APR Stage 1+ Question

**thomcat333** · 03-21-2005 09:32 PM

Question from a forum newbie... I've had my B6 A4 for about 8 months and I love it, but I'm looking for a bit more power.

I've pretty much decided on the APR Stage 1+ setup, but I thought I'd ask who has been running this already and how many miles you've put on it? How much extra maintenance is required to maintain engine reliability with the higher boost levels? Any problems so far?

Thanks for the input guys.

**4cefed4** · 03-22-2005 08:06 AM

First off, this is the Audi TT forum, this question should be posted in the A4 forum. I had never heard of the stage 1+ terminology, so I went to check out APR's website. Honestly, for $1000 I don't think it's worth it. I don't exactly understand why they are including new injectors instead of just upgrading the fuel pressure regular. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm on the stock injectors and FPR in my 1.8T GTI, and I am making above the numbers they claim with the stage 1+ kit. Might want to shop around at GIAC, REVO, and Upsolute.

**Imperial** · 03-22-2005 12:15 PM

moving to appropriate forum...

**boosted4rings** · 03-22-2005 12:20 PM

Hey just search around a bit this topic has been discussed before. I don't personally have the apr 1+ setup, but from reading in terms of maintenance your gonna wanna upgrade some parts. The reliablity of the stock one's aren't going to hold up to well. The first upgrade should be the dv to hold the higher boost.

**FINA4** · 03-22-2005 12:26 PM

Here's the list of people who has/had APR Stag 1+:

Me (FINA4)
DLSJ5
HighPSI
PwAg
A4'n in TO
stealth
damnitrudy
Jrunr

I'm sure there's more people but those came to my mind now.

I've had mine for 5k miles and I absolutely love it!

No extra maintenance needed (except DV, exhaust and FMIC are recommended).

**HighPSI** · 03-22-2005 12:27 PM

Originally posted by thomcat333
Question from a forum newbie... I've had my B6 A4 for about 8 months and I love it, but I'm looking for a bit more power.

I've pretty much decided on the APR Stage 1+ setup, but I thought I'd ask who has been running this already and how many miles you've put on it? How much extra maintenance is required to maintain engine reliability with the higher boost levels? Any problems so far?

Thanks for the input guys.

tomcat- def search around the b6 forum, you havent got any accurate info from the guys who replied when you accidentally posted in the wrong forum

**FINA4** · 03-22-2005 12:27 PM

Originally posted by 4cefed4
First off, this is the Audi TT forum, this question should be posted in the A4 forum. I had never heard of the stage 1+ terminology, so I went to check out APR's website. Honestly, for $1000 I don't think it's worth it. I don't exactly understand why they are including new injectors instead of just upgrading the fuel pressure regular. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm on the stock injectors and FPR in my 1.8T GTI, and I am making above the numbers they claim with the stage 1+ kit. Might want to shop around at GIAC, REVO, and Upsolute.

These comments are not valid for B6 A4 so you can ignore them.

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 12:34 PM

4k no problems... you will not be disipointed...

However, unless you are going to a stage 3+ I would suggest going with the TT injectors. The APR ones are harder to install.

**DLSJ5** · 03-22-2005 12:37 PM

Originally posted by 4cefed4
First off, this is the Audi TT forum, this question should be posted in the A4 forum. I had never heard of the stage 1+ terminology, so I went to check out APR's website. Honestly, for $1000 I don't think it's worth it. I don't exactly understand why they are including new injectors instead of just upgrading the fuel pressure regular. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm on the stock injectors and FPR in my 1.8T GTI, and I am making above the numbers they claim with the stage 1+ kit. Might want to shop around at GIAC, REVO, and Upsolute.

The B6 1.8t comes with a variable FPR that can go up to 5 BAR, if necessary. However it's not a return system like the B5's and VW's.

Here's why it's worth it.

