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Thread: 1/4 mile times

  1. #721
    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake@JHM View Post
    Tiptronic S5s do it

    - - - Updated - - -



    We need to start tuning the B8 2.0T ECU before we start with the TCU
    the TCU on the b8's is in dire need of a tune, people on here would eat that up in a heart beat. god only knows how long we have been pushing xHP to start providing flash tunes for audi's. They tune the tiptronic 6HP28 on the BMW's just fine, but wont invest in the audi segment.

  2. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry01 View Post
    This is the same procedure as described in the manual for my MK7 GTI with DSG. I’ve been doing it in my B8.5 for a while now and trust me, it does make a big difference. The most noticeable affect is the quick, hard shifts. After 3 launches, the high transmission temps disable it though until it cools down a bit.
    What RPM do you get to before releasing the brake?
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  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    This manual says "Applies to vehicles with S tronic". S tronic = DSG.

    This does not apply to the Tiptronic. Tiptronic is what everyone in America has (it is the ZF 8 HP traditional torque converter transmission).

    Happy brake boosting everyone! I've always been scared to completely floor the gas and hold it. I've also always had shitty launches.

    The video of earythmic's launch makes it look like he has a DSG! So maybe there is some special programming in the Tiptronic?! Or maybe the factory put a DSG in your Allroad by mistake?!
    Teehee

    I’ve gotten over being scared of it. The engine kills the RPMs after 5 seconds to prevent overheating. Happened a couple times at the strip when the tree took forever to start after staging. That 2.9s 60’
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  4. #724
    Senior Member Three Rings Perry01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    What RPM do you get to before releasing the brake?
    I just went outside and did two launches using the technique described and believe me, it works with the ZF8. Once with ESC on and another launch with ECS off. BIG difference. Try it, you’ll like it!

    Launch RPM is 3000.
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  6. #726
    Stage 3 Forum Advertiser Four Rings Jake@JHM's Avatar
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    3K RPM is nothin


  7. #727
    Senior Member Three Rings Perry01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake@JHM View Post
    3K RPM is nothin
    Yea Jake, 3000 RPM isn’t high up in the powerband but it’s better than launching from idle :-)

    3000 RPM puts me pretty close to peak torque though.

    The launch control in my MK7 GT with DSG allows you to build revs to 4500 RPM but there is too much wheel spin. Even with sticky summer tires.
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    Stage 3 Forum Advertiser Four Rings Jake@JHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry01 View Post
    Yea Jake, 3000 RPM isn’t up in the powerband but it’s better than launching at 300 RPM :-)

    The launch control in my MK7 GT with DSG allows you to build revs to 4500 RPM but there is too much wheel spin. Even with sticky summer tires.
    I have had APR Stage2 with the TCU software on my MK7 for 2 years now and I still haven't launched it. I suspected it would just be wheelspin which I don't need to launch to get

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake@JHM View Post
    I have had APR Stage2 with the TCU software on my MK7 for 2 years now and I still haven't launched it. I suspected it would just be wheelspin which I don't need to launch to get
    It bet it works well in a tuned Golf R with DSG.
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    Stage 3 Forum Advertiser Four Rings Jake@JHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry01 View Post
    It bet it works well in a tuned Golf R.
    I have launched an MK7R and it works really well

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    This manual says "Applies to vehicles with S tronic". S tronic = DSG.

    This does not apply to the Tiptronic. Tiptronic is what everyone in America has (it is the ZF 8 HP traditional torque converter transmission).

    Happy brake boosting everyone! I've always been scared to completely floor the gas and hold it. I've also always had shitty launches.

    The video of earythmic's launch makes it look like he has a DSG! So maybe there is some special programming in the Tiptronic?! Or maybe the factory put a DSG in your Allroad by mistake?!
    Allroad is ZF8....and I can confirm that this works.


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  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry01 View Post
    This is the same procedure as described in the manual for my MK7 GTI with DSG. I’ve been doing it in my B8.5 for a while now and trust me, it does make a big difference. The most noticeable affect is the quick, hard shifts. After 3 launches, the high transmission temps disable it though until it cools down a bit.
    Just a note, the ECU stores the number of “launch control” launches.


