like to see acceleration graphs anytime those two are mentioned as well, that's all.

I agree though, I mean with boost up there if I saw the correlating acceleration graphs I would be able to put 2+2 together on if these turbos are efficient at that level.

[TweetsS4Estate]

All I'm getting at is you were asking for FATs or anyspeed runs and I added that I personally like to see acceleration graphs anytime those two are mentioned as well, that's all.

I agree though, I mean with boost up there if I saw the correlating acceleration graphs I would be able to put 2+2 together on if these turbos are efficient at that level.

word, yeah I was just moving quickly on my phone when I posted. I wasn't trying to seem edgy if that's how it came across. I'm excited to see the correlating graphs and boost levels! get you shizzle dialed in flyboy!

[FlyboyS4]

I'm not gutsy enough to push my stock motor like this any more, but here's some data showing what's possible, for a short while at least.

Frankenturbo FATS @ 27_psi

[Don Supreme]

I'm not gutsy enough to push my stock motor like this any more, but here's some data showing what's possible, for a short while at least.

Frankenturbo FATS @ 27_psi

Are you still running EV14 52# injectors?

Edit: I see you are running 72lbs, so hmmmmmmmm.. What kind of fuel pump?

[FlyboyS4]

Are you still running EV14 52# injectors?

Edit: I see you are running 72lbs, so hmmmmmmmm.. What kind of fuel pump?

RS4 pump

[Don Supreme]

RS4 pump

Does Tony feel that the pump is about maxed out? It would seem like there is a fuel supply issue. I am not saying you need a new pump, just that your current fuel supply seems to be struggling to keep up... I am having a similar issue, but with smaller injectors.

[FlyboyS4]

The subject of the fuel pump has not come up.

[TweetsS4Estate]

I had an rs4 pump 60lb siemens 3bar running RS6s @ 30psi no problem.

[Don Supreme]

I had an rs4 pump 60lb siemens 3bar running RS6s @ 30psi no problem.

Well as you can see from his logs, duty cycle is on the high side... especially for such a large injector.

Again, I am not criticizing anyone here.. Just analyzing and thinking out loud.

[TweetsS4Estate]

Great numbers! That's probably not too hard on your system., I mean mayybe mayyyybe hard on your turbos. But hey they're cheap right

[Mantis]

Nice numbers, I just got my ECUx untangled, my initial logs are a ways off of yours

[TweetsS4Estate]

Of course. I was just saying the pump is able to do it.

Well as you can see from his logs, duty cycle is on the high side... especially for such a large injector.

Again, I am not criticizing anyone here.. Just analyzing and thinking out loud.

[FlyboyS4]

This log is not from a completed tune.

I'm not seeing any signs of there being inadequate fuel. It starts going rich around 5500 rpm and keeps getting richer until I get off the gas at 7000. The IDC maxes around 67%, AFR at the tailpipe is in the high 10's, and airflow is a good bit over 400 g/s.

Any time I make more boost than I had with the 605's I start getting nervous.

[Evilevo]

This log is not from a completed tune.

I'm not seeing any signs of there being inadequate fuel. It starts going rich around 5500 rpm and keeps getting richer until I get off the gas at 7000. The IDC maxes around 67%, AFR at the tailpipe is in the high 10's, and airflow is a good bit over 400 g/s.

Any time I make more boost than I had with the 605's I start getting nervous.

My tune was doing the same thing. I switched to M1 and it holds 11.8ish now. I think yours is doing it because of your rising iats.

Boost is going to be different between the two turbos, 27psi is not near the same cfm as on the 605s.

[FlyboyS4]

My tune was doing the same thing. I switched to M1 and it holds 11.8ish now. I think yours is doing it because of your rising iats.

Boost is going to be different between the two turbos, 27psi is not near the same cfm as on the 605s.

What's an M1?

I'm not following what you're saying about the boost and airflow. If IAT's are the same, rpm is the same, and boost is the same, then the same amount of air should be going into the motor.

[Don Supreme]

False alarm, I just looked at the graph again. I didn't notice that inj on time and duty cycle was on the same graph... Yup you are good on fuel.

[Evilevo]

What's an M1?

I'm not following what you're saying about the boost and airflow. If IAT's are the same, rpm is the same, and boost is the same, then the same amount of air should be going into the motor.

VP M1 Methanol.

27psi on FT != 27psi on 605s. You are barely breaking 400hp calculated, but 27psi on 605s is close to 500whp.

605s flow more CFM than FTs do and I don't think you need to worry about 27psi on the FTs. AMD ran 40+psi on the stock pistons before they had an issue.

[FlyboyS4]

27psi on FT != 27psi on 605s. You are barely breaking 400hp calculated, but 27psi on 605s is close to 500whp.

605s flow more CFM than FTs do and I don't think you need to worry about 27psi on the FTs. AMD ran 40+psi on the stock pistons before they had an issue.

At some point I think adding w/m injection would be nice to do. Just not in the plan for the time being.

For similar conditions, the FT's are moving more air (based on MAF values) or at worst equal to the 605's at every rpm that I can monitor, once they both max out the 85mm housing I can't be sure, but based upon the respective boost curves I'd expect the 605's to outlfow the FT's above 5500-6500 rpm. I'm fairly confident below that point the FT's are making more torque than the 605's. It's the low end and mid range torque that is concerning me, not the top end where I can see the FT's fall behind the 605's.

[RusS4]

Hey Jeff not sure if I told you but Im going up to EPL next month on the 5th to drop my car off. Cant wait to get it all dialed in and get back so we can see how the cars do against each other.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well as you can see from his logs, duty cycle is on the high side... especially for such a large injector.

Again, I am not criticizing anyone here.. Just analyzing and thinking out loud.

DC doesn't really mean much... as it could be the injector calibration is skewed from whatever values Tony is using to define them.... But if you look @ the O2 graph, he is going rich(er) by redline which shows the fuel system is not maxed out.

[Don Supreme]

DC doesn't really mean much... as it could be the injector calibration is skewed from whatever values Tony is using to define them.... But if you look @ the O2 graph, he is going rich(er) by redline which shows the fuel system is not maxed out.

Read my posts after that post.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Read my posts after that post.

Yuo, and I meant to quote Adam instead of you... lol... ah well.

[TweetsS4Estate]

At some point I think adding w/m injection would be nice to do. Just not in the plan for the time being.

For similar conditions, the FT's are moving more air (based on MAF values) or at worst equal to the 605's at every rpm that I can monitor, once they both max out the 85mm housing I can't be sure, but based upon the respective boost curves I'd expect the 605's to outlfow the FT's above 5500-6500 rpm. I'm fairly confident below that point the FT's are making more torque than the 605's. It's the low end and mid range torque that is concerning me, not the top end where I can see the FT's fall behind the 605's.

Dude You won't make more torque than a heavy hitting k04 E85 car on pump gas. I made 496 ftlbs at 3860RPM to the wheels. My rods didn't even shrink and I put 20k on that car, beating the daylights out of it. I would not worry about FT's blowing out rods, if you ever start knocking, then worry, but how your tune looks.. You're fine. Methanol would be awesome on that setup! do it!