2004 Audi S4 timing chain tensioner broke - question on recommended scheduling

[edyang]

Hi,

My 2004 S4 timing chain tensioner broke a few days back, leading to damage that's about $5k to fix. I am currently at 76k miles.

Does anyone have an original manual lying around that shows what the recommended replacement was for the timing chain and/or the tensioner?

The Bentley website shows 75k miles but it then says :2.8 turbo only; I'm not sure if that means that doesn't include the 4.8L?

I'm also suspicious that they've changed it since the lawsuit related to the 1.8t and TTs.

Thanks!

Ed

[ozo101]

i dont think you are supposed to service timing chain tenssioners or timing chain on the 4.2 they just brake or go bad and you get a new engine, sorry, at least thats what I did

[dparm]

And you had no warning signs of this thing going bad? Noise, etc.

[halik]

Hi,

My 2004 S4 timing chain tensioner broke a few days back, leading to damage that's about $5k to fix. I am currently at 76k miles.

Does anyone have an original manual lying around that shows what the recommended replacement was for the timing chain and/or the tensioner?

The Bentley website shows 75k miles but it then says :2.8 turbo only; I'm not sure if that means that doesn't include the 4.8L?

I'm also suspicious that they've changed it since the lawsuit related to the 1.8t and TTs.

Thanks!

Ed

I don't think those things have a maintenance schedule. Do you have an early '04?

[beemercer]

Yeah, it's not a service item.

[Abwasserleitung]

The convention is 75k for tensioners/guides, chain is good for life. I had a couple guides go and it led to damage in the valvetrain, scoured cylinder wall, 20% loss of compression in 2 cylinders and eventually leading to a new engine. Some warranties cover guides, tensioners, chain, cam adjusters etc. And if your guides/tensioners are not covered your hope is a camshaft adjuster goes out or something that is covered under warranty and while the shops is at it you have them change your tensioner and guides and just pay for it out of pocket. Atleast that way the warranty will absorb the 22+ hours of labor to pull and engine for repairing the adjuster. You might incur a few more hours of labor for the tensioners and guides but it wont be $5k for an engine pull. Just my .02 cents. BTW new engine with labor of tear down came close to $20k and I am still waiting on the engine to come from Germany which will take up to 8 weeks.

[Xyber]

Is there any way to check the tensioner? Threads like this make me paranoid. I've got the rattle for a few seconds on startup but then it's fine. What noises if any, did your make prior to failing?

[manhattanprjkt8]

how much are the parts to do the guides for the chain?

I am going to have my motor out next week and will most likely do this.

[manhattanprjkt8]

Is there any way to check the tensioner? Threads like this make me paranoid. I've got the rattle for a few seconds on startup but then it's fine. What noises if any, did your make prior to failing?

that is normal...but can also be a sign of tensioner wear...you really dont know on this till YOU KNOW

[SpeedETC]

how much are the parts to do the guides for the chain?

I am going to have my motor out next week and will most likely do this.

If you are going to have you motor out, definitely do the work. I just did mine (guides/tensioners/chains). Parts will run you around 800 if you do chains (chains alone add up to 480). Add in another 900 if you change the cam adjusters.

[Xyber]

I thought that may be the case. I may have to buy a warranty, wait a few months, then make the call

[drew]

broken tensioner at 75K? that car must have been driven hard... are you the original owner?

[manhattanprjkt8]

If you are going to have you motor out, definitely do the work. I just did mine (guides/tensioners/chains). Parts will run you around 800 if you do chains (chains alone add up to 480). Add in another 900 if you change the cam adjusters.

I think my cam adjusters are bad, so i should figure about 1800 on parts to do the whole show?

I basically want to replace every part that can go bad which would require an engine to be removed 78k on the clock.

[manhattanprjkt8]

broken tensioner at 75K? that car must have been driven hard... are you the original owner?

I sorta thought the same thing, wow.

[Abwasserleitung]

Mine started with an ever so slight knock that improved with new coils and plugs but came back after a couple months. It was most noticeable when car was at operating temp and anytime my cam adjusters were working hard or above 5000 rpms. IIRC lift/duration is altered around 5000 rpms. I thought it had to be something in the valvetrain to cause the knock but my SA stethoscoped the rear engine cover and said it sounds like it coming from the rear of the motor....."could be your guides". So I authorized the engine pull and get a call back saying that it was the guides and the "knock" was the timing chain riding up onto the gears when it settle back onto the teeth it would cause it to knock. It was more like a slight shake. And when the car was cold or at operating temp but not driven over 5000 rpms then it ran smooth. So while the engine was out I had my dealer run a compression test to find out that my valves weren't sealing and was losing 20% + on two cylinders. Then the warranty company ask the dealer to tear it down to the block to see if it's servicable and that's when they find a scour on the lower cylinder wall. And after 2 months I finally have an engine coming from Germany. A warranty on these cars will pay for themselves over and over. Well worth the money spent. If you don't have one then start pricing one. Granted I handle the indirect dealer auto financing for the bank I work at and see these issues time and time again. I've even had to refinance auto loans to cover these costs which could of been avoided and less costly if a warranty would of been purchased.

[PNW Avant]

manufacture date?

[ArthurPE]

there is nothing in Audi's published maintenance schedule required for this...
the V belt needs replaced at 75k
the engine manual says 'the chain drive is maintenance-free and designed for lifetime service'

[AndyGs4]

I think my cam adjusters are bad, so i should figure about 1800 on parts to do the whole show?