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  13. #733
    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    the ultimate goal of the launch control is to launch at full boost, whatever gets it done

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    You can count the number of times I’ve launched it on both hands.

    The ZF 8HP55AF is rated at a max of 516 lb. ft. of torque. It’s pretty tough.
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    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    heres another JHM product request....a decent performance radiator lmao

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    Established Member Two Rings base14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    This manual says "Applies to vehicles with S tronic". S tronic = DSG.

    This does not apply to the Tiptronic. Tiptronic is what everyone in America has (it is the ZF 8 HP traditional torque converter transmission).

    Happy brake boosting everyone! I've always been scared to completely floor the gas and hold it. I've also always had shitty launches.

    The video of earythmic's launch makes it look like he has a DSG! So maybe there is some special programming in the Tiptronic?! Or maybe the factory put a DSG in your Allroad by mistake?!
    It works perfectly on my 2010 Q5 3.2L with the 6 spd tiptronic. Fairly certain it will work with all B8 cars. Believe me, without these parameters engaged and if you try to brake boost, it will pull on the brakes harder and will not rev hold at 3k. And of course will have slush box shifts..
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    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by base14 View Post
    This is false, because it works perfectly on my 2010 Q5 3.2L with the 6 spd tiptronic. Fairly certain it will work with all B8 cars. Believe me, without these parameters engaged and if you try to brake boost, it will pull on the brakes harder and will not rev hold at 3k. And of course will have slush box shifts..
    im curious how they do this on the autos, i know the tiptronics have the ability to decouple the torque converter, but for all intents and purposes, if this does work, its not brake boosting at all, far as i can tell

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    Established Member Two Rings base14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
    im curious how they do this on the autos, i know the tiptronics have the ability to decouple the torque converter, but for all intents and purposes, if this does work, its not brake boosting at all, far as i can tell
    Dont care how it works, just does lol. Y'all just have to go out and try it!

    And yes there have been reports of the ECU taking a counter on the launch counts and disabling it after a certain number. It was rumored to be around 200, and even if it is disabled I believe the dealership can re-enable it as long as they check it over and deem the tranny safe to continue launching. Oh the joys of Audi Quality Assurance..
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    Quote Originally Posted by earhythmic View Post
    And for guys wondering about launch rpm:

    This 1 to 2 shift is something I've never experienced in my car. The video is like a DSG! Definitely need to try this. I'll probably leave pieces of my transmission laying around...

    I always thought that these are conventional torque converter transmissions and there really is nothing the ECU/TCU can do to enable a launch control. Until someone can explain the exact dynamics of it, I will always believe it is just brake boosting.

    A DSG can decouple the engine from the transmission and then quickly engage the clutch for a fast launch. This is what is known as launch control. The torque converter transmission cannot mechanically do this! Unless it has some way of disengaging first gear while the car is in D or S, but as far as I know there is no mechanical way of doing this other than shifting to neutral! When I hold the brakes and push the gas, my RPMs climb and my car kind of jumps and stiffens up; I can feel the entire driveline twisting and being held back by the brakes.
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    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    This 1 to 2 shift is something I've never experienced in my car. The video is like a DSG! Definitely need to try this. I'll probably leave pieces of my transmission laying around...

    I always thought that these are conventional torque converter transmissions and there really is nothing the ECU/TCU can do to enable a launch control. Until someone can explain the exact dynamics of it, I will always believe it is just brake boosting.