Stage 1+ dyno results

**A4ringedONE8T** · 03-22-2005 12:42 PM

I've had APR stg1 for about 4 months now and 1+ for about a month. You will want to upgrade your factory DV to an aftermaket DV or BOV to help with the extra boost. This isn't essential at first but it will go bad eventually because of the higher boost levels. Of course a FMIC and exhaust will make the 1+ more efficient and give you more power but can be added much farther down the road. The only problem I've had with mine and probably the biggest problem with some 1+ A4's is if you run the RPM's too close to the new redline before shifting, it may cause a loss of ecu communication and will cause each cylinder to misfire and give you a CEL. Once the codes are cleared your back to a clean slate and good to go again. The power gains are definitely noticeable and are a great addition if your looking for an easy HP gain without too much $$$

**HighPSI** · 03-22-2005 12:47 PM

Originally posted by A4ringedONE8T
The only problem I've had with mine and probably the biggest problem with some 1+ A4's is if you run the RPM's too close to the new redline before shifting, it may cause a loss of ecu communication and will cause each cylinder to misfire and give you a CEL. Once the codes are cleared your back to a clean slate and good to go again.

i've never heard this issue, can you elaborate, what is the new redline anyway? I just go by the stock redline since there's no more power at 6000rpms anyway

**DLSJ5** · 03-22-2005 12:48 PM

Originally posted by A4ringedONE8T
I've had APR stg1 for about 4 months now and 1+ for about a month. You will want to upgrade your factory DV to an aftermaket DV or BOV to help with the extra boost. This isn't essential at first but it will go bad eventually because of the higher boost levels. Of course a FMIC and exhaust will make the 1+ more efficient and give you more power but can be added much farther down the road. The only problem I've had with mine and probably the biggest problem with some 1+ A4's is if you run the RPM's too close to the new redline before shifting, it may cause a loss of ecu communication and will cause each cylinder to misfire and give you a CEL. Once the codes are cleared your back to a clean slate and good to go again. The power gains are definitely noticeable and are a great addition if your looking for an easy HP gain without too much $$$

Misfires at Redline? Never had that happen. I did have a misfire at idle only, due to a bad injector other than that the car ran fantastic. When I installed the Stage 3, the abused K03 looked brand new, the TB and Com blades looked stellar.

**FINA4** · 03-22-2005 12:50 PM

Originally posted by HighPSI
i've never heard this issue, can you elaborate, what is the new redline anyway? I just go by the stock redline since there's no more power at 6000rpms anyway

Me neither. No cylinder misfires or CELs.

**Vortec4800** · 03-22-2005 01:29 PM

Originally posted by DLSJ5
Misfires at Redline? Never had that happen. I did have a misfire at idle only, due to a bad injector other than that the car ran fantastic. When I installed the Stage 3, the abused K03 looked brand new, the TB and Com blades looked stellar.

How many miles of said abuse?

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 01:50 PM

Originally posted by A4ringedONE8T
the biggest problem with some 1+ A4's is if you run the RPM's too close to the new redline before shifting, it may cause a loss of ecu communication and will cause each cylinder to misfire and give you a CEL. Once the codes are cleared your back to a clean slate and good to go again.

eh? Mis-fires and loss ECU communication?? first I have heard of this do you have anymore information on this?

HighPSI already asked this but just so it doesn't get missed... what is the new redline?????

**Vinchenzo** · 03-22-2005 04:55 PM

When I had the Stage 1+ installed I started noticing my cylinders misfiring and had the mechanic at the dealership confirm it. I told Chris at APR about the problems I was having and he sent out some new injectors (stage 3 injectors)....I had the stage 3 injectors to begin with. Now I don't notice the cylinders misfiring, but I still get the engine light coming on every now and then. When I go to have it checked out, the mechanic tells me that the codes are saying that the cylinders are misfiring. I am going to have Chris check my car out when I go to the BBQ in 2 weeks. Ill be sure to let y'all know what's up.....that is if y'all are interested.

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Vinchenzo
When I had the Stage 1+ installed I started noticing my cylinders misfiring and had the mechanic at the dealership confirm it. I told Chris at APR about the problems I was having and he sent out some new injectors (stage 3 injectors)....I had the stage 3 injectors to begin with. Now I don't notice the cylinders misfiring, but I still get the engine light coming on every now and then. When I go to have it checked out, the mechanic tells me that the codes are saying that the cylinders are misfiring. I am going to have Chris check my car out when I go to the BBQ in 2 weeks. Ill be sure to let y'all know what's up.....that is if y'all are interested.

That is interesting... can you tell me what year your car is. I do know that there SEEMS to be a problem with '02s and APR injectors. However, they seem fine with TT ones.

**4cefed4** · 03-22-2005 05:04 PM

Originally posted by DLSJ5
The B6 1.8t comes with a variable FPR that can go up to 5 BAR, if necessary. However it's not a return system like the B5's and VW's.