I basically want to replace every part that can go bad which would require an engine to be removed 78k on the clock.

If you are doing a timing service, imo replace tensioners, guides and adjusters......always...No reason to pull the engine and not replace everything but the adjusters just to have an adjuster go out next year and you have to pull the engine again. Chains hold up rather well imo, but again with as much labor as it is to get in there $480 is cheap just to be confident your car will be good for a real long time.

Early build B6s are the ones that are most prone to timing failures. Audi has upgraded the parts in the timing system several times since then. If you pull your B6 engine and get all new timing components, your car will likely be good a real long time......like well over another 100K miles....

[Abwasserleitung]

there is nothing in Audi's published maintenance schedule required for this...
the V belt needs replaced at 75k
the engine manual says 'the chain drive is maintenance-free and designed for lifetime service'

I am refering to information by my SA and other Audi techs. Audi does consider the chain drive to be maintenance free but guides will wear over time as a result of improper operation or driving habits i.e. bouncing off the tach when the engine is cold or bad tensioners causing uneven wear on the guides, etc. I'm assuming the prior owner ran the car pretty hard. My build date was 10/03. Too close for comfort.

[SpeedETC]

there is nothing in Audi's published maintenance schedule required for this...
the V belt needs replaced at 75k
the engine manual says 'the chain drive is maintenance-free and designed for lifetime service'

Definitely no published schedule, but there should be for the guides. When my timing cover was pulled off, one of the guides was cracked. We did not know how bad until tension was removed from the chain. The guide was cracked through, but was still being held on by the chain.

[edyang]

Is there any way to check the tensioner? Threads like this make me paranoid. I've got the rattle for a few seconds on startup but then it's fine. What noises if any, did your make prior to failing?

The first sign that something was amiss was the "battery" warning light came on. Then I noticed a rattling sound with the engine on. Very worried, I drove it to the mechanics as the rattling got worse and the electricals started failing. Only with God's grace did my car make it there; the mechanic couldn't start it up at all. 36 hours of inspection later was the verdict.

[edyang]

broken tensioner at 75K? that car must have been driven hard... are you the original owner?

It was a lease assumption, but I took it over pretty early in the lease. I don't believe I've driven it hard, a mix of LA freeways and surface streets. In fact, the last 2 years I've been working from home so there's not been much miles put on it at all. That's the part that's frustrating.

[edyang]

I sorta thought the same thing, wow.

I took over the car early in its lease and have not driven it hard. Mix of freeway and surface streets, not much driving at all in the last 2 years.

[manhattanprjkt8]

funny you started this thread, my engine is a mess right now with a whole bank misfiring...looks like it is a timing related issue so the motor is coming out on my dime (i am getting a good price), so i am going to do the tensioners and guides along with the adjustments so i can sleep at night...I agree $480 isnt a bad pill to swallow when you are talking about pulling the motor...

worried about something like this forever, can't believe it happened but i am just going to work with it.

Funny because i was just telling someone that my car is now perfect, susp, exhaust, wheels, cosmetics...always something, gotta pay to play i guess.

[JMB331]

Where is the best place to get the parts tensioners, guides, chains ect. for price and quility, im thinking about just doing them while i still have my second car?

[JVASILIAUSKAS]

Same problem here..but taking a different approach. Audi settled a class action suit on 2000 2001 2002 2003 A4T...Case is Olson vs VW. Thats the route to take. There is a serious problem.

[JVASILIAUSKAS]

I have a 2004 S4 with a need for new engine due to the same problem. Its currently sitting in drive way. Get a hold of Audi USA....If we have a few more stories like yours they might do something..or my next step is to contact lawfirm that settled the Olson vs VW..class action suit...Audi is being arrogant...

[FulhamFTW]

I thought that may be the case. I may have to buy a warranty, wait a few months, then make the call

That, my friend, is what we call fraud and I highly recommend that you don't do that. Especially since now there is evidence on the internet that you planned to do that. I investigate theft/fraud for a living, and what you are talking about doing is the same as stealing. If you didn't have a warranty, your best bet now is to talk to member JVASILIAUSKAS, as I think he was looking into a class action suit agianst Audi for this type of stuff.

[Fade2Black]

That, my friend, is what we call fraud and I highly recommend that you don't do that. Especially since now there is evidence on the internet that you planned to do that. I investigate theft/fraud for a living, and what you are talking about doing is the same as stealing. If you didn't have a warranty, your best bet now is to talk to member JVASILIAUSKAS, as I think he was looking into a class action suit agianst Audi for this type of stuff.

Check the dates in this thread ; )


Sent from the iPhone

[FulhamFTW]

Check the dates in this thread ; )


Sent from the iPhone

Wow. good call.....total noob moment.....

[AudiA4_20T]

I have a 2004 S4 with a need for new engine due to the same problem. Its currently sitting in drive way. Get a hold of Audi USA....If we have a few more stories like yours they might do something..or my next step is to contact lawfirm that settled the Olson vs VW..class action suit...Audi is being arrogant...

Sent you a PM about buying the car.

[MoDonner]

This looks like an old thread, but I have been a QW member for some time. I am having similar issues (P0300 + P0301-P0304 codes). All the basic troubleshooting (CP's/Plugs/MAF/O2). Looks like an engine pull. But through the searching, it looks like I am not alone in this. 2005 (08/04 build), 106K