    A DSG can decouple the engine from the transmission and then quickly engage the clutch for a fast launch. This is what is known as launch control. The torque converter transmission cannot mechanically do this! Unless it has some way of disengaging first gear while the car is in D or S, but as far as I know there is no mechanical way of doing this other than shifting to neutral! When I hold the brakes and push the gas, my RPMs climb and my car kind of jumps and stiffens up; I can feel the entire driveline twisting and being held back by the brakes.
    The ZF transmissions do have decoupling torque converters, but I do not fully understand the process by which it works. They list it on their website as "Stand-by-control NIC - in stand-by, the torque converter decoupling prevents unnecessary vibrations and reduces fuel consumption"

  21. #741
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    A torque converter is not a clutch. Even if it can decouple, it can not engage again like a clutch would and transmit 350 ft lbs of torque instantaneously.
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  22. #742
    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    A torque converter is not a clutch. Even if it can decouple, it can not engage again like a clutch would and transmit 350 ft lbs of torque instantaneously.
    I understand this my man. lol That is the reason why I am puzzled as to how the tiptronic can do this launch control like people are describing.

  23. #743
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    Interesting read that might shed some light. We should start a new thread on this transmission and launch control topic.

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...eed-automatic/

    All sequential upshifts and downshifts with this design involve just releasing one shift element and engaging another. In engineering literature, this is referred to as a “clutch to clutch” shift......This transmission therefore shifts very quickly. If the torque converter is replaced by a launch clutch, this transmission would be equivalent to a dual clutch transmission.
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    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    Interesting read that might shed some light. We should start a new thread on this transmission and launch control topic.

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...eed-automatic/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post
    I understand this my man. lol That is the reason why I am puzzled as to how the tiptronic can do this launch control like people are describing.
    Looking at that video it is more like brake boosting. I've had a couple of DSG cars and a true launch control allows free revving like you have a manual transmission car with the clutch pushed in. In true launch control you can literally bounce the revs up and down to the launch control limit wherever it set at whether it be 3000 RPM 4000 RPM or whatever. In the video it looked like it was brake boosting up to 3000 RPM.

    There's a way you guys can test this. If folks with the Tiptronic continue to hold the throttle while you have the brake depressed for about 5 seconds or so you will get throttle cut. That's not from overheating that's from the Audi program that does not allow the throttle pressed with the brake for more than 5 Seconds. And it also means you are not in launch control mode because the car is detecting both the throttle and Brake are pressed at the same time. If your car has launch control once you get into launch control mode you can bounce the revs as long as you want while the brake is depressed.

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  26. #746
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 Centaur's Avatar
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    ^Thats what was going on when I tried to launch. The car would shut down the revs and it would take a few seconds for the car to recover before I could even move off the line.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4 Centaur View Post
    ^Thats what was going on when I tried to launch. The car would shut down the revs and it would take a few seconds for the car to recover before I could even move off the line.
    Yeah I know :) that's because what people are doing is brake boosting. When you're loading up on those 3000 RPMs with automatic transmission you can feel the car actually wanting to go forward and fighting against the brakes because your brake boosting.

    In launch control the transmission goes to a neutral State while you are revving you can really rev up and down and the car is not struggling against the brakes it's in neutral and then when you release the brake the clutches grab and slingshot you forward. Obviously that's not possible with our automatic transmissions

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  28. #748
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    Having both a DSG and Tiptronic, I can say that the so called “launch control” on my B8.5 Tiptronic is not a true launch control. I can also say for certainty that when you follow the same procedure with the Tiptronic, you are brake boosting but what you get are quicker, more aggressive shifts. Plus, RPM’s build to 3000 whereas they only raise to around 2800 without following the steps listed above.

    Call it what you want but Audi has altered the gearbox to allow for quicker launches using this procedure in the ZF8.
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  29. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry01 View Post
    Having both a DSG and Tiptronic, I can say that the so called “launch control” on my B8.5 Tiptronic is not a true launch control. I can also say for certainty that when you follow the same procedure with the Tiptronic, you are brake boosting but what you get are quicker, more aggressive shifts. Plus, RPM’s build to 3000 whereas they only raise to around 2800 without following the steps listed above.