Here's why it's worth it.
Stage 1+ dyno results

What's the flow rate of the stock B6 1.8T injectors? If the FPR really can go up to 5 bar, it seems silly to upgrade the injectors for just a chip. I doubt that Audi would downgrade the fuel system from previous standards, which brings back my point that if I can make the same power and more torque on stock VW/B5 fueling, then why is upgrading the injectors necessary?

**Vinchenzo** · 03-22-2005 05:06 PM

I have a 2004 A4 Ultrasport Quattro 6spd. I have noticed some people on Audiworld posting similiar problems.

**FINA4** · 03-22-2005 05:09 PM

Originally posted by 4cefed4
What's the flow rate of the stock B6 1.8T injectors? If the FPR really can go up to 5 bar, it seems silly to upgrade the injectors for just a chip. I doubt that Audi would downgrade the fuel system from previous standards, which brings back my point that if I can make the same power and more torque on stock VW/B5 fueling, then why is upgrading the injectors necessary?

282cc is stock flow. With upgraded injectors, it is 386cc. In B6 A4 (1.8T) bigger injectors bring about 20hp/35lb-ft extra. And it's not BS, the difference is like day and night.

**A4ringedONE8T** · 03-22-2005 05:19 PM

My car is an 04' and I have the 386cc Bosch 225TT injectors. I had a check engine light come on about a week after I got the 1+. I took it to the dealer that programmed it and he vag'd my car and the codes were loss of communication with ecu, and misfires on cylinders 1 - 4. I talked to APR along with a few other people that had the same CEL shortly after the 1+ addition. I was told that its a bug in the programming and that if the car is run too close to the red line it causes the misfire codes to come up along with loss of communication with ecu. Once you shut the car off and restart it, the CEL comes on. The misfires were never anything that I noticed but were the only fault codes present. I guess its just a bug that hasn't been worked out yet which is what I was told or this is at least was the reasoning for my problem. I don't know what are redline is raised to, does anyone else know?

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 05:22 PM

Originally posted by 4cefed4
What's the flow rate of the stock B6 1.8T injectors? If the FPR really can go up to 5 bar, it seems silly to upgrade the injectors for just a chip. I doubt that Audi would downgrade the fuel system from previous standards, which brings back my point that if I can make the same power and more torque on stock VW/B5 fueling, then why is upgrading the injectors necessary?

The new fuel system on the B6 1.8T has been the biggest hurdle in tunning it.

However, from what I knew and from my old b5 the b5/vw produced about 215hp/247lb-ft (91 OCT) chipped. With injectors the B6 produces about 229hp/271lb-ft (91 OCT), there is a slight torque difference there wouldn't you say?

Also, the fuel system is not down graded its just a different design its not a return systm.

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 05:24 PM

Originally posted by A4ringedONE8T
My car is an 04' and I have the 386cc Bosch 225TT injectors. I had a check engine light come on about a week after I got the 1+. I took it to the dealer that programmed it and he vag'd my car and the codes were loss of communication with ecu, and misfires on cylinders 1 - 4. I talked to APR along with a few other people that had the same CEL shortly after the 1+ addition. I was told that its a bug in the programming and that if the car is run too close to the red line it causes the misfire codes to come up along with loss of communication with ecu. Once you shut the car off and restart it, the CEL comes on. The misfires were never anything that I noticed but were the only fault codes present. I guess its just a bug that hasn't been worked out yet which is what I was told or this is at least was the reasoning for my problem. I don't know what are redline is raised to, does anyone else know?

Will a check engine light always come on with a miss-fire?

**FINA4** · 03-22-2005 05:27 PM

Originally posted by A4ringedONE8T
My car is an 04' and I have the 386cc Bosch 225TT injectors. I had a check engine light come on about a week after I got the 1+. I took it to the dealer that programmed it and he vag'd my car and the codes were loss of communication with ecu, and misfires on cylinders 1 - 4. I talked to APR along with a few other people that had the same CEL shortly after the 1+ addition. I was told that its a bug in the programming and that if the car is run too close to the red line it causes the misfire codes to come up along with loss of communication with ecu. Once you shut the car off and restart it, the CEL comes on. The misfires were never anything that I noticed but were the only fault codes present. I guess its just a bug that hasn't been worked out yet which is what I was told or this is at least was the reasoning for my problem. I don't know what are redline is raised to, does anyone else know?

I have exact same car and same setup and I haven't got any cylinder misfires nor CELs yet. Weird...