    Call it what you want but Audi has altered the gearbox to allow for quicker launches using this procedure in the ZF8.
    Correct because previous to having a tune this is the only instance the vehicle will allow left foot braking

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  30. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by base14 View Post
    It's not in the manual but there is a Launch Control built in to the vehicle. Works on my Q5 and all other B8/8.5/9 cars. You need to launch with the steering wheel centered, traction control off, and in sport mode. Hold the brake firmly and floor the accelerator. The engine revs up to and holds around 2.5-3k until you drop the brake and launch. The shifting is much crisper if this procedure is followed exactly, and is better than just sport mode alone.

    clicky scroll to post #9.

    Note the engine needs to be at 100% operating temp for AMAX to engage.
    I was under the impression originally that the B8 ZF8 with the 2.0T had launch control as well...it does not. It is just brake boosting. When I first posted about it people were quick to point out that it does not and that is only a feature on the DSG. With a tune on the motor, it will allow brake boosting. There are a lot of protections built into the car to try and prevent the user from damaging it if you hold the boosting to long. It may depend on the spec model as to what it does to do this.

    However, it appears that by using the brake boosting that there is some programming built into it that will slam through the upshifts more quickly when doing the above procedure. The shifts become reminiscent of a GM Turbo Hydro 400 prepared for drag racing.

    As for the “decoupling” of the torque converter, this is just a locking/unlocking torque converter on our ZF8. Nothing particularly all that unusual... These transmissions were designed to be modular so in place of the torque converter a clutch can be used if the car manufacturer decide. In doing so it basically becomes very similar to DSG.


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    I tried it this morning and it worked. Crazy I couldn't do this at the drag strip.
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  32. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4 Centaur View Post
    I tried it this morning and it worked. Crazy I couldn't do this at the drag strip.
    What did you do differently?
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  33. #753
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    1/4 mile times

    Quote Originally Posted by Perry01 View Post
    Having both a DSG and Tiptronic, I can say that the so called “launch control” on my B8.5 Tiptronic is not a true launch control. I can also say for certainty that when you follow the same procedure with the Tiptronic, you are brake boosting but what you get are quicker, more aggressive shifts. Plus, RPM’s build to 3000 whereas they only raise to around 2800 without following the steps listed above.

    Call it what you want but Audi has altered the gearbox to allow for quicker launches using this procedure in the ZF8.
    Agree....changing the stall on the torque converter (at launch) but by allowing some load building boost (brake boosting) but also affecting the speed of the lock up between shifts (firmness)

    And yes there is a limit to the amount of time you can hold (brake boost) it built in.


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    Established Member Two Rings base14's Avatar
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    Quite the debate I’ve stirred up


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  35. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    What did you do differently?
    I just did the sequence as described. Guess I wasted 8 runs at the drags, if I would have followed directions properly this would not be an issue.
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  36. #756
    Established Member Four Rings Spawne32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4 Centaur View Post
    I just did the sequence as described. Guess I wasted 8 runs at the drags, if I would have followed directions properly this would not be an issue.
    im gonna give this a try one of these days but im really not convinced that the tiptronics do this, and i wont be unless i see it for myself. it really goes against all my understanding of how a conventional automatic transmission works, regardless of how fancy the ZF trans is compared to what im used to with most typical domestic transmissions.

  37. #757
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    It definitely changes the way it shifts, it’s more “violent”

    surprised me






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  38. #758
    Veteran Member Four Rings hyperunion's Avatar
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    I did the same.. great shifting and a 13.0 quarter mile at 105 on stg 2 and 55% ethanol!....

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  39. #759
    Veteran Member Four Rings SleeperCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLAllroad View Post
    From the 2015 B8.5 A4/Allroad manual



    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    Unless I’ve missed something, this is simply brake boosting, I’ve done this at almost every open Red light lol.

    Launch control is another animal all together.

    Connect the dots to why ZF8 doesn’t have tunes.
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  40. #760
    Veteran Member Four Rings bhvrdr's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think its best just termed "launch control lite" -- (LCL?) :) It probably throws the zf into a more aggressive shift strategy like people are reporting. It cant go full LC where it neutral revs and you dump the clutches at 3k or 4k rpm but its still probably a more aggressive run than just mashing and go.

    Mike

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