**Gzo17** · 03-22-2005 05:38 PM

Has anyone out there done stage 1+ but drives auto??? its really tempting and I know I shouldnt but I want to make my car faster..lol

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Gzo17
Has anyone out there done stage 1+ but drives auto??? its really tempting and I know I shouldnt but I want to make my car faster..lol

retrohasen I think is Auto with APR 1+

**Spinnetti** · 03-22-2005 06:13 PM

its cool unless you have an 02... I have it and it plain doesn't work. Almost 4 months and no serious attempts to fix it either... (getting cranky)

**A4'n in TO** · 03-22-2005 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Spinnetti
its cool unless you have an 02... I have it and it plain doesn't work. Almost 4 months and no serious attempts to fix it either... (getting cranky)

Do you have APR Injectors though??? I know that it should work regardless I am just interested...

**DLSJ5** · 03-22-2005 08:46 PM

Originally posted by A4'n in TO
Will a check engine light always come on with a miss-fire?

Only if you pass say 25 or so, maybe more. It will throw a code if you get just a few.

**Jrunr** · 03-22-2005 09:10 PM

Drew: You got PM

**DLSJ5** · 03-22-2005 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Jrunr
Drew: You got PM

Right back at you.

**4cefed4** · 03-23-2005 06:44 PM

Originally posted by FINA4
282cc is stock flow. With upgraded injectors, it is 386cc. In B6 A4 (1.8T) bigger injectors bring about 20hp/35lb-ft extra. And it's not BS, the difference is like day and night.

My stock AWP injectors are 317cc @ 3.0 bar, kind of interesting. I believe the difference in numbers between stage 1 and stage 1+,. What I'm really questioning is how agressive stage 1 is, and if stage 1+ or close to stage 1+ conditions would really be more than the stock injectors could handle.

To the person asking about cylinder misfires. The ECU notes (but doesn't record as a DTC) the first misfire that occurs. After that it examines how long it is before the next misfire is in that same cylinder. If you accumulate 2-3 or more misfires during a running period your ECU will store the "Intermittant misfire in cylinder #" DTC. If the misfires occur regularly, or if the intermittant DTC is recorded a certain number of times, then the MIL/CEL will come on.

**1/4 scale** · 03-23-2005 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Spinnetti
its cool unless you have an 02... I have it and it plain doesn't work. Almost 4 months and no serious attempts to fix it either... (getting cranky)

I wrote a note to APR inquiring into this. 24 hrs afterwards I received an email stating that they are "feverishly" working on a solution and that they think they have it.

No mention yet of a new s/w release (I know, I know .... "two weeks" .... I'm so tired of that one guys :-(

**Vinchenzo** · 03-25-2005 09:59 PM

Just read this on Audiworld.....
http://www.audiworld.com/forum/a4gen2.html

**Vinchenzo** · 03-25-2005 10:04 PM

Ugh!!...I don't think that link will work..here is the post I am talking about

****************************************************************************************************************************************************************

APR Stage 1+ w/ latest software installed .......So far So GOOD!...........
Posted by Bolo on 2005-03-25 08:51:54
So Last Tuesday, the 3rd version of the Stage1+ software for my 2002 A4 was installed....again this is to remedy the CEL warnings & other issues affecting just the 2002 1.8T A4s with the APR stage1+ w/ APR Injectors........

Well it made it through the week. For 3 days now, the car is finally running like a Champ.....No CEL, Boost is always there on demand, Car even idles alot smoother than when it had the 2 previous software. And I thought the little misfiring I was getting before was normal. Most important is that I finally get to appreciate how much more power the Stage1+ delivers compared to the old NS 1.2 chip that was on the car. I'm actually more worried about my original clutch now cause the car does lunges and pulls much harder on 1st & 2nd gear......

about...

"

**thomcat333** · 03-26-2005 09:45 AM

Thanks for all the info guys. My only other question is how much harder is the higher boost from the 1+ setup going to be on the engine over the long haul compared to the stage 1 setup? (assuming I upgrade the DV, exhaust, and probably eventually the clutch) I havn't had the car long and would like to keep it around for a while. Thanks again.

**Spinnetti** · 02-10-2007 09:25 PM

I have exactly the same thing.. in hot weather, I get the flashing check engine light if I come to a hard stop too...

APR has been jacking me around on various issues for a year or so.. Never doing business with them